Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Interesting......
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
CG_Hawk06 Offline
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 11,430
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 406
I Root For: UNCW / America
Location:
Post: #21
RE: Interesting......
What was the fallout from Moss to Buzz? That should be considered in this debate as well.
12-09-2019 04:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gary Miller Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,358
Joined: Dec 2017
Reputation: 16
I Root For: UNCW Seahawks
Location:
Post: #22
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 03:33 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 03:28 PM)jumpinmullet Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 03:12 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 03:10 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 01:58 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I get it that all signs point to green there, every other UNC connection has failed us miserably! of course, at that point we would have one less failed experiment

I'm fine if they stay away from Carolina guys as well. Buzz and CB were very different hires, but I think the most worrisome result of the CB hire is how it reflects on Bass. With Keatts, he was fantastically right; CB's tenure so far has been as bad as Keatts' was good. How is Bass as an evaluator? If Stack reached out to UNCW and we weren't interested in having a conversation, I would be frustrated as a fan.
CB has gotten some good kids here! I'll give credit where it's due. I just hope if we do make a change we don't lose them all

It goes with the territory for the most part unless you hire an assistant that has enough pull to get kids to stay. Keatts left, takes the best player along with him and the entire class decommits. So if you change coaches it might come with some serious rebuild time-again. While I am not happy with how the team looks this year I am not in favor of talking about other coaches this year at all.

Different situation though. I don't remember the change having that big of an effect from Buzz----> KK

It should be noted, KK kept Kevin Easley from Buzz's staff. Easley is actually who first met Chris Flemmings. Also, Craig Ponder played for Keatts at Hargrave and probably played a huge part in keeping guys around.
12-09-2019 05:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
82hawk Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,781
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: UN CW
Location:
Post: #23
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 04:39 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  What was the fallout from Moss to Buzz? That should be considered in this debate as well.

Not sure that's good example. Moss fired midseason, UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.
12-09-2019 05:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CG_Hawk06 Offline
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 11,430
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 406
I Root For: UNCW / America
Location:
Post: #24
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 05:13 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 04:39 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  What was the fallout from Moss to Buzz? That should be considered in this debate as well.

Not sure that's good example. Moss fired midseason, UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.

Why would that NOT be a good example. Most of the folks on here that have been consistently down on McGrath (not saying they're wrong or right), have on numerous occasions made comparisons between the two.

There's no guarantee we're gonna land a Keatts success story following McGrath if that time comes later or sooner than later. I'd be willing to make a bet that the possibility of hiring a successful coach is lower than the chances we hire another middling or dud, similar to how we went from Moss to Buzz.

Finally, I was asking for that info because we can't be that picky and choosy on what such data we handpick to use, if we are making any realistic attempt at objectivity on the matter.
12-09-2019 05:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
82hawk Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,781
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: UN CW
Location:
Post: #25
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 05:18 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:13 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 04:39 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  What was the fallout from Moss to Buzz? That should be considered in this debate as well.

Not sure that's good example. Moss fired midseason, UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.

Why would that NOT be a good example. Most of the folks on here that have been consistently down on McGrath (not saying they're wrong or right), have on numerous occasions made comparisons between the two.
There's no guarantee we're gonna land a Keatts success story following McGrath if that time comes later or sooner than later. I'd be willing to make a bet that the possibility of hiring a successful coach is lower than the chances we hire another middling or dud, similar to how we went from Moss to Buzz.

Finally, I was asking for that info because we can't be that picky and choosy on what such data we handpick to use, if we are making any realistic attempt at objectivity on the matter.

We lost three players in the transition from Benny to Buzz if that helps in any way. One of them was a grad transfer, John Fields to Tennessee He transferred from ECU and only stayed on year.
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2019 06:37 PM by 82hawk.)
12-09-2019 06:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawk2010 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 592
Joined: Dec 2017
Reputation: 2
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #26
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 06:36 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:18 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:13 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 04:39 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  What was the fallout from Moss to Buzz? That should be considered in this debate as well.

Not sure that's good example. Moss fired midseason, UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.

Why would that NOT be a good example. Most of the folks on here that have been consistently down on McGrath (not saying they're wrong or right), have on numerous occasions made comparisons between the two.
There's no guarantee we're gonna land a Keatts success story following McGrath if that time comes later or sooner than later. I'd be willing to make a bet that the possibility of hiring a successful coach is lower than the chances we hire another middling or dud, similar to how we went from Moss to Buzz.

Finally, I was asking for that info because we can't be that picky and choosy on what such data we handpick to use, if we are making any realistic attempt at objectivity on the matter.

We lost three players in the transition from Benny to Buzz if that helps in any way. One of them was a grad transfer, John Fields to Tennessee He transferred from ECU and only stayed on year.

Technically 4 total. Fields was the only one to transfer to another D-1 school. Lacey, Basnight, O’huaregbe “left” one way or the other due to academics. Not sure they would have been academically eligible. Thus the APR issues...
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2019 07:24 PM by Seahawk2010.)
12-09-2019 07:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
82hawk Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,781
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: UN CW
Location:
Post: #27
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 07:16 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 06:36 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:18 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:13 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 04:39 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  What was the fallout from Moss to Buzz? That should be considered in this debate as well.

Not sure that's good example. Moss fired midseason, UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.

Why would that NOT be a good example. Most of the folks on here that have been consistently down on McGrath (not saying they're wrong or right), have on numerous occasions made comparisons between the two.
There's no guarantee we're gonna land a Keatts success story following McGrath if that time comes later or sooner than later. I'd be willing to make a bet that the possibility of hiring a successful coach is lower than the chances we hire another middling or dud, similar to how we went from Moss to Buzz.

Finally, I was asking for that info because we can't be that picky and choosy on what such data we handpick to use, if we are making any realistic attempt at objectivity on the matter.

We lost three players in the transition from Benny to Buzz if that helps in any way. One of them was a grad transfer, John Fields to Tennessee He transferred from ECU and only stayed on year.

Technically 4 total. Fields was the only one to transfer to another D-1 school. Lacey, Basnight, O’huaregbe “left” due to academics. Not sure they would have been academically eligible. Thus the APR issues...

Basnight graduated04-chairshot
12-09-2019 07:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawk2010 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 592
Joined: Dec 2017
Reputation: 2
I Root For: UNCW
Location:
Post: #28
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 07:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 07:16 PM)Seahawk2010 Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 06:36 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:18 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 05:13 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Not sure that's good example. Moss fired midseason, UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.

Why would that NOT be a good example. Most of the folks on here that have been consistently down on McGrath (not saying they're wrong or right), have on numerous occasions made comparisons between the two.
There's no guarantee we're gonna land a Keatts success story following McGrath if that time comes later or sooner than later. I'd be willing to make a bet that the possibility of hiring a successful coach is lower than the chances we hire another middling or dud, similar to how we went from Moss to Buzz.

Finally, I was asking for that info because we can't be that picky and choosy on what such data we handpick to use, if we are making any realistic attempt at objectivity on the matter.

We lost three players in the transition from Benny to Buzz if that helps in any way. One of them was a grad transfer, John Fields to Tennessee He transferred from ECU and only stayed on year.

Technically 4 total. Fields was the only one to transfer to another D-1 school. Lacey, Basnight, O’huaregbe “left” due to academics. Not sure they would have been academically eligible. Thus the APR issues...

Basnight graduated04-chairshot

He had 1 year left, but was declared academically ineligible before the start of Buzz’s first season. He might have graduated but it was not as a member of the basketball team.
https://www.starnewsonline.com/news/2010...t-semester
(This post was last modified: 12-09-2019 07:38 PM by Seahawk2010.)
12-09-2019 07:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
70shawk Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,828
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 27
I Root For: Claflin
Location:
Post: #29
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 05:13 PM)82hawk Wrote:  UNCW with longest search in the nation, program in turmoil including APR. Surprised anyone would stay.

Which is a huge reason why Keith Rendleman should be the next player who has his jersey retired.

Alone, his accomplishments on the court merit that recognition. But after the APR fiasco, he could have immediately transferred and played his senior year and almost any program in country would have been happy to have him for that year.

Instead, he stuck with the program when he knew what he was in for.
12-10-2019 09:25 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawkhoops Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,685
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 32
I Root For: UNCW
Location: RTP
Post: #30
RE: Interesting......
(12-09-2019 04:35 PM)82hawk Wrote:  When you have a losing program and change coaches, most likely the potential upside is greater than the potential downside, so fallout shouldn't be as bad. Kids may like a coach, but they like winning even more. When you lose a coach because he has been winning, the chance the program will take a step back is huge, that's why handing the keys to an assistant coach is such a good idea. The players already know the coach, they already know what to expect, and same for the incoming recruits. I predicted a huge fallout if we didn't briing on Siddle before we even started interviews for that exact reason. If we continue on the trajectory we are on, I can't imagine the players wouldn't welcome a change at the top. Because of the ease of transfer when a coach leaves, you may have fallout, but they may leave anyhow if you're a bottom feeder.

Never forget. DI payers come from winning programs and that is what they are used to and expect. Getting drubbed on a regular basis is not who they are or why they came to college to play basketball. Winning is everything in their lives and always has been.
The fallout was exacerbated by the way it was handled by the previous staff
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2019 09:29 AM by Seahawkhoops.)
12-10-2019 09:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jumpinmullet Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,468
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 5
I Root For: Pepperdine
Location:
Post: #31
RE: Interesting......
(12-10-2019 09:29 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-09-2019 04:35 PM)82hawk Wrote:  When you have a losing program and change coaches, most likely the potential upside is greater than the potential downside, so fallout shouldn't be as bad. Kids may like a coach, but they like winning even more. When you lose a coach because he has been winning, the chance the program will take a step back is huge, that's why handing the keys to an assistant coach is such a good idea. The players already know the coach, they already know what to expect, and same for the incoming recruits. I predicted a huge fallout if we didn't briing on Siddle before we even started interviews for that exact reason. If we continue on the trajectory we are on, I can't imagine the players wouldn't welcome a change at the top. Because of the ease of transfer when a coach leaves, you may have fallout, but they may leave anyhow if you're a bottom feeder.

Never forget. DI payers come from winning programs and that is what they are used to and expect. Getting drubbed on a regular basis is not who they are or why they came to college to play basketball. Winning is everything in their lives and always has been.
The fallout was exacerbated by the way it was handled by the previous staff
Sounds like you are putting it squarely on Bass if CB does workout? To be clear I am not in favor of making a change now.
12-10-2019 12:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
CG_Hawk06 Offline
CWO of the Board
*

Posts: 11,430
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 406
I Root For: UNCW / America
Location:
Post: #32
RE: Interesting......
I'm not in favor of a change right now either. I'd rather wait until after next year where we are in a better situation financially to make such a decision. The only exception is if there is some sort of "Can't wait, must have" coach out there that is interested in taking the job.

Personally, any new coach shouldn't be given anything longer than a 3 year deal, IMO. That way if they're especially awful a school is in better financial position after the second year to make a change or extend.

I don't understand why we'd give a first time HC a 5 year deal. Anyone with a business degree or experience in this with capability to explain that reasoning? I could understand if he had EXPERIENCE in the position and was already successful enough to warrant such a deal. I just don't understand the business logic there in handing over that kind of money and years of the program to someone without experience.
12-10-2019 12:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
82hawk Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,781
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: UN CW
Location:
Post: #33
RE: Interesting......
I don't see McGrath righting this ship. He hasn't coached or recruited in a manner that leads me to believe we will succeed this year or next year, and he hasn't proven that over the past two years either. My frustration is that we've all seen this movie before and how long it can take to climb out of a hole. 10 years can easily pass and even more without success. I'm with CG on this one contract wise, but there are also market forces involved. If that is a "standard" contract period and a good coach can go elsewhere and get it, how hard would it be to make a hire if we did soemthing less? But, if that is the standard, it reallly magnifies the importance of making the right hire with some sort of plan in place. Next go around, that needs to be THE #1 question. Why THIS coach and how does this coach fit into OUR long term vision for UNCW creating a program of consistent success?
12-10-2019 02:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawkhoops Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,685
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 32
I Root For: UNCW
Location: RTP
Post: #34
RE: Interesting......
(12-10-2019 02:47 PM)82hawk Wrote:  I don't see McGrath righting this ship. He hasn't coached or recruited in a manner that leads me to believe we will succeed this year or next year, and he hasn't proven that over the past two years either. My frustration is that we've all seen this movie before and how long it can take to climb out of a hole. 10 years can easily pass and even more without success. I'm with CG on this one contract wise, but there are also market forces involved. If that is a "standard" contract period and a good coach can go elsewhere and get it, how hard would it be to make a hire if we did soemthing less? But, if that is the standard, it reallly magnifies the importance of making the right hire with some sort of plan in place. Next go around, that needs to be THE #1 question. Why THIS coach and how does this coach fit into OUR long term vision for UNCW creating a program of consistent success?

I don't necessarily agree with the recruited statement 100%. Sure, we all think he should have gotten a few more bigs. But, he's gotten some quality kids in here. and with the right Coach, they definitely could compete.
12-10-2019 02:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
82hawk Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,781
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 53
I Root For: UN CW
Location:
Post: #35
RE: Interesting......
(12-10-2019 02:55 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-10-2019 02:47 PM)82hawk Wrote:  I don't see McGrath righting this ship. He hasn't coached or recruited in a manner that leads me to believe we will succeed this year or next year, and he hasn't proven that over the past two years either. My frustration is that we've all seen this movie before and how long it can take to climb out of a hole. 10 years can easily pass and even more without success. I'm with CG on this one contract wise, but there are also market forces involved. If that is a "standard" contract period and a good coach can go elsewhere and get it, how hard would it be to make a hire if we did soemthing less? But, if that is the standard, it reallly magnifies the importance of making the right hire with some sort of plan in place. Next go around, that needs to be THE #1 question. Why THIS coach and how does this coach fit into OUR long term vision for UNCW creating a program of consistent success?

I don't necessarily agree with the recruited statement 100%. Sure, we all think he should have gotten a few more bigs. But, he's gotten some quality kids in here. and with the right Coach, they definitely could compete.

Recruiting encompasses quality but also filling needs. McGrath has not recruited a single center out of HS. He got a grad transfer for one year and a transfer who sat a year. That's three recruiting classes. As a result, we don't have any size in the post and no backups. And we don't have any offers out to centers right now.
12-10-2019 03:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawkhoops Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,685
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 32
I Root For: UNCW
Location: RTP
Post: #36
RE: Interesting......
(12-10-2019 03:53 PM)82hawk Wrote:  
(12-10-2019 02:55 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(12-10-2019 02:47 PM)82hawk Wrote:  I don't see McGrath righting this ship. He hasn't coached or recruited in a manner that leads me to believe we will succeed this year or next year, and he hasn't proven that over the past two years either. My frustration is that we've all seen this movie before and how long it can take to climb out of a hole. 10 years can easily pass and even more without success. I'm with CG on this one contract wise, but there are also market forces involved. If that is a "standard" contract period and a good coach can go elsewhere and get it, how hard would it be to make a hire if we did soemthing less? But, if that is the standard, it reallly magnifies the importance of making the right hire with some sort of plan in place. Next go around, that needs to be THE #1 question. Why THIS coach and how does this coach fit into OUR long term vision for UNCW creating a program of consistent success?

I don't necessarily agree with the recruited statement 100%. Sure, we all think he should have gotten a few more bigs. But, he's gotten some quality kids in here. and with the right Coach, they definitely could compete.

Recruiting encompasses quality but also filling needs. McGrath has not recruited a single center out of HS. He got a grad transfer for one year and a transfer who sat a year. That's three recruiting classes. As a result, we don't have any size in the post and no backups. And we don't have any offers out to centers right now.
Again, We agree on that need. But you CAN compete at this level with limited size down low with the right coach employing the right strategies. You LOVED KK, look at his Rosters, last season here 2 guys over 6'8 one of them was Elmore. It can be done. You can't tell me he hasn't gotten some talent here.
The coaching, different story. and for his current strategy, we agree, he hasn't recruited to be able to do what he seems to want without size.
Theoretically a coach could take this roster play with a style that fits it's makeup and have better success.
(This post was last modified: 12-10-2019 04:13 PM by Seahawkhoops.)
12-10-2019 04:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
solohawks Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,445
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 378
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Wilmington, NC
Post: #37
RE: Interesting......
(12-10-2019 12:52 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I'm not in favor of a change right now either. I'd rather wait until after next year where we are in a better situation financially to make such a decision. The only exception is if there is some sort of "Can't wait, must have" coach out there that is interested in taking the job.

Personally, any new coach shouldn't be given anything longer than a 3 year deal, IMO. That way if they're especially awful a school is in better financial position after the second year to make a change or extend.

I don't understand why we'd give a first time HC a 5 year deal. Anyone with a business degree or experience in this with capability to explain that reasoning? I could understand if he had EXPERIENCE in the position and was already successful enough to warrant such a deal. I just don't understand the business logic there in handing over that kind of money and years of the program to someone without experience.

I believe 5 year deals are standard but i could be wrong

From my perspective it makes recruting harder when a brand new coach isnt even contracted a full 4 years for his initial recruits
12-10-2019 09:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Seahawkhoops Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,685
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 32
I Root For: UNCW
Location: RTP
Post: #38
RE: Interesting......
(12-10-2019 09:15 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-10-2019 12:52 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  I'm not in favor of a change right now either. I'd rather wait until after next year where we are in a better situation financially to make such a decision. The only exception is if there is some sort of "Can't wait, must have" coach out there that is interested in taking the job.

Personally, any new coach shouldn't be given anything longer than a 3 year deal, IMO. That way if they're especially awful a school is in better financial position after the second year to make a change or extend.

I don't understand why we'd give a first time HC a 5 year deal. Anyone with a business degree or experience in this with capability to explain that reasoning? I could understand if he had EXPERIENCE in the position and was already successful enough to warrant such a deal. I just don't understand the business logic there in handing over that kind of money and years of the program to someone without experience.

I believe 5 year deals are standard but i could be wrong

From my perspective it makes recruting harder when a brand new coach isnt even contracted a full 4 years for his initial recruits
I think it needs to be 4 for sure.
12-11-2019 09:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2020 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2020 MyBB Group.