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Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(12-03-2019 07:40 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  During the last round of realignment, I was one of the few RU fans who favored pursuing the ACC over the B10. It was for purely selfish reasons. Most of the original BE was in the ACC and all but the Fla schools are within a twelve hour drive of NJ. After taking Spit and Cuse, the ACC should have completed the move to 16 by grabbing Rutgers and either UConn or Temple. That would have locked up the East coast and blocked the BIG out of the major Northeastern metros.

Rutgers and West Virginia to the ACC in 2013 would have been ideal.

I don't think either UConn or Temple were ready in 2013.
12-03-2019 08:45 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(12-03-2019 08:45 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(12-03-2019 07:40 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  During the last round of realignment, I was one of the few RU fans who favored pursuing the ACC over the B10. It was for purely selfish reasons. Most of the original BE was in the ACC and all but the Fla schools are within a twelve hour drive of NJ. After taking Spit and Cuse, the ACC should have completed the move to 16 by grabbing Rutgers and either UConn or Temple. That would have locked up the East coast and blocked the BIG out of the major Northeastern metros.

Rutgers and West Virginia to the ACC in 2013 would have been ideal.

I don't think either UConn or Temple were ready in 2013.

I can't see how Temple would get the support when the ACC is stocked full of the schools who ran them out of the Big East those years ago.

For either Rutgers and Maryland, personally, this move is successful if their respective enrollment profiles expand into the midwest. As much as I'd like to see Penn State in the ACC, it's not like Penn State needs to be in a conference with those many ACC member states; PSU has historically drawn well from them, and still does. The school definitely got some new blood saddling up with the Big Ten. Same goes for Rutgers and Maryland...in some way, there's nothing other than some traditional rivalries keeping them with some of these schools, but, if you're facing some issues, maybe you need to think bigger than your current spot.

Does Big Ten membership change the minds of local kids who took a walk from Rutgers or Maryland? Especially if those kids went to Penn State or another Big Ten school instead? Does it bring in more apps from kids out of the region? THAT is the real get.

Ironically, as awesome as it is to have Nebraska in the Big Ten, I think they sold themselves short joining it, especially after getting booted from the AAU. They already drew from the Big Ten member states. They should have went west to the PAC.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2019 05:07 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
12-04-2019 05:03 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(12-03-2019 08:45 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  
(12-03-2019 07:40 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  During the last round of realignment, I was one of the few RU fans who favored pursuing the ACC over the B10. It was for purely selfish reasons. Most of the original BE was in the ACC and all but the Fla schools are within a twelve hour drive of NJ. After taking Spit and Cuse, the ACC should have completed the move to 16 by grabbing Rutgers and either UConn or Temple. That would have locked up the East coast and blocked the BIG out of the major Northeastern metros.

Rutgers and West Virginia to the ACC in 2013 would have been ideal.

I don't think either UConn or Temple were ready in 2013.

The ACC would never take Temple. They would take Villanova first and let their FCS FB program move up before they would take Temple. 07-coffee3
12-04-2019 07:20 AM
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panite Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.
That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

Yes it is like winning he lottery. Rather than taking half the money up front, Rutgers is going for the annual annuity payout. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana COGS COGS 04-cheers
12-04-2019 07:25 AM
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 02:00 PM)usffan Wrote:  Honestly, even if Rutgers athletics never wins a B1G title, this was a great move on their part.

USFFan

Rutgers athletics had two national champions last year actually.

The program overall is doing pretty well, outside of football, which should start turning around under Schiano. Lacrosse and Wrestling are national powerhouses, women's basketball is an annual tourney contender, men's basketball is expected to finally make it back this year. Football will get there eventually now that the administration finally was pressured into investing into the outdated facilities, hire a good coach in Schiano (and actually willing to pay a decent salary for him), pay for a private jet, and actually pay for assistants. The administration wanted B1G money without B1G commitment, and the people finally had enough of it.
12-04-2019 02:37 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
This is one of quo's best posts

Very interesting about Rutgers
12-04-2019 09:27 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(12-04-2019 07:25 AM)panite Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.
That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

Yes it is like winning he lottery. Rather than taking half the money up front, Rutgers is going for the annual annuity payout. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana COGS COGS 04-cheers

Cool, can't wait until 2030. Any chance people stay in the stands or show up by then?

Honestly, that's the part that's the most concerning; that bad cocktail of fan apathy/disinterest in losing football, not much of a winning history in the sport, and operating in the red. Keep borrowing against future payouts, and when does Rutgers ever truly collect? Will they ever, or, will a fraction just be good enough?
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panite Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(Yesterday 04:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-04-2019 07:25 AM)panite Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.
That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

Yes it is like winning he lottery. Rather than taking half the money up front, Rutgers is going for the annual annuity payout. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana COGS COGS 04-cheers

Cool, can't wait until 2030. Any chance people stay in the stands or show up by then?

Honestly, that's the part that's the most concerning; that bad cocktail of fan apathy/disinterest in losing football, not much of a winning history in the sport, and operating in the red. Keep borrowing against future payouts, and when does Rutgers ever truly collect? Will they ever, or, will a fraction just be good enough?

Rutgers fans are no different from fans at most other schools. They show up when the team wins and don't show up when the team loses. I was at the South Carolina - Clemson game over Thanksgiving. The stadium holds 90k. The Carolina fans were pouring out of the stadium by half time leaving only the Clemson orange faithful in the stands because the beat down was on already. Doesn't matter whether your B-10, ACC, B-12, Pac-12, or SEC. When your team isn't winning the fans walk out early if your losing to beat the traffic out of the parking lot or they just don't show up at all. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot COGS COGS 04-cheers
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 09:25 AM by panite.)
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(Yesterday 04:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-04-2019 07:25 AM)panite Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

Yes it is like winning he lottery. Rather than taking half the money up front, Rutgers is going for the annual annuity payout. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana COGS COGS 04-cheers

Cool, can't wait until 2030. Any chance people stay in the stands or show up by then?

Honestly, that's the part that's the most concerning; that bad cocktail of fan apathy/disinterest in losing football, not much of a winning history in the sport, and operating in the red. Keep borrowing against future payouts, and when does Rutgers ever truly collect? Will they ever, or, will a fraction just be good enough?

Rutgers brought back Schiano under the pressure of basically the entire state of NJ's residents + politicians. They not only hired him but gave him a nice budget for assistants, private jet to recruit with, and future funding for facilities upgrades. The fans are juiced and will start showing up now because Rutgers was finally forced to stop cheaping out on the football program. Chris Ash was basically universally hated by the fans for his apathy as a coach and high school coaches didn't like him either due to his lack of effort and communication skills in the recruiting scene, while the opposite is the case for Schiano, who not only is a great recruiter but charismatic and a proven and far better coach. Rutgers football will be fine and will be competing again before we all know it.
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(Yesterday 10:49 AM)AntiG Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-04-2019 07:25 AM)panite Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

Yes it is like winning he lottery. Rather than taking half the money up front, Rutgers is going for the annual annuity payout. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana COGS COGS 04-cheers

Cool, can't wait until 2030. Any chance people stay in the stands or show up by then?

Honestly, that's the part that's the most concerning; that bad cocktail of fan apathy/disinterest in losing football, not much of a winning history in the sport, and operating in the red. Keep borrowing against future payouts, and when does Rutgers ever truly collect? Will they ever, or, will a fraction just be good enough?

Rutgers brought back Schiano under the pressure of basically the entire state of NJ's residents + politicians. They not only hired him but gave him a nice budget for assistants, private jet to recruit with, and future funding for facilities upgrades. The fans are juiced and will start showing up now because Rutgers was finally forced to stop cheaping out on the football program. Chris Ash was basically universally hated by the fans for his apathy as a coach and high school coaches didn't like him either due to his lack of effort and communication skills in the recruiting scene, while the opposite is the case for Schiano, who not only is a great recruiter but charismatic and a proven and far better coach. Rutgers football will be fine and will be competing again before we all know it.

I think bringing back Schiano is, on paper, a mistake. I don't see any evidence of coaching success since he left 8 years ago, and this is the B1G, not Big East.

But sometimes, things that seem dead on paper come alive in practice. If the Rutgers community believes in him and is excited, that kind of energy can flow in a lot directions and result in success on the field.

Good luck.
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YNot Online
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Post: #51
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
Schiano and Rutgers need to focus their on-field philosophy, game planning, personnel and recruiting on beating Syracuse, Temple and Boston College (non-conference games the next 3 years) and Indiana, Maryland, Illinois, Purdue, and Northwestern. Shorten the games with boring ball-control and just stay healthy against everyone else, especially when they play Ohio State ('20) and Michigan ('21) in September.

If Rutgers could actually win some OOC games and compete with the low-level B1G teams, they have a shot at bowl eligibility, despite the brutal B1G East schedule. Rutgers could really gain some momentum if they reach a couple of bowl games leading into the time frame where they actually start cashing in on the $40M+ payouts. Then, they will have something upon which to build when they have the resources to try to actually compete in the B1G.
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(Yesterday 09:24 AM)panite Wrote:  
(Yesterday 04:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(12-04-2019 07:25 AM)panite Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

Yes it is like winning he lottery. Rather than taking half the money up front, Rutgers is going for the annual annuity payout. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana COGS COGS 04-cheers

Cool, can't wait until 2030. Any chance people stay in the stands or show up by then?

Honestly, that's the part that's the most concerning; that bad cocktail of fan apathy/disinterest in losing football, not much of a winning history in the sport, and operating in the red. Keep borrowing against future payouts, and when does Rutgers ever truly collect? Will they ever, or, will a fraction just be good enough?

Rutgers fans are no different from fans at most other schools. They show up when the team wins and don't show up when the team loses. I was at the South Carolina - Clemson game over Thanksgiving. The stadium holds 90k. The Carolina fans were pouring out of the stadium by half time leaving only the Clemson orange faithful in the stands because the beat down was on already. Doesn't matter whether your B-10, ACC, B-12, Pac-12, or SEC. When your team isn't winning the fans walk out early if your losing to beat the traffic out of the parking lot or they just don't show up at all. 04-jawdrop 02-13-banana 02-13-banana 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot COGS COGS 04-cheers

Don't mistake the jab as hatred, but, then again, even Kansas isn't this or this bad. And I know the context for the Penn State game...but this is conference where ridiculous weather swings are the norm, and people still stick around.

AntiG Wrote:Rutgers football will be fine and will be competing again before we all know it.

If the school can actually beat a bowl-eligible Michigan, Ohio State, or Penn State team, and I hope they can someday, great. But, I'm not buying that until then.

Maybe change the division make-up and get them in for more scraps with Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern, and I think that's doable. As is, Schiano or no, the Big Ten East is a death sentence for Indiana, Maryland, and Rutgers.
(This post was last modified: Yesterday 03:53 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(Yesterday 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Don't mistake the jab as hatred, but, then again, even Kansas isn't this or this bad. And I know the context for the Penn State game...but this is conference where ridiculous weather swings are the norm, and people still stick around.

AntiG Wrote:Rutgers football will be fine and will be competing again before we all know it.

If the school can actually beat a bowl-eligible Michigan, Ohio State, or Penn State team, and I hope they can someday, great. But, I'm not buying that until then.

Maybe change the division make-up and get them in for more scraps with Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern, and I think that's doable. As is, Schiano or no, the Big Ten East is a death sentence for Indiana, Maryland, and Rutgers.

those are the results of the Ash Error. Rutgers went 8-5 in its first year in the B1G with Schiano's players, and likely would have retained commitments from the likes of Saquon Barkley and Saeed Blacknall had he not split for the Bucs. That 8-5 team beat Michigan and had a 10-0 lead at halftime versus Penn State before imploding offensively in the second including a late 4th quarter INT to lose the game.
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