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For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #41
RE: For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
(12-02-2019 05:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 04:42 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  I just don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about it.

The school are ripping off their fans and their media partners.

They are also playing a team with far less talent and possibly creating more chances for injury because of the size and speed difference.

Again, its one thing for a mediocre program to do it. But why can't Alabama do what Ohio St. does and play in state FBS programs like South Alabama, Troy and UAB? They would destroy them as well.


But slap a FBS label on UMass, Kent, NMSU and all is well, right?

Most fans couldn't tell you whether UMass or Kent are FBS or FCS. They are buying the tickets to see the conference schedule and the one Premium (if that) P5 OOC game.


The real rip off the is the mandatory donations on top of the ticket prices to get season tickets.
12-02-2019 05:28 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #42
RE: For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
(12-02-2019 05:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 04:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 03:35 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 06:17 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 09:26 AM)bullet Wrote:  The Big 10 banned them, but I think they backed off that because the cost of FBS games has gone from 700-800k up to 1 million and sometimes 1.2 or 1.4 million while FCS has stayed 300-500k.

Right, the money is the issue and always will be as long as FBS teams are permitted to count a game vs. an FCS team in the standings. That's why only a rule change could stop it.

Arizona State paid Kent State $1.5 million to play in Tempe this season. Probably at least a million dollars more than ASU paid Sacramento State to play in Tempe. It's not even close to being worth the extra million dollars.

The economics of paying over a million for a buy game are so poor, it's almost surprising that teams haven't pushed to permit 2 FCS games a year to count in the standings.

That's definitely a huge reason. For my alma mater of Illinois, the cost of bringing in a G5 school for a guarantee game is probably 3 times as much compared to playing a local FCS school like Illinois State, Eastern Illinois, etc., yet the attendance may actually be better for the local FCS school games. The game day revenue at a place like Ohio State or Michigan might make those G5 guarantee payouts negligible, but most schools aren't in that type of financial position.

Also, there was an assumption (hope?) from the Big Ten that eliminating FCS games would provide an advantage in the CFP rankings. That clearly hasn't been the case - the CFP committee has made it abundantly clear that they simply don't care. They haven't given any more credit to wins over G5 opponents than to FCS opponents. Alabama's formula of 1 name brand non-conference opponent (typically at a neutral site) plus 3 patsies (including always having an FCS opponent) has been shown over and over again that it's perfectly acceptable to the CFP committee. As a result, the Big Ten was competitively and financially handcuffing themselves for an assumption that didn't turn out to be true. Hence, the Big Ten backed off.

Frankly, you raise a good point in your last sentence. We are honestly more likely to see 2 FCS games allowed to count per season as opposed to an elimination of those games. Call me crazy, but easier games that are also more profitable seem to be ripe for *expansion* as opposed to contraction.

Continuing on the ASU example, going back at least a decade, their is little or no attendance difference at Sun Devil Stadium between FCS teams and G5 teams (especially the UTSA/Kent States of the world). NAU has generally been an exception, but you would expect that with half the roster from Phoenix area High Schools, and most alums living in the Phoenix area.

Only P5's seem to draw casual fans to go. Michigan State, Illinois, etc draw good crowds.

How about New Mexico, Colorado St., Air Force, Utah St., UNLV, San Diego St. or Fresno St.? When you bring in a school from halfway across the country nobody in the area has heard of (except maybe in a Neil Young song), you can't expect much interest.

Data points:
2017 NMSU - 46K. SDSU 54K Both are equidistant from Tempe.

2016 NAU 45K Texas Tech: 44K

2015 Cal Poly (FCS) 46K New Mexico 43K

2008 NAU 63K, UNLV 60K (Georgia 71K)

2007 SDSU and SJSU - 54K each, lowest home attendance of the season

2003 NAU 60K Utah State 51 K

2001 SDSU 54K, SJSU 45K, ULL 38K


That is all in 20 years.

SDSU maybe a little bump. The rest, nothing.
12-02-2019 05:40 PM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #43
RE: For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
My biggest problem with the FCS games is that there are too few games among the top teams and top conferences...especially when college football uses a beauty pageant to determine its national championship qualifiers - you need more inter-conference games to make the beauty pageant judging reasonable.

If you were to replace FCS payday home games with more SEC v. B12 and B1G v. PAC 12 matchups, it would be a wonderful improvement for college football.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 07:17 PM by YNot.)
12-02-2019 07:16 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #44
RE: For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
(12-02-2019 07:16 PM)YNot Wrote:  My biggest problem with the FCS games is that there are too few games among the top teams and top conferences...especially when college football uses a beauty pageant to determine its national championship qualifiers - you need more inter-conference games to make the beauty pageant judging reasonable.

If you were to replace FCS payday home games with more SEC v. B12 and B1G v. PAC 12 matchups, it would be a wonderful improvement for college football.

It would be. But good luck getting Alabama to play an away game

Alabama OOC away from Bryant-Denny:

2019 - vs Duke in ATL
2018 - vs Louisville in ORL
2017 - vs Florida State in ATL
2016 - vs USC in JerryWorld
2015 - vs Wisconsin in JerryWorld
2014 - vs West Virginia in ATL
2013 - vs Virginia Tech in ATL
2012 - vs Michigan in JerryWorld
2011 - AT Penn State
2010 - AT Duke
2009 - vs Virginia Tech in ATL
2008 - vs Clemson in ATL
2007 - vs Florida State in JAX
Nick Saban Hired
2006 - NONE
2005 - NONE
2004 - NONE
2003 - NONE (Birmingham is a home game, IMHO
2002 - AT Oklahoma (L), AT Hawaii
2001 - NONE
2000 - AT UCLA (L)


No true Road Games OOC since 2011. Only 5 this century. None of the "Neutral Site" games other than FSU in Jacksonville favored the opposing team.
12-02-2019 07:58 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #45
RE: For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
(12-02-2019 07:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  But good luck getting Alabama to play an away game

...

No true Road Games OOC since 2011. Only 5 this century. None of the "Neutral Site" games other than FSU in Jacksonville favored the opposing team.

The Tide now has several P5 non-con road games scheduled -- one in every even year from 2022 through 2034, plus one in 2025 -- though it's very possible that Saban will retire before any of them are played.
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/alabama/
12-02-2019 08:32 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #46
RE: For Big Ten & Big 12 fans, Re: why FCS opponents
(12-02-2019 08:32 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 07:58 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  But good luck getting Alabama to play an away game

...

No true Road Games OOC since 2011. Only 5 this century. None of the "Neutral Site" games other than FSU in Jacksonville favored the opposing team.

The Tide now has several P5 non-con road games scheduled -- one in every even year from 2022 through 2034, plus one in 2025 -- though it's very possible that Saban will retire before any of them are played.
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa/alabama/

Hard to see Saban still coaching in 5 years.

Good to see some actual home and homes with P5 teams, including a Northern team.

Also an @USF in 2023. Wonder how many will be switched to neutral site "Kick off Classics"
12-02-2019 08:59 PM
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