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Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
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esayem Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.

Where in the contract does it say the team has to be ranked?

Nowhere.

If Virginia wins, the ACC just gets ripped on worse.
Today 12:30 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(Today 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.

Where in the contract does it say the team has to be ranked?

Nowhere.

If Virginia wins, the ACC just gets ripped on worse.

Everyone knows what the contract says. The point is, it SHOULD say that the team has to be ranked.

And again, that should be a CFP - wide rule, not just for the ACC and the Orange Bowl. If you are unranked you don't belong in an NY6 bowl - Orange, Sugar, Rose, etc.
Today 12:33 PM
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Post: #143
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 12:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(Today 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.

Where in the contract does it say the team has to be ranked?

Nowhere.

If Virginia wins, the ACC just gets ripped on worse.

Everyone knows what the contract says. The point is, it SHOULD say that the team has to be ranked.

And again, that should be a CFP - wide rule, not just for the ACC and the Orange Bowl. If you are unranked you don't belong in an NY6 bowl - Orange, Sugar, Rose, etc.

you prove it on the field, you belong
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #144
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
I’d say that having to take the G5 school once in a 3 yr cycle would be preferable to a barely ranked ACC runner up twice in a 3 yr cycle.
Today 12:35 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(Today 12:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 12:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(Today 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.

Where in the contract does it say the team has to be ranked?

Nowhere.

If Virginia wins, the ACC just gets ripped on worse.

Everyone knows what the contract says. The point is, it SHOULD say that the team has to be ranked.

And again, that should be a CFP - wide rule, not just for the ACC and the Orange Bowl. If you are unranked you don't belong in an NY6 bowl - Orange, Sugar, Rose, etc.

you prove it on the field, you belong

If you aren't ranked you obviously haven't proved anything on the field worthy of a NY6 spot.
Today 12:36 PM
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Post: #146
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.

Prior to beating Nebraska in the 1996 Big 12 ccg, 7-4 Texas was unranked. Nebraska was #3. Had Nebraska won, they would have played for the Bowl Alliance title vs. FSU, instead, Florida got a rematch with FSU. Texas was #20 when they took the Big 12's auto spot in the Fiesta Bowl. But they earned it on the field.
Today 12:46 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 11:06 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(Today 09:28 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(Today 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(Today 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(Today 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.

Once again, that's looking at everything in a vacuum.

A conference with Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and multiple flagship schools is *always* going to be a power conference. We can debate whether that conference is as valuable as the Big Ten or SEC, but at least in terms of the overall power structure of college football, the ACC is definitely a member.

So, if we grant that the ACC is a power conference and always will be with its current composition, then we need to look at the bigger picture. The value of the ACC tie-in isn't just about the specific team that the ACC sends to that bowl. Instead, the value of the ACC tie-in is also about (1) a guaranteed CFP semifinal every 3 years and (2) not having to separately bid for that CFP semifinal and a position in the New Years Six in the way that the access bowls need to do so.

The Peach Bowl, Citrus Bowl and Outback Bowl would ALL trade places with the Orange Bowl in a heartbeat. As a result, the Orange Bowl can dictate all that it wants, but the ACC could say, "F**k off, we're taking our tie-in to the Peach Bowl because they're not demanding any stipulations." THAT IS REAL AND LEGITIMATE LEVERAGE FOR THE ACC.

Then the Orange Bowl would have to enter into a separate rat race to stay within the CFP system and, even if they succeed in that rat race, get stuck with a G5 team every 3 years. From an elite bowl perspective, that is WAAAAAY worse than bringing in a very wealthy and powerful flagship University of Virginia fan base with strong ties to the political power base in Washington, DC in an "off year". UVA is a "worst case scenario" that any bowl besides the Rose and Sugar would sign up for. Once again, all of the access bowls and any bowl outside of the CFP system would trade places with the ACC in a heartbeat.

Everyone thinking that the ACC should unilaterally give up its rights are making the mistake once again that this is about a "What have you done for me lately?" meritocratic standard. That's totally wrong. This is about preserving a place in the power system, which is something that the ACC (as a power conference) grants *to* the Orange Bowl as opposed to the other way around.

Finally, I respectfully ask that everyone please stop this whole argument because you're putting me in a position of defending the ACC and that just feels wrong.

I don't think the Peach though would just automatically take the ACC. They've gotten either SEC or Florida St every single year.... Think about that.

I also think there is far less of a rat race for the 3 access bowls. The Peach, Cotton, and Fiesta are going no where...

Also, the ACC didn't exactly get an equal treatment with the Orange Bowl. The Orange demanded to get SEC/Big Ten/ND team and with the SEC/Big Ten- gave them the exact same payout for their 2nd(3rd) place team- as the ACC rep. And yet the ACC took that.

Once again, the fact that the ACC isn't worth as much as the Big Ten or SEC (which is true) is an entirely different calculation than attempting to claim that the ACC won't have locked-in power status.

The Peach Bowl has gotten stuck with 2 G5 teams since the CFP has started. It might be elitist (and I know that there's a populist strain on this forum), but the top tier bowls will take an unranked UVA every single time over *any* G5 team regardless of how they are ranked. So yes, the Peach Bowl would trade spots with the Orange Bowl in a heartbeat.

At the same time, the CFP has made it quite clear that the access bowl slots aren't assured. The CFP has already played the national championship game in Tampa and Santa Clara, which means that they consider those venues to be worthy. They'll also be playing in Indianapolis, Los Angeles and Houston in the coming years. Las Vegas has a brand new state-of-the-art venue with a basically unlimited tourism budget. Orlando effectively has an unlimited tourism budget, too. There's definitely a very purposeful continuous competition for those CFP bowl slots.

Do I *think* that the Peach, Fiesta and Cotton Bowls will lose their slots? Not necessarily, but my point is that they have to continuously hustle and prove their worth for those slots in a way that the Orange Bowl doesn't because it has the automatic ACC tie-in. It's in the interest of the CFP to create an atmosphere that the Fiesta/Peach/Cotton can't ever rest on their laurels. As a result, the ACC tie-in itself is very powerful (even if it might be considered to be worth less compared to a Big Ten or SEC tie-in) since the Orange Bowl doesn't have to worry about that continuous dog-and-pony show.

Once again, the name of the game is guarantees, guarantees, guarantees. Anyone with the ACC tie-in has a *guarantee* of a place in the CFP system. Too many people on this forum continuously underestimate the power and value of a 100% *guarantee*. 99% of the time isn't good enough. The last 1% is what separates the powerful from the powerless in college sports.
Today 12:48 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I’d say that having to take the G5 school once in a 3 yr cycle would be preferable to a barely ranked ACC runner up twice in a 3 yr cycle.

That's *definitely* not how these bowls think. If anything, the top bowl committees are the most traditional elitist people in college sports. Even the power conferences themselves will provide lip service to the spirit of competition. The top bowl committees just want brand names - they are truly rooting for laundry.
Today 12:51 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:33 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 12:30 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(Today 12:19 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(Today 10:33 AM)cubucks Wrote:  Frank the Tank mentioned it's hard to have to defend the ACC and I agree, lol. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal this year?

Because it is unprecedented that an unranked P5 team is going to play in a CFP contract bowl. That should never happen.

Heck, we've never had an unranked G5 team in an NY6 bowl, and won't again this year.

It should be against the CFP rules for any unranked team that is not a conference champ to be in an NY6 bowl. And that shouldn't be specific to the ACC, it should apply to every conference.

Where in the contract does it say the team has to be ranked?

Nowhere.

If Virginia wins, the ACC just gets ripped on worse.

Everyone knows what the contract says. The point is, it SHOULD say that the team has to be ranked.

And again, that should be a CFP - wide rule, not just for the ACC and the Orange Bowl. If you are unranked you don't belong in an NY6 bowl - Orange, Sugar, Rose, etc.

There SHOULD be a playoff where every conference champion gets a bid.

What happens in a bowl game is up to that bowl game. You don’t really have an argument, just a fan’s wish.

The Cotton Bowl sent a few unranked SWC champs to their game back in the day, it’s not unprecedented.
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natibeast21 Online
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Post: #150
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
Clemson (Owns the ACC and Alabama and Ohio State for that matter at the moment.)

The rest of ACC football is YIKES. Absolute embarrassment with the money the programs have at their disposal.

There's a reason the Orange Bowl is the worst of the NYD bowls.
(This post was last modified: Today 12:58 PM by natibeast21.)
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #151
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 10:36 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(Today 10:16 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  
(Today 08:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(Today 08:27 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(Today 07:33 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Just keep on having years like these last 2 and just see what the Orange Bowl does..

And it's not the ******* ACC's decision.... It's the Orange Bowl. If they don't want to be forced to take your 2nd place trash, they aren't going to. I could easily see something where if ND is 10 spots ahead of the ACC runner up- the Orange bowl takes ND instead of the ACC trash.
I take it you despise the ACC conference, stever20?

I don't despise them, but I think they're overrated as hell.

And I think to act like the Orange would be ok with situations like this year- I just don't see it. And yes, even though the Orange hosted the playoff last year- the ACC's 2nd team would have bearing. These next 3-4 years are huge for the ACC- otherwise it's very possible to see the Orange putting in some paramiters for them.


So don't watch the game

If you really think the Orange Bowl people are going to be upset at UVA vs. Florida, you are insane

It looks better than what the Cotton has projected, which is Utah vs. Memphis

If Utah loses to Oregon, they are going to drop more than Alabama did. Utah has ZERO top 25 wins.

Neither does Alabama.

Utah has more wins over teams with winning records than Alabama
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esayem Offline
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Post: #152
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(Today 12:58 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  Clemson (Owns the ACC and Alabama and Ohio State for that matter at the moment.)

The rest of ACC football is YIKES. Absolute embarrassment with the money the programs have at their disposal.

There's a reason the Orange Bowl is the worst of the NYD bowls.

Here’s the Mr. esayem analysis of a quite predictable “down” year.

Miami was jilted at the alter by their own, Richt, who was sort of the returning hero so that was a HUGE blow. Diaz is .... but still has the talent to lose by only 4 to vaunted Florida. Then they lose to FIU so, yeah, maybe a coaching problem.

Georgia Tech is made up of option football players and they’ve switched to a totally different offense and have struggled mightily.

Louisville has shown vast improvements under their new coach and finished better than expected.

Virginia lost a couple of clunkers to Louisville and Miami, which are still very talented teams. UVA finished atop the Coastal, where predicted.

UNC has overachieved and is bowling, contrary to most “expert” predictions.

Duke is Duke.

FSU fired their coach mid season.

Clemson is Clemson.

BC apparently had a bad year by their standards.

Syracuse was WAY overrated, as I told anybody who would listen.

Pitt is tough and they will continue to be tough. Lost by 7 to vaunted Penn State.

Virginia Tech, who knows? Didn’t have a horrible year, except that whole Duke game.

Wake overachieved and then was brought back to earth a few times.

NC State fans will tell you their team has been riddled with injuries, but maybe they just suck? No excuse there.

So what it looks like to me is the teams that were expected to be solid were overrated, while the teams expected to be bad, were underrated. Leaving us a very competitive race in the Coastal and a bloodbath in the Atlantic thanks to Dabs and his consistency.

Hopefully, the ACC keeps the consistency of the improving teams into next season and eliminates the problems at other places, which FSU and BC have done.
(This post was last modified: Today 01:27 PM by esayem.)
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