I would push for a 40k seat stadium downtown as part of one of the new construction projects.

Honestly though, the Liberty Bowl is fine. Tiger Lane is super nice and walking to CY bars after the game is cool as well.

We have one of the best home field advantages in the country and I think part of that has to do with the liberty bowl. Its massive and makes us more intimidating. I love it and don't want a little 30k stadium. Chair back the whole thing and spend some $ on new press boxes and call it a day.

(12-09-2019 10:02 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Outside of being in a G5 conference, The Liberty Bowl costs the university more in lost revenue than anything else.

WOW, I have seen some delusional statements before but this one takes the cake.


Some of you have got to get past that green-eyed monster. An OCS is not needed nor is it economically feasible.

The city of Memphis loses money every year in the actual operation of LBS. That is with 3 paying tenants.

Everyone wants to point toward revenue generated and how we would be able to keep it all but no one wants to factor in the cost of generating the revenue.

The U of M pays ZERO toward the actual operation of the stadium outside our rent and a part of the cost of paying for the upgrades but ONLY if the revenue generated from the Tourism Zone does not generate the needed revenue to pay for the upgrades.

We pay nothing when it comes to maintenance of the stadium, general repairs upkeep utilities and salaries for operations.

We would have to pay 100% of these costs if we had an OCS PLUS the actual cost of building the OCS. And unlike the city we do not get the benefit of tax revenues generated by events to help cover the cost.

The money we will be forced to spend in the building and upkeep will come out of our current building funds which we are using to upgrade athletic facilities. This means facilities such as an indoor practice facility or improvement to other athletic facilities such as basketball, baseball softball andfacilities for non-revenue sports.

Some of you have got to get over this petty jealousy of other schools just because they have a shiny new playtoy that we do not have.

Not to mention there is no legitimate spot for an OCS stadium located on the campus. You may be able to physically set its footprint into an area. But that is not taking in account infrastructure needed for such an arena. It is not as if you can just plug into the existing electrical and water service and just run a pipe to the current sewage facilities. Nor does it address needed traffic flow or actual parking for such an arena. There are only around 9,000 parking spots spread out all around the entire campus. You could kiss tailgating before the game goodbye.

(12-09-2019 10:36 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  The liberty bowl game and shc will fight this tooth and nail, even if Strickland pushed it thru Fred jones and ehrhardt would file a lawsuit and it would stay in the courts until the next election

They are not the top tenants and do not make the rules.

A lot of major schools actually play near but not on their main campus

Pretty sure

Washington
Nebraska
Miami
USC
UCLA

Didn't look it up

Smallest P5 stadium capacities (under 50,000)

Vanderbilt 40,550
Northwestern 47,130
Boston College 44,500
Wake Forest 31,500
Duke 40,004
Baylor 45,140
Utah 45,807
Wash State 32,952
Oregon State 43,363

AAC capacities- per Phil Steele Magazine, may be a little off using different configurations

Cincinnati 40,000
UCF 45,301
USF 65,890
Temple 69,176
ECU 50,000
UConn 40,642
Memphis 61,000
Houston 40,000
Tulane 30,000
SMU 32,000
Navy 34.000
Tulsa 30,000

Interesting because Houston, Tulane, SMU and Cincy have larger professional stadiums in town while Temple and USF play in an NFL stadium.

Does Temple have an on campus stadium too?

The solution is easy:
1) Tarp above the upper portals to reduce capacity to 40K (or whatever is thought appropriate) for the coming season.
2) That is the capacity for all Memphis games that year.
3) put signage on tarps to help defer cost.
4) THERE! You have an appropriate sized stadium that can easily be increased/decreased as demand dictates from season to season.
5) For SHC & LB, remove the tarps and everyone is happy.
6) Consider having Univ take over operation of the stadium (for ALL games, including SHC & LB). City would still be responsible for major structural upkeep, but Univ would take over gameday operations and benefit from Concessions, Parking, Etc. for Tiger Games. [Not sure if/how this would all work, but just opening for discussion.]

The tarp idea can be tested for a few years. If it doesnt help, you havent lost much.

(12-09-2019 10:51 PM)grapes Wrote:  We have one of the best home field advantages in the country and I think part of that has to do with the liberty bowl. Its massive and makes us more intimidating. I love it and don't want a little 30k stadium. Chair back the whole thing and spend some $ on new press boxes and call it a day.

I'm all for that. Just one problem. It cost the UofM $5 million just for 5,000 new chairbacks a few years ago.

To chair back the entire 58,000 seat stadium, it would cost about $53 million.

Although seating capacity would be reduced to around 47,000+. Which would be ideal for UofM. Not so much though for the LB Classic. But they would have to either like it or leave.

A new press box would cost anywhere between $20-30 million. Plus new ramps and elevator shafts.

Total investment would be about $75-85 million. That's just a ballpark estimate. But that kind of money would be closer to what it would cost to build a new OCS.

Houston's 40,000 seat OCS cost $100 million.

(12-09-2019 11:49 PM)Penny1 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:51 PM)grapes Wrote:  We have one of the best home field advantages in the country and I think part of that has to do with the liberty bowl. Its massive and makes us more intimidating. I love it and don't want a little 30k stadium. Chair back the whole thing and spend some $ on new press boxes and call it a day.

I'm all for that. Just one problem. It cost the UofM $5 million just for 5,000 new chairbacks a few years ago.

To chair back the entire 58,000 seat stadium, it would cost about $53 million.

Although seating capacity would be reduced to around 47,000+. Which would be ideal for UofM. Not so much though for the LB Classic. But they would have to either like it or leave.

A new press box would cost anywhere between $20-30 million. Plus new ramps and elevator shafts.

Total investment would be about $75-85 million. That's just a ballpark estimate. But that kind of money would be closer to what it would cost to build a new OCS.

Houston's 40,000 seat OCS cost $100 million.

So you’re saying it cost $1000 a seat to chairback? Don’t think so.

You guys need to take a good look at the modern revenue-generating stadiums.

They have a strip of digital signage all the way around the stadium like the FedEx Forum.

They have modern suites at mid-level of the stadium instead of difficult to access sky boxes with distant views.

The concourses have live TV feeds and audio throughout.

The have programmable stadium lighting now that allows for flashing, colors, and on-off switching.

The concession and retail areas are modern, permanent, and often franchised. There is more footage for food prep and storage areas in the individual bays.

Sure, the Liberty Bowl is a comfortable place with nice site lines, but the revenue generating tools of the modern stadium are not there. It is only going to get worse. At some point you have to cut bait.

(12-09-2019 11:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  You guys need to take a good look at the modern revenue-generating stadiums.

They have a strip of digital signage all the way around the stadium like the FedEx Forum.

They have modern suites at mid-level of the stadium instead of difficult to access sky boxes with distant views.

The concourses have live TV feeds and audio throughout.

The have programmable stadium lighting now that allows for flashing, colors, and on-off switching.

The concession and retail areas are modern, permanent, and often franchised. There is more footage for food prep and storage areas in the individual bays.

Sure, the Liberty Bowl is a comfortable place with nice site lines, but the revenue generating tools of the modern stadium are not there. It is only going to get worse. At some point you have to cut bait.

Great post and thanks.

(12-09-2019 11:54 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 11:49 PM)Penny1 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:51 PM)grapes Wrote:  We have one of the best home field advantages in the country and I think part of that has to do with the liberty bowl. Its massive and makes us more intimidating. I love it and don't want a little 30k stadium. Chair back the whole thing and spend some $ on new press boxes and call it a day.

I'm all for that. Just one problem. It cost the UofM $5 million just for 5,000 new chairbacks a few years ago.

To chair back the entire 58,000 seat stadium, it would cost about $53 million.

Although seating capacity would be reduced to around 47,000+. Which would be ideal for UofM. Not so much though for the LB Classic. But they would have to either like it or leave.

A new press box would cost anywhere between $20-30 million. Plus new ramps and elevator shafts.

Total investment would be about $75-85 million. That's just a ballpark estimate. But that kind of money would be closer to what it would cost to build a new OCS.

Houston's 40,000 seat OCS cost $100 million.

So you’re saying it cost $1000 a seat to chairback? Don’t think so.

It's not the seats that cost the most money. It's the construction of widening the concrete rows.

But I do recall them saying that each seat cost quite a bit.

(12-09-2019 11:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  You guys need to take a good look at the modern revenue-generating stadiums.

They have a strip of digital signage all the way around the stadium like the FedEx Forum.

They have modern suites at mid-level of the stadium instead of difficult to access sky boxes with distant views.

The concourses have live TV feeds and audio throughout.

The have programmable stadium lighting now that allows for flashing, colors, and on-off switching.

The concession and retail areas are modern, permanent, and often franchised. There is more footage for food prep and storage areas in the individual bays.

Sure, the Liberty Bowl is a comfortable place with nice site lines, but the revenue generating tools of the modern stadium are not there. It is only going to get worse. At some point you have to cut bait.

Interesting

Setting aside talk of our football program and the like

The historic iconic nature of the Liberty Bowl makes it painful to imagine Memphis without it. Modernizations happen and are needed. But it still feels weird not seeing Baptist Hospital, Chicks Stadium, a useful Mid South Coliseum, and even the Mall of Memphis and Raleigh Springs Mall.

Sigh

OCS Long Term

1) Think Audubon Park to the East all the way to Perkins
2) Think immanent domain of the homes between the University now and Audubon Park
3) Think connection to Audubon on the East - South would be across Park
4) Think Stadium on what is the golf course with parking
5) Think large tree area as tailgating area
6) Think large areas for new expansion of the university
7) Think of the new development the entire area around the university on that side - would transform the community

These are things that are discussed

(12-09-2019 11:56 PM)Claw Wrote:  You guys need to take a good look at the modern revenue-generating stadiums.

They have a strip of digital signage all the way around the stadium like the FedEx Forum.

They have modern suites at mid-level of the stadium instead of difficult to access sky boxes with distant views.

The concourses have live TV feeds and audio throughout.

The have programmable stadium lighting now that allows for flashing, colors, and on-off switching.

The concession and retail areas are modern, permanent, and often franchised. There is more footage for food prep and storage areas in the individual bays.

Sure, the Liberty Bowl is a comfortable place with nice site lines, but the revenue generating tools of the modern stadium are not there. It is only going to get worse. At some point you have to cut bait.

You can have a lot of that you just described at the Liberty Bowl Stadium.

They have done quite a bit of upgrading as it is, including adding arguably the nicest stadium locker room in college football. More are coming in the next phase.

They need a new press box with a plaza area that is fan friendly to hang out while watching the game. New LED commercial signage around the concourse and maybe add a sports bar and a retail team store for gamedays.

Those things bring in added revenue.

Make the place fan friendly and more people will want to go.

(12-10-2019 12:03 AM)Penny1 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 11:54 PM)uskjtc02 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 11:49 PM)Penny1 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:51 PM)grapes Wrote:  We have one of the best home field advantages in the country and I think part of that has to do with the liberty bowl. Its massive and makes us more intimidating. I love it and don't want a little 30k stadium. Chair back the whole thing and spend some $ on new press boxes and call it a day.

I'm all for that. Just one problem. It cost the UofM $5 million just for 5,000 new chairbacks a few years ago.

To chair back the entire 58,000 seat stadium, it would cost about $53 million.

Although seating capacity would be reduced to around 47,000+. Which would be ideal for UofM. Not so much though for the LB Classic. But they would have to either like it or leave.

A new press box would cost anywhere between $20-30 million. Plus new ramps and elevator shafts.

Total investment would be about $75-85 million. That's just a ballpark estimate. But that kind of money would be closer to what it would cost to build a new OCS.

Houston's 40,000 seat OCS cost $100 million.

So you’re saying it cost $1000 a seat to chairback? Don’t think so.

It's not the seats that cost the most money. It's the construction of widening the concrete rows.

But I do recall them saying that each seat cost quite a bit.

Thanks for clearing things up for me!

(12-10-2019 12:13 AM)griffin Wrote:  OCS Long Term

1) Think Audubon Park to the East all the way to Perkins
2) Think immanent domain of the homes between the University now and Audubon Park
3) Think connection to Audubon on the East - South would be across Park
4) Think Stadium on what is the golf course with parking
5) Think large tree area as tailgating area
6) Think large areas for new expansion of the university
7) Think of the new development the entire area around the university on that side - would transform the community

These are things that are discussed

That would be awesome!

(12-09-2019 11:07 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 10:02 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Outside of being in a G5 conference, The Liberty Bowl costs the university more in lost revenue than anything else.

WOW, I have seen some delusional statements before but this one takes the cake.


Some of you have got to get past that green-eyed monster. An OCS is not needed nor is it economically feasible.

The city of Memphis loses money every year in the actual operation of LBS. That is with 3 paying tenants.

Everyone wants to point toward revenue generated and how we would be able to keep it all but no one wants to factor in the cost of generating the revenue.

The U of M pays ZERO toward the actual operation of the stadium outside our rent and a part of the cost of paying for the upgrades but ONLY if the revenue generated from the Tourism Zone does not generate the needed revenue to pay for the upgrades.

We pay nothing when it comes to maintenance of the stadium, general repairs upkeep utilities and salaries for operations.

We would have to pay 100% of these costs if we had an OCS PLUS the actual cost of building the OCS. And unlike the city we do not get the benefit of tax revenues generated by events to help cover the cost.

The money we will be forced to spend in the building and upkeep will come out of our current building funds which we are using to upgrade athletic facilities. This means facilities such as an indoor practice facility or improvement to other athletic facilities such as basketball, baseball softball andfacilities for non-revenue sports.

Some of you have got to get over this petty jealousy of other schools just because they have a shiny new playtoy that we do not have.

Not to mention there is no legitimate spot for an OCS stadium located on the campus. You may be able to physically set its footprint into an area. But that is not taking in account infrastructure needed for such an arena. It is not as if you can just plug into the existing electrical and water service and just run a pipe to the current sewage facilities. Nor does it address needed traffic flow or actual parking for such an arena. There are only around 9,000 parking spots spread out all around the entire campus. You could kiss tailgating before the game goodbye.

And this mindset is why we are in the AAC and Louisville is in the ACC.

Love the dream of an OCS but there are so many reasons this not practical for the foreseeable future. Minnesota built a 50K stadium a few years ago for about $350M. Our University could not begin to swing anything like that financially without sacrificing a decade or more of other capital improvements, most for academic purposes. Assuming it could finance it somehow, all that is for a facility that would be fully utilized just 6-7 times a year and likely would be on a satellite (not main) campus.

Yes, the LB is 20K too big for our average attendance right now. Are we satisfied with averaging 40K long term? If the goal is P5, the effort needs to go towards fan base expansion to fill it up rather than break the bank to downsize. It’s not like we haven’t seen glimpses (SMU) of what happens when the casual fans get engaged and when normally-excess seats are priced to sell. And there are less expensive ways than total replacement to improve the fan experience, generate more revenue and make whatever empty sections remain less obvious.

(12-09-2019 09:43 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Does anybody have any clue about how much chairbacking would run?

Truthfully, chairbacking (and well done chairbacking) would make the LB very nice. The LB has great sightlines and when there's a good crowd, the LB really looks good.

I think the issue with chairbacking is both the cost and ADA. Does anybody have any additional insight on that?

A very nice, all-chairback LB with a capacity of around 50k would be stellar. Not as good as an OCS, but would be quite nice.

I am not an engineer, but I wonder whether the support structure of the stadium could handle the load from all the additional concrete necessary to widen the rows. That might have worked for the sections that were chair backed below the ring because they are at/below grade and were built on the ground. Above the ring, everything is supported by piers, beams, arches and such. I’d be surprised if they could add 4-6” of concrete to every row without having to do some serious reinforcement, for serious $$$.

(12-10-2019 01:01 AM)CRM114 Wrote:  Love the dream of an OCS but there are so many reasons this not practical for the foreseeable future. Minnesota built a 50K stadium a few years ago for about $350M.

STOP.

We live in a "right to work" state. No Unions. Cut that construction cost in half for this region.

Now, continue....