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Retroview1955 Offline
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Post: #1
Is BW A Scapegoat?
According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
12-16-2019 09:15 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

He's probably both. I think when our admin made the decision, based on the information available at the time, it was the right move. The CAA was crumbling (but has since re-stablized), We were offered a spot in a multi-bid conference that was as well-regarded at the time as the A-10/AAC. We were offered a spot in a conference with ECU as a natural rival, plus "names" like Tulsa and Tulane. We were offered a spot in a conference that paid $1.2 million dollars a year. We were offered a spot in a conference with every football game on actual television. We were thrown what looked to be a lifeline when VCU and GMU abandoned the CAA. With all of that, I would have made the decision to move too. The problem is, within one year, ALL of that disappeared. No well-regarded conference, no ECU rivalry, no $1.2 million, no TV. So in retrospect, it was a bad move for ODU. Maybe one Wood should have seen coming. But I don't really blame the admin for the decision as it looked good at the time and hind sight is 20/20.
12-16-2019 09:48 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2019 11:56 AM by ODUalum78.)
12-16-2019 10:26 AM
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Can't Tame the Lion Offline
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RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
I could make this a really long reply, but will just simply say that moving to CUSA was the right move.
12-16-2019 10:38 AM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
I agree. It's hard to think that ODU would be looking any better playing in that smaller league. We just have to grow to be a relevant player at this level. And just because the league is tough doesn't mean we should run from it.

Go win it and kill the excuses. Every team in CUSA has to travel and play tough games. Same with any league that is worth a ****.
12-16-2019 10:42 AM
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Can't Tame the Lion Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even Individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling, and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest of is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, with with a less than average DII defense, bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA.

BW was no scapegoat.
The statement about not busing teams to games and not playing teams close to Norfolk is a little ridiculous, when you actually look at our schedules... VCU, JMU, W&M, GMU, UR, UVA, ECU, Liberty, NSU, Hampton, NC State, UNC, Wake, VT, St Joe, etc. are all still on our schedules.
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2019 10:44 AM by Can't Tame the Lion.)
12-16-2019 10:42 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

ODUalum78:
Quote:The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.


Let me just add that many if not most were frustrated by the the lack of defense from 2010 on.
There were cracks in the areas of fundamentals in defense and offense from very early on.

There were more than a few of us here, especially on PM, that were very much concerned about the long term state of football, certainly by 2011, even as we were scoring wildly and making the playoffs.

The Rahne hire is a home run if for no other reason than to clean house. The Blackwell/Stinespring caliber hires, which btw I am sure were not Wilder's, should have come the day we moved up.
Another issue that has not been discussed is Wilder's relationships with local HS coaches. I can only speak to a very few that I know about factually, but those few relationships were not good at all.
From all indications, Rahne is addressing that immediately and aggressively.

Thank Coach Wilder for what he did, but don't lament his loss, nor make excuses, nor deify him.
Right now the future of ODU football looks brighter than it has in years
04-cheers
12-16-2019 12:52 PM
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JJMonarch Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

Well said! I might add that $5 million goal is a five year goal, $1 million per year budget increase. And yes, $ 2 million was raised practically overnight mostly from a few donors.
12-16-2019 01:00 PM
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Retroview1955 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

ODUalum78:
Quote:The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.


Let me just add that many if not most were frustrated by the the lack of defense from 2010 on.
There were cracks in the areas of fundamentals in defense and offense from very early on.

There were more than a few of us here, especially on PM, that were very much concerned about the long term state of football, certainly by 2011, even as we were scoring wildly and making the playoffs.

The Rahne hire is a home run if for no other reason than to clean house. The Blackwell/Stinespring caliber hires, which btw I am sure were not Wilder's, should have come the day we moved up.
Another issue that has not been discussed is Wilder's relationships with local HS coaches. I can only speak to a very few that I know about factually, but those few relationships were not good at all.
From all indications, Rahne is addressing that immediately and aggressively.

Thank Coach Wilder for what he did, but don't lament his loss, nor make excuses, nor deify him.
Right now the future of ODU football looks brighter than it has in years
04-cheers
My coworker pointed this article out to me. He was saying ODU will never get good recruits because of where the school is located and all recruits want the away from home college town experience. He went to Notre Dame lol...

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12-16-2019 01:40 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
Let's be clear here. That was a letter to the editor. Some ******* with too much time on their hands. Unlike all of of us of course.
12-16-2019 02:07 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 01:40 PM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

ODUalum78:
Quote:The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.


Let me just add that many if not most were frustrated by the the lack of defense from 2010 on.
There were cracks in the areas of fundamentals in defense and offense from very early on.

There were more than a few of us here, especially on PM, that were very much concerned about the long term state of football, certainly by 2011, even as we were scoring wildly and making the playoffs.

The Rahne hire is a home run if for no other reason than to clean house. The Blackwell/Stinespring caliber hires, which btw I am sure were not Wilder's, should have come the day we moved up.
Another issue that has not been discussed is Wilder's relationships with local HS coaches. I can only speak to a very few that I know about factually, but those few relationships were not good at all.
From all indications, Rahne is addressing that immediately and aggressively.

Thank Coach Wilder for what he did, but don't lament his loss, nor make excuses, nor deify him.
Right now the future of ODU football looks brighter than it has in years
04-cheers
My coworker pointed this article out to me. He was saying ODU will never get good recruits because of where the school is located and all recruits want the away from home college town experience. He went to Notre Dame lol...

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Two thoughts on your co-workers post: 1. Not every kid wants to go way, some like the idea of playing nearby where friends and family can see you easily. Plus, If you play in Newport News or Landstown, ODU is practically an hour away if you are in rush hour. 2. There are plenty of good recruits who don't live in Hampton Roads, who would like to play "away from home" at a good school, in a new stadium in a vibrant area near the beach.
12-16-2019 02:30 PM
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ODUMONARCHZ1 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 02:30 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 01:40 PM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 12:52 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

ODUalum78:
Quote:The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.


Let me just add that many if not most were frustrated by the the lack of defense from 2010 on.
There were cracks in the areas of fundamentals in defense and offense from very early on.

There were more than a few of us here, especially on PM, that were very much concerned about the long term state of football, certainly by 2011, even as we were scoring wildly and making the playoffs.

The Rahne hire is a home run if for no other reason than to clean house. The Blackwell/Stinespring caliber hires, which btw I am sure were not Wilder's, should have come the day we moved up.
Another issue that has not been discussed is Wilder's relationships with local HS coaches. I can only speak to a very few that I know about factually, but those few relationships were not good at all.
From all indications, Rahne is addressing that immediately and aggressively.

Thank Coach Wilder for what he did, but don't lament his loss, nor make excuses, nor deify him.
Right now the future of ODU football looks brighter than it has in years
04-cheers
My coworker pointed this article out to me. He was saying ODU will never get good recruits because of where the school is located and all recruits want the away from home college town experience. He went to Notre Dame lol...

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Two thoughts on your co-workers post: 1. Not every kid wants to go way, some like the idea of playing nearby where friends and family can see you easily. Plus, If you play in Newport News or Landstown, ODU is practically an hour away if you are in rush hour. 2. There are plenty of good recruits who don't live in Hampton Roads, who would like to play "away from home" at a good school, in a new stadium in a vibrant area near the beach.
Yeah I went to ODU to get away from Richmond.

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12-16-2019 02:32 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

Agree with everything here, with one exception: I think ODU administration should have reasonably presumed that ECU would be out the door sooner than later. They'd been pushing for a better conference alignment almost their entire time in CUSA (they wanted to be in the Big East of Miami, Virginia Tech and West Virginia, and ended up in the one with most of the CUSA schools they were trying to leave behind in the first place). By the time ODU signed on to CUSA, ECU's departure was already in the works, I think. And since the dominoes were still falling, even if they didn't get invited when they did, they would have when they grabbed Tulsa.

But again, everything else is spot on. Much of the pro-CAA/FCS crowd (here and IRL) are trying to extrapolate a very limited sample size (two very good seasons) into an immovable standard. Maybe it would have happened. Or as you point out, maybe they fall into the second division of the CAA. And if you think people here have been angry at what happened to ODU football: Imagine an ODU team finishing out its 3-8 season with a home loss to Maine before a generously estimated crowd of 4,000 while JMU, having taken ODU's CUSA spot, is hosting Marshall in a jam-packed Bridgeforth. And the scheduling! No only do you say goodbye to ACC teams coming to Norfolk, but you know how people here get pissy whenever ODU buys a MEAC team? Think about playing them home-and-home.

This is the only way staying in the CAA would have been viable:

1. VCU and Mason don't leave. For that matter, neither does Richmond, so the point of divergence would have been in the early 2000s.
2. A stronger CAA gets Davidson as well as Charleston. Maybe GW and Charlotte as well, though that's not as likely.
3. Hofstra and Northeastern drop football earlier and never get invited, which probably means Drexel doesn't either, making Delaware the northernmost all-sports member.
4. The NCAA allows either allows a) FBS callups to start as independents or b) the creation of football-only FBS conferences, making an Eastern league more feasible (ODU, JMU, Delaware, Charlotte, Georgia State, Liberty, Appalachian State, Georgia Southern). Alternately, ODU takes Temple's place in the MAC as a football affiliate.

That wasn't going to happen. So given the choice between moving everything to CUSA or staying in the CAA and giving up on FBS football for a long time, I think ODU made the risky yet prudent choice. Now it's a matter of actually winning the damned games.
12-16-2019 02:40 PM
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Grommet Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
Y'all are some verbose mfers.

And this is all in reaction to...a letter to the editor? Are we dissecting YouTube comments tomorrow?
12-16-2019 02:58 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
Pretty sure I heard we had an offer to the MAC at the same time as well. We chose CUSA for all the reasons mentioned. Would you guys prefer the MAC to CAA too?
12-16-2019 03:02 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 03:02 PM)monarx Wrote:  Pretty sure I heard we had an offer to the MAC at the same time as well. We chose CUSA for all the reasons mentioned. Would you guys prefer the MAC to CAA too?

Yes indeed. We joined MAC, in wrestling in 2013. 03-shhhh

Otherwise we have had no offer in any revenue sport, either with full or partial membership. It was CUSA or bust.
04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2019 03:15 PM by ODUalum78.)
12-16-2019 03:14 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 03:02 PM)monarx Wrote:  Pretty sure I heard we had an offer to the MAC at the same time as well. We chose CUSA for all the reasons mentioned. Would you guys prefer the MAC to CAA too?

Minium's takeout piece in the Pilot about ODU's move to CUSA included a passage that they reached out to the MAC (as well as the then-Big East, A10 and, God help us, the ACC) and were told thanks but no thanks.

Quote:[Wood Selig] had met with Mid-American Conference Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher while in New Orleans, then had a meeting on April 12 in Newport News with the A-10's Bernadette McGlade. Both expressed high regard for ODU, but had little interest in adding the school.

Plus there was talk of a move-up moratorium, so if ODU didn't take the CUSA apple, there was legitimate FOMO.
12-16-2019 03:20 PM
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elon77 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
What happened to the staff discussion? Was it moved?
12-16-2019 05:29 PM
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Grommet Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
No, just buried under bull****.
12-16-2019 05:38 PM
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elon77 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 05:38 PM)Grommet Wrote:  No, just buried under bull****.
Seems to be a little of that on here from time to time.
12-16-2019 06:48 PM
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