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Is BW A Scapegoat?
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Post: #21
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 09:48 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



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He's probably both. I think when our admin made the decision, based on the information available at the time, it was the right move. The CAA was crumbling (but has since re-stablized), We were offered a spot in a multi-bid conference that was as well-regarded at the time as the A-10/AAC. We were offered a spot in a conference with ECU as a natural rival, plus "names" like Tulsa and Tulane. We were offered a spot in a conference that paid $1.2 million dollars a year. We were offered a spot in a conference with every football game on actual television. We were thrown what looked to be a lifeline when VCU and GMU abandoned the CAA. With all of that, I would have made the decision to move too. The problem is, within one year, ALL of that disappeared. No well-regarded conference, no ECU rivalry, no $1.2 million, no TV. So in retrospect, it was a bad move for ODU. Maybe one Wood should have seen coming. But I don't really blame the admin for the decision as it looked good at the time and hind sight is 20/20.
Agree with all of this.

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12-16-2019 10:27 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.
We were more than considered for the A10, we were in discussions.... then Judy called. It was a 100% football decision. And George Mason did not go with VCU. Recheck the timeline.

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12-16-2019 10:33 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
(12-17-2019 01:40 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:33 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.
We were more than considered for the A10, we were in discussions.... then Judy called. It was a 100% football decision. And George Mason did not go with VCU. Recheck the timeline.

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No.
VCU had already announced it was leaving (2012), and the rumor of GMU leaving (2013) was all but confirmed when Selig met with GMU officials prior to our commitment to CUSA.
As I said before, VCU and GMU were courted by the A 10 due to their Final Four credentials.
There has never been any evidence that we were ever considered by the A 10, none.

Quote:He had met with Mid-American Conference Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher while in New Orleans, then had a meeting on April 12 in Newport News with the A-10's Bernadette McGlade. Both expressed high regard for ODU, but had little interest in adding the school.

That afternoon, Selig met with Teague and George Mason Athletic Director Tom O'Connor at a Richmond hotel for five hours. He came away more convinced that those schools were leaving the CAA.

He called both the Atlantic Coast Conference and Big East but was politely rebuffed.

NCAA officials had confided to Broderick that if ODU had in mind a move to the FBS, it might need to do it now; the NCAA was considering a moratorium on schools moving up.

Adding to the time crunch: Conference USA, likely ODU's best option, was in the 11th hour of expansion discussions.

"At that point," Selig said. "we were under the gun."

https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...c0480.html

Wood did a terrific job of manipulating the record so that it looked like he had only one choice, no doubt about that. Harry's article references an 11th hour desperation call with the A10. Our discussions/informal invitation with the A10 were over a year prior to the article, not at the 11th hour. While my neighbor/friend/source knows nothing of this 11th hour conversation Harry references (and he likely would know if it is true) it would not surprise me at all if after ODU snubbing the A10 previously, the A10 getting Butler to join in our place, and ODU going 5-25, that they would have told us to F ourselves. Harry's implication that we were dealing in a position of relative weakness (at least from a basketball standpoint) as of April 2013 is likely true, but that wasn't always the case.

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12-17-2019 06:59 AM
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Grommet Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
As this discussion isn't germaine to RR staff, can we move it to another thread? Or leave it here and move the staff? This is the same ole ****. Maybe make a Groundhog's Day thread and put that in.
12-17-2019 07:15 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Rahnes Staff Discussion
Amen!!!
12-17-2019 07:22 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 06:59 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 01:40 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:33 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 10:26 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 09:15 AM)Retroview1955 Wrote:  According to this guy, Rahne can't help us either and thinks our football program will go nowhere, while completely nullifying the success other programs have since they move up and upgraded it's coaches.

You can read it here, but I'll still quote:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/lett...story.html

Is he a pessimist or does he have a point?

Costly move for ODU

"I graduated from Old Dominion in 1973. I don’t know ODU football coach Bobby Wilder personally, but was amazed at how quickly he was able to start with nothing and build a team capable of winning the Colonial Athletic Association championship in only three years.

What I don’t understand is after waiting 69 years to bring back football, why wasn’t a winning program, and a packed stadium, enough? Why the rush to play teams so far out of ODU’s league? Why schedule games against three Atlantic Coast Conference teams in 2020? And who was responsible for the decision to move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision so quickly? Was it due to the overzealous and spoiled fan base who thought Wilder could bring in a Taylor Heinicke whenever needed? That might be possible at Alabama and Clemson, but not ODU.

Moving to Conference USA has left ODU with no natural rivalries and instead of busing teams to Williamsburg, Richmond and Harrisonburg, must instead pay a considerable expense to fly its football, basketball and baseball teams to Alabama, Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi.

With a new stadium to pay for, and increased travel cost, ODU has been reduced to selling games to Liberty University — $1 million last year and $800,000 next year.

Wilder has been forced to be the scapegoat for the bad decisions of others."

Joe Simons, Chesapeake



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The author is addressing two separate issues, success on the field and operational costs, and then erroneously trying to combine those two as a reason for BW's demise. Even individually his reasoning is flawed.

Let's address the conference move first.
VCU and GMU had already bolted the CAA, so our two natural MBB rivals were gone. "Claimed secret knowledge" aside, there is absolutely NO evidence we were ever considered for A10 MBB, none. GMU and VCU both had Final 4 credentials and those were the primary factors in their considerations. Saying we could have gone to the A10 is tantamount to those JMU posters saying they could have gone to the AAC whenever they wanted but their admin didn't want to.
So we are left in a very watered down CAA basketball league.
When we joined CUSA, we did indeed have a natural rival in ECU. No one could have foreseen the changes in CUSA that occurred AFTER we joined.
The television guarantees were attractive, and aside from 3 games, JMU, W&M, and UR, I for one certainly prefer to play UVA, VT, NC State to Stony Brook, Albany, Campell, and Elon.
It might surprise you to know that the two ODU playoff games with GaSo were in the top 5 of all time of FCS television ratings, and that all but the lowest of the bowl game[s] generate higher television ratings than even the FCS NATC. GaSo has moved up, and quite frankly the watered down FCS has recently become the exclusive JMU/NDSU club.
As for the financial burdens, no one could have predicted the impact of the after-the-fact Kirk Cox legislation. Guess what, the stadium was falling apart,and did not meet a number of codes, and as such would have had to be replaced anyway.
Even so we have been largely successful with fundraising, most recently raising over 2 million in a few days, of a 5 million goal set for the year.
The bottom line is that at the time, the move was the correct decision, and quite frankly, is still the right one IMHO.

None of the above helped make BW a scapegoat, and in fact as I understand it, he was one of those leading the charge when the opportunity came to move up.
BW did a great job starting the program and made us an almost instant success with brilliant scheduling and the happenstance of Hofstra eliminating football.
The rest is the tale of Taylor Henicke, who fell into our lap mostly because of his dad.
In 2011, without TH, we lose the the UMass game. We likely go on to lose 5 more that we otherwise won, going 5-7 regular season in 2011 (instead of 10-2) with no playoff, affecting future recruiting including the future receivers.
The recruiting domino effect would have been huge.
So, without one generational QB, we have a less than average DII defense, no recruiting bump from playoffs, and bizarre personnel moves like the ones surrounding Bill Dee, we likely stay mired in the middle of the pack of the CAA, if not the bottom.

BW was no scapegoat, and the decisions were the correct ones.
We were more than considered for the A10, we were in discussions.... then Judy called. It was a 100% football decision. And George Mason did not go with VCU. Recheck the timeline.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

No.
VCU had already announced it was leaving (2012), and the rumor of GMU leaving (2013) was all but confirmed when Selig met with GMU officials prior to our commitment to CUSA.
As I said before, VCU and GMU were courted by the A 10 due to their Final Four credentials.
There has never been any evidence that we were ever considered by the A 10, none.

Quote:He had met with Mid-American Conference Commissioner Jon Steinbrecher while in New Orleans, then had a meeting on April 12 in Newport News with the A-10's Bernadette McGlade. Both expressed high regard for ODU, but had little interest in adding the school.

That afternoon, Selig met with Teague and George Mason Athletic Director Tom O'Connor at a Richmond hotel for five hours. He came away more convinced that those schools were leaving the CAA.

He called both the Atlantic Coast Conference and Big East but was politely rebuffed.

NCAA officials had confided to Broderick that if ODU had in mind a move to the FBS, it might need to do it now; the NCAA was considering a moratorium on schools moving up.

Adding to the time crunch: Conference USA, likely ODU's best option, was in the 11th hour of expansion discussions.

"At that point," Selig said. "we were under the gun."

https://www.pilotonline.com/sports/colle...c0480.html

Wood did a terrific job of manipulating the record so that it looked like he had only one choice, no doubt about that. Harry's article references an 11th hour desperation call with the A10. Our discussions/informal invitation with the A10 were over a year prior to the article, not at the 11th hour. While my neighbor/friend/source knows nothing of this 11th hour conversation Harry references (and he likely would know if it is true) it would not surprise me at all if after ODU snubbing the A10 previously, the A10 getting Butler to join in our place, and ODU going 5-25, that they would have told us to F ourselves. Harry's implication that we were dealing in a position of relative weakness (at least from a basketball standpoint) as of April 2013 is likely true, but that wasn't always the case.

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That claim will require evidence.

We know the VCU timeline independent of WS
We know the GMU timeline independent of WS
We know the CUSA timeline independent of WS
We know that the Fredricksburg meeting took place and the general subject matter has been independently confirmed.
We know that there was indeed a proposed moratorium.
We even know that Judy never called as you have alleged because in fact Britt Banowsky was CUSA Commissioner at the time.

There was ample "smoke" leading up to the VCU and GMU moves for at least a year prior to each. There was never even a whisp of a rumor concerning ODU to the A 10.

Butler didn't join until 2012 so it was contemporary (to VCU) to the general timeline, and like GMU and VCU had Final Four credentials.
Are you saying that a multi bid basketball-centric conference wanted us, but "oh darn, we will have to settle for Butler instead"?
That really strains credibility.
(This post was last modified: 12-17-2019 09:50 AM by ODUalum78.)
12-17-2019 08:55 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 08:53 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Factual. Once ODU added and resourced football, the A10 had little interest. But if repeat it enough over a number of years, you can convince yourself that it was true.
12-17-2019 09:10 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
Lol @ Judy called when Banowsky was commissioner--boards man.

Personally, I do have a theory that never came out though. I think when Wood rallied all of us donors in a hurry to talk about possibly joining CUSA due to a possible moratorium, that there was a FOMO--particularly if JMU were to get the call before us. He never said that--and I want to make that clear--but I definitely think there was a fear that we'd be stuck in the CAA possibly without them. They were already well into their stadium expansion plans. My hypothesis only.

ODU football was very well regarded to get the invite so early in its existence and made the right decision. Need to rise up and compete for the title now.
12-17-2019 09:17 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
Conspiracy theories aside, I think we made the right call, and I'm a basketball-first kind of guy. Yes the current situation sucks, but I think people are really underestimating how much it would suck to be left behind in the current form of CAA.

Would I like to be A10 basketball and CAA all other sports? Sure? But the decision made AT THE TIME was the correct one. Easy to play Monday Morning Athletic Director.

We simply bought the 3 row SUV before we had kids, knowing we'd probably have kids one day. It may seem like a high cost right now but at least we have room to grow.

Also, based on the coaching salaries released, it sounds like our high end donors are still willing to support this program with deep pockets, who knows if that would be the case if we were still little boy football.
12-17-2019 10:00 AM
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FearTheLion Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
I highly doubt it would. Which is yet another reason we moved--money talks--faceless keyboards criticize on the following Monday.
12-17-2019 11:14 AM
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VB Monarch Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
It was absolutely the right call. We just have to take advantage of it by winning. Something we have not done consistently enough to see any major benefits.
12-17-2019 11:17 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 11:17 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  It was absolutely the right call. We just have to take advantage of it by winning. Something we have not done consistently enough to see any major benefits.

But even when you win in G5, you lose. #20 App St plays the CUSA second place UAB in a bowl I can’t remember the name of. I’d rather play 3 games on espn for a national championship in FCS and be in a multi bud basketball league.
12-17-2019 11:56 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 11:56 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:17 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  It was absolutely the right call. We just have to take advantage of it by winning. Something we have not done consistently enough to see any major benefits.

But even when you win in G5, you lose. #20 App St plays the CUSA second place UAB in a bowl I can’t remember the name of. I’d rather play 3 games on espn for a national championship in FCS and be in a multi bud basketball league.

1. Those FCS games usually get lower ratings than even the lowest-rung bowls. ODU's Bahamas Bowl win in 2016 got 1.37 million viewers, while only the FCS title game and the North Dakota State-South Dakota State semifinal that was the only game on TV got more viewers. Last year's FCS title game got around 1 million.
2. Meanwhile, ODU football has hosted or will host Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, N.C. State, Wake Forest and East Carolina. None of those teams ever come to Norfolk if ODU is in FCS. Campbell will, though.
3. If ODU stays in the CAA, and that's the far likelier outcome than the A-10, they're still in a single-bid league, just without the pesky money and exposure that comes with FBS membership. I mean, unless you really like FloSports and want that to be your primary viewing outlet for conference games.
12-17-2019 12:15 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 12:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:56 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:17 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  It was absolutely the right call. We just have to take advantage of it by winning. Something we have not done consistently enough to see any major benefits.

But even when you win in G5, you lose. #20 App St plays the CUSA second place UAB in a bowl I can’t remember the name of. I’d rather play 3 games on espn for a national championship in FCS and be in a multi bud basketball league.

1. Those FCS games usually get lower ratings than even the lowest-rung bowls. ODU's Bahamas Bowl win in 2016 got 1.37 million viewers, while only the FCS title game and the North Dakota State-South Dakota State semifinal that was the only game on TV got more viewers. Last year's FCS title game got around 1 million.
2. Meanwhile, ODU football has hosted or will host Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, N.C. State, Wake Forest and East Carolina. None of those teams ever come to Norfolk if ODU is in FCS. Campbell will, though.
3. If ODU stays in the CAA, and that's the far likelier outcome than the A-10, they're still in a single-bid league, just without the pesky money and exposure that comes with FBS membership. I mean, unless you really like FloSports and want that to be your primary viewing outlet for conference games.

1. Right... so once in 6 years we played a meaningless afternoon game in the middle of the work week that may or may not have had better ratings. That is a pretty inefficient use of resources.

2. Ok, we are hosting some big names. I'll give you that point. We signed them when we were at our peak. Let's hope they continue signing.

3. I don't agree with the premise so no sense in taking down the strawman... but, even if you take the worst case scenario at face value, we are competing for a single bid against 10 teams, most of which are relatively close, and have a reasonable option of attending conference championships as opposed to competing for a single bid among 14 far flung teams and you have to take out a 2nd mortgage to see the conference championships.

Bottom line is what we got out of football and the current financial paradigm wasn't worth the sacrifice. Hoping this new coach can right the ship and make the football program respectable, but even if he does, I still think this will continue to be a money pit. If he doesn't, we are taking in more water than we can handle and we are likely back in the CAA anyway... but this time with a devalued basketball program.
12-17-2019 12:40 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
What are the ratings in other games compared to our ratings back then? It's nowhere even close. Hell, we couldn't even watch most of the road games.

This decision is about as no brainer of a decision as there can be. I guess that doesn't stop the armchair QBs with their ridiculousness.
12-17-2019 01:04 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 12:40 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 12:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:56 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 11:17 AM)VB Monarch Wrote:  It was absolutely the right call. We just have to take advantage of it by winning. Something we have not done consistently enough to see any major benefits.

But even when you win in G5, you lose. #20 App St plays the CUSA second place UAB in a bowl I can’t remember the name of. I’d rather play 3 games on espn for a national championship in FCS and be in a multi bud basketball league.

1. Those FCS games usually get lower ratings than even the lowest-rung bowls. ODU's Bahamas Bowl win in 2016 got 1.37 million viewers, while only the FCS title game and the North Dakota State-South Dakota State semifinal that was the only game on TV got more viewers. Last year's FCS title game got around 1 million.
2. Meanwhile, ODU football has hosted or will host Virginia Tech, Virginia, North Carolina, N.C. State, Wake Forest and East Carolina. None of those teams ever come to Norfolk if ODU is in FCS. Campbell will, though.
3. If ODU stays in the CAA, and that's the far likelier outcome than the A-10, they're still in a single-bid league, just without the pesky money and exposure that comes with FBS membership. I mean, unless you really like FloSports and want that to be your primary viewing outlet for conference games.

1. Right... so once in 6 years we played a meaningless afternoon game in the middle of the work week that may or may not have had better ratings. That is a pretty inefficient use of resources.

2. Ok, we are hosting some big names. I'll give you that point. We signed them when we were at our peak. Let's hope they continue signing.

3. I don't agree with the premise so no sense in taking down the strawman... but, even if you take the worst case scenario at face value, we are competing for a single bid against 10 teams, most of which are relatively close, and have a reasonable option of attending conference championships as opposed to competing for a single bid among 14 far flung teams and you have to take out a 2nd mortgage to see the conference championships.

Bottom line is what we got out of football and the current financial paradigm wasn't worth the sacrifice. Hoping this new coach can right the ship and make the football program respectable, but even if he does, I still think this will continue to be a money pit. If he doesn't, we are taking in more water than we can handle and we are likely back in the CAA anyway... but this time with a devalued basketball program.

1. You need just a .500 record to get a "meaningless bowl game" which has been proven over and over that it gets more exposure and money for the program than FCS playoffs. Do I need to state the obvious... how much more difficult it is to get in the FCS playoffs than going .500 in FBS??

2. Our performance is not an issue with these big programs, they are here for recruiting. If they beat us when we're 1-11 or 11-1 it's the same difference to them and their bowl outlook. It's not like basketball.

3. Okay... so if basketball is a wash by being in a one bid league, then all the money and exposure that comes with FBS is still worth it. If you aren't attending away games to the schedule our AD put together with Richmond, VCU, W&M, JMU, then you aren't going to the away games in CAA either. Is having the basketball tournament closer, in theory, that much more important than all the money that comes with FBS? I don't think so. Either you refuse to understand or are looking the other way when people tell you how much bigger of a deal it is to be FBS rather than FCS. And this is coming from me who much prefers basketball.
12-17-2019 01:42 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.
12-17-2019 03:44 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.


Bowls serve a number of positive purposes.

Bowls are rewards for the players.
Bowls provide a means for the coaches to increase recruiting visibility.
Bowls are a way to extend practice time beyond what is otherwise authorized by the NCAA.
Bowls may increase visibility for the University as a whole, potentially enhancing academic outreach and recruiting
Even if minimally, bowl games provide extra income.

Usually, only the FCS national Championship game can compete with even the lowest bowl game as far as Television ratings.

I, for one, am completely in agreement with our move to FBS.

04-cheers
12-17-2019 04:07 PM
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VB Monarch Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
Consistent bowl game success also helps by making us more desireable to AAC.
12-17-2019 04:10 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Is BW A Scapegoat?
(12-17-2019 04:07 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 03:44 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Plus, again, the bowl game isn't really the pot of gold for most G5 programs (unless you get the NY6 spot). It's the prominent games you play in-season, particularly the home ones. I'd like to see ODU in bowls but given my choice, I'd rather they never go to a bowl again and continue to get ACC schools to regularly come to Norfolk than make the FCS playoffs every season and get a home schedule with nobody more interesting than W&M/Richmond/JMU until they move up.


Bowls serve a number of positive purposes.

Bowls are rewards for the players.
Bowls provide a means for the coaches to increase recruiting visibility.
Bowls are a way to extend practice time beyond what is otherwise authorized by the NCAA.
Bowls may increase visibility for the University as a whole, potentially enhancing academic outreach and recruiting
Even if minimally, bowl games provide extra income.

Usually, only the FCS national Championship game can compete with even the lowest bowl game as far as Television ratings.

I, for one, am completely in agreement with our move to FBS.

04-cheers

Agreed with all of that; my point was more to emphasize how important having big-time home opponents are, to the extent that given a choice between no bowls but lots of good home games or lots of FCS playoff success but no FBS home games (much less ACC games), I'd take no bowls 14 times out of 2.
12-17-2019 04:32 PM
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