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D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(12-22-2019 05:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Actually when they go bankrupt it tends to be because they borrowed to bolster their roster to avoid relegation and ended up relegated and can't float their debt with the revenue from the lower tier league and severance from the higher tier.

If they didn't have pro/rel they would have no need for any sort of cap. They are free marketers with no draft and no salary cap. The debt cap only exists to keep the politicians out because they get interested when a hundred year old club gets liquidated in bankruptcy.

Caps are the norm. Formula 1 use to be the ultimate no limits sport. And then a bunch of Texans showed up with a snowmobile engine in the back of a racecar that was doing nothing but sucking the entire chassis down onto the road like a street sweeper. They crushed everybody. That company was Chaparral Cars in the US. Formula 1 got to where the cars were so fast and so powerful that a crash at speed was usually fatal. The very best in the sport ... people like Aryton Senna ... were also perversely the most likely to die playing it. Mercedes and Ferrari and McLaren were proudly spending 7 and 8 figures to shave off a second or two a lap. Formula 1 came around to see that killing off its name brand players was a bad idea and that the largest checkbook wins will ultimately turn away more fans than it will win. NCAAFB will either learn from the Formula 1s of the world or it will destroy itself trying to wring the last 20% of money like a sponge for the top 12-15 programs.

They're going the other way. I bet Alabama has more "analysts" than the NFL teams.
Any type of specific salary cap is unconstitutional. Now they may be legally able to cap total coach's salaries. I just don't see that as remotely likely.
12-23-2019 10:22 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(12-23-2019 10:22 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 05:10 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(12-22-2019 02:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Actually when they go bankrupt it tends to be because they borrowed to bolster their roster to avoid relegation and ended up relegated and can't float their debt with the revenue from the lower tier league and severance from the higher tier.

If they didn't have pro/rel they would have no need for any sort of cap. They are free marketers with no draft and no salary cap. The debt cap only exists to keep the politicians out because they get interested when a hundred year old club gets liquidated in bankruptcy.

Caps are the norm. Formula 1 use to be the ultimate no limits sport. And then a bunch of Texans showed up with a snowmobile engine in the back of a racecar that was doing nothing but sucking the entire chassis down onto the road like a street sweeper. They crushed everybody. That company was Chaparral Cars in the US. Formula 1 got to where the cars were so fast and so powerful that a crash at speed was usually fatal. The very best in the sport ... people like Aryton Senna ... were also perversely the most likely to die playing it. Mercedes and Ferrari and McLaren were proudly spending 7 and 8 figures to shave off a second or two a lap. Formula 1 came around to see that killing off its name brand players was a bad idea and that the largest checkbook wins will ultimately turn away more fans than it will win. NCAAFB will either learn from the Formula 1s of the world or it will destroy itself trying to wring the last 20% of money like a sponge for the top 12-15 programs.

They're going the other way. I bet Alabama has more "analysts" than the NFL teams.
Any type of specific salary cap is unconstitutional. Now they may be legally able to cap total coach's salaries. I just don't see that as remotely likely.

The typical FBS team has nicer indoor practice facilities and locker room and team meeting facilities than NFL teams. Not just P5, it's true of many G5 and likely some FCS. But in the NFL you either draft a player or offer him more of your cap than the competition.
12-23-2019 10:06 PM
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Post: #43
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(12-22-2019 03:42 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(12-17-2019 10:41 PM)chester Wrote:  
Quote:Earlier this month, Senators Chris Murphy (D – Conn) and Mitt Romney (R – Utah) formed a bipartisan working group to review issues related to student-athlete economic rights. A potential result of their work is legislation to provide a national framework for name, image, and likeness compensation.

This article outlines the benefits that would accrue to college athletics if lawmakers also developed federal legislation to limit excessive spending on salaries and facilities...

Quote:...It is almost always in the personal job-security interest of athletics directors to pay highly popular coaches whatever it takes to retain them, lest they be blamed by influential constituents for allowing a beloved coach to get away...

Blue's ADU piece reminds me of something Bowlsby said last week. (5:00) He said the underbelly of the NIL discussion is the comparison of coaches' salaries to what players get, acknowledging that "commissioners make a lot of money too". He said "The escalation of salaries is real" and "if we don't find a way to slow it down and maybe slow down the proliferation of expansive facilities, we're going to find ourselves with a $20M coach before long..." He added that "ADs and presidents are really not capable of saying 'no' to a popular coach."

Bowlsby did not specify how they might achieve that but...I doubt Blue is the only one who wants what he proposes. 01-wingedeagle

I think administrators are becoming very concerned that the coaching salary thing has escalated to the point that its become very difficult to argue that players should receive no compensation above their educational benefit while coaches are routinely getting 4-10 million a year (or more).

I agree that they are concerned. But I think the concern is more "this looks bad" than "this is bad."

I think that if it could, the Cartel would jump at a system that allows it to keep individual player compensation caps as they are while also having the legal ability to cap coaching salaries (or having Congress regulate coaching salaries for them.) They'd use the money saved to expand the number of sports and/or scholarships in hopes that it would quell criticism.
12-29-2019 03:21 AM
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Post: #44
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(12-16-2019 06:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.

What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.

Would be a California AD and a "Dr."

They already lost a lawsuit on caps on salaries for lower level coaches. Guy should be fired for not understanding that. Congress can't just circumvent the Constitution.

While it might should be, I don't think that price-fixing (which includes wage-fixing) is necessarily unconstitutional. It was, however, made illegal in 1870 (I think) with the passage of the Sherman Act -- an antitrust law. The Federal Gov does have the ability to grant federal antitrust exemptions, as do the courts. I think...

It's telling that Dr. Blue, an AD, is calling for a cap on coaching salaries but not on the salaries of ADs or their bosses. As if an AD's ability to recognize good coaching ability plays no part in athletic success. As if a school president's ability to recognize that quality in a potential AD plays no part in athletic success...

Reminds me of something Walter Byers once said:

Quote:Today, the NCAA's Presidents Commission is preoccupied with tightening a few loose bolts in a worn machine, firmly committed to neoplantation belief that the enormous proceeds from college games belong to the overseers (the administrators) and the supervisors (coaches). The plantation workers performing in the arena may receive only those benefits authorized by the overseers.

Seems now that at least one overseer would sacrifice the supervisors to help keep the workers down...

Anyway, in a perfect world, the heads of all NCAA schools would, today, be indicted on the charge of criminal price-fixing, as they continually collude to fix the worth of the services provided by athletes. Price-fixing is punishable by up to 10 years in prison and/or a fine of up to $1M apiece and up to $100M for the organization itself.

Sadly, we don't live in a perfect world.
12-29-2019 04:20 AM
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Post: #45
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
Recent interview of Delany:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...ge-sports/

Among other things, he was asked about the possibility of capped coaches' salaries:

Quote:CBS Sports: As part of that, can an anti-trust exemption happen that would eventually cap coaches' salaries?

Delany: "I don't know if it can. It's got to be discussed. Has to be. Because we're going to need some guidance from the Department of Justice and Department of Education, both on the area of Title IX and the anti-trust. Right now, we're an object for plaintiffs' attorneys to [attack] the regulatory system. ... My crystal ball is not clear, but it tells me there is tremendous support for college sports [in Congress]. It is the area besides the U.S. military that is an opportunity engine. Does it have fault? It has fault.

"What do we do? We compete. If there are to be caps of some kind, the only way that will happen will be getting some guidance from the federal government. I can't for the life of me imagine what that looks like."
01-05-2020 12:19 AM
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Post: #46
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
How about Congress outlaws stupid suggestions by irrelevant ADs? This guy would need Johnny Cochran and the OJ Team to get him off.
01-05-2020 03:45 AM
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Post: #47
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
Some have mentioned caps in leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.

To my knowledge, no league has a cap that applies to coaching salaries, only to players.

If the coaches don't form a union that can be bargained with, caps have no legal standings.
01-05-2020 08:11 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-05-2020 08:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Some have mentioned caps in leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.

To my knowledge, no league has a cap that applies to coaching salaries, only to players.

If the coaches don't form a union that can be bargained with, caps have no legal standings.

As long as Washington doesn't legalize it, sure... (God willing, they won't)

But look at it from the Cartel's perspective. Their no. 1 priority is to keep players from being paid for their services. As Delany hinted at, they can no longer depend on the courts to allow them to cap player compensation. Their best bet now is to try get an antitrust exemption that codifies their longstanding economic suppression of valuable college athletes.

The Cartel also knows that it would "look bad" if they have the legal ability to dump on players while coaches have continual access to a free market.. Right?

It ought not surprise anyone if the NCAA seeks the ability cap coaches' pay or asks Congress to regulate their pay for them. After all, the Cartel has already tried to cap the pay of certain coaches, as has been noted in this thread.
01-05-2020 08:34 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-05-2020 08:34 AM)chester Wrote:  
(01-05-2020 08:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Some have mentioned caps in leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.

To my knowledge, no league has a cap that applies to coaching salaries, only to players.

If the coaches don't form a union that can be bargained with, caps have no legal standings.

As long as Washington doesn't legalize it, sure... (God willing, they won't)

But look at it from the Cartel's perspective. Their no. 1 priority is to keep players from being paid for their services. As Delany hinted at, they can no longer depend on the courts to allow them to cap player compensation. Their best bet now is to try get an antitrust exemption that codifies their longstanding economic suppression of valuable college athletes.

The Cartel also knows that it would "look bad" if they have the legal ability to dump on players while coaches have continual access to a free market.. Right?

It ought not surprise anyone if the NCAA seeks the ability cap coaches' pay or asks Congress to regulate their pay for them. After all, the Cartel has already tried to cap the pay of certain coaches, as has been noted in this thread.

Call me crazy, but I thought this discussion was being conducted within the bounds of the existing legal framework, as it seems ipso fatso obvious that Congress isn't going to waste any time working up legislation relating to the salaries of college athletics coaches.

That would seem to be an issue of about less than negligible concern. But hey who knows?
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2020 09:09 AM by quo vadis.)
01-05-2020 09:07 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-05-2020 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-05-2020 08:34 AM)chester Wrote:  
(01-05-2020 08:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Some have mentioned caps in leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.

To my knowledge, no league has a cap that applies to coaching salaries, only to players.

If the coaches don't form a union that can be bargained with, caps have no legal standings.

As long as Washington doesn't legalize it, sure... (God willing, they won't)

But look at it from the Cartel's perspective. Their no. 1 priority is to keep players from being paid for their services. As Delany hinted at, they can no longer depend on the courts to allow them to cap player compensation. Their best bet now is to try get an antitrust exemption that codifies their longstanding economic suppression of valuable college athletes.

The Cartel also knows that it would "look bad" if they have the legal ability to dump on players while coaches have continual access to a free market.. Right?

It ought not surprise anyone if the NCAA seeks the ability cap coaches' pay or asks Congress to regulate their pay for them. After all, the Cartel has already tried to cap the pay of certain coaches, as has been noted in this thread.

Call me crazy, but I thought this discussion was being conducted within the bounds of the existing legal framework, as it seems ipso fatso obvious that Congress isn't going to waste any time working up legislation relating to the salaries of college athletics coaches.

That would seem to be an issue of about less than negligible concern. But hey who knows?

My point is that the NCAA powers that be (the presidents) have no respect for the economic rights of others and would gladly sacrifice coaches if it helps to keep players in their "place."

But no, I don't think Congress would cap coaches' salaries, no matter how hard the NCAA might lobby for it.

Congress just needs to recognize that they hold ALL of the cards.
01-05-2020 09:24 AM
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Post: #51
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-05-2020 09:24 AM)chester Wrote:  
(01-05-2020 09:07 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-05-2020 08:34 AM)chester Wrote:  
(01-05-2020 08:11 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Some have mentioned caps in leagues like the NFL, NBA, etc.
To my knowledge, no league has a cap that applies to coaching salaries, only to players.

If the coaches don't form a union that can be bargained with, caps have no legal standings.

As long as Washington doesn't legalize it, sure... (God willing, they won't)

But look at it from the Cartel's perspective. Their no. 1 priority is to keep players from being paid for their services. As Delany hinted at, they can no longer depend on the courts to allow them to cap player compensation. Their best bet now is to try get an antitrust exemption that codifies their longstanding economic suppression of valuable college athletes.

The Cartel also knows that it would "look bad" if they have the legal ability to dump on players while coaches have continual access to a free market.. Right?

It ought not surprise anyone if the NCAA seeks the ability cap coaches' pay or asks Congress to regulate their pay for them. After all, the Cartel has already tried to cap the pay of certain coaches, as has been noted in this thread.

Call me crazy, but I thought this discussion was being conducted within the bounds of the existing legal framework, as it seems ipso fatso obvious that Congress isn't going to waste any time working up legislation relating to the salaries of college athletics coaches.

That would seem to be an issue of about less than negligible concern. But hey who knows?

My point is that the NCAA powers that be (the presidents) have no respect for the economic rights of others and would gladly sacrifice coaches if it helps to keep players in their "place."

But no, I don't think Congress would cap coaches' salaries, no matter how hard the NCAA might lobby for it.

Congress just needs to recognize that they hold ALL of the cards.

College football is now earning billions. Congress sees this a taxation windfall. They aren't going to cap coaches salaries and if they did the Supreme Court would likely strike it down.

I would think that they will probably support some form of pay for play because that gets players to pay into SSI and to be accountable for taxation.

I don't buy any of the arguments that Congress will cap anything to do with college athletics.
01-05-2020 02:08 PM
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Post: #52
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
If Congress were so inclined they can cap athletic spending. Exceed the cap, lose funds.

Would Congress pick a cap of X dollars? Maybe because that would be dumb.

If the inclination were to exist to cap, the smart way would be a cap of a certain amount per full time equivalency scholarship awarded. That would provide incentive to have a lot of sports and lot of scholarship athletes.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2020 10:13 AM by arkstfan.)
01-07-2020 10:13 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(12-16-2019 07:52 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(12-16-2019 12:54 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A cap on coaching salaries would be illegal.

What would you do if half of the employers in your profession got together and agreed to place a cap on your salary? You'd file a lawsuit, and you'd win.

It would definitely be illegal for government to do it. For the NCAA to do it is another thing.

Actually, it’s kind of the other way around. Congress could easily cap it by putting a limit on it tied to accepting Federal financial aid or by changing the antitrust laws.
01-07-2020 07:08 PM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-07-2020 10:13 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If Congress were so inclined they can cap athletic spending. Exceed the cap, lose funds.

Would Congress pick a cap of X dollars? Maybe because that would be dumb.

If the inclination were to exist to cap, the smart way would be a cap of a certain amount per full time equivalency scholarship awarded. That would provide incentive to have a lot of sports and lot of scholarship athletes.

I’d like to see it tied to salaries of professors. Can’t pay the coach more than double whatever the 90% salary is for faculty at the university for instance.
01-07-2020 07:13 PM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
Inflated executive pay reaches far beyond the confines of college athletics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_ratio
01-08-2020 11:18 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(12-16-2019 12:52 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  A cap on coaching salary would seriously hurt the bottom of the P5 and help the wealthy G5 schools willing to pay maximum salary.

03-lmfao

Unless you have a Sugar Daddy almost all G5 schools don't have fan bases and donor bases to compare with the bottom of the P5. Throw in the TV $$ disparity and it widens even more.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2020 07:15 PM by TexanMark.)
01-09-2020 03:27 PM
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Post: #57
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-05-2020 02:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  College football is now earning billions. Congress sees this a taxation windfall. They aren't going to cap coaches salaries and if they did the Supreme Court would likely strike it down.

I would think that they will probably support some form of pay for play because that gets players to pay into SSI and to be accountable for taxation.

I don't buy any of the arguments that Congress will cap anything to do with college athletics.

Honestly, I'm a pessimist regarding all things NCAA and am left to hope that if Congress addresses the matter of direct player pay, it doesn't equivocate and set some arbitrary limit on extra-educational benefits.

I forget now who it was, but one of the members of the *Congressional NIL work group said in an interview something like college athletes are deserving of "a little bit more than they get."

Well, athletes in college revenue sports don't need to be told that they're worth a "little bit more," they need to be told that they have the right to unionize and that cartel members can't set compensation caps without their say so. Sheesh



*not to be confused with the NCAA Board of Governors Federal and State Legislation Working Group;

or the Presidential Subcommittee of the NCAA Board of Governors Federal and State Legislation Working Group;

or the Division I Name, Image and Likeness Legislative Solutions Group;

or the Student-Athlete Work Product Subgroup of the Division I Name, Image and Likeness Legislative Solutions Group;

or the Individual Licensing Subgroup of the Division I Name, Image and Likeness Legislative Solutions Group;

or the Group Licensing Subgroup Division I Name, Image and Likeness Legislative Solutions Group;

or the Division II Legislation Committee;

or the Division III Oversight Group to Implement Recommendations of Federal and State Legislation Working Group.

01-11-2020 05:57 AM
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Post: #58
RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
College athletics aren't any sort of potential taxation windfall.

Could make some nickels and dimes enforcing the tax code on scholarships but virtually all the money passes out without a taxable profit. You deduct the salaries and debt payments from taxable income.
01-12-2020 04:23 PM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
On the subject of antitrust and the NCAA, this recent WSJ article might interest:

U.S. Antitrust Chief Signals Skepticism of NCAA in Athlete Pay Fight
01-18-2020 02:47 AM
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RE: D1 AD Argues For A Cap On Coaching Salaries
(01-07-2020 10:13 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  If Congress were so inclined they can cap athletic spending. Exceed the cap, lose funds.

Would Congress pick a cap of X dollars? Maybe because that would be dumb.

If the inclination were to exist to cap, the smart way would be a cap of a certain amount per full time equivalency scholarship awarded. That would provide incentive to have a lot of sports and lot of scholarship athletes.

The problem the Feds have is that athletics with Title 9 only worked because football/basketball money could easily pay the freight. If your going to require that football/basketball be run like a business---then you cant require the schools to operate money losing programs. Its either a business or its an amateur student athlete competition. It cant be both. As the sport is pressed on the legalities of its current structure----we have moved t the point where its going to have to be one or the other (either a business or a amateur student athletic competition). The only other options is for government to create a special legal anti-trust envelope specifically for college athletics that would allow it to continue to exist in something similar to its current form.
(This post was last modified: 01-18-2020 03:29 AM by Attackcoog.)
01-18-2020 03:26 AM
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