Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Is BW A Scapegoat?
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
EverRespect Offline
Free Kaplony
*

Posts: 28,118
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 929
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #41
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.

If you just want to see your team play ACC teams and lose, why not just become a Georgia Tech or Boston College fan and you can see that every week. I just don't understand this thinking. If you want to see the ACC, there are plenty of opportunities every weekend.
12-17-2019 04:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
odu09 Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,400
Joined: Apr 2016
Reputation: 317
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Norfolk
Post: #42
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.

If you just want to see your team play ACC teams and lose, why not just become a Georgia Tech or Boston College fan and you can see that every week. I just don't understand this thinking. If you want to see the ACC, there are plenty of opportunities every weekend.

This suggestion is about the equivalent of suggesting you find a new family if you don't like the one you have.
12-17-2019 04:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Cyniclone Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,137
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 365
I Root For: ODU and VCU
Location:
Post: #43
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:10 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Consistent bowl game success also helps by making us more desireable to AAC.

It doesn't hurt but I also think on-field success isn't nearly as important to conferences and their members (represented by school presidents, not ADs) as they are to fans and coaches/players. Tulsa and Tulane did not get into the AAC because of their bowl records. They got in because they have good academics (especially Tulane) and that sort of thing is really important to presidents.

ODU's biggest selling points remain no matter what their football and basketball do in any given season: A big market with little direct competition; institutional congruity with the urban schools like Houston, Cincinnati, and Memphis; and an underserved spot in the league footprint, fitting in nicely with ECU, Temple and Navy football. So long as they're investing money in human capital and brick-and-mortar stuff, they'll continue to be a viable alternative.
12-17-2019 04:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Cyniclone Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,137
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 365
I Root For: ODU and VCU
Location:
Post: #44
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.

If you just want to see your team play ACC teams and lose, why not just become a Georgia Tech or Boston College fan and you can see that every week. I just don't understand this thinking. If you want to see the ACC, there are plenty of opportunities every weekend.

You don't see the appeal of major college football programs playing your team in your stadium? Seriously? I guess we shouldn't care if ODU basketball gets those games because you can be a fan of an ACC team instead.
12-17-2019 04:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,818
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 74
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #45
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.

If you just want to see your team play ACC teams and lose, why not just become a Georgia Tech or Boston College fan and you can see that every week. I just don't understand this thinking. If you want to see the ACC, there are plenty of opportunities every weekend.

There are plenty of opportunities to watch the CAA too if thats your thing....just not many on tv so you have to drive to Richmond....or Elon.
12-17-2019 04:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EverRespect Offline
Free Kaplony
*

Posts: 28,118
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 929
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #46
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:10 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Consistent bowl game success also helps by making us more desireable to AAC.

So the notion that our top 30 basketball program (at the time) was in talks with the A10, where our former peers landed, is something that just can't be believed... but is we just keep crapping money down the toilet, we'll get that call from the AAC?

03-lmfao

Best you are going to get is shedding Texas and ending up some hodgepodge football schools, still a loooong drive/flight away with crap basketball like App St, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, and the F_Us for a so called "regional conference" that still nobody around here gives a crap about. Most of this board wouldn't even want to be in a conference with JMU or Liberty due to some weird inferiority complex.
12-17-2019 04:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,818
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 74
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #47
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:44 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:10 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Consistent bowl game success also helps by making us more desireable to AAC.

So the notion that our top 30 basketball program (at the time) was in talks with the A10, where our former peers landed, is something that just can't be believed... but is we just keep crapping money down the toilet, we'll get that call from the AAC?

03-lmfao

Best you are going to get is shedding Texas and ending up some hodgepodge football schools, still a loooong drive/flight away with crap basketball like App St, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, and the F_Us for a so called "regional conference" that still nobody around here gives a crap about. Most of this board wouldn't even want to be in a conference with JMU or Liberty due to some weird inferiority complex.

There has never been an indication the A10 was going to extend an invitation.

You are making the assumption that "nobody" around here gives a crap about App State, GS, and Coastal......who in there right mind would rather be in a conference with Elon over App State?

JMU isn't coming up to FBS anytime soon.
12-17-2019 04:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Cyniclone Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,137
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 365
I Root For: ODU and VCU
Location:
Post: #48
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:44 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:10 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Consistent bowl game success also helps by making us more desireable to AAC.

So the notion that our top 30 basketball program (at the time) was in talks with the A10, where our former peers landed, is something that just can't be believed... but is we just keep crapping money down the toilet, we'll get that call from the AAC?

03-lmfao

Best you are going to get is shedding Texas and ending up some hodgepodge football schools, still a loooong drive/flight away with crap basketball like App St, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, and the F_Us for a so called "regional conference" that still nobody around here gives a crap about. Most of this board wouldn't even want to be in a conference with JMU or Liberty due to some weird inferiority complex.

I think most people here would be happy to be with JMU again in all sports, be it CUSA or a mythical East Coast conference. Liberty is more divisive but there's definitely people here who'd be OK with it.

So putting aside football, you think people would really rather be in a conference with Elon, Drexel and Towson? JMU and W&M are on the schedule regularly, we don't need a conference affiliation for that. Nobody else moves the needle, except maybe Charleston, and that's because of their tradition and recent success, not because they're in the CAA.

The A-10 has 14 schools so they're no more likely to expand or even backfill than CUSA, also at 14 schools.
12-17-2019 05:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ODUDon Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 478
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 3
I Root For: ODU
Location: Vienna, VA
Post: #49
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-16-2019 10:38 AM)Cant Tame the Lion Wrote:  I could make this a really long reply, but will just simply say that moving to CUSA was the right move.

Totally agree! I’m getting really tired of the calls to retreat.
12-17-2019 05:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Grommet Offline
Shamma Lamma Ding Dong
*

Posts: 2,384
Joined: Aug 2016
Reputation: 92
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #50
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 07:15 AM)Grommet Wrote:  As this discussion isn't germaine to RR staff, can we move it to another thread? Or leave it here and move the staff? This is the same ole ****. Maybe make a Groundhog's Day thread and put that in.

Thnak you04-cheers
12-17-2019 07:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NC ODUFan Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 372
Joined: May 2016
Reputation: 2
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #51
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 05:40 PM)ODUDon Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:38 AM)Cant Tame the Lion Wrote:  I could make this a really long reply, but will just simply say that moving to CUSA was the right move.

Totally agree! I’m getting really tired of the calls to retreat.

Me too.
12-17-2019 07:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
12thmonarch Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,176
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 83
I Root For: ODU
Location: Blue World
Post: #52
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:44 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:10 PM)VB Monarch Wrote:  Consistent bowl game success also helps by making us more desireable to AAC.

So the notion that our top 30 basketball program (at the time) was in talks with the A10, where our former peers landed, is something that just can't be believed... but is we just keep crapping money down the toilet, we'll get that call from the AAC?

03-lmfao

Best you are going to get is shedding Texas and ending up some hodgepodge football schools, still a loooong drive/flight away with crap basketball like App St, Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, and the F_Us for a so called "regional conference" that still nobody around here gives a crap about. Most of this board wouldn't even want to be in a conference with JMU or Liberty due to some weird inferiority complex.

I am okay with JMU but **** that crap hole called Liberty. I don't understand this idea of sticking with CAA and playing in FCS. To grow we have to broaden our horizons and if we aren't moving forward we are moving back.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 08:59 PM by 12thmonarch.)
12-17-2019 08:58 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
monarx Online
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,208
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 59
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #53
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:38 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 04:34 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.

If you just want to see your team play ACC teams and lose, why not just become a Georgia Tech or Boston College fan and you can see that every week. I just don't understand this thinking. If you want to see the ACC, there are plenty of opportunities every weekend.

This suggestion is about the equivalent of suggesting you find a new family if you don't like the one you have.

If we aren't in bowl games, we aren't having winning seasons. I do not want to play a bunch of ACC teams only to always have losing seasons. Winning seasons, conference championships and bowl games are just as, and likely more important to me than playing a P5 at home.
12-17-2019 10:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DaBigBlue Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,103
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 57
I Root For: ODU
Location: In the Old Dominion
Post: #54
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
What is the chance we get a P5 in a bowl game...next to zero. If we did I would travel a 1,000 miles
OK we get two P5s to play us on our home field and one on the road.
We over schedules this year, what you going to do, but enjoy it. We're rebuilding anyway.
12-17-2019 10:37 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,966
Joined: Nov 2007
Reputation: 78
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

Great post, very well articulated!
12-17-2019 11:09 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,818
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 74
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #56
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.

So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

I really don't believe this and I think it downplays how good the team was. ODU was beating UMASS by 2 touchdowns when DeMarco went down. It has also been said by people in the program that Craig Oh (or whatever his name is) was a very capable backup QB. Furthermore, DeMarco would only have missed a couple games before coming back because he was healthy enough to play but lost his job to Heinicke. We know DeMarco was good enough to beat some of those teams; Craig would have made it competitive.
12-18-2019 11:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AimHigh Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,387
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 46
I Root For: ODU
Location: Great Bridge
Post: #57
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 11:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.

So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

I really don't believe this and I think it downplays how good the team was. ODU was beating UMASS by 2 touchdowns when DeMarco went down. It has also been said by people in the program that Craig Oh (or whatever his name is) was a very capable backup QB. Furthermore, DeMarco would only have missed a couple games before coming back because he was healthy enough to play but lost his job to Heinicke. We know DeMarco was good enough to beat some of those teams; Craig would have made it competitive.

Ya mean Nate Ong? He was hurt with a shoulder injury when DeMarco went down
12-18-2019 11:44 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gilesfan Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,818
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 74
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #58
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 11:44 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 11:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.

So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

I really don't believe this and I think it downplays how good the team was. ODU was beating UMASS by 2 touchdowns when DeMarco went down. It has also been said by people in the program that Craig Oh (or whatever his name is) was a very capable backup QB. Furthermore, DeMarco would only have missed a couple games before coming back because he was healthy enough to play but lost his job to Heinicke. We know DeMarco was good enough to beat some of those teams; Craig would have made it competitive.

Ya mean Nate Ong? He was hurt with a shoulder injury when DeMarco went down

Yeah, him LOL. I believe he was healthy later in the year.
12-18-2019 11:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Monarchblue Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,263
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 69
I Root For: ODU
Location:
Post: #59
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
CUSA is a tough pill to swallow for me, and I honestly would probably enjoy basketball and football more RIGHT NOW if we were still in the CAA, but the rub is that you have to move up to FBS to make the next move, which is where I ultimately want the athletic dept to go. So, while I hate everything about CUSA, especially for basketball which is my preferred sport by a lot, I grit my teeth and accept it because it is a necessary step on the journey to where I want to go.
12-18-2019 01:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ODUalum78 Offline
Overseer of the Unwashed Masses
*

Posts: 7,307
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 84
I Root For: ODU
Location: Chesterfield, Va

Lion's Den Poster of the Year
Post: #60
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-18-2019 11:44 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(12-18-2019 11:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.

So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.

I really don't believe this and I think it downplays how good the team was. ODU was beating UMASS by 2 touchdowns when DeMarco went down. It has also been said by people in the program that Craig Oh (or whatever his name is) was a very capable backup QB. Furthermore, DeMarco would only have missed a couple games before coming back because he was healthy enough to play but lost his job to Heinicke. We know DeMarco was good enough to beat some of those teams; Craig would have made it competitive.

Ya mean Nate Ong? He was hurt with a shoulder injury when DeMarco went down

We would have to had to go to FR Tyler Clark

I don't believe we beat UMass with Tyler Clark
I don't believe we beat URI with Tyler Clark
I am not even sure about 'Nova with Clark
Even if Ong is back, (not sure about the timeline) we do NOT win vs JMU.
I remember the UR game well. It was a classic TH beat down. I don't believe we win that with Ong, and certainly not with Clark.
We do NOT win at W&M w/o Henicke
We probably do win vs NSU

So even best case, winning URI (but I don't think so) and 'Nova (questionable) we don't get ranked, and at a BEST case 6-6 we don't make the playoffs.

Even with a healthy DeMarco, we don't win vs JMU, UR, or @W&M, and we may not have won vs UMASS or even URI.
(This post was last modified: 12-18-2019 02:06 PM by ODUalum78.)
12-18-2019 02:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.