(12-01-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, neither were spectacular in Dana's offense. Despite having a fairly crappy day on the turnover front, Tune scored 41 points against a solid Navy defense in his last game. Lets keep in mind Tune has about one full season of experience as a starter at this point. In his third season as a starter, King's last game vs Tulane saw him completing just 44% of his passes and scoring 31 points (including just 3 points in the entire second half). The truth is, King's performances were trending the wrong way after 4 games. So, unless King has a much better hadle on the offense next year---it wouldnt shock me if Tune won the starting position in 2020 (providing King is even here then).

we realize king can run? and he wasnt just passing!...

here is this "horrible" tulane game .




his passing took a hit this season (he was coming off injury) but adding his rushing stats , he was still balling like an elite qb

there is ZERO percent chance tune beats out king...
its obvious by how we called the game...we tried to kill clock with tune..he went full speed with king...
holgs just 2 weeks ago said we have the best scout team in the nation, based around king and eyabi..

if kings comes back..there wont even be a competiton

also final note: adding the games tune played this year and last year...him and king have played roughly the smae amount of games at QB...king might have 2 or 3 more (king also only has a little over 1 full season at qb)

(12-01-2019 04:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 04:44 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  I dont know if he leaves or not but why would he follow Briles? because he coached him for 1-year? So did holgorsen....

Maybe because he was one of the top QB's in college football in the Briles system and he was roughly on a par with Tune in Dana's offense.

Dana isn't known for having bad QB's. The team just sucked this year. Regardless, we will be fine next year with or without king. I hope he stays because with him, there is a decent chance we make it to the championship game.

(12-01-2019 05:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 04:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 04:44 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  I dont know if he leaves or not but why would he follow Briles? because he coached him for 1-year? So did holgorsen....

Maybe because he was one of the top QB's in college football in the Briles system and he was roughly on a par with Tune in Dana's offense.

roughly on par???
king has more tds than tune this season....king only played 4 games

and there is zero percent chance he goes to FSU....lsu, georgia, oklahoma (basically every elite team, that needs a qb).. if he decides to transfer
why would he go to a rebuilding school? king was good before briles, i doubt he think he can only be good with briles

King passed for 6 TD's in 4 games. Tune passed for 11 TD's (almost exactly twice as many in twice as many games). The completion percentage for King is 52.7%. Tune's completion percentage was 59.2%. King had 663 passing yards. Tune had 1,533 in twice as many games. King was better at taking care of the ball---but he's also more experienced. Look--no doubt that King's the better athlete---but in 2019---that didnt translate into much difference in performance. The reality is they performed about the same in the Dana's system. It is what it is.

Will King return? Who knows? He has to graduate first for transferring to make any sense at all. Thus, I wouldnt expect him to say a word about transferring until May IF that is indeed his plan.

(12-01-2019 05:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 05:01 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 04:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 04:44 PM)AirRaid Wrote:  I dont know if he leaves or not but why would he follow Briles? because he coached him for 1-year? So did holgorsen....

Maybe because he was one of the top QB's in college football in the Briles system and he was roughly on a par with Tune in Dana's offense.

roughly on par???
king has more tds than tune this season....king only played 4 games

and there is zero percent chance he goes to FSU....lsu, georgia, oklahoma (basically every elite team, that needs a qb).. if he decides to transfer
why would he go to a rebuilding school? king was good before briles, i doubt he think he can only be good with briles

King passed for 6 TD's in 4 games. Tune passed for 11 TD's (almost exactly twice as many in twice as many games). The completion percentage for King is 52.7%. Tune's completion percentage was 59.2%. King had 663 passing yards. Tune had 1,533 in twice as many games. King was better at taking care of the ball---but he's also more experienced. Look--no doubt that King's the better athlete---but in 2020---that didnt translate into much difference in performance. The reality is they performed about the same in the Dana's system. It is what it is.

yards are yards....thats like trying to discredit lamar jackson because he ran...

no they didnt perfrom at the same level..remove whatever bias and saying that makes no sense..

king had more tds than tune...in half the games.. why are you removing rushing stats?????
not sure the bias you have...

(12-01-2019 05:08 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, neither were spectacular in Dana's offense. Despite having a fairly crappy day on the turnover front, Tune scored 41 points against a solid Navy defense in his last game. Lets keep in mind Tune has about one full season of experience as a starter at this point. In his third season as a starter, King's last game vs Tulane saw him completing just 44% of his passes and scoring 31 points (including just 3 points in the entire second half). The truth is, King's performances were trending the wrong way after 4 games. So, unless King has a much better hadle on the offense next year---it wouldnt shock me if Tune won the starting position in 2020 (providing King is even here then).

we realize king can run? and he wasnt just passing!...

here is this "horrible" tulane game .




his passing took a hit this season (he was coming off injury) but adding his rushing stats , he was still balling like an elite qb

there is ZERO percent chance tune beats out king...
its obvious by how we called the game...we tried to kill clock with tune..he went full speed with king...
holgs just 2 weeks ago said we have the best scout team in the nation, based around king and eyabi..

if kings comes back..there wont even be a competiton

also final note: adding the games tune played this year and last year...him and king have played roughly the smae amount of games at QB...king might have 2 or 3 more (king also only has a little over 1 full season at qb)

We were 1-3 when he red shirted. The primary reason we were 1-3 is precisely because he was not "balling" like a an elite QB. He couldnt throw the ball accurately---and that was early in the year when we still had something that resembled an FBS offensive line. I cant imagine what he would have looked like behind an OL starting 4 freshman. This reminds me of earlier in the year when I tried to tell you that we had a 3-4 win team and you told me I was crazy.

I like that King can run, but keep in mind that Tune literally couldnt run at all for several games....plus Im fine getting the running yards by handing off. The most important thing a QB has to do is deliver the ball to receivers....so, yes---Im weighting that more heavily. Tune also didnt actually start 8 games. He sat out one game injured and had another game where he only came in on certain plays due to injury. Another of those 8 games was just late game mop up duty. Id have to go back and look, but I think he just started 5 games.

As for bias--I have none. I dont care who starts. I just said it wouldnt surprise me if Tune beat King out. That said---the fall off in Kings accuracy this year was so strange that it makes be suspicious that there was an injury they were hiding. If we get 2018 King---then I agree there is no competition. But 2019 King performance vs 2019 Tune performance isnt that different.

(12-01-2019 05:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 05:08 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 05:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Frankly, neither were spectacular in Dana's offense. Despite having a fairly crappy day on the turnover front, Tune scored 41 points against a solid Navy defense in his last game. Lets keep in mind Tune has about one full season of experience as a starter at this point. In his third season as a starter, King's last game vs Tulane saw him completing just 44% of his passes and scoring 31 points (including just 3 points in the entire second half). The truth is, King's performances were trending the wrong way after 4 games. So, unless King has a much better hadle on the offense next year---it wouldnt shock me if Tune won the starting position in 2020 (providing King is even here then).

we realize king can run? and he wasnt just passing!...

here is this "horrible" tulane game .




his passing took a hit this season (he was coming off injury) but adding his rushing stats , he was still balling like an elite qb

there is ZERO percent chance tune beats out king...
its obvious by how we called the game...we tried to kill clock with tune..he went full speed with king...
holgs just 2 weeks ago said we have the best scout team in the nation, based around king and eyabi..

if kings comes back..there wont even be a competiton

also final note: adding the games tune played this year and last year...him and king have played roughly the smae amount of games at QB...king might have 2 or 3 more (king also only has a little over 1 full season at qb)

We were 1-3 when he red shirted. The primary reason we were 1-3 is precisely because he was not "balling" like a an elite QB. He couldnt throw the ball accurately---and that was early in the year when we still had something that resembled an FBS offensive line. I cant imagine what he would have looked like behind an OL starting 4 freshman. This reminds me of earlier in the year when I tried to tell you that we had a 3-4 win team and you told me I was crazy.

there was some obvious dust when king returned from last year and both him and tune sputtered their first few games under holgorsen's offense. but as the games went on tune got better and more comfortable and no doubt king would have done the same. there is no comparison king is just the better athlete as he is more dynamic and you have to take into account his ability to run the ball that alone would have been the difference maker in many of the games.

if king isn't the starter next year i would think so much less of holgorsen as it was his idea to get him to red shirt his year after he set the fbs world on fire. the guy was a Heisman candidate for crying out load.

not to mention tune actually got to play with an improved defense while king played with no resemblance of a defense whatsoever last year and every game we won (8) was because of him

(12-01-2019 05:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  We were 1-3 when he red shirted. The primary reason we were 1-3 is precisely because he was not "balling" like a an elite QB. He couldnt throw the ball accurately---and that was early in the year when we still had something that resembled an FBS offensive line. I cant imagine what he would have looked like behind an OL starting 4 freshman. This reminds me of earlier in the year when I tried to tell you that we had a 3-4 win team and you told me I was crazy.

I like that he can run, but keep in mind that Tune literally couldnt run at all for several games. He also didnt actually start 8 games. He sat out one game injured and had another game where he only came in on certain plays due to injury. Another game was just mop up duty. Id have to go back and look, but I think he just started 5 games.

your are making so MANY excuses for tune..SO MANY!!!

the "few" games tune has played but ignoring kings is in similar situation, ..BIAS

noting early season advantages (to discount king) but ignoring late season advantages...BIAS
-- we completely switched offense and defensive schemes..tune played with a more experienced unit in holgs system
-- king played 2 p5 Dline--we are an undersized league..
-- "that resembled an FBS offensive line"..so are you saying the oline that we will play most of next year as starter (except braylon) isnt fbs level????

---------

i called you crazy when you said we wouldnt make a bowl when king was still playing..that is still nuts to think.. (your pessimism started before king redshirted)

AFTER king was redshirted.. i said 6-7 is still possible..that smu and navy are game we could win...but i never called you crazy for saying 3-4 at that point but that it was possible to reach a bowl and to have faith and surprised you were so pessimistic

-----

there is ZERO percent chance tune starts over king...holgs quotes have made that obvious....holgs play calling has made that obvious....
king had way more Total TDs per game than tune..way more total yards per game than tune...way less turnovers per game than tune

their permanence wasnt the same by any measure..... unless you want to remove details

(12-01-2019 05:54 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 05:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  We were 1-3 when he red shirted. The primary reason we were 1-3 is precisely because he was not "balling" like a an elite QB. He couldnt throw the ball accurately---and that was early in the year when we still had something that resembled an FBS offensive line. I cant imagine what he would have looked like behind an OL starting 4 freshman. This reminds me of earlier in the year when I tried to tell you that we had a 3-4 win team and you told me I was crazy.

I like that he can run, but keep in mind that Tune literally couldnt run at all for several games. He also didnt actually start 8 games. He sat out one game injured and had another game where he only came in on certain plays due to injury. Another game was just mop up duty. Id have to go back and look, but I think he just started 5 games.

your are making so MANY excuses for tune..SO MANY!!!

the "few" games tune has played but ignoring kings is in similar situation, ..BIAS

noting early season advantages (to discount king) but ignoring late season advantages...BIAS
-- we completely switched offense and defensive schemes..tune played with a more experienced unit in holgs system
-- king played 2 p5 Dline--we are an undersized league..
-- "that resembled an FBS offensive line"..so are you saying the oline that we will play most of next year as starter (except braylon) isnt fbs level????

---------

i called you crazy when you said we wouldnt make a bowl when king was still playing..that is still nuts to think.. (your pessimism started before king redshirted)

AFTER king was injured .. i said 6-7 is still possible..that smu and navy are game we could win...but i never called you crazy for saying 3-4 at that point but that it was possible to reach a bowl and to have faith and surprised you were so pessimistic

-----


there is ZERO percent chance tune starts over king...holgs quotes have made that obvious....holgs play calling has made that obvious....
king had way more Total TDs per game than tune..way more total yards per game than tune...way less turnovers per game than tune

their permanence wasnt the same by any measure..... unless you want to remove details

Its difficult to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is so poorly informed. Its bias to correct you when your trying to say Tune started 8 games when he clearly did not? Its bias becasue the offense at the end of the season was so much better? lol...Seriously? Against Tulsa we started an OL that included 4 freshman and one Jr. In other words---only one guy on the OL that started that game was even in the 2-deep that began the season. Dana even said in the after game press conference that the 5 guys that started made up 5 of the SIX total OL's who were even dressed for the game. He said the plan was to use a DL if we had more than one OL injury during the game. Thats where we were by the end of the season and you think Tune had an advantage? Good Lord.

Furthermore, Ive already stated I dont care who starts next year. You're the only one with a clear bias. I just want the best guy in camp next fall to start. If thats King---Im good with that. If its Tune---Im good with that as well. All Ive said on the subject was that it wouldnt surprise me if Tune won that battle.

(12-01-2019 06:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its difficult to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is so poorly informed. Against Tulsa we started and OL that included 4 freshman and one Jr.

Only one guy on the OL that started that game was even in the 2-deep that began the season. Dana even said in the after game press conference that the 5 guys that started made up 5 of the SIX total OL's who were even dressed for the game. He said the plan was to use a DL if we had more than one OL injury during the game. Thats where we were by the end of the season and you think Tune had an advantage? Dude---you need to get a grip.

Furthermore, Ive already stated I dont care who starts next year. You're the only one with a clear bias. I just want the best guy in camp next fall to start. If thats King---Im good with that. If its Tune---Im good with that as well.

no one is denying we lost alot of OLine, but everyone but braylon wasnt coming back..we started the season with 4 Senior OLine and lost all 4 for different reasons

and im aware we had no depth at OLine...dana has complained about the depth...but at the same time he has praised the play of those who have played...
stating you don't have backups doesn't mean the starters are bad...

looking at the recruiting class so far and who we are targeting...add braylon to the mix and its pretty much the same for next yeat....we are likely to add juco and freshman as depth

4 of the 5 that started the last few game will start next year ...are you saying they dont resemble fbs oline?

(12-01-2019 06:10 PM)pesik Wrote:  

(12-01-2019 06:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Its difficult to have a reasonable conversation with someone who is so poorly informed. Against Tulsa we started and OL that included 4 freshman and one Jr.

Only one guy on the OL that started that game was even in the 2-deep that began the season. Dana even said in the after game press conference that the 5 guys that started made up 5 of the SIX total OL's who were even dressed for the game. He said the plan was to use a DL if we had more than one OL injury during the game. Thats where we were by the end of the season and you think Tune had an advantage? Dude---you need to get a grip.

Furthermore, Ive already stated I dont care who starts next year. You're the only one with a clear bias. I just want the best guy in camp next fall to start. If thats King---Im good with that. If its Tune---Im good with that as well.

no one is denying we lost alot of OLine, but everyone but braylon wasnt coming back..we started the season with 4 Senior OLine and lost all 4 for different reasons

and im aware we had no depth at OLine...dana has complained about the depth...but at the same time he has praised the play of those who have played...
stating you don't have backups doesn't mean the starters are bad...

looking at the recruiting class so far and who we are targeting...add braylon to the mix and its pretty much the same for next yeat....we are likely to add juco and freshman as depth

4 of the 5 that started the last few game will start next year ...are you saying they dont resemble fbs oline?

Not this year..no. FBS schools do not routinely start freshman on the OL--so, by definition its not really an FBS quality OL. Off the top of my head I know Boatman, Pancotti, and Murphy should be returning. Assuming all are healthy---thats probably your OL core for next year. I suspect we might see as many as 4-5 JC OL's in 2020. I dont see how we proceed without at least 3. Hopefuly any freshman OL's playing right now that were not able to RS this year wont play in more than 4 games next year so they can get a red shirt. We wont have much upper class OL depth next year---but at least the guys we have will be a year older, a little stronger, and have some experience.

Replay on ESPNU to get erryone hype for BYU-Navy.