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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-13-2020 04:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 01:48 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Any and all transfers out of the program are in some capacity the coach's fault.

With 900+ transfers from every team in the land, I just don't buy it always being "the coach's fault." Kids these days have a ton of "advisors" and sometimes, it doesn't matter what the coach says/does.

It is a problem for us, though. Travis Fields would make a huge difference on this team. He is averaging 12 ppg and shooting 44% from 3. Mike Hueitt is averaging 7 ppg in 15 minutes and shooting 36% from 3 for a much better team than ours. They would be #1 and #2 in 3 point percentage on a terrible shooting team if they were still around, and I think we can largely attribute their transfers to JJ's offensive style and handling of players. It has already been said here, but JJ needs to adapt to that climate of 900+ transfers and find a way to keep his young shooters around.

Those transfers have nothing to do with offensive style or handling of players. Neither wanted to buy their time and wait until they were good enough to play.
01-13-2020 04:10 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-13-2020 04:10 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 01:48 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Any and all transfers out of the program are in some capacity the coach's fault.

With 900+ transfers from every team in the land, I just don't buy it always being "the coach's fault." Kids these days have a ton of "advisors" and sometimes, it doesn't matter what the coach says/does.

It is a problem for us, though. Travis Fields would make a huge difference on this team. He is averaging 12 ppg and shooting 44% from 3. Mike Hueitt is averaging 7 ppg in 15 minutes and shooting 36% from 3 for a much better team than ours. They would be #1 and #2 in 3 point percentage on a terrible shooting team if they were still around, and I think we can largely attribute their transfers to JJ's offensive style and handling of players. It has already been said here, but JJ needs to adapt to that climate of 900+ transfers and find a way to keep his young shooters around.

Those transfers have nothing to do with offensive style or handling of players. Neither wanted to buy their time and wait until they were good enough to play.


Ding Ding Ding. Neither of them wanted to sit on the bench playing 3 minutes every 10th game, and neither of them were bad enough that they needed to. JJ needs to get these guys that are the future of his program some consistent minutes, even if it is only one rotation most games. Neither of those guys were going to hurt the team playing 5 minutes a game. Hueitt losing his minutes to Godwin certainly didn't pay dividends.

In this climate, you can't let freshmen rot on the bench, or you are going to lose them. JJ needs to adjust his approach to compensate for the changes in the game. While he is adjusting approaches, it would be nice if he could look to a different approach at the offensive end.
01-13-2020 04:21 PM
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ODUCoach Online
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Post: #43
RE: Men's basketball depth
Hueitt's mother told me straight up that he had no issues with JJ at all. Sure, he hated not playing, but he knew his time would come. She told me that he transferred because of things that were not basketball related. In fact, she told me even after he left, he talked with JJ on a regular basis.
01-13-2020 04:30 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-13-2020 04:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:10 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 04:07 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  
(01-13-2020 01:48 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Any and all transfers out of the program are in some capacity the coach's fault.

With 900+ transfers from every team in the land, I just don't buy it always being "the coach's fault." Kids these days have a ton of "advisors" and sometimes, it doesn't matter what the coach says/does.

It is a problem for us, though. Travis Fields would make a huge difference on this team. He is averaging 12 ppg and shooting 44% from 3. Mike Hueitt is averaging 7 ppg in 15 minutes and shooting 36% from 3 for a much better team than ours. They would be #1 and #2 in 3 point percentage on a terrible shooting team if they were still around, and I think we can largely attribute their transfers to JJ's offensive style and handling of players. It has already been said here, but JJ needs to adapt to that climate of 900+ transfers and find a way to keep his young shooters around.

Those transfers have nothing to do with offensive style or handling of players. Neither wanted to buy their time and wait until they were good enough to play.


Ding Ding Ding. Neither of them wanted to sit on the bench playing 3 minutes every 10th game, and neither of them were bad enough that they needed to. JJ needs to get these guys that are the future of his program some consistent minutes, even if it is only one rotation most games. Neither of those guys were going to hurt the team playing 5 minutes a game. Hueitt losing his minutes to Godwin certainly didn't pay dividends.

In this climate, you can't let freshmen rot on the bench, or you are going to lose them. JJ needs to adjust his approach to compensate for the changes in the game. While he is adjusting approaches, it would be nice if he could look to a different approach at the offensive end.

Travis Fields was terrible his freshman year. He shot 26% including 18% from 3 and was too small to play defense at this level. Im not sure how that is good enough to play. And you assume that playing 5 minutes per game will keep a kid from transferring...certainly didn't keep Godwin from transferring.

It certainly is not as simple as playing kids a few minutes (Reece didn't transfer, for example). And if you play the kids too many minutes and lose, then you get blamed for losing.

JJ certainly has his warts; not playing guys that cant contribute as freshman is not one of them. Some kids are not ready to play as freshman (heck or even sophs). I don't see how force feeding them into the lineup solves anything.
01-13-2020 05:56 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Men's basketball depth
All of this rhetoric about guys not playing as freshmen under Jeff because they weren't good enough is just hard to believe. If ODU was putting 5 superstars on the court I could see it. As pathetic as ODU looked in their last game, Hunter wasn't substituted in before the last minute of the game. It is a hard sell to simply state that he wasn't good enough to play when nearly everyone else was positively awful.

Apparently Fields has grown significantly taller since he is now playing defense "at this level". Actually Radford may well be above us at this point. You just can't make this stuff up.

EDIT: One of ODU's better defensive guards - 5'-9" Duffy Samuels. I would much rather have a smaller point guard than have a smaller center and/or power forward like ODU has today. As long as the point guard can stay in front of his opponent he can force the outside shot. Being too short at center and power forward means that they all too often can't stop the opponent from taking the close in shot. Big difference.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 07:33 AM by ODU BBALL.)
01-13-2020 11:57 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's basketball depth
01-14-2020 07:58 AM
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T-Mac Offline
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RE: Men's basketball depth
I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.
01-14-2020 08:27 AM
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odufansam Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 08:27 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.

JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.
01-14-2020 08:59 AM
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VB Monarch Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:27 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.

JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

Heard BT explain this numerous times. Our redshirt seniors were as good as P5 freshmen. It was a plan that worked very well.
01-14-2020 09:32 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:27 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.

JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

This isn't true. We very easily could have redshirted Reece, Hunter, Hueitt, etc. if they were willing to do so. Jones talks to them and asks them if they are willing to redshirt and they typically say no. Green, OTOH, was willing to redshirt. Reece, Hunter, Fields, Hueitt, among others, would have greatly benefited from a redshirt season.
01-14-2020 09:42 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 07:58 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Good timing for this thread.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/web/status/...3835857925

Hahaha. Definitely not taking chemistry advice from that guy, whose team had complete meltdowns on multiple occasions last year.
01-14-2020 09:59 AM
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Gilesfan Offline
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RE: Men's basketball depth
So your takeaway from that was chemistry?
01-14-2020 11:33 AM
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odufansam Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 09:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:27 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.

JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

This isn't true. We very easily could have redshirted Reece, Hunter, Hueitt, etc. if they were willing to do so. Jones talks to them and asks them if they are willing to redshirt and they typically say no. Green, OTOH, was willing to redshirt. Reece, Hunter, Fields, Hueitt, among others, would have greatly benefited from a redshirt season.

At that point the conversation is happening too late. While recruiting, the coach should lay out their 5 year plan. A redshirt year to refine skills, bulk up, and earn an advanced degree. If they aren't interested, move on.
01-14-2020 01:27 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 01:27 PM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:27 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.

JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

This isn't true. We very easily could have redshirted Reece, Hunter, Hueitt, etc. if they were willing to do so. Jones talks to them and asks them if they are willing to redshirt and they typically say no. Green, OTOH, was willing to redshirt. Reece, Hunter, Fields, Hueitt, among others, would have greatly benefited from a redshirt season.

At that point the conversation is happening too late. While recruiting, the coach should lay out their 5 year plan. A redshirt year to refine skills, bulk up, and earn an advanced degree. If they aren't interested, move on.

You think recruiting is bad now? It would be bottom 100 with this tactic.
01-14-2020 01:38 PM
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mac Offline
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RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 01:38 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 01:27 PM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:27 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I love the redshirt model. However, with the transfer epidemic, it's a tough sell. The right coach can make it work. I think so far we've seen JJ isn't great at selling a redshirt year to kids.

JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

This isn't true. We very easily could have redshirted Reece, Hunter, Hueitt, etc. if they were willing to do so. Jones talks to them and asks them if they are willing to redshirt and they typically say no. Green, OTOH, was willing to redshirt. Reece, Hunter, Fields, Hueitt, among others, would have greatly benefited from a redshirt season.

At that point the conversation is happening too late. While recruiting, the coach should lay out their 5 year plan. A redshirt year to refine skills, bulk up, and earn an advanced degree. If they aren't interested, move on.

You think recruiting is bad now? It would be bottom 100 with this tactic.


Yeah, Blaine was good at that. BUT, that was 10 years ago and longer. Times have changed. Would love to have several red-shirts, just don't think that can happen as much now.
01-14-2020 02:08 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 02:08 PM)mac Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 01:38 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 01:27 PM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

This isn't true. We very easily could have redshirted Reece, Hunter, Hueitt, etc. if they were willing to do so. Jones talks to them and asks them if they are willing to redshirt and they typically say no. Green, OTOH, was willing to redshirt. Reece, Hunter, Fields, Hueitt, among others, would have greatly benefited from a redshirt season.

At that point the conversation is happening too late. While recruiting, the coach should lay out their 5 year plan. A redshirt year to refine skills, bulk up, and earn an advanced degree. If they aren't interested, move on.

You think recruiting is bad now? It would be bottom 100 with this tactic.


Yeah, Blaine was good at that. BUT, that was 10 years ago and longer. Times have changed. Would love to have several red-shirts, just don't think that can happen as much now.

There are quite a few schools that still use the redshirt effectively, but it does require recruiting a different type of kid that is open to that path.
01-14-2020 02:13 PM
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ODU_NYG Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-14-2020 02:08 PM)mac Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 01:38 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 01:27 PM)odufansam Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 09:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(01-14-2020 08:59 AM)odufansam Wrote:  JJ has yet to have a season where he hasn't had an immediate need to play freshmen. Step 1 is to recruit and retain well enough that you don't require freshmen to play. This is the major advantage that non-Power 5 schools should have. Smaller schools should have seasons where they can start multiple redshirt seniors. The maturity of those older guys is a key factor in beating the Power 5 teams that play mostly kids straight out of high school.

This isn't true. We very easily could have redshirted Reece, Hunter, Hueitt, etc. if they were willing to do so. Jones talks to them and asks them if they are willing to redshirt and they typically say no. Green, OTOH, was willing to redshirt. Reece, Hunter, Fields, Hueitt, among others, would have greatly benefited from a redshirt season.

At that point the conversation is happening too late. While recruiting, the coach should lay out their 5 year plan. A redshirt year to refine skills, bulk up, and earn an advanced degree. If they aren't interested, move on.

You think recruiting is bad now? It would be bottom 100 with this tactic.


Yeah, Blaine was good at that. BUT, that was 10 years ago and longer. Times have changed. Would love to have several red-shirts, just don't think that can happen as much now.

Right. Guys that would agree to it would be guys who are recruited to play for UMES type schools and we'd be complaining about how we don't go after higher rated guys. So it would really be exchanging one argument for another.
01-14-2020 02:17 PM
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T-Mac Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Men's basketball depth
BT recruited lower level guys with very high ceilings and developed them during their redshirt year. JJ recruits higher ranked guys, and loses half his recruits to transfers because they don't come in and dominate immediately. While I'm not mad at the level of success JJ has had over his tenure, the middle years under BT were the best in school history.
01-14-2020 02:23 PM
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odufansam Offline
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RE: Men's basketball depth
We may take a step back in recruiting rankings, but eventually build up a team that can regularly beat powerhouses like William & Mary.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2020 03:57 PM by odufansam.)
01-14-2020 03:56 PM
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RE: Men's basketball depth
(01-13-2020 11:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  All of this rhetoric about guys not playing as freshmen under Jeff because they weren't good enough is just hard to believe. If ODU was putting 5 superstars on the court I could see it. As pathetic as ODU looked in their last game, Hunter wasn't substituted in before the last minute of the game. It is a hard sell to simply state that he wasn't good enough to play when nearly everyone else was positively awful.

Apparently Fields has grown significantly taller since he is now playing defense "at this level". Actually Radford may well be above us at this point. You just can't make this stuff up.

EDIT: One of ODU's better defensive guards - 5'-9" Duffy Samuels. I would much rather have a smaller point guard than have a smaller center and/or power forward like ODU has today. As long as the point guard can stay in front of his opponent he can force the outside shot. Being too short at center and power forward means that they all too often can't stop the opponent from taking the close in shot. Big difference.
Just for accuracy, Hunter played a few minutes midway through the second half.
01-14-2020 04:08 PM
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