Rather than continue this in the transfer thread, Rocco's reply made me wonder ...

I know this is very premature, but it is a discussion to be had either this off season or in the future. If Marion goes, do they promote from within and continue to try and run the go go? I get that this is Marion's thing, but Barthel and London Jr have been emersed in it for years. Or, do they bring in a new OC from outside?

Honestly, I kinda hope we don't. I know it's only been one season but it seems to me that if we want to run an up-tempo, run-heavy style, there are other offenses out there that are better suited to it. I just don't see other coaches having the "passion" for the GoGo that Marion does.

Go-go is simply an offense that isolates players in space and runs multiple plays out of the same formation using read option. He has put together concepts from other offensive systems. The hurry up part is just to keep the defense on the field without a chance for substitution. I will say that it looks like there a lot of gadget plays, but those are the ones that isolate the players in space or one on one. Go back and look at the play when Burdick had the huge rushing TD on the jet sweep. That was a run/pass option. Receivers went deep and he had 30 yards of open space. Same play in another game resulted in a pass completion (Burdick was a QB in HS).

I would assume that the new OC would install whatever system makes sense for the team and coaches.

I say we copy and install Joe Brady's offense.

(12-09-2019 02:03 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Go-go is simply an offense that isolates players in space and runs multiple plays out of the same formation using read option. He has put together concepts from other offensive systems. The hurry up part is just to keep the defense on the field without a chance for substitution. I will say that it looks like there a lot of gadget plays, but those are the ones that isolate the players in space or one on one. Go back and look at the play when Burdick had the huge rushing TD on the jet sweep. That was a run/pass option. Receivers went deep and he had 30 yards of open space. Same play in another game resulted in a pass completion (Burdick was a QB in HS).

I would assume that the new OC would install whatever system makes sense for the team and coaches.

So I was asking this all season and never got a definite answer. Do we actually use LOS/post snap reads or is the play called in from the sideline and the formation is made to look the same no matter what we run?

(12-09-2019 02:03 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Go-go is simply an offense that isolates players in space and runs multiple plays out of the same formation using read option. He has put together concepts from other offensive systems. The hurry up part is just to keep the defense on the field without a chance for substitution. I will say that it looks like there a lot of gadget plays, but those are the ones that isolate the players in space or one on one. Go back and look at the play when Burdick had the huge rushing TD on the jet sweep. That was a run/pass option. Receivers went deep and he had 30 yards of open space. Same play in another game resulted in a pass completion (Burdick was a QB in HS).

I would assume that the new OC would install whatever system makes sense for the team and coaches.

Gogo was kind of a misnomer. I was expecting a much faster pace that we saw for the vast majority of the year. I loved the focus on the run game but see us being much better with a complete passing game rather than the 10 run/passes to the sideline flats and 5 long hitters per game that we basically had every Saturday.

(12-09-2019 02:35 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:03 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Go-go is simply an offense that isolates players in space and runs multiple plays out of the same formation using read option. He has put together concepts from other offensive systems. The hurry up part is just to keep the defense on the field without a chance for substitution. I will say that it looks like there a lot of gadget plays, but those are the ones that isolate the players in space or one on one. Go back and look at the play when Burdick had the huge rushing TD on the jet sweep. That was a run/pass option. Receivers went deep and he had 30 yards of open space. Same play in another game resulted in a pass completion (Burdick was a QB in HS).

I would assume that the new OC would install whatever system makes sense for the team and coaches.

Gogo was kind of a misnomer. I was expecting a much faster pace that we saw for the vast majority of the year. I loved the focus on the run game but see us being much better with a complete passing game rather than the 10 run/passes to the sideline flats and 5 long hitters per game that we basically had every Saturday.

To play devils advocate, I don't think we got the full Gogo experience this season. I think the combination of a freshman in a new offense combined with his shoulder injury caused a slower, more deliberate offense than Marion wants to run. The offense can only go as fast as your team can execute. I didn't go back and look at the offensive plays per game, but I'd guess they are down from where they were at Howard. I know they were way off the play count they talked about in the preseason.

(12-09-2019 02:57 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:35 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:03 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Go-go is simply an offense that isolates players in space and runs multiple plays out of the same formation using read option. He has put together concepts from other offensive systems. The hurry up part is just to keep the defense on the field without a chance for substitution. I will say that it looks like there a lot of gadget plays, but those are the ones that isolate the players in space or one on one. Go back and look at the play when Burdick had the huge rushing TD on the jet sweep. That was a run/pass option. Receivers went deep and he had 30 yards of open space. Same play in another game resulted in a pass completion (Burdick was a QB in HS).

I would assume that the new OC would install whatever system makes sense for the team and coaches.

Gogo was kind of a misnomer. I was expecting a much faster pace that we saw for the vast majority of the year. I loved the focus on the run game but see us being much better with a complete passing game rather than the 10 run/passes to the sideline flats and 5 long hitters per game that we basically had every Saturday.

To play devils advocate, I don't think we got the full Gogo experience this season. I think the combination of a freshman in a new offense combined with his shoulder injury caused a slower, more deliberate offense than Marion wants to run. The offense can only go as fast as your team can execute. I didn't go back and look at the offensive plays per game, but I'd guess they are down from where they were at Howard. I know they were way off the play count they talked about in the preseason.

I don't disagree that those factored into the less than gogo nature of the offense but I simply don't understand why. Call the plays and run them. We knew after ECU that Mathis' arm was less than optimal because of some injury. Not sure the pace couldn't have picked up over time.

Everything's faster at the next level. Throw in learning a scheme that relies on reading defenses like you've never done it before and then an injury on top of that. It's not unrealistic to need a whole season to ramp up.

(12-09-2019 02:57 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:35 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:  

(12-09-2019 02:03 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Go-go is simply an offense that isolates players in space and runs multiple plays out of the same formation using read option. He has put together concepts from other offensive systems. The hurry up part is just to keep the defense on the field without a chance for substitution. I will say that it looks like there a lot of gadget plays, but those are the ones that isolate the players in space or one on one. Go back and look at the play when Burdick had the huge rushing TD on the jet sweep. That was a run/pass option. Receivers went deep and he had 30 yards of open space. Same play in another game resulted in a pass completion (Burdick was a QB in HS).

I would assume that the new OC would install whatever system makes sense for the team and coaches.

Gogo was kind of a misnomer. I was expecting a much faster pace that we saw for the vast majority of the year. I loved the focus on the run game but see us being much better with a complete passing game rather than the 10 run/passes to the sideline flats and 5 long hitters per game that we basically had every Saturday.

To play devils advocate, I don't think we got the full Gogo experience this season. I think the combination of a freshman in a new offense combined with his shoulder injury caused a slower, more deliberate offense than Marion wants to run. The offense can only go as fast as your team can execute. I didn't go back and look at the offensive plays per game, but I'd guess they are down from where they were at Howard. I know they were way off the play count they talked about in the preseason.

I think you are correct. Slow Go with the GoGo until we get the personnel.

As long as the multi-talented Mathis returns healthy and with about 10-15 more pounds from the weight room I don't care if we run the single wing.

To my point about not operating at the tempo that the coaches want, I pulled up the total offensive play stats from the last few years.

Howard 2017
775 total plays in 11 games - 70.5 ppg

Howard 2018
754 plays in 10 games - 75.4 ppg

W&M 2019
803 plays in 12 games - 67 ppg

I remember either Marion or London talking about wanting to be in the 80s when discussing the offense in the preseason.

For curiosity sake, I averaged the total plays for Tribe football from 2014 through 2018. It averaged out to 64.1 plays per game. 3 plays less than the Gogo averaged this year.

If averages hold, I'd expect a tempo increase this season into the low 70s and then hopefully trending towards the 80s by year 3. Whether the uptick in tempo leads to wins is a different discussion. That is to be determined and I think is much more attached to improvement from the defense.

(12-10-2019 07:10 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  To my point about not operating at the tempo that the coaches want, I pulled up the total offensive play stats from the last few years.

Howard 2017
775 total plays in 11 games - 70.5 ppg

Howard 2018
754 plays in 10 games - 75.4 ppg

W&M 2019
803 plays in 12 games - 67 ppg

I remember either Marion or London talking about wanting to be in the 80s when discussing the offense in the preseason.

For curiosity sake, I averaged the total plays for Tribe football from 2014 through 2018. It averaged out to 64.1 plays per game. 3 plays less than the Gogo averaged this year.

If averages hold, I'd expect a tempo increase this season into the low 70s and then hopefully trending towards the 80s by year 3. Whether the uptick in tempo leads to wins is a different discussion. That is to be determined and I think is much more attached to improvement from the defense.

W&M ran a play on average every 23.6 seconds they had the ball. It was about 28 seconds in 2017 and 2018. That doesn't control for score effects or anything but that's a good bit faster. Howard was at 21.7 seconds in 2018 and 24.1 in 2017. You can only run so many plays when you can't get the opposing offense off the field. Opponents averaged 76 plays/game last year after averaging 63 in 2017 and 67 in 2018.

I really can't see Marion leaving just yet. Yes, he has great ideas, but you look at the results of his offenses. 7-4 and 4-6 at Howard, and 5-7 this year at WM. Yes, there are flashes of what's possible, but it doesn't seem to have materialized on the field just yet.

I hope we get rid of the gimmicky go-go offense but run an up tempo offense.

Enter the next suitor...
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/ca...c-position

(12-12-2019 05:53 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Enter the next suitor...
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/ca...c-position

Gee. Wonder who the source is on that one...

(12-12-2019 06:04 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(12-12-2019 05:53 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Enter the next suitor...
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/ca...c-position

Gee. Wonder who the source is on that one...

Hmm. Is he into self promotion?

(12-12-2019 06:07 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(12-12-2019 06:04 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(12-12-2019 05:53 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Enter the next suitor...
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/ca...c-position

Gee. Wonder who the source is on that one...

Hmm. Is he into self promotion?

Rumor has it

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(12-12-2019 06:17 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(12-12-2019 06:07 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  

(12-12-2019 06:04 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(12-12-2019 05:53 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  Enter the next suitor...
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/ca...c-position

Gee. Wonder who the source is on that one...

Hmm. Is he into self promotion?

Rumor has it

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Why else all the Cali offers......