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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #1
UNC & Roy
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...er-coached

"Least gifted I've ever coached"
WTH is this and who says something like that?

Bricks- Is this year not eye opening to my position on him not being able to get results unless he has a team full of studs?
01-08-2020 10:39 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Online
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Post: #2
RE: UNC & Roy
Roy recruits the players, then whines about them not being talented enough.

I will say this though, aside from the fake classes scandal that was in place long before he arrived, Roy has never really been rumored to be an unethical recruiter. So he does lose some recruiting battles in the process of having at least a little bit of integrity. Not that that makes him a martyr or anything; the UNC brand sells itself without the need for excessive cheating.
01-08-2020 10:56 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: UNC & Roy
(01-08-2020 10:56 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Roy recruits the players, then whines about them not being talented enough.

I will say this though, aside from the fake classes scandal that was in place long before he arrived, Roy has never really been rumored to be an unethical recruiter. So he does lose some recruiting battles in the process of having at least a little bit of integrity. Not that that makes him a martyr or anything; the UNC brand sells itself without the need for excessive cheating.

He's a great recruiter always has been, and also very good at developing talent. But it's always been about X and O with him, or lackthereof. But Brick's crucifies it as "old, and tired". He's really one of the only UNC fans i know that sticks up for that part of Roy.
01-08-2020 11:27 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Online
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Post: #4
RE: UNC & Roy
(01-08-2020 11:27 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-08-2020 10:56 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Roy recruits the players, then whines about them not being talented enough.

I will say this though, aside from the fake classes scandal that was in place long before he arrived, Roy has never really been rumored to be an unethical recruiter. So he does lose some recruiting battles in the process of having at least a little bit of integrity. Not that that makes him a martyr or anything; the UNC brand sells itself without the need for excessive cheating.

He's a great recruiter always has been, and also very good at developing talent. But it's always been about X and O with him, or lackthereof. But Brick's crucifies it as "old, and tired". He's really one of the only UNC fans i know that sticks up for that part of Roy.

He's probably a little better at X's and O's than you give him credit for. You can't go deep into NCAA Tournaments and win titles without being able to outcoach some people from time to time. There have been UNC teams that weren't quite as talented as some of the other blue bloods but still went to Final 4's.

But yeah, among the boxes a HC needs to check, X's and O's is his weakest point. His biggest strengths are recruiting and building a "culture", in line with what he learned from Dean Smith.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2020 11:32 AM by Seahawk Nation 08.)
01-08-2020 11:32 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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RE: UNC & Roy
Just now seeing this thread, and before offering my perspective I'll simply say that I'll keep it brief. There's really no point going through what we've discussed many times.

Without a doubt this year's team is not good, and to be honest, he's right that they're not talented. I don't like his statement. I think context makes it a little better, but not much; it was a five minute answer to the first questions of the show and his point was that they lacked of defensive effort in the first half and made too many mental mistakes. Past teams had the talent to absorb some of those mistakes, but this team doesn't. Regardless, you can't make that statement without it blowing up. I'm disappointed that he said it, especially with a fragile team.

Regarding the team lacking talent, and him being the one that recruited him, he certainly is responsible. If you listen to Roy, he doesn't run from responsibility for coaching his teams regardless of the outcome (quote above not withstanding). If you look at this years junior and senior classes, you'll see pretty substandard classes which can be attributed to the NCAA investigation. Recruiting took a hit during the investigation. From those two classes, Brandon Robinson was the highest rated recruit in his respective class and he was 60th. No other upperclassman was top 100.

This year impacts his legacy, there's no doubt (I'm being sincere). He's one of the worst coaches with three national championships for certain. Winning with guys like Paige, Brice Johnson, Meeks, Berry, Maye and Cam Johnson should also be considered as part of his legacy and winning with those guys flies in the face of the argument that he has to have superior talent to win. He also inherited a KU program on probation and won there without superior talent. I think this year proves that it is much, much more difficult to win consistently without talent.

Regarding his X and O, I agree that it isn't his strong suit, but he's not the incapable idiot that you portray. He's stubborn and would rather try to force his style and philosophy. Fans and media will jump on his failures during the regular season, but his teams continually improve throughout the season and most often play their best ball in March. The fact that he'll let his guys fail during the regular season is one of the reasons for the improvement IMO.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2020 09:11 PM by bricksnivy.)
01-15-2020 09:08 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: UNC & Roy
(01-15-2020 09:08 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Just now seeing this thread, and before offering my perspective I'll simply say that I'll keep it brief. There's really no point going through what we've discussed many times.

Without a doubt this year's team is not good, and to be honest, he's right that they're not talented. I don't like his statement. I think context makes it a little better, but not much; it was a five minute answer to the first questions of the show and his point was that they lacked of defensive effort in the first half and made too many mental mistakes. Past teams had the talent to absorb some of those mistakes, but this team doesn't. Regardless, you can't make that statement without it blowing up. I'm disappointed that he said it, especially with a fragile team.

Regarding the team lacking talent, and him being the one that recruited him, he certainly is responsible. If you listen to Roy, he doesn't run from responsibility for coaching his teams regardless of the outcome (quote above not withstanding). If you look at this years junior and senior classes, you'll see pretty substandard classes which can be attributed to the NCAA investigation. Recruiting took a hit during the investigation. From those two classes, Brandon Robinson was the highest rated recruit in his respective class and he was 60th. No other upperclassman was top 100.

This year impacts his legacy, there's no doubt (I'm being sincere). He's one of the worst coaches with three national championships for certain. Winning with guys like Paige, Brice Johnson, Meeks, Berry, Maye and Cam Johnson should also be considered as part of his legacy and winning with those guys flies in the face of the argument that he has to have superior talent to win. He also inherited a KU program on probation and won there without superior talent. I think this year proves that it is much, much more difficult to win consistently without talent.

Regarding his X and O, I agree that it isn't his strong suit, but he's not the incapable idiot that you portray. He's stubborn and would rather try to force his style and philosophy. Fans and media will jump on his failures during the regular season, but his teams continually improve throughout the season and most often play their best ball in March. The fact that he'll let his guys fail during the regular season is one of the reasons for the improvement IMO.

I completely agree with you about him making that statement. Where you point out winning with guys like Johnson etc.... I've always said that not only is he great at recruiting, he and his staff have been great at developing talent. Those guys may not have been superior talent when they got there, but he developed them so they were when they won. I think we are a bit closer to agreeing on most of this than either of us may acknowledge.
01-16-2020 08:56 AM
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Seahawk Nation 08 Online
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Post: #7
RE: UNC & Roy
Bricks and hoops, mostly on the same page about Roy Williams?

I have never been more confident than I am right now that peace on Earth is possible.
01-16-2020 09:09 AM
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RE: UNC & Roy
You guys wanna take a crack at fixing the nation's great political divide next?

I know it's a long shot, but if you can get through that, maybe move on to world hunger and the water shortages due to over population.
01-16-2020 09:13 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: UNC & Roy
(01-16-2020 09:13 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  You guys wanna take a crack at fixing the nation's great political divide next?

I know it's a long shot, but if you can get through that, maybe move on to world hunger and the water shortages due to over population.

That's a lost cause. We truly need a "designated Survivor" type of thing to happen to get DC back on track! If you have not watched that show, it's a very good one
01-16-2020 09:23 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: UNC & Roy
(01-16-2020 09:09 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Bricks and hoops, mostly on the same page about Roy Williams?

I have never been more confident than I am right now that peace on Earth is possible.

The Jets having a winning season would be the next step to Hell freezing over!
05-stirthepot
01-16-2020 09:23 AM
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RE: UNC & Roy
(01-16-2020 09:23 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 09:13 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  You guys wanna take a crack at fixing the nation's great political divide next?

I know it's a long shot, but if you can get through that, maybe move on to world hunger and the water shortages due to over population.

That's a lost cause. We truly need a "designated Survivor" type of thing to happen to get DC back on track! If you have not watched that show, it's a very good one

I watched the first season. It wasn't awful, but lost a bit of interest after that.
01-16-2020 11:15 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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RE: UNC & Roy
(01-16-2020 11:15 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 09:23 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-16-2020 09:13 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  You guys wanna take a crack at fixing the nation's great political divide next?

I know it's a long shot, but if you can get through that, maybe move on to world hunger and the water shortages due to over population.

That's a lost cause. We truly need a "designated Survivor" type of thing to happen to get DC back on track! If you have not watched that show, it's a very good one

I watched the first season. It wasn't awful, but lost a bit of interest after that.
Really enjoyed the first season, Season 2 while still solid hasn't been as good as 1
01-16-2020 11:58 AM
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