(12-20-2019 08:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a Libertarian living in a heavily republican state and the most republican county in the US, so it has been very easy for me to vote libertarian as a protest vote, and I do pretty consistently. My support for presidential/VP candidates has been as follows:

1972 John Hospers/Tonie Nathan (got all of 3,674 votes nationally, but Nathan was the first woman to get an electoral vote)
1976 Roger MacBride/David Bergland
1980 Reagan/Bush, (IMO Jimmy Carter simply had to go, only time I didn't vote libertarian, so I've never voted for a Koch brother)
1984 David Bergland/James Lewis
1988 my good friend Ron Paul/Andre Marrou
1992 Andre Marrou/Nancy Lord
1996 Harry Browne/Jo Jorgensen (never liked Bob Dole, couldn't stand Al Gore, a crossover ticket of Bill Clinton and Jack Kemp might have tempted me if possible)
2000 Harry Browne/Art Oliver
2004 Michael Badnarik/Richard Campagna
2008 Bob Barr/Wayne Allyn Root (lesser of evils, would have prefered Root at the top to the ticket with a true libertarian running mate)
2012 Gary Johnson/James Gray
2016 Gary Johnson/Bill Weld (I liked Bill Weld a lot 30 years ago, but don't any more)

I've heard rumors of a possible Justin Amash/Tulsi Gabbard ticket for 2020. I don't agree with Amash on impeachment and I don't agree with Gabbard on a number of issues. But I don't agree with any democrat on any issue So I will be in the, "Trump if I must, Libertarian if I can," mode.

Harry Brown brought me on board with Libertarianism. No one before or since could relay its ideals as well as Harry. Bob Barr drove me away from the party and it now seems filled with nut jobs or those that are really not even Libertarians.

(12-29-2019 01:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-20-2019 08:40 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I am a Libertarian living in a heavily republican state and the most republican county in the US, so it has been very easy for me to vote libertarian as a protest vote, and I do pretty consistently. My support for presidential/VP candidates has been as follows:

1972 John Hospers/Tonie Nathan (got all of 3,674 votes nationally, but Nathan was the first woman to get an electoral vote)
1976 Roger MacBride/David Bergland
1980 Reagan/Bush, (IMO Jimmy Carter simply had to go, only time I didn't vote libertarian, so I've never voted for a Koch brother)
1984 David Bergland/James Lewis
1988 my good friend Ron Paul/Andre Marrou
1992 Andre Marrou/Nancy Lord
1996 Harry Browne/Jo Jorgensen (never liked Bob Dole, couldn't stand Al Gore, a crossover ticket of Bill Clinton and Jack Kemp might have tempted me if possible)
2000 Harry Browne/Art Oliver
2004 Michael Badnarik/Richard Campagna
2008 Bob Barr/Wayne Allyn Root (lesser of evils, would have prefered Root at the top to the ticket with a true libertarian running mate)
2012 Gary Johnson/James Gray
2016 Gary Johnson/Bill Weld (I liked Bill Weld a lot 30 years ago, but don't any more)

I've heard rumors of a possible Justin Amash/Tulsi Gabbard ticket for 2020. I don't agree with Amash on impeachment and I don't agree with Gabbard on a number of issues. But I don't agree with any democrat on any issue So I will be in the, "Trump if I must, Libertarian if I can," mode.

Harry Brown brought me on board with Libertarianism. No one before or since could relay its ideals as well as Harry. Bob Barr drove me away from the party and it now seems filled with nut jobs or those that are really not even Libertarians.

Most movements end up being co-opted by the extremist elements within.

(12-29-2019 11:40 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  I used to be a conservative independent. I’ve voted for candidates from both of the big parties and even a Liberaltarian or two. No more. I’m firmly a Republican now until they give me a reason not to.

The Liberaltarians lost me with their support of wide open borders, wide open stance on drugs, and their desire to destroy our military. The dims are absolute evil at this point so I’ve cast my last vote for anyone from their party.

Open borders, like abortion, is a place where the libertarians don't have a united position. The most popular libertarian of my lifetime - Ron Paul - was decidedly against open borders. But Ron also had a pretty good take on the wall I agree with: one day such a wall might be used to keep you in.

Drugs is another place where it varies. I think I can say with confidence that the overwhelming majority of libertarians are ok with legal recreational consumption of cannabis, alcohol, tobacco, "magic mushrooms", DMT (your body already makes it and it's in your own lawn in abundance), and mayyyybe LSD. Everything beyond that support falls off. As for me personally I think all of those other than LSD should be fine recreationally so long as you take responsibility for your actions (it will never be legal to drive drunk). Given the whole flashback thing my personal preference is that LSD be medical only. Not a good idea to have a psychedelic flashback a few years later out of nowhere. But if you have SERIOUS PTSD issues LSD microdosing is one of the few proven ways to make headway on those problems.

I think there's consensus among the libertarians that we shouldn't be the police of the world. That's not the same as dismantling the military. What that looks like in practice is ... okay South Korea if we're going to hold that DMZ for you let's talk about how much that cost the US military and ergo how much you're going to be billed annually for the privilege. I'm fine posting a Tomahawk missle and a Daisy Cutter somewhere to defend Canada, UK, Australia, and New Zealand. All of these countries at least contribute in some form to the mission. Everybody else has to pay their way and hope that they pay enough that when it really matters we'll be willing to see Americans die to fulfill that mission. The political will to suck up dead bodies for military adventures abroad is gone on a broad bipartisan basis. I think the Dubya/Cheney neocon hawks find themselves just as lonely in DC these days as free traders and people who want a balanced budget.