(12-22-2019 09:25 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:09 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

Agreed. I’m not sure the MAC will ever get back to that. Last year was the first year in a long time where we’ve even had the chance of getting 2 teams in the tournament, but no one could beat Buffalo when it mattered. The MAC is what it is at this point...a one-bid conference that can sometimes spring an upset or two in the dance.

Disagree a little...a good coach with a competent offense and winning philosophy could have guided this team to play competitively where you maybe have a 5-10 first half deficit and an inspired effort in the second half. Maybe losing by 10 to 20 points. Hardly a body bag game. Hell, Vegas thought we should be able to hang within 23 and Vegas knows more than any of us. We are stuck in a catch-22; you keep Murphy and he gets you some players but his in-game coaching and weekly preparation is sub par. You fire Murphy and the next coach will probably be an upgrade in the X's and O's but may not be able to land the same type of talent. I don't have the answer. We had a once in a generation coach in Ben Braun--pure luck and completely whiffed in evaluating Gary Waters. I think you have to keep swinging for greatness, we know what we're going to get with Murphy, is that enough for everyone? Do you risk being really bad again? I don't know.

It really is a tough situation. I didn’t think Murphy should be back this year, but it’s evident that the school won’t risk punishing mediocrity, especially when he still has another year (maybe more) on his deal. There’s a decent chance he hits his “20 win extension” (what an awful contract) this year, but we’ve largely been competitive, even good, this season. So I can’t complain too much.

If the bottom falls out in MAC play, and we only win 4 or 5 games, then he needs to go. But I doubt that happens. Our floor has always been high under Murphy, and it won’t change this season. I’ve accepted him for better (beating good mid majors like Valpo and Northeastern) or worse (getting embarrassed on national TV by MSU). You hit it on the head...I doubt we risk being bad again, when we aren’t bad right now.

(12-21-2019 10:37 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  That was an extremely embarrassing loss.
This is a good MSU team but not a great one from my perspective. MSU had a couple of shooters on the floor and yet we attacked every player with the ball like they had 35 foot range which left the zone very vulnerable for wide open looks and baseline dunks. There was absolutely no adjustments by Murphy.

The offense was terribly bad as well. I get it that MSU has superior athletes but we should be setting up our shooters with off the ball screens, etc. We did have an advantage inside with Toure but we didn't go to him enough and when we did he got decent looks at the basket. Even Toure was very far from perfect, but he got open looks. These open looks should have been used to develop Toure in the post and let him decide on whether or not to attack the basket or pass to the open perimeter man for a shot. Binelli is the real deal shooter but he was launching 40footers with guys on him. Murphy has got to do a thousand times better on devising a scheme to play to his team strengths. Well most of us have said the same thing thing over and over.

We will win between 7-9 games in the MAC.

Imagine if they had Hauser, Langford, and Watts.

(12-22-2019 09:37 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 10:37 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  That was an extremely embarrassing loss.
This is a good MSU team but not a great one from my perspective. MSU had a couple of shooters on the floor and yet we attacked every player with the ball like they had 35 foot range which left the zone very vulnerable for wide open looks and baseline dunks. There was absolutely no adjustments by Murphy.

The offense was terribly bad as well. I get it that MSU has superior athletes but we should be setting up our shooters with off the ball screens, etc. We did have an advantage inside with Toure but we didn't go to him enough and when we did he got decent looks at the basket. Even Toure was very far from perfect, but he got open looks. These open looks should have been used to develop Toure in the post and let him decide on whether or not to attack the basket or pass to the open perimeter man for a shot. Binelli is the real deal shooter but he was launching 40footers with guys on him. Murphy has got to do a thousand times better on devising a scheme to play to his team strengths. Well most of us have said the same thing thing over and over.

We will win between 7-9 games in the MAC.

Imagine if they had Hauser, Langford, and Watts.

They’d probably still be #1 in the country. I disagree with Luckey’s perspective...that’s still a potentially great MSU team and easily a final four contender as long as Winston is on the floor. He’s a maestro.

Watts would have been a benefit for us though. He’s struggling early, and steals minutes from Gabe Brown, who has been fantastic. Not really a surprise that MSU’s offense improved once Brown started playing more.

(12-22-2019 09:37 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 09:25 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:09 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

Agreed. I’m not sure the MAC will ever get back to that. Last year was the first year in a long time where we’ve even had the chance of getting 2 teams in the tournament, but no one could beat Buffalo when it mattered. The MAC is what it is at this point...a one-bid conference that can sometimes spring an upset or two in the dance.

Disagree a little...a good coach with a competent offense and winning philosophy could have guided this team to play competitively where you maybe have a 5-10 first half deficit and an inspired effort in the second half. Maybe losing by 10 to 20 points. Hardly a body bag game. Hell, Vegas thought we should be able to hang within 23 and Vegas knows more than any of us. We are stuck in a catch-22; you keep Murphy and he gets you some players but his in-game coaching and weekly preparation is sub par. You fire Murphy and the next coach will probably be an upgrade in the X's and O's but may not be able to land the same type of talent. I don't have the answer. We had a once in a generation coach in Ben Braun--pure luck and completely whiffed in evaluating Gary Waters. I think you have to keep swinging for greatness, we know what we're going to get with Murphy, is that enough for everyone? Do you risk being really bad again? I don't know.

It really is a tough situation. I didn’t think Murphy should be back this year, but it’s evident that the school won’t risk punishing mediocrity, especially when he still has another year (maybe more) on his deal. There’s a decent chance he hits his “20 win extension” (what an awful contract) this year, but we’ve largely been competitive, even good, this season. So I can’t complain too much.

If the bottom falls out in MAC play, and we only win 4 or 5 games, then he needs to go. But I doubt that happens. Our floor has always been high under Murphy, and it won’t change this season. I’ve accepted him for better (beating good mid majors like Valpo and Northeastern) or worse (getting embarrassed on national TV by MSU). You hit it on the head...I doubt we risk being bad again, when we aren’t bad right now.

If you add Gibson, a couple of solid power forwards/centers who play defense and score a bit with the current roster, I think we'll have a decent shot next year 2020-21. Team is lacking a true point guard. Its by committee right now. By the way Dillard and Chris James had decent showings last night. James took it down the lane a few times. Need to keep that confidence.

(12-22-2019 09:30 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 11:15 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 09:24 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 07:38 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Sounds about right. Even with a few disappointing losses, they’re still one of the best teams in the country, and should still be considered the favorites in the Big Ten. Hoping for a relatively competitive game with no injuries.

Reasonable post. Like you, I am a big MSU fan. I love Izzo and everything he stands for. That said, Eastern will probably not be competitive. Coaching kills in college basketball. Root for EMU but put your $$ on MSU! Michigan State wins by 32 (I'm being charitable).

So you love sexual assault? Not surprising.

What in the f*** are you talking about. You got some crackpot inside information on Tom Izzo promoting sexual assault?

https://www.si.com/college/2018/10/11/to...usations-1

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/stor...409013002/

(12-22-2019 08:09 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

Agreed. I’m not sure the MAC will ever get back to that. Last year was the first year in a long time where we’ve even had the chance of getting 2 teams in the tournament, but no one could beat Buffalo when it mattered. The MAC is what it is at this point...a one-bid conference that can sometimes spring an upset or two in the dance.

Buffalo was a true anomaly, they may have been the best MAC team in the past two decades. Perhaps due to the Butler's, Oakland's, Villanova's and such of the world concentrating the majority of their athletic resources to BB and not playing football, we have come to this point. That point being that the MAC is in no way competitive in NCAA D1 basketball. We can shock a lower level Big Ten team occasionally in football but in roundball a 27 point loss to 12th place Rutgers is more likely.

(12-22-2019 09:30 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 11:15 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 09:24 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 07:38 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Sounds about right. Even with a few disappointing losses, they’re still one of the best teams in the country, and should still be considered the favorites in the Big Ten. Hoping for a relatively competitive game with no injuries.

Reasonable post. Like you, I am a big MSU fan. I love Izzo and everything he stands for. That said, Eastern will probably not be competitive. Coaching kills in college basketball. Root for EMU but put your $$ on MSU! Michigan State wins by 32 (I'm being charitable).

So you love sexual assault? Not surprising.

What in the f*** are you talking about. You got some crackpot inside information on Tom Izzo promoting sexual assault?

He aides and protects rapists to keep them eligible. Don’t act like you don’t know. There’s plenty of info out there.

The “St. Tom” media depiction is horsepucker.

(12-22-2019 09:33 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 11:21 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Siena Heights would have given a better effort tonight. Or maybe a Special Olympics squad?

Nice. So classy, making fun of special needs people. People who graduate from college generally don't do that. Appalling.

If anyone knows about not graduating from college, it’s you.

(12-22-2019 10:45 AM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:09 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

Agreed. I’m not sure the MAC will ever get back to that. Last year was the first year in a long time where we’ve even had the chance of getting 2 teams in the tournament, but no one could beat Buffalo when it mattered. The MAC is what it is at this point...a one-bid conference that can sometimes spring an upset or two in the dance.

Buffalo was a true anomaly, they may have been the best MAC team in the past two decades. Perhaps due to the Butler's, Oakland's, Villanova's and such of the world concentrating the majority of their athletic resources to BB and not playing football, we have come to this point. That point being that the MAC is in no way competitive in NCAA D1 basketball. We can shock a lower level Big Ten team occasionally in football but in roundball a 27 point loss to 12th place Rutgers is more likely.

You are preaching to the choir (at least to me) on that.

As you know, when Marshall joined the MAC it changed MAC football forever.

As you indicated the first year Marshall played Mississippi in the Motor City Bowl. Then Marshall got with ESPN and came up with the Mobile bowl game and then later other bowl games came.

We went through a golden era of MAC FB with TOL, BG, Marshall, Miami, etc. We had Moss, Pennington, Gradkowski, Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Batch, Fyre, etc. etc.

I believe in 2000 both TOL and BG were nationally ranked going into their Nov. showdown game.

Remember all of the MAC Attack wins. I remember Penn State, Kansas State, Alabama, etc.

Clearly, the MAC had GONE FROM A MBB CONFERENCE TO A FB CONFERENCE.

Around 1996 (??) we had one bowl game and lost it with the demise of Big West FB. The Las Vegas Bowl was specifically designed to give MAC/Big West a bowl game and when the Big West dropped FB, it was curtains for that bowl game as a MAC game. (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

As Jerry notes, other non-P5 conferences had put their $ into MBB.

P.S. Jerry, 'Nova has a good FCS FB program, but your point is well taken. Schools like Oakland, Valpo, Butler, Dayton, etc. put their big bucks into MBB not FBS or scholarship FCS FB.

(12-22-2019 12:26 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 09:33 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 11:21 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Siena Heights would have given a better effort tonight. Or maybe a Special Olympics squad?

Nice. So classy, making fun of special needs people. People who graduate from college generally don't do that. Appalling.

If anyone knows about not graduating from college, it’s you.

Ooooh burn! Nice one, hillbilly! Learn that snappy comeback when you lived downriver? Taylor, right?

I might add in the 90s/00s the MAC spent big bucks on basketball but bball arenas such as EMU, NIU, BSU, BG, etc. AND major major renovations in TOL, WMU, CMU, UB, etc.

In more recent years at has been IPF and SAPCs.

(12-22-2019 01:23 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 12:26 PM)holybovine Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 09:33 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(12-21-2019 11:21 PM)holybovine Wrote:  Siena Heights would have given a better effort tonight. Or maybe a Special Olympics squad?

Nice. So classy, making fun of special needs people. People who graduate from college generally don't do that. Appalling.

If anyone knows about not graduating from college, it’s you.

Ooooh burn! Nice one, hillbilly! Learn that snappy comeback when you lived downriver? Taylor, right?

Stop worrying about my responses and start reading up on St. Tom’s morals.

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

We had a real floor general then and a real offensive.

(12-23-2019 06:43 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

We had a real floor general then and a real offensive.

Yep. It was a 'lightning strike.' Doubt we'll ever see it again. Lightning strikes are rare and repeat are like, .0000000001.

For example, George Mason went to the Final Four and haven't been to the NCAAs since.

Another case in point: Loyola (Chi). Went to the 2018 Finals and then the year after to the NIT (lost in the first round). They've lost to Coppin State so far this season.

Going O/T MSU 48, WMU 24 at the half. Cassius Winston not playing. Banged up.

Unfortunately, I think MSU can name their margin this year vs. MAC teams.

(12-23-2019 07:16 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(12-23-2019 06:43 AM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(12-22-2019 08:04 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We all knew this was a body bag game for the $$$
yes the poor FT shooting was inexcusable.
Sometimes you have a bad shooting night from the field
We are a long way still from the Boykins competitive Teams Those teams could hang with anyone

We had a real floor general then and a real offensive.

Yep. It was a 'lightning strike.' Doubt we'll ever see it again. Lightning strikes are rare and repeat are like, .0000000001.

For example, George Mason went to the Final Four and haven't been to the NCAAs since.

Another case in point: Loyola (Chi). Went to the 2018 Finals and then the year after to the NIT (lost in the first round). They've lost to Coppin State so far this season.

Excuses excuses excuses your new nickname should “private excuses”