(12-04-2019 04:47 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What makes people think that UVa will not be able to sell OB tickets? Part of bowl travel and sales today is the end location and the bowl fatigue of the fan base. The UVa alums I know are about piss all over themselves to go to Miami. They just want to get out of Charlotte in one piece. The other side of the stadium will be easily filled with either Florida or Penn State. This is foolish.

Since you asked:



When the AD has to beg fans to buy tickets, it's not a good look.

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

(12-05-2019 11:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 04:47 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What makes people think that UVa will not be able to sell OB tickets? Part of bowl travel and sales today is the end location and the bowl fatigue of the fan base. The UVa alums I know are about piss all over themselves to go to Miami. They just want to get out of Charlotte in one piece. The other side of the stadium will be easily filled with either Florida or Penn State. This is foolish.

Since you asked:

.....

When the AD has to beg fans to buy tickets, it's not a good look.

What's funniest about this announcement is ... it isn't even true. With the way contracts are done these days, everything is locked in. If Virginia finishes in the top 4, they go to the playoff bowl. If they win the ACC but don't finish top 4, they go to the Orange Bowl or another NY6 bowl regardless of how many fans they bring, if they finish 7-5 they will go to one of a couple of second-tier bowls in the ACC hierarchy regardless of how many fans they bring, etc.

Fan support really only matters these days to 6-6 G5 floaters, like the MAC and CUSA teams this year where the conference has fewer bowl slots than eligible teams. Then you get Eastern Michigan fans arguing with UL - Monroe fans about who is more likely to get that last spot in the Bojangles Spicy Nuggets Bowl because they travel better.

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

But you were so all-fired upset that the poor Orange Bowl has to take Virginia, a team from the conference they signed a contract with, why is there no concern about a storied bowl like the Cotton Bowl being forced to take a G5 team?

Because it's just yet another chance for you and others to take a shot at the ACC.

(12-05-2019 12:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

But you were so all-fired upset that the poor Orange Bowl has to take Virginia, a team from the conference they signed a contract with, why is there no concern about a storied bowl like the Cotton Bowl being forced to take a G5 team?

Because it's just yet another chance for you and others to take a shot at the ACC.

Are you kidding? I've said many times before that the Access Bowls treat the G5 team like the Hot Potato that nobody wants. No doubt, the Cotton Bowl would much rather have Notre Dame this year than Memphis or whoever the G5 team will be as well.

It just wasn't relevant to mention that in *this* thread, as this thread is about the Orange Bowl.

(12-05-2019 12:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

But you were so all-fired upset that the poor Orange Bowl has to take Virginia, a team from the conference they signed a contract with, why is there no concern about a storied bowl like the Cotton Bowl being forced to take a G5 team?

Because it's just yet another chance for you and others to take a shot at the ACC.

In general, Quo is not hostile to the ACC (though plenty of others are!). He just had a crazy idea involving Notre Dame (even ACC fans have been guilty of that!).

For the record, unless/until Notre Dame joins the ACC as a full football member...
...they will NOT be participating in the ACC championship game
...they will NOT be taking the ACC's slot in the Orange Bowl

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

But if the ACC keeps on providing unranked teams to the Orange Bowl, there could easily be a change by the Orange Bowl on their selecting process, protecting them in case of an unranked ACC non champion. The ACC doesn't hold all the leverage here at all...

(12-05-2019 12:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

But if the ACC keeps on providing unranked teams to the Orange Bowl, there could easily be a change by the Orange Bowl on their selecting process, protecting them in case of an unranked ACC non champion. The ACC doesn't hold all the leverage here at all...

Yes. Obviously, Hokie is correct that (a) the ACC will never have any interest in doing what we are suggesting, and (b) since the contract is in place until 2025, nothing will change before then.

But as you say, if this UVA situation becomes more than a one-shot aberration, the Orange Bowl likely will bargain to change the terms in the next contract, and like you, I think they might have the leverage to do it.

(12-05-2019 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 12:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

But if the ACC keeps on providing unranked teams to the Orange Bowl, there could easily be a change by the Orange Bowl on their selecting process, protecting them in case of an unranked ACC non champion. The ACC doesn't hold all the leverage here at all...

Yes. Obviously, Hokie is correct that (a) the ACC will never have any interest in doing what we are suggesting, and (b) since the contract is in place until 2025, nothing will change before then.

But as you say, if this UVA situation becomes more than a one-shot aberration, the Orange Bowl likely will bargain to change the terms in the next contract, and like you, I think they might have the leverage to do it.

Hope the Orange Bowl enjoys slumming with the G5, because I feel sure the peach would be more than happy to take the ACC rep regardless just so they weren't stuck with the G5 rep every three years.

(12-05-2019 12:15 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 12:12 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 12:10 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

But if the ACC keeps on providing unranked teams to the Orange Bowl, there could easily be a change by the Orange Bowl on their selecting process, protecting them in case of an unranked ACC non champion. The ACC doesn't hold all the leverage here at all...

Yes. Obviously, Hokie is correct that (a) the ACC will never have any interest in doing what we are suggesting, and (b) since the contract is in place until 2025, nothing will change before then.

But as you say, if this UVA situation becomes more than a one-shot aberration, the Orange Bowl likely will bargain to change the terms in the next contract, and like you, I think they might have the leverage to do it.

Hope the Orange Bowl enjoys slumming with the G5, because I feel sure the peach would be more than happy to take the ACC rep regardless just so they weren't stuck with the G5 rep every three years.

Considering the Peach has gotten a SEC team in 4 of the 5 years they've had it- I think they actually are pretty happy. And could easily be 5 of 6 years. And the 1 miss, they got Florida St- a big win for them.

I think these next 3-4 years are going to be important for the ACC to rebound. Or they go into the next round of negotations in the exact same place as they were this round.

(12-05-2019 11:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Since you asked:

...

When the AD has to beg fans to buy tickets, it's not a good look.

The AD isn't begging to buy tickets there. The AD is begging to buy tickets FROM UVA. The problem is the secondary market on the Orange Bowl -- which is roughly half of all seats in the stadium -- is less than the jacked up prices the Orange Bowl demands of the schools. I experienced the same problem in 2014 when I went to the Orange Bowl. A ticket from the GTAA with no guarantee of location of seating due to final seating being determined by Alexander-Tharpe Fund points was $160/ea. On the secondary market I could (and did) purchase club level seating for $120/ea. I don't know how it is at the other NY6 bowls, but at the Orange Bowl the participating schools get screwed on pricing.

(12-05-2019 02:29 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Since you asked:

...

When the AD has to beg fans to buy tickets, it's not a good look.

The AD isn't begging to buy tickets there. The AD is begging to buy tickets FROM UVA. The problem is the secondary market on the Orange Bowl -- which is roughly half of all seats in the stadium -- is less than the jacked up prices the Orange Bowl demands of the schools. I experienced the same problem in 2014 when I went to the Orange Bowl. A ticket from the GTAA with no guarantee of location of seating due to final seating being determined by Alexander-Tharpe Fund points was $160/ea. On the secondary market I could (and did) purchase club level seating for $120/ea. I don't know how it is at the other NY6 bowls, but at the Orange Bowl the participating schools get screwed on pricing.

It's every other NY6 bowl, and most bowls for that matter.

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

It's not about there ever being a "desire" by the ACC to share that spot. If the rest of the ACC doesn't get their act together once the contract runs out the Orange Bowl/Peach Bowl/whatever may very well insist they have the option to pick ND under certain situations. It's not like the ACC holds all the leverage here. From a purely ticket sales and national perception perspective getting like the 3rd choice from the B1G or SEC would probably be better for them than any non-Clemson ACC team, and with this dumb system they could conceivably "contract" with whoever they want.

(12-05-2019 11:39 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-04-2019 04:47 PM)Statefan Wrote:  What makes people think that UVa will not be able to sell OB tickets? Part of bowl travel and sales today is the end location and the bowl fatigue of the fan base. The UVa alums I know are about piss all over themselves to go to Miami. They just want to get out of Charlotte in one piece. The other side of the stadium will be easily filled with either Florida or Penn State. This is foolish.

Since you asked:



When the AD has to beg fans to buy tickets, it's not a good look.

No the issue is that you get better seats from online resales instead of what you get through your schools distribution.

(12-01-2019 01:46 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 01:34 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 12:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 11:37 AM)solohawks Wrote:  This proposal was only my suggestion to allow the ACC to avoid the discomfort of having an unranked UVA team take an Orange Bowl slot, should they lose to Clemson as expected.

No one beneifts from having UVA in the Orange Bowl and by allowing UVA and Notre Dame to basically swap bowl slots, the money stays the same to all parties and the ACC's premier bowl partner is protected

The 14 full members of the ACC benefit.

Do they?

I would argue the 14 full members of the ACC Benefit more by having a happy Orange Bowl partner than by forcing the Orange bowl to take a unranked team coming off a loss.

Again, we are talking 1 year here

It can't be any worse than when the Orange had to take NIU

Last year the Orange had a playoff. The two years before that they got homegrown Florida teams vs. Big 10 teams

It can be worse. At least, the TV ratings can be worse. And the attendance can be worse.

(12-05-2019 02:55 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

It's not about there ever being a "desire" by the ACC to share that spot. If the rest of the ACC doesn't get their act together once the contract runs out the Orange Bowl/Peach Bowl/whatever may very well insist they have the option to pick ND under certain situations. It's not like the ACC holds all the leverage here. From a purely ticket sales and national perception perspective getting like the 3rd choice from the B1G or SEC would probably be better for them than any non-Clemson ACC team, and with this dumb system they could conceivably "contract" with whoever they want.

Ok, I see where you're going with this... Sure, if ACC football continued to be a one-team show for many years, it will be in a weak position when the CFP is renegotiated. But that's the same with every conference. If they never have more than one ranked team they will have a hard time, too.

(12-05-2019 05:40 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 02:55 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

It's not about there ever being a "desire" by the ACC to share that spot. If the rest of the ACC doesn't get their act together once the contract runs out the Orange Bowl/Peach Bowl/whatever may very well insist they have the option to pick ND under certain situations. It's not like the ACC holds all the leverage here. From a purely ticket sales and national perception perspective getting like the 3rd choice from the B1G or SEC would probably be better for them than any non-Clemson ACC team, and with this dumb system they could conceivably "contract" with whoever they want.

Ok, I see where you're going with this... Sure, if ACC football continued to be a one-team show for many years, it will be in a weak position when the CFP is renegotiated. But that's the same with every conference. If they never have more than one ranked team they will have a hard time, too.

The problem for the ACC is that they are one of really only 2 conferences that get close to this- and the other one is the Pac 12 and they aren't losing the Rose Bowl.... I mean lets get real- the Big Ten, SEC, and really even Big 12 aren't going to have only 1 ranked team.

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

Agreed.....and it is not happening, so this whole thread is pointless.

(12-05-2019 07:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:41 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-05-2019 11:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-02-2019 08:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Rest assured the Orange Bowl much prefers being "stuck" with UVA from the ACC than they would be getting forced to take the G5 rep every couple of years.

They would, but also rest assured they'd rather be able to take Notre Dame than any ACC team not named Clemson or Florida State (and arguably they'd take them over Florida State). The ACC absolutely should not willingly allow ND to have that spot, but it wouldn't stun me if the next contract negotiation they insist on having the ability to select ND under circumstances.

That's the thing - nobody is suggesting the Orange would rather take G5 teams. But as you note, they sure would rather have say #15 Notre Dame playing Florida in this year's OB than unranked UVA.

That's the comparison being made.

If Notre Dame were a football member of the ACC, they would be playing Clemson instead of UVA this Saturday night AND would be guaranteed a spot in the Orange Bowl themselves... but they are NOT football members and until/unless that happens there will never be any desire by the ACC to share that bowl spot.

Agreed.....and it is not happening, so this whole thread is pointless.

Not for 6 more years. But after that- I think it's very much fair game... The ACC needs to have much better years than this(and stop with the depth crap)…..