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Older and Older Offline
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Thurman for HOF
Please sign the petition. https://www.change.org/p/induct-thurman-...l-of-fame?

Likely his last shot
12-07-2019 11:44 AM
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Skinny Pete Offline
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RE: Thurman for HOF
(12-07-2019 11:44 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  Please sign the petition. https://www.change.org/p/induct-thurman-...l-of-fame?

Likely his last shot
Thank you! I signed. He is my favorite ballplayer of all time.
I grew up in Jersey. In the mid-70's I would go to 20-25 games a year.
Thurman was the heart and soul of the franchise.
My God what a clutch hitter!
Very cool that my son ended up at Kent. He is in his 3rd year.
12-07-2019 07:36 PM
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RE: Thurman for HOF
(12-07-2019 07:36 PM)Skinny Pete Wrote:  
(12-07-2019 11:44 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  Please sign the petition. https://www.change.org/p/induct-thurman-...l-of-fame?

Likely his last shot
Thank you! I signed. He is my favorite ballplayer of all time.
I grew up in Jersey. In the mid-70's I would go to 20-25 games a year.
Thurman was the heart and soul of the franchise.
My God what a clutch hitter!
Very cool that my son ended up at Kent. He is in his 3rd year.

Totally agree, Glad your son is at Kent. I’m a replant also , born in the Bronx . So proud of Munson legacy at Kent and Yankees
12-08-2019 09:19 AM
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bopol Offline
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RE: Thurman for HOF
I think you can make a very strong case for Munson in the HOF. He really only played 10 years in the majors (maybe slightly less), and still ranks 16th in WAR. He won an MVP and played in 8 All-Star games. Just based on what he did in his career, I would put his at "borderline, but in". I think he has suffered from a) his career ending suddenly, so he didn't get a chance to pad his stats, b) the need of HOF voters to compare everyone's stats like they were all LFs of 1Bs and c) playing at the same time as Johnny Bench.

For a), it is likely that Munson's career wouldn't have lasted much longer. Catchers, even great catchers, are usually done by 35 and Munson wasn't the great player anymore when he passed. I think he would have continued to be a starter for a couple of more years, but I think he would have been average at this point.

For b), the baseball community is more sophicated, so they realize that catchers are different than 1B. There are 12 catchers in the HOF and Munson (and Simmons) are on the edge of those catchers. I'm not a small Hall guy (a person who thinks only super-great player like Johnny Bench should be in the Hall), so I would support both players going in.

For c), I think the comparison hurts because Johnny Bench probably was the greatest catcher of all time, but I think the ability to compare across eras have improved, so that places Munson correctly as a borderline case.

I hope he gets in. That would be really cool.
12-08-2019 12:50 PM
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Skinny Pete Offline
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RE: Thurman for HOF
(12-08-2019 12:50 PM)bopol Wrote:  I think you can make a very strong case for Munson in the HOF. He really only played 10 years in the majors (maybe slightly less), and still ranks 16th in WAR. He won an MVP and played in 8 All-Star games. Just based on what he did in his career, I would put his at "borderline, but in". I think he has suffered from a) his career ending suddenly, so he didn't get a chance to pad his stats, b) the need of HOF voters to compare everyone's stats like they were all LFs of 1Bs and c) playing at the same time as Johnny Bench.

For a), it is likely that Munson's career wouldn't have lasted much longer. Catchers, even great catchers, are usually done by 35 and Munson wasn't the great player anymore when he passed. I think he would have continued to be a starter for a couple of more years, but I think he would have been average at this point.

For b), the baseball community is more sophicated, so they realize that catchers are different than 1B. There are 12 catchers in the HOF and Munson (and Simmons) are on the edge of those catchers. I'm not a small Hall guy (a person who thinks only super-great player like Johnny Bench should be in the Hall), so I would support both players going in.

For c), I think the comparison hurts because Johnny Bench probably was the greatest catcher of all time, but I think the ability to compare across eras have improved, so that places Munson correctly as a borderline case.

I hope he gets in. That would be really cool.
Excellent points! Munson's body was beginning to break down in the Summer of 79. Ten years of catching caught up to him and there was no going back and unlike the 90's there was no " chemistry" to stop or slow the process down. I don't mean to demean Harold Baines, Mike Mussina or Ivan Rodriguez but if they are in Thurmanl should be in.
12-08-2019 01:24 PM
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Older and Older Offline
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RE: Thurman for HOF
(12-08-2019 01:24 PM)Skinny Pete Wrote:  
(12-08-2019 12:50 PM)bopol Wrote:  I think you can make a very strong case for Munson in the HOF. He really only played 10 years in the majors (maybe slightly less), and still ranks 16th in WAR. He won an MVP and played in 8 All-Star games. Just based on what he did in his career, I would put his at "borderline, but in". I think he has suffered from a) his career ending suddenly, so he didn't get a chance to pad his stats, b) the need of HOF voters to compare everyone's stats like they were all LFs of 1Bs and c) playing at the same time as Johnny Bench.

For a), it is likely that Munson's career wouldn't have lasted much longer. Catchers, even great catchers, are usually done by 35 and Munson wasn't the great player anymore when he passed. I think he would have continued to be a starter for a couple of more years, but I think he would have been average at this point.

For b), the baseball community is more sophicated, so they realize that catchers are different than 1B. There are 12 catchers in the HOF and Munson (and Simmons) are on the edge of those catchers. I'm not a small Hall guy (a person who thinks only super-great player like Johnny Bench should be in the Hall), so I would support both players going in.

For c), I think the comparison hurts because Johnny Bench probably was the greatest catcher of all time, but I think the ability to compare across eras have improved, so that places Munson correctly as a borderline case.

I hope he gets in. That would be really cool.
Excellent points! Munson's body was beginning to break down in the Summer of 79. Ten years of catching caught up to him and there was no going back and unlike the 90's there was no " chemistry" to stop or slow the process down. I don't mean to demean Harold Baines, Mike Mussina or Ivan Rodriguez but if they are in Thurmanl should be in.


Agree, All really good points. He should be in , but as we saw in now concluded voting. He didn’t make it or come close. Not sure if he gets another opportunity. Anybody know the rules?
12-14-2019 07:22 AM
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bopol Offline
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RE: Thurman for HOF
(12-14-2019 07:22 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  Agree, All really good points. He should be in , but as we saw in now concluded voting. He didn’t make it or come close. Not sure if he gets another opportunity. Anybody know the rules?

It's a three year cycle for the veterans committee to look at players from different eras. Munson's era (Modern Baseball) will be up again in 3 years.

No one quite knows how to read the committee votes because the committee (made of Hall of Famers and long-time executives) will change often. The one thing is that almost all the committee members filled their cards (they could vote for a maximum of 4) and they did induct Ted Simmons, which means that Munson's case actually improved (there are no more catchers that aren't in the Hall that are arguably better than him). I think there are players from that era that didn't get in who are clearly better than Munson (Whitaker, Evans and Tommy John), so we'll have to see how this works out.
12-14-2019 09:52 AM
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RE: Thurman for HOF
(12-14-2019 09:52 AM)bopol Wrote:  
(12-14-2019 07:22 AM)Older and Older Wrote:  Agree, All really good points. He should be in , but as we saw in now concluded voting. He didn’t make it or come close. Not sure if he gets another opportunity. Anybody know the rules?

It's a three year cycle for the veterans committee to look at players from different eras. Munson's era (Modern Baseball) will be up again in 3 years.

No one quite knows how to read the committee votes because the committee (made of Hall of Famers and long-time executives) will change often. The one thing is that almost all the committee members filled their cards (they could vote for a maximum of 4) and they did induct Ted Simmons, which means that Munson's case actually improved (there are no more catchers that aren't in the Hall that are arguably better than him). I think there are players from that era that didn't get in who are clearly better than Munson (Whitaker, Evans and Tommy John), so we'll have to see how this works out.

Thanks , good info.
12-14-2019 05:25 PM
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