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Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
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EvanJ Offline
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Post: #1
Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
https://www.flohoops.com/articles/663329...-the-2010s is by writer/blogger/Hofstra fan Jerry Beach. He gave your Player of the Decade to Massenat. Massenat led you in points with 1,646, but Lee averaged more and had better other statistics. Lee scored 1,538 for you and 2,016 total.
01-01-2020 01:33 PM
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J.B. Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
I'm good with this one. Lee screwed over Bruiser and the Dragons with his "business" decision to move to a power conference. He had every opportunity to stay at Drexel and had he stayed, his number would be retired and he'd be honored as one of Drexel's all time greats. I'm glad the honor was given to a 4 year player, even though Lee technically did play 4 years at Drexel.
01-01-2020 01:37 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
Can't go wrong with Frantz, Samme or Damion.
01-02-2020 07:25 AM
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jcohen42 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-01-2020 01:37 PM)J.B. Wrote:  I'm good with this one. Lee screwed over Bruiser and the Dragons with his "business" decision to move to a power conference. He had every opportunity to stay at Drexel and had he stayed, his number would be retired and he'd be honored as one of Drexel's all time greats. I'm glad the honor was given to a 4 year player, even though Lee technically did play 4 years at Drexel.

Couldn't disagree more. Drexel and Bruiser screwed over themselves by not being able to sustain success. I cannot fault Damion one bit for making a good professional decision for himself, and while he didn't get to play in the tournament, it's paying off as he's carved out a nice career for himself. He should be honored as one of Drexel's all-time greats, because he is one. No argument against Frantz being named, as any of the three of Damion, Frantz, or Samme would have been worthy.

That said, jersey retirements should be only for the absolute best of the best, and without a tournament appearance or being drafted in the NBA as a Dragon, it's hard to argue for any of those three. Great athletes and great ambassadors for Drexel, but none of them reached the same mythical heights as Malik or Michael.
01-02-2020 10:37 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-02-2020 10:37 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  That said, jersey retirements should be only for the absolute best of the best, and without a tournament appearance or being drafted in the NBA as a Dragon, it's hard to argue for any of those three. Great athletes and great ambassadors for Drexel, but none of them reached the same mythical heights as Malik or Michael.

This brings up a potentially interesting discussion. Had the 2012 team not been snubbed and went dancing, what are your thoughts? Go ahead and assume they danced and lost their first game. Also assume Lee still transferred to UofL.

Do any jersies get raised? All get raised? etc.
01-02-2020 11:14 AM
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jcohen42 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-02-2020 11:14 AM)dan10 Wrote:  
(01-02-2020 10:37 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  That said, jersey retirements should be only for the absolute best of the best, and without a tournament appearance or being drafted in the NBA as a Dragon, it's hard to argue for any of those three. Great athletes and great ambassadors for Drexel, but none of them reached the same mythical heights as Malik or Michael.

This brings up a potentially interesting discussion. Had the 2012 team not been snubbed and went dancing, what are your thoughts? Go ahead and assume they danced and lost their first game. Also assume Lee still transferred to UofL.

Do any jersies get raised? All get raised? etc.

It's tough. Samme as the leader of that team would gain the most from a tourney berth, but without a win, it would depend on how he performed in the losing effort. Would it get him an NBA cup of coffee? Not sure he quite had the cumulative and rate stats to reach the level of Rose/Anderson. It's tougher to say regarding Frantz and Damion because they were underclassmen, but it could have changed their overall careers and Drexel's outlook as a whole. It's tough to see Frantz reaching the cumulative stats he would have needed, outside of assists, but Damion would have had a shot.

That said, unless a player is truly transcendent, I don't know that they get their jersey retired after transferring. Don't know enough about other programs where that may have happened.
01-02-2020 11:21 AM
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J.B. Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
jcohen42,
We are welcome to respectfully disagree. But I don't think there's any argument that Damion Lee gets his Jersey retired if he played his final year as a Dragon, even if he doesn't get Drexel to the NCAA Tournament. I also think that he'd be in the exact same position that he is now if he didn't leave early. Plenty of NBA players have come out of the CAA. I don't think that Drexel was keeping him from getting a chance to go pro even if his advisers may told him otherwise.

The administration his pretty much chosen to ignore Lee from a marketing standpoint due to his early departure. Knowing how the athletics marketing department works, had he stayed for his graduate year, Drexel would be all over the fact that one of their own made it to the NBA.
01-02-2020 11:29 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
If you are talking about leader boards, does Fouch crack consideration? In career points Fouch is 5th, Frantz 6th, Lee 10th

Easy to argue for all the injuries Fouch dealt with he still had a phenomenal career. He is even 4th on games played list.

It is hard to judge those players because they played with each other, which actually hurts them. The fact they all hit Drexel record books while all playing together makes it that more impressive and also shows our lack of positive history. My thoughts are they all go down among the best to ever play here, and none of them get a jersey in the rafters. Even if they danced I think they fall short. Damion had the best chance had he stayed. The best way to get your jersey retired is to be a standout for 3 or 4 years while having nothing else around you. Having good or great teammates hurts you since the ball must get shared. Looking through our record books just stings that much more that we had so many highly successful players here at the same time and still couldn't get it done.
01-02-2020 11:43 AM
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jcohen42 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-02-2020 11:29 AM)J.B. Wrote:  jcohen42,
We are welcome to respectfully disagree. But I don't think there's any argument that Damion Lee gets his Jersey retired if he played his final year as a Dragon, even if he doesn't get Drexel to the NCAA Tournament. I also think that he'd be in the exact same position that he is now if he didn't leave early. Plenty of NBA players have come out of the CAA. I don't think that Drexel was keeping him from getting a chance to go pro even if his advisers may told him otherwise.

The administration his pretty much chosen to ignore Lee from a marketing standpoint due to his early departure. Knowing how the athletics marketing department works, had he stayed for his graduate year, Drexel would be all over the fact that one of their own made it to the NBA.

I guess I should amend my statement to that I don't think he should have gotten his jersey retired unless Drexel made the tourney or he did well enough to get drafted. But I do not see eye to eye with the athletics department on many things, so it's very possible they would have acted differently.

I do think him staying would have hurt his career. It would have been tougher for him to get a significant look by NBA organizations if he came from a no-name midmajor like Drexel. When you're on the bubble like that, it makes a difference. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is, and it's why transfers are as much of the landscape as they are.
01-02-2020 02:25 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
My comments had nothing to do with that. The great majority of our fans agreed with his decision and do not fault him one bit. He absolutely did what he needed to for his own professional career.

My comments were more about what dictates getting your jersey or number retired in your eyes? That crew had an extraordinary amount of talent and they are all filtered through our record books in various ways. None were singularly dominant as they had other highly talented teammates. I dont think the lack of NCAA tournament plays that much of a factor. I also think by playing with each other they actually all hurt their own cases. All will stay high on the lists of best players Drexel has ever had.
01-02-2020 02:39 PM
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jcohen42 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-02-2020 02:39 PM)dan10 Wrote:  My comments had nothing to do with that. The great majority of our fans agreed with his decision and do not fault him one bit. He absolutely did what he needed to for his own professional career.

My comments were more about what dictates getting your jersey or number retired in your eyes? That crew had an extraordinary amount of talent and they are all filtered through our record books in various ways. None were singularly dominant as they had other highly talented teammates. I dont think the lack of NCAA tournament plays that much of a factor. I also think by playing with each other they actually all hurt their own cases. All will stay high on the lists of best players Drexel has ever had.

Unsure who you are responding to here, but I completely agree with what you said in post #8.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2020 04:09 PM by jcohen42.)
01-02-2020 04:08 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
I was responding to your post right above mine. I was saying him transferring or not has nothing to do with whether his jersey should get retired. Also was saying that not sure I agree with making the tournament needs to be a key factor. Their impact was clear regardless of tournament appearance.

That is why I was asking more theoretically what factors for you determine whether a person should have their jersey retired or not?
01-03-2020 07:56 AM
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jcohen42 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-03-2020 07:56 AM)dan10 Wrote:  I was responding to your post right above mine. I was saying him transferring or not has nothing to do with whether his jersey should get retired. Also was saying that not sure I agree with making the tournament needs to be a key factor. Their impact was clear regardless of tournament appearance.

That is why I was asking more theoretically what factors for you determine whether a person should have their jersey retired or not?
In order:

1. Cumulative stats
2. NCAA Tournament appearances
3. Overall program impact (partly incorporated in 1 and 2)

I honestly think (strongly) that NCAA tournament appearances should be weighted. That is the ultimate goal for a program like Drexel. If you don't make it, you better have the best stats in program history.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2020 08:29 AM by jcohen42.)
01-03-2020 08:28 AM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
That's fair and reasonable. To me for a program like ours, that is the pinnacle. So I would not call it required. I think that can push someone over the edge but as a stand alone, to me, is not required. I think they all had stats worthy. Damion likely was a shoe in if he returned because he would be at the very top of several categories, but he will still go down as one of the best ever here. I think all are very close but all fall short, mostly because they stole stats from each other in their careers. Timing hurt them. Damion benefited the most as he spent the most time without the others.
01-03-2020 08:51 AM
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DrachenFire Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
Can't believe there are those who find Damion at fault for leaving a program that was seemingly producing more injuries than wins. He was on pace to break the all time scoring record prior to breaking his hand in his final year here and is the only player currently in the NBA that played home games at the DAC. He's easily our player of the decade.

In terms of retired numbers, we only have four (two each for men's and women's). They've all won at least one conference player of the year award and three of the four have helped lead their teams to an NCAA Tournament appearance to go along with their gaudy stats. Those seem like good determining factors to me.
01-03-2020 03:12 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
Seems like only 1 finds him at fault. I wouldn't say easily but he must be discussed highly. Plenty a case can be made for Frantz or Samme too. I have a coin flip between Frantz and Damion for that recognition.

I changed the discussion to jersey raising since that is more of an interesting debate or discussion than is player of the decade.

Do you think any of Samme, Fouch, Frantz or Lee should have their jersey raised despite the lack of dancing?
01-03-2020 03:22 PM
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DrachenFire Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
They didn't dance or win conference player of the year, so I'd say no to retiring their numbers. Bigger schools like UNC and Nova have kind of a two-tier system. They retire/honor jerseys and retire numbers. With jerseys the numbers stay in circulation but it still allows the honoring of past greats by having their jersey in the rafters. I'd be fine with implementing something like that for those guys and others.
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2020 03:39 PM by DrachenFire.)
01-03-2020 03:39 PM
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dan10 Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
Absolutely. I think in basketball its important since there are not that many allowable numbers.

Also shame on me. I thought Damion won CAA POY when he was near the top of the ncaa in scoring. Forgot he lost by a vote to Marcus Thornton.
01-03-2020 05:01 PM
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Timer Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
(01-03-2020 05:01 PM)dan10 Wrote:  Absolutely. I think in basketball its important since there are not that many allowable numbers.

37 to be exact!
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2020 01:47 PM by Timer.)
01-03-2020 11:01 PM
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MedicSBK Offline
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RE: Who Was Your Player of the Decade?
Yeah, as much as I like Damion, he doesn't deserve player of the decade. It was 100% on Bruiser and Drexel for not recruiting in such a way that continued their winning ways. Lee had to put himself in a better environment where his body was better cared for due to his injury history and his exposure level was higher. He got both of those as Louisville. Its one of the RARE times that a transfer out of the CAA benefited a player. I still think that his ties to Drexel helped him get an NBA job though.

I'd be comfortable with Frantz as player of the decade though. He performed for four years.

As for retiring numbers, frankly, in my opinion, there is one number missing: #3. And no, not Troy Harper, but John Rankin. And in my opinion, its well past time for the Alumni to start pushing that issue.
01-04-2020 09:34 AM
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