The perfect storm of awfulness happened for the ACC as all possible 7+ win replacements for the Orange Bowl are or will be coming off a loss.

Assuming Clemson demolishes UVA and no other ACC team ends up ranked i have a simple yet radical proposal.

I believe it would be in everyone's best interest to allow Notre Dame to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl. This is especially true if the Big 10 is the opponent and the Citrus Bowl opens up. Simply swap Notre Dame and UVA bowl bids. This would allow UVA as the 2nd best ACC team to get a nice constellation prize with a new year's day bowl in Florida while doing a solid for a CFP bowl partner.

Give Notre Dame the money they would have been paid for going to the Citrus Bowl or Camping World Bowl but allow them to play in the NY6 Orange Bowl.

No one wants to see UVA in the Orange Bowl and if Clemson beats them this is the best outcome

That's actually a good idea

I fully anticipate that when the CFP is up for its next cycle that the OB will not unconditionally take the next best ACC team and that They will want the option to take ND instead. The ACC has zero depth at the top and until they can start yielding a decent #2 the OB is going to be a joke.

It was a down year for the ACC, but this on-going rhetoric of "awful" is going too far. Many ACC teams started the season with a loss thanks to playing conference games in the first couple of weeks in support of the launch of the ACC Network. Meanwhile, teams in other conferences were getting fat off of cupcake wins. So when conference play began in earnest, those teams had zero or one loss and were ranked. Now that the season is over and everyone has played their full conference schedule, the picture is a bit different...

P5 Teams with 8-4 record or better:
ACC (4): Clemson, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest
Big XII (4): Oklahoma, Baylor, Oklahoma St, Kansas St
Big Ten (7): Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana
Pac-12 (3): Oregon, Utah, USC
SEC (5): Georgia, Florida, LSU, Alabama, Auburn
Independent (1): Notre Dame

Total P5 teams with fewer than 5 losses: 24

source: https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2019/...12119.html

The Big Ten has great depth this year, but the rest are about equal in terms of depth (not trying to compare Auburn to Wake Forest here, but the NUMBER of teams is comparable in every P5 league not named Big Ten). Would I have liked to see more 10-win teams in the ACC? SURE! But 9-3 and 8-4 isn't exactly trash...

I know this gets old, but if Notre Dame wants to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl, they can join the ACC as a full member.

Though I like solohawks' idea, I agree with Hokie Mark. The ACC was not terrible this year. It was VERY mediocre. But the league can bounce back.

(12-01-2019 08:27 AM)goofus Wrote:  I know this gets old, but if Notre Dame wants to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl, they can join the ACC as a full member.

Yep

(12-01-2019 08:27 AM)goofus Wrote:  I know this gets old, but if Notre Dame wants to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl, they can join the ACC as a full member.

Was about to post the same thing.

(12-01-2019 08:27 AM)goofus Wrote:  I know this gets old, but if Notre Dame wants to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl, they can join the ACC as a full member.

That's one way to do it, but there are other ways. Solohawk's is one way, another would be:

1) ND can supplant the ACC team in the OB, so long as it is not the ACC champion, and ND is ranked higher than all non-champ ACC teams.

2) If ND plays in the OB in place of the ACC team, the money goes in to the general ACC pot like it does when an ACC team plays in the game. ND does not get to keep it all for itself, it gets an equal share of what other ACC teams get.

This is actually how it works for other bowls in the ACC hierarchy. E.g., if ND plays in the Camping World Bowl, an ACC bowl, it doesn't keep that money, rather its Camping World money goes into the general ACC bowl pot to be split, with Notre Dame getting an equal share.

(12-01-2019 04:34 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  That's actually a good idea

Its a stupid idea for the ACC to give up the exposure to Notre Dame.

It could have been a lot worse. UVA and VT both won consistently at the end of the year. They could have had a 7-5 champ.

This thread is stupid on many levels and just represents the anti-ACC bias on this board

UVA hasn't even lost the game yet

The ACC has only lost 1 Orange Bowl in the last 10 years. You don't just knee-jerk react and change the structure of the game over 1 year

If ND wants in, join the conference

(12-01-2019 07:21 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I fully anticipate that when the CFP is up for its next cycle that the OB will not unconditionally take the next best ACC team and that They will want the option to take ND instead. The ACC has zero depth at the top and until they can start yielding a decent #2 the OB is going to be a joke.

That would seemingly knock the ACC out of the P5, which in reality is the A5, meaning their champion or their proxy (in years when the champion makes the CFP) is guaranteed a spot in a NY6 bowl.

USFFan

Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

(12-01-2019 10:25 AM)EvilVodka Wrote:  This thread is stupid on many levels and just represents the anti-ACC bias on this board.

If Clemson was playing FSU next week, and everyone on the board was saying Clemson was going to win by 30, would that be "anti-FSU bias"?

No, because factually, Clemson would likely win by 30. Likewise, there is no "anti-ACC" bias on this board. The ACC has been lousy so far this year and people have said so, which is perfectly fair. Heck, the Massey Computers now have the ACC less than *one computer point* ahead of the AAC. They are 9 points behind the next-closest P5.

The ACC is single-handedly fulfilling Aresco's dream of a "P6", at least on the field.

And the smart posters aren't talking about "overturning the Orange Bowl structure" entirely, just tweeking it to account for absurd situations like this.

And let's face it, it *is* an absurd situation. I seriously doubt that when the OB and ACC made their deal, that it was ever contemplated that the ACC would have no ranked teams available. And it is bad for the major bowl to have to take an unranked team.

(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

(12-01-2019 08:27 AM)goofus Wrote:  I know this gets old, but if Notre Dame wants to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl, they can join the ACC as a full member.

ND doesn't want to represent the ACC in the Orange Bowl, nor does football want to join.

(I love how a random person posts something outlandish like this, then others use this fiction to bash ND for being independent)

This speculation about the Orange Bowl isn't coming from any ND person.

The most likely destination for ND is the Camping World Bowl.

4-14

That’s the ACC’s record in OOC P5 games. That’s a worse win percentage than what the MWC and the AAC had against the P5. Defenders of the ACC isn’t that bad narrative please try to explain how this is not mediocrity.

(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

I thought records don’t matter to bowls. Only that they care if the P5 schools fills the stadium. If records matter then no bowl should be tied to a conference, so the AAC or Sunbelt team with a better record so take an OB spot.

I don’t think OB cares about records. The Rose Bowl had its share of less than stellar records for its teams but didn’t care.

(12-01-2019 10:54 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

I thought records don’t matter to bowls. Only that they care if the P5 schools fills the stadium. If records matter then no bowl should be tied to a conference, so the AAC or Sunbelt team with a better record so take an OB spot.

I don’t think OB cares about records. The Rose Bowl had its share of less than stellar records for its teams but didn’t care.

They care about ratings and maintaining title sponsorship. Both are more likely with compelling/worthy opponents. I'm not so sure that Virginia vs. anybody qualifies. If this is a one year anomaly, it won't be a big deal. Here are the pre-bowl AP rankings of the ACC's representative in non-CFP Orange Bowls for the last decade...

2017 - #11 Miami
2016 - #10 FSU
2014 - #10 Georgia Tech
2013 - #12 Clemson
2012 - #13 FSU
2011 - #22 Clemson
2010 - #10 Virginia Tech

The odds are great that this year's representative will be unranked. If that's a 1 off, NBD (though you have to admit that it's not awesome that they haven't sent a single digit representative in a decade). That said, Miami, FSU and Clemson are all national names enough to draw in semi-casual fans. Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech may not have quite that same national appeal, but they've had plenty of success. Virginia isn't in that category.

If, however, we're sitting here next year staring at an unranked or ranked in the 20's Pitt or Duke, things are going to get a little uncomfortable...

USFFan

(12-01-2019 10:54 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

I thought records don’t matter to bowls. Only that they care if the P5 schools fills the stadium. If records matter then no bowl should be tied to a conference, so the AAC or Sunbelt team with a better record so take an OB spot.

I don’t think OB cares about records. The Rose Bowl had its share of less than stellar records for its teams but didn’t care.

I agree the OB probably doesn't care much about records, but if you think they want to host Virginia over Notre Dame and several other P5 teams, well ....

I mean, because the Cotton Bowl is the ONLY bowl with an at-large bid, the SEC and B1G are only going to get a total of 5 teams in the entire NY6.

Assuming those teams are LSU (CFP), Georgia (Sugar), Ohio State (CFP), Wisconsin (Rose) and Penn State (Orange) that means that teams like Florida, Auburn, and even Alabama are going to non-NY6 bowls!

Do you think the Orange would rather match Penn State vs Alabama or Penn State vs Florida or Penn State vs Notre Dame or Penn State vs Auburn or ..... Penn State vs Virginia?