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How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
It has been 5 and a half years since App and Ga. Southern left for the Sun Belt. App and to a lesser extent Ga. Southern ;-) have thrived in their new homes, while the SoCon seems to be a shell of its former self, at least in football. Ga. Southern was at one point towards the end of its SoCon tenure the number 1 FCS school, and App State was still a regular playoff participant in the early 2010's.

Losing App and Ga. Southern had to feel like a massive loss for the SoCon, and it has played out that way. No SoCon school has made it to the FCS semifinals in the since the two Sun Belt schools departed. It just seems like no one has stepped up in their place the way App, GS, and to some degree back in the day Furman stepped up when Marshall left in 1997. Plus, the schools lost some real rivalries.

Does anyone have a gauge on how Furman, Wofford, WCU, Citadel, etc. fans have responded to the loss of the former SoCon powerhouses? Do they even care? Are they just bitter and still saying App and Ga. Southern's moves to the SBC were mistakes because "they don't compete for national titles anymore?"
01-06-2020 04:04 PM
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HighCountry Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 04:04 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Does anyone have a gauge on how Furman, Wofford, WCU, Citadel, etc. fans have responded to the loss of the former SoCon powerhouses? Do they even care? Are they just bitter and still saying App and Ga. Southern's moves to the SBC were mistakes because "they don't compete for national titles anymore?"

I've looked at AGS a few times since the move and that refrain was still popular.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2020 04:10 PM by HighCountry.)
01-06-2020 04:09 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.
01-06-2020 04:43 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).
01-06-2020 05:16 PM
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 05:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).

Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?
01-06-2020 05:56 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 05:56 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).

Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?

Going how far back, and based on what time period?

I'd put Marshall a slight edge over App for best six year start in FBS. I'd put App number one for best start among teams moving up since 2000. And I'd put Boise number one overall for best tenure in FBS after being in the FCS.

I don't know what timeline parameters I should use to give a ranking, but here are some standouts:

WKU for multiple CUSA titles and a top 25 finish.
FAU for multiple CUSA titles.
Troy for multiple SBC titles.
UConn for going to a BCS bowl (but this one is shaky due to their dismal past decade).
Ga. Southern for making 3 bowl games in five years of eligibility.
UCF, who has been dominant in the AAC. They were once an 1-AA independent.
01-06-2020 06:07 PM
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 04:09 PM)HighCountry Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:04 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Does anyone have a gauge on how Furman, Wofford, WCU, Citadel, etc. fans have responded to the loss of the former SoCon powerhouses? Do they even care? Are they just bitter and still saying App and Ga. Southern's moves to the SBC were mistakes because "they don't compete for national titles anymore?"

I've looked at AGS a few times since the move and that refrain was still popular.

That's funny considering no one in that conference is winning an FCS national championship even if NDSU and JMU were out of the way.
01-06-2020 07:24 PM
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Ewglenn Online
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 06:07 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:56 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).

Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?

Going how far back, and based on what time period?

I'd put Marshall a slight edge over App for best six year start in FBS. I'd put App number one for best start among teams moving up since 2000. And I'd put Boise number one overall for best tenure in FBS after being in the FCS.

I don't know what timeline parameters I should use to give a ranking, but here are some standouts:

WKU for multiple CUSA titles and a top 25 finish.
FAU for multiple CUSA titles.
Troy for multiple SBC titles.
UConn for going to a BCS bowl (but this one is shaky due to their dismal past decade).
Ga. Southern for making 3 bowl games in five years of eligibility.
UCF, who has been dominant in the AAC. They were once an 1-AA independent.

I was mostly talking about the ones that you named in your first post
01-06-2020 07:27 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 07:24 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:09 PM)HighCountry Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:04 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Does anyone have a gauge on how Furman, Wofford, WCU, Citadel, etc. fans have responded to the loss of the former SoCon powerhouses? Do they even care? Are they just bitter and still saying App and Ga. Southern's moves to the SBC were mistakes because "they don't compete for national titles anymore?"

I've looked at AGS a few times since the move and that refrain was still popular.

That's funny considering no one in that conference is winning an FCS national championship even if NDSU and JMU were out of the way.

Furman has really fallen off the map. They were right up there with App and Ga. Southern from the late 90's to the mid 00's and then just withered. They made the national title game in 2001 and the semis in 2005. Now they're lucky to get into the playoffs at all. Wofford, to my knowledge, has not ever made much noise in the playoffs, either, nor has the rest of the remaining SoCon.

Heck, I can't say I blame Elon for running off to CAA when it had the opportunity.
01-06-2020 07:32 PM
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 07:32 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 07:24 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:09 PM)HighCountry Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:04 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Does anyone have a gauge on how Furman, Wofford, WCU, Citadel, etc. fans have responded to the loss of the former SoCon powerhouses? Do they even care? Are they just bitter and still saying App and Ga. Southern's moves to the SBC were mistakes because "they don't compete for national titles anymore?"

I've looked at AGS a few times since the move and that refrain was still popular.

That's funny considering no one in that conference is winning an FCS national championship even if NDSU and JMU were out of the way.

Furman has really fallen off the map. They were right up there with App and Ga. Southern from the late 90's to the mid 00's and then just withered. They made the national title game in 2001 and the semis in 2005. Now they're lucky to get into the playoffs at all. Wofford, to my knowledge, has not ever made much noise in the playoffs, either, nor has the rest of the remaining SoCon.

Heck, I can't say I blame Elon for running off to CAA when it had the opportunity.

Elon had really strong basketball though, something Furman didn't have.

The Socon wanted a private school league though. They didn't want programs like the two of us in there "dirtying" up their conference.

**** em.
01-06-2020 07:44 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 07:27 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:07 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:56 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).

Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?

Going how far back, and based on what time period?

I'd put Marshall a slight edge over App for best six year start in FBS. I'd put App number one for best start among teams moving up since 2000. And I'd put Boise number one overall for best tenure in FBS after being in the FCS.

I don't know what timeline parameters I should use to give a ranking, but here are some standouts:

WKU for multiple CUSA titles and a top 25 finish.
FAU for multiple CUSA titles.
Troy for multiple SBC titles.
UConn for going to a BCS bowl (but this one is shaky due to their dismal past decade).
Ga. Southern for making 3 bowl games in five years of eligibility.
UCF, who has been dominant in the AAC. They were once an 1-AA independent.

I was mostly talking about the ones that you named in your first post
Okay, here is my list for move ups in the 2010's overall, not necessarily this season:

1. App State (41-7 in conference play, 5-0 in bowls, Top 20 season)
2. Ga. Southern (SB title, multiple bowl appearances)
3. Ga. State (multiple bowl appearances)
4. Liberty (1 for 1 in only year of bowl eligibility)
5(tie). ODU (couple of bowl seasons but also some terrible ones)
5(tie). South Alabama (some bowl seasons but also some horrible years)
7. UTSA (some bowl seasons I think lol)
8. Charlotte (they've made a bowll but have otherwise stunk)
9. Texas State (2014 was good; otherwise not so much)
10. Coastal (the returns are early but they're not good)
11. UMass (no winning seasosn since moving up. I still can't believe they beat App in 2017.)
01-06-2020 07:50 PM
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How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
Furman and Wofford have had excellent men’s basketball the last 3-5 years.


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01-06-2020 08:50 PM
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Apps6920 Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
Now that we are here I see how incredibly irrelevant FCS is.
01-06-2020 09:03 PM
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 07:50 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 07:27 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:07 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:56 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).

Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?

Going how far back, and based on what time period?

I'd put Marshall a slight edge over App for best six year start in FBS. I'd put App number one for best start among teams moving up since 2000. And I'd put Boise number one overall for best tenure in FBS after being in the FCS.

I don't know what timeline parameters I should use to give a ranking, but here are some standouts:

WKU for multiple CUSA titles and a top 25 finish.
FAU for multiple CUSA titles.
Troy for multiple SBC titles.
UConn for going to a BCS bowl (but this one is shaky due to their dismal past decade).
Ga. Southern for making 3 bowl games in five years of eligibility.
UCF, who has been dominant in the AAC. They were once an 1-AA independent.

I was mostly talking about the ones that you named in your first post
Okay, here is my list for move ups in the 2010's overall, not necessarily this season:

1. App State (41-7 in conference play, 5-0 in bowls, Top 20 season)
2. Ga. Southern (SB title, multiple bowl appearances)
3. Ga. State (multiple bowl appearances)
4. Liberty (1 for 1 in only year of bowl eligibility)
5(tie). ODU (couple of bowl seasons but also some terrible ones)
5(tie). South Alabama (some bowl seasons but also some horrible years)
7. UTSA (some bowl seasons I think lol)
8. Charlotte (they've made a bowll but have otherwise stunk)
9. Texas State (2014 was good; otherwise not so much)
10. Coastal (the returns are early but they're not good)
11. UMass (no winning seasosn since moving up. I still can't believe they beat App in 2017.)

This definitely isnt biased
01-06-2020 10:17 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 10:17 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 07:50 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 07:27 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 06:07 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:56 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?

Going how far back, and based on what time period?

I'd put Marshall a slight edge over App for best six year start in FBS. I'd put App number one for best start among teams moving up since 2000. And I'd put Boise number one overall for best tenure in FBS after being in the FCS.

I don't know what timeline parameters I should use to give a ranking, but here are some standouts:

WKU for multiple CUSA titles and a top 25 finish.
FAU for multiple CUSA titles.
Troy for multiple SBC titles.
UConn for going to a BCS bowl (but this one is shaky due to their dismal past decade).
Ga. Southern for making 3 bowl games in five years of eligibility.
UCF, who has been dominant in the AAC. They were once an 1-AA independent.

I was mostly talking about the ones that you named in your first post
Okay, here is my list for move ups in the 2010's overall, not necessarily this season:

1. App State (41-7 in conference play, 5-0 in bowls, Top 20 season)
2. Ga. Southern (SB title, multiple bowl appearances)
3. Ga. State (multiple bowl appearances)
4. Liberty (1 for 1 in only year of bowl eligibility)
5(tie). ODU (couple of bowl seasons but also some terrible ones)
5(tie). South Alabama (some bowl seasons but also some horrible years)
7. UTSA (some bowl seasons I think lol)
8. Charlotte (they've made a bowll but have otherwise stunk)
9. Texas State (2014 was good; otherwise not so much)
10. Coastal (the returns are early but they're not good)
11. UMass (no winning seasosn since moving up. I still can't believe they beat App in 2017.)

This definitely isnt biased
I responded to a question. Feel free to rank your own way.
01-06-2020 10:19 PM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
AlwaysSunny uses irony for his tag. The posts are never sunny. They are actually quite cloudy.
01-07-2020 12:09 AM
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 06:07 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:56 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 05:16 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

Yeah, this is an excellent point. I think they were all in the southeast, except for Texas State, UTSA, and UMass. South Alabama, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Coastal, App, Charlotte, ODU, and Liberty all moved up in the 2010's. WKU was just a few years prior.

I'm so glad that App, which was passed over by CUSA in favor of Charlotte, has become the standout of all the programs that moved up (or new from scratch).

Just curious if your thoughts. How would you rank the move ups based on success at the FBS level?

Going how far back, and based on what time period?

I'd put Marshall a slight edge over App for best six year start in FBS. I'd put App number one for best start among teams moving up since 2000. And I'd put Boise number one overall for best tenure in FBS after being in the FCS.

I don't know what timeline parameters I should use to give a ranking, but here are some standouts:

WKU for multiple CUSA titles and a top 25 finish.
FAU for multiple CUSA titles.
Troy for multiple SBC titles.
UConn for going to a BCS bowl (but this one is shaky due to their dismal past decade).
Ga. Southern for making 3 bowl games in five years of eligibility.
UCF, who has been dominant in the AAC. They were once an 1-AA independent.

UConn winning the Big East and making a BCS bowl in 2011 is what pretty much did in the Big East as a P5 conference. They were done as a football conference in 2013. Which is kind weird, they were only an FBS DI football league for 22 years, starting in 1991.
01-07-2020 02:27 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 04:43 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  What has killed the SoCon is the introduction of 10+ FBS programs since 2010 in the southeast. That is ~800 scholarship players not funneling through the FCS ranks and the SE was hit the hardest.

The move to FBS wasn't just a move to get better it was a move of survival.

For us long (old) timers knew 1-AA / FCS knew the model was not sustainable. In the early to mid 80's some of the better programs began leaving. However the watershed moment that sealed the fate of 1-AA was in 1991. The Dayton rule was implemented and that basically dumped a bunch of D-II & D-III schools into 1-AA. The playoff began expanding and the writing was on the wall. A group of App alumni pushed to make the jump in late 90's and we got extremely close. It would take us almost 20 more years to get it done. In Ken Peacock we finally had a chancellor who understood how FBS benefited the entire university and how FCS was a dying entity. In all honesty, some credit goes to UNCC for our move. When they announced FBS it shocked many of the holdouts and got them solidly on board.
01-07-2020 07:39 AM
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Coach Bonez89 Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
The SoCon has actually improved slightly in basketball. Seems they are much more competitive now, but definitely miss those Steph Curry years at Davidson. Football has slipped, no doubt. Though there have still been a couple of squads that should have at least competed with NDSU for titles. But it hasn't happened since GATA and APP left. ETSU was a good add and Mercer was okay too. Adding VMI back was a mistake, and it shows. All in all, it's a decent league, but not one that stands out in football, like it once did. As somebody who loosely follows Chattanooga, I wish they had a vision for what they wanted to do with their athletics. It's a growing school, in a growing city. They could be a benefit to the Sun Belt, though I doubt it happens. Could have to do with the powers that be in Knoxville, but that is above me. I imagine the public schools left in the SoCon are on borrowed time.
01-09-2020 05:07 PM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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RE: How much does the SoCon miss App State and Georgia Southern?
(01-06-2020 09:03 PM)Apps6920 Wrote:  Now that we are here I see how incredibly irrelevant FCS is.

I had never even heard of it until I started attending TXST in 09. Ironic considering D2 and D3 are known entities.
01-09-2020 05:57 PM
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