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Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
Clemson is awesome. The rest of the ACC had a really down year.
12-01-2019 06:31 PM
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Go College Sports Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
Obviously the ACC is very poor this year, but the Orange Bowl signed a contract with the league. It's not much of a deal for the ACC if the Orange Bowl is only willing to take its programs when there isn't a better option out there.
12-01-2019 07:09 PM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-01-2019 07:21 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I fully anticipate that when the CFP is up for its next cycle that the OB will not unconditionally take the next best ACC team and that They will want the option to take ND instead. The ACC has zero depth at the top and until they can start yielding a decent #2 the OB is going to be a joke.

The Orange Bowl doesn’t care about where teams are ranked. That’s not what bowl games are about. Bowl games are for tourism. They want teams that will bring people to fill up hotel rooms, eat in restaurants, shop in stores etc.

How many tickets the participating programs buy are more important than the records of the teams.
12-01-2019 07:47 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

In 2016 Auburn represented the SEC in the Sugar Bowl. Auburn went into the game with an 8-4 record and lost by double digits. Does that mean the SEC shouldn't get an automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl because sometimes they might have to send a team with only 8 wins? (Note: Virginia already has 9 wins this year).
01-wingedeagle
12-02-2019 11:15 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Exclamation RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-01-2019 11:06 AM)usffan Wrote:  They [the Orange Bowl committee] care about ratings and maintaining title sponsorship... Here are the pre-bowl AP rankings of the ACC's representative in non-CFP Orange Bowls for the last decade...

2017 - #11 Miami LOST (Att 65,326)
2016 - #10 FSU WON (Att 67,432)
2014 - #10 Georgia Tech WON (Att 58,211)
2013 - #12 Clemson WON (Att 72,080)
2012 - #13 FSU WON (Att 72,073)
2011 - #22 Clemson LOST (Att 67,563)
2010 - #10 Virginia Tech LOST (Att 65,453)

The odds are great that this year's representative will be unranked. If that's a 1 off, NBD (though you have to admit that it's not awesome that they haven't sent a single digit representative in a decade). That said, Miami, FSU and Clemson are all national names enough to draw in semi-casual fans. Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech may not have quite that same national appeal, but they've had plenty of success. Virginia isn't in that category.

If, however, we're sitting here next year staring at an unranked or ranked in the 20's Pitt or Duke, things are going to get a little uncomfortable...

USFFan

I've added who won and the attendance reported above. Rated seating capacity of Hard Rock Stadium: 64,767. Gives some idea as to which teams drew fan interest. Too busy to look up TV ratings right now.
12-02-2019 11:27 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 11:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

In 2016 Auburn represented the SEC in the Sugar Bowl. Auburn went into the game with an 8-4 record and lost by double digits. Does that mean the SEC shouldn't get an automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl because sometimes they might have to send a team with only 8 wins? (Note: Virginia already has 9 wins this year).
01-wingedeagle

03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 11:32 AM by quo vadis.)
12-02-2019 11:31 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

In 2016 Auburn represented the SEC in the Sugar Bowl. Auburn went into the game with an 8-4 record and lost by double digits. Does that mean the SEC shouldn't get an automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl because sometimes they might have to send a team with only 8 wins? (Note: Virginia already has 9 wins this year).
01-wingedeagle

03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.

So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact. If it offends you so much that your precious SEC has to play Virginia don't watch the game. Just do us all a favor and quit crying like a little girl about it. It's unbecoming.
12-02-2019 11:39 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:33 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Nothing wrong with a 9-4 Virginia in the Orange Bowl.

Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

In 2016 Auburn represented the SEC in the Sugar Bowl. Auburn went into the game with an 8-4 record and lost by double digits. Does that mean the SEC shouldn't get an automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl because sometimes they might have to send a team with only 8 wins? (Note: Virginia already has 9 wins this year).
01-wingedeagle

03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.

So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3
12-02-2019 11:42 AM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 11:27 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 11:06 AM)usffan Wrote:  They [the Orange Bowl committee] care about ratings and maintaining title sponsorship... Here are the pre-bowl AP rankings of the ACC's representative in non-CFP Orange Bowls for the last decade...

2017 - #11 Miami LOST (Att 65,326)
2016 - #10 FSU WON (Att 67,432)
2014 - #10 Georgia Tech WON (Att 58,211)
2013 - #12 Clemson WON (Att 72,080)
2012 - #13 FSU WON (Att 72,073)
2011 - #22 Clemson LOST (Att 67,563)
2010 - #10 Virginia Tech LOST (Att 65,453)

The odds are great that this year's representative will be unranked. If that's a 1 off, NBD (though you have to admit that it's not awesome that they haven't sent a single digit representative in a decade). That said, Miami, FSU and Clemson are all national names enough to draw in semi-casual fans. Georgia Tech and Virginia Tech may not have quite that same national appeal, but they've had plenty of success. Virginia isn't in that category.

If, however, we're sitting here next year staring at an unranked or ranked in the 20's Pitt or Duke, things are going to get a little uncomfortable...

USFFan

I've added who won and the attendance reported above. Rated seating capacity of Hard Rock Stadium: 64,767. Gives some idea as to which teams drew fan interest. Too busy to look up TV ratings right now.

Smirk. Because reported attendance is ALWAYS accurate, and the excuse of the lower ranked team winning a bowl game because the higher ranked team wasn't motivated doesn't happen a dozen times a year...

USFFan
12-02-2019 11:43 AM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:39 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Virginia is #32 in the Massey rankings. That puts them behind *Louisiana-Lafayette* for crissakes.

And this is before they get routed by Clemson.

It is stupid for them to be in the Orange Bowl *right now*, much less after Clemson wallops them.

In 2016 Auburn represented the SEC in the Sugar Bowl. Auburn went into the game with an 8-4 record and lost by double digits. Does that mean the SEC shouldn't get an automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl because sometimes they might have to send a team with only 8 wins? (Note: Virginia already has 9 wins this year).
01-wingedeagle

03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.

So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all
12-02-2019 12:10 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:15 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  In 2016 Auburn represented the SEC in the Sugar Bowl. Auburn went into the game with an 8-4 record and lost by double digits. Does that mean the SEC shouldn't get an automatic bid to the Sugar Bowl because sometimes they might have to send a team with only 8 wins? (Note: Virginia already has 9 wins this year).
01-wingedeagle

03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.

So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).
12-02-2019 01:26 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 01:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.

So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).

FWIW, the money issue is addressed in some of these proposals, e.g., Notre Dame can take the place of the ACC team if higher-ranked, but the $27.5m goes in to the ACC pot the same as if an ACC team was playing, and split equally.

No question, this situation exists because of a contract the OB signed with the ACC, and signed contracts presumptively reflect the will of the parties involved. I just wonder if the OB thought of this situation when they signed, a situation in which there are no ranked ACC teams for the game. Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 01:59 PM by quo vadis.)
12-02-2019 01:54 PM
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solohawks Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 01:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:31 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  03-lmfao

Auburn played the #9 schedule in the country that year. They were #15 in the MC before losing to Oklahoma, #21 in the final MC. UVA has lost 3 games vs a terrible schedule. Their SOS is #70 in Sagarin, that's G5 level. UVA is #30 in the MC, before they get walloped by Clemson, LOL.

And Auburn was ranked #14 in the CFP, that's why they got the Sugar Bowl bid. Blame the CFP if you like. There were other SEC teams available - Florida was #17, LSU #20, Tennessee #21.

The ACC and UVA are in an abjectly unique situation with the Orange Bowl. The G5 team, Memphis, is far more worthy of an NY6 spot than is Virginia.

And the sad thing is, once UVA gets walloped by Clemson, they will *still* be the best available choice for the Orange Bowl.

So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).
As i stated in my original post, the ACC would still be paid as if UVA went to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame would still be paid as if they went to the Citrus/Camping World Bowl

The only thing changing would be UVA and Notre Dame swapping bowl slots to help out the ACC premier bowl partner the Orange Bowl from a crappy matchup with an unranked team
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 02:37 PM by solohawks.)
12-02-2019 02:36 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
So Ohio State blowing out the entire Big Ten doesn’t matter? Wisconsin doesn’t deserve a NY6 more than any other team when they’ve already been worked by 30 points. Let’s see if Ohio State will hang 60 on them on Saturday. Michigan got embarrassed and they’re probably going to the Citrus or some other high paying contract bowl.

If you haven’t watched UVA, please do. They’re quite fun to watch.
12-02-2019 02:43 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 01:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).
As i stated in my original post, the ACC would still be paid as if UVA went to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame would still be paid as if they went to the Citrus/Camping World Bowl

The only thing changing would be UVA and Notre Dame swapping bowl slots to help out the ACC premier bowl partner the Orange Bowl from a crappy matchup with an unranked team

Even if you could make the money even, what can the Orange Bowl provide to the ACC on the upside when they have exceptionally great years? Why is the onus on the ACC to "help out" the Orange Bowl in a down year when the Orange Bowl can't provide any corresponding incentive to the ACC in a particularly great year?

The contract bowls are about mitigating risk year-to-year. The Orange Bowl signed the contract with the ACC because without such contract, it could get sent to the access bowl pool where it would have to deal with (God forbid!) having to take G5 schools like NIU again or, even worse, the non-CFP bowl lineup where it can't have access to the semifinal games.

That's the real quid pro quo here: the contract with the ACC guarantees that the Orange Bowl has that status without having to continuously prove itself to the powers that be (unlike the Peach, Fiesta and Cotton Bowls that could be swapped out at any given moment by a more attractive competing bowl offer). As a result, the Orange Bowl will gladly take teams like Virginia (just as the Rose Bowl had an unranked Wisconsin team a few years ago) because the long game is preserving that long-term relationship with the ACC. At the end of the day, it's the ACC that gives the Orange Bowl power as opposed to the other way around. The last thing that the Orange Bowl wants is to see, say, the Peach Bowl get the ACC's contract bowl tie-in when the next CFP contract gets signed because the Orange Bowl was short-sighted in being willing to dump UVA in a particular season. A lot of people are totally misreading which party has the most leverage here - it's the ACC that has the power in this relationship.
12-02-2019 03:03 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 03:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 01:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).
As i stated in my original post, the ACC would still be paid as if UVA went to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame would still be paid as if they went to the Citrus/Camping World Bowl

The only thing changing would be UVA and Notre Dame swapping bowl slots to help out the ACC premier bowl partner the Orange Bowl from a crappy matchup with an unranked team

Even if you could make the money even, what can the Orange Bowl provide to the ACC on the upside when they have exceptionally great years? Why is the onus on the ACC to "help out" the Orange Bowl in a down year when the Orange Bowl can't provide any corresponding incentive to the ACC in a particularly great year?

The contract bowls are about mitigating risk year-to-year. The Orange Bowl signed the contract with the ACC because without such contract, it could get sent to the access bowl pool where it would have to deal with (God forbid!) having to take G5 schools like NIU again or, even worse, the non-CFP bowl lineup where it can't have access to the semifinal games.

That's the real quid pro quo here: the contract with the ACC guarantees that the Orange Bowl has that status without having to continuously prove itself to the powers that be (unlike the Peach, Fiesta and Cotton Bowls that could be swapped out at any given moment by a more attractive competing bowl offer). As a result, the Orange Bowl will gladly take teams like Virginia (just as the Rose Bowl had an unranked Wisconsin team a few years ago) because the long game is preserving that long-term relationship with the ACC. At the end of the day, it's the ACC that gives the Orange Bowl power as opposed to the other way around. The last thing that the Orange Bowl wants is to see, say, the Peach Bowl get the ACC's contract bowl tie-in when the next CFP contract gets signed because the Orange Bowl was short-sighted in being willing to dump UVA in a particular season. A lot of people are totally misreading which party has the most leverage here - it's the ACC that has the power in this relationship.

The ACC needs to keep the Orange Bowl happy. Whats to prevent the Orange Bowl from dumping the ACC tie in next round of contracts? The Orange Bowl would be fine taking the next two highest ranked after the playoffs and Sugar/Rose tieins get filled and would probably pay more than the others to avoid a G5. Keeping a crucial partner satisfied is the onus as is maintianing the long term relationship.

Yes the ACC could move their tiein to the Peach, but would the Peach pay as much as the Orange Bowl does? The Orange Bowl already pays less than the Sugar and Rose. Come next contract that money could be reduced or the gap worsened the bowl partner is not happy.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 03:38 PM by solohawks.)
12-02-2019 03:37 PM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 01:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:39 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  So DON'T. WATCH. THE. ORANGE. BOWL.

No matter how much you ***** and whine Virginia is going to the Orange Bowl. None of your anti-ACC biased BS is going to change that fact.

03-lmfao

I have zero bias against the ACC, i frequently defend the ACC around here and have a soft spot for it actually. But in this case, the Orange Bowl is stuck with a rotten apple, so it makes sense to discuss alternatives going forward.

Maybe you think your whining and moaning about things on this board make a difference in the real world - but nobody else does.

07-coffee3

Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).
As i stated in my original post, the ACC would still be paid as if UVA went to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame would still be paid as if they went to the Citrus/Camping World Bowl

The only thing changing would be UVA and Notre Dame swapping bowl slots to help out the ACC premier bowl partner the Orange Bowl from a crappy matchup with an unranked team



Sorry, but this is a dumb idea.

And this is coming from a Notre Dame fan.

This is Virginia's best season in...forever......and you want them to "swap" down to a lesser bowl?

What the hell?

What is in it for Virginia?

All that this idea would do is stir up more bad feelings towards Notre Dame...and for what?

A bowl game? No sale.
12-02-2019 04:24 PM
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orangefan Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-02-2019 03:37 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 03:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 02:36 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 01:26 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 12:10 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Exactly.

Just throwing out an idea for the ACC to help a business partner is a less than ideal situation for all

When "helping a business partner" means giving up a $27.5 million payout from the Orange Bowl that's shared between all members of the ACC, then that makes zero sense from the ACC. It's not as if though the Orange Bowl can provide a corresponding upside to the ACC if the ACC has a particularly deep and great year, so why would the ACC provide relief on the downside? These bowls are called "Contract Bowls" for a reason - they're filled by contract as opposed to pure merit.

In fact, the entire reason why the ACC and other P5 conferences *want* contract bowls are *exactly* for situations like this year with the ACC. The P5 leagues don't need the contract bowls when they have multiple schools in the top 10. Instead, the most valuable aspect of the contract bowls for the P5 conferences is that they guarantee money and access for them in a *down* year. Otherwise, the bowls are of no value to the P5 conferences. In turn, that is why the bowls agree to take mediocre P5 champs if necessary since they know that the P5 leagues could kill off the bowls entirely if they wanted to do so (with the ability to move the playoff system outside of the bowls).
As i stated in my original post, the ACC would still be paid as if UVA went to the Orange Bowl and Notre Dame would still be paid as if they went to the Citrus/Camping World Bowl

The only thing changing would be UVA and Notre Dame swapping bowl slots to help out the ACC premier bowl partner the Orange Bowl from a crappy matchup with an unranked team

Even if you could make the money even, what can the Orange Bowl provide to the ACC on the upside when they have exceptionally great years? Why is the onus on the ACC to "help out" the Orange Bowl in a down year when the Orange Bowl can't provide any corresponding incentive to the ACC in a particularly great year?

The contract bowls are about mitigating risk year-to-year. The Orange Bowl signed the contract with the ACC because without such contract, it could get sent to the access bowl pool where it would have to deal with (God forbid!) having to take G5 schools like NIU again or, even worse, the non-CFP bowl lineup where it can't have access to the semifinal games.

That's the real quid pro quo here: the contract with the ACC guarantees that the Orange Bowl has that status without having to continuously prove itself to the powers that be (unlike the Peach, Fiesta and Cotton Bowls that could be swapped out at any given moment by a more attractive competing bowl offer). As a result, the Orange Bowl will gladly take teams like Virginia (just as the Rose Bowl had an unranked Wisconsin team a few years ago) because the long game is preserving that long-term relationship with the ACC. At the end of the day, it's the ACC that gives the Orange Bowl power as opposed to the other way around. The last thing that the Orange Bowl wants is to see, say, the Peach Bowl get the ACC's contract bowl tie-in when the next CFP contract gets signed because the Orange Bowl was short-sighted in being willing to dump UVA in a particular season. A lot of people are totally misreading which party has the most leverage here - it's the ACC that has the power in this relationship.

The ACC needs to keep the Orange Bowl happy. Whats to prevent the Orange Bowl from dumping the ACC tie in next round of contracts? The Orange Bowl would be fine taking the next two highest ranked after the playoffs and Sugar/Rose tieins get filled and would probably pay more than the others to avoid a G5. Keeping a crucial partner satisfied is the onus as is maintianing the long term relationship.

Yes the ACC could move their tiein to the Peach, but would the Peach pay as much as the Orange Bowl does? The Orange Bowl already pays less than the Sugar and Rose. Come next contract that money could be reduced or the gap worsened the bowl partner is not happy.

Ultimately, it's ESPN that makes the call on how much the contract bowls will pay. FWIW, though, the Orange Bowl has done slightly better in non playoff years than the Sugar, which has a substantially higher payout ($80 million vs. $55 million/year). The non playoff Orange has averaged 10.7 million viewers vs. 10.6 million for the Sugar.
12-02-2019 04:25 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
I have a better solution - 16 team playoff
12-02-2019 04:29 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Orange Bowl in a bad spot - Recommended Solution
(12-01-2019 08:01 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  It was a down year for the ACC, but this on-going rhetoric of "awful" is going too far. Many ACC teams started the season with a loss thanks to playing conference games in the first couple of weeks in support of the launch of the ACC Network. Meanwhile, teams in other conferences were getting fat off of cupcake wins. So when conference play began in earnest, those teams had zero or one loss and were ranked. Now that the season is over and everyone has played their full conference schedule, the picture is a bit different...

P5 Teams with 8-4 record or better:
ACC (4): Clemson, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest
Big XII (4): Oklahoma, Baylor, Oklahoma St, Kansas St
Big Ten (7): Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana
Pac-12 (3): Oregon, Utah, USC
SEC (5): Georgia, Florida, LSU, Alabama, Auburn
Independent (1): Notre Dame

Total P5 teams with fewer than 5 losses: 24

source: https://accfootballrx.blogspot.com/2019/...12119.html

The Big Ten has great depth this year, but the rest are about equal in terms of depth (not trying to compare Auburn to Wake Forest here, but the NUMBER of teams is comparable in every P5 league not named Big Ten). Would I have liked to see more 10-win teams in the ACC? SURE! But 9-3 and 8-4 isn't exactly trash...

Make 9-3 or better the parameters and watch just how different the rest become. You should have majored in propaganda. I've never seen a poster anywhere that finagles the numbers any better than you do in the effort to make their conference look better by comparison.

At 9-3 it breaks down like this:
ACC (2): Clemson 12-0, Virginia 9-3 / Total wins among the top two 21
B12 (2): Oklahoma 11-1, Baylor 11-1 / Total wins among the top two 22
PAC (2): Utah 11-1, Oregon 10-2 / Total wins among the top two 21
SEC (5): L.S.U. 12-0, Georgia 11-1, Florida 10-2, Alabama 10-2, Auburn 9-3 / total wins among the top two 23
B1G (6): Ohio State 12-0, Penn State 10-2, Wisconsin 10-2, Minnesota 10-2, Michigan 9-3, Iowa 9-3 / total wins among the top two 22

This breakdown shows the division in strength between the conferences. Of course lowering the bar makes it look more equal.

Of course if you make the criteria 10-2 or better it breaks down again:
ACC (1)
Bi12 (2)
PAC (2)
SEC (4)
B1G (4)

And for purposes of discussing the Orange Bowl this is where the rubber meets the road. Since Clemson will be in the CFP that leaves the Orange Bowl sucking wind!
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 05:04 PM by JRsec.)
12-02-2019 04:32 PM
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