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Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
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sierrajip Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-28-2019 12:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 11:51 AM)goofus Wrote:  I have a hunch that 2022 will be the year that the Big Ten scraps its divisions and changes the rules so that the 2 "best" teams always go to the CCG.

If the Big Ten ever does this, one of the priorities should be helping Rutgers, and to a lesser extent Maryland, with the football schedules. They need to not be playing Ohio State -and- Penn State -and- Michigan every single year. If there are "permanent" opponents, they should get at most one of those permanently, and play the others only once or twice every four years.

Why. I doubt the BIG is going to lose or gain any money helping Rutgers or Maryland As long as the ratings are at what they are, the BIG is going to be happy. I doubt Rutgers and Maryland ratings would change the BIG ratings too much. I believe the BIG already controls the audience, for maybe ND.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2019 08:53 PM by sierrajip.)
11-28-2019 08:52 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-28-2019 12:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 11:51 AM)goofus Wrote:  I have a hunch that 2022 will be the year that the Big Ten scraps its divisions and changes the rules so that the 2 "best" teams always go to the CCG.

If the Big Ten ever does this, one of the priorities should be helping Rutgers, and to a lesser extent Maryland, with the football schedules. They need to not be playing Ohio State -and- Penn State -and- Michigan every single year. If there are "permanent" opponents, they should get at most one of those permanently, and play the others only once or twice every four years.

From the conference POV, it is good that their big powers get to feast on Rutgers and Maryland every year. You want your powers to have easy games so they are more likely to go unbeaten and make the playoffs and NY6 bowls.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2019 08:59 PM by quo vadis.)
11-28-2019 08:59 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.
That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.
11-29-2019 02:43 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.
That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.

I'd like to think, and hope, that talks between the Big Ten and some other prospective members, like some of the rumored chasers in the ACC, did happen. And that it went south because the Big Ten people pulled out their finance sheets and deal details, with schools seeing the true sticker price for conference membership.

Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2019 06:31 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
11-29-2019 06:28 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery.

From the way Rutgers situation was described, it is, at least a bit ...

... people hear the headline number and don't realize that the payout is staged over time and the only way to tap into a big number is to borrow against future payout and then you end up handing some of it over to the lender as interest.

There's the apocryphal story of the farmer who always bought his brother a lottery ticket as a birthday present and his brother reciprocated. One year, the farmer hit one of the bigger prizes. The local newspaper sent out a report and asked what he would do with his winnings, "oh, I guess I'll keep farming until that uses it up."
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2019 08:32 AM by BruceMcF.)
11-29-2019 08:30 AM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-28-2019 08:52 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 12:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 11:51 AM)goofus Wrote:  I have a hunch that 2022 will be the year that the Big Ten scraps its divisions and changes the rules so that the 2 "best" teams always go to the CCG.

If the Big Ten ever does this, one of the priorities should be helping Rutgers, and to a lesser extent Maryland, with the football schedules. They need to not be playing Ohio State -and- Penn State -and- Michigan every single year. If there are "permanent" opponents, they should get at most one of those permanently, and play the others only once or twice every four years.

Why. I doubt the BIG is going to lose or gain any money helping Rutgers or Maryland As long as the ratings are at what they are, the BIG is going to be happy. I doubt Rutgers and Maryland ratings would change the BIG ratings too much. I believe the BIG already controls the audience, for maybe ND.

Rutgers has already done what the Big 10 wanted it to do -- brought households into the BTN. Same with Maryland.

The Conference *could* tell us to get our act together -- but wasn't expecting true success or dethroning of UM or OSU in football. The part of the fanbase that Dr. Barchi and the combination of (Julie Herrmann, Patrick Hobbs, Kyle Flood, Mike Rice, Chris Ash) hasn't destroyed is demanding that they get their act together or are withholding donations. The NFL/Rutgers Alumni are demanding the same of the administration.

The problems aren't insurmountable, but become harder to fix with every bad hire or hire on the cheap that's made. The alumni/fans are demanding commitment from the administration.
11-29-2019 09:20 AM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
A thought just occured to me. Once the Big Ten changes its rules so that the 2 best teams make the CCG, they could go to 3 unequal divisions in a 6-4-4 format. The division title would be meaningless in terms of who makes the CCG, but at least it's a banner that a team could win every once and a while.

West-6 teams
Neb, Iowa, Minn, Wisc, ILL, NW

Central-4 teams
Pur, Indy, MSU, Mich

East-4 teams
OSU, PSU, Rut, MD

For the West, the teams 5 permanent rivals are the 5 other teams in the division. They then would play 2 of the 4 teams in the other 2 divisions each year.

For the Central, the 5 rivals are the 3 other teams in their division and 2 of the 4 teams in the east division.

Pur - Rut, PSU
Indy - MD, OSU
MSU - MD, PSU
Mich - Rut, OSU

Then they would play the other 8 teams 50% of the time. Playing 3 of 6 teams in the west each year.

For the East, the 5 rivals are the 3 other teams in their division and 2 of 4 teams in the Central.

Rut - Pur, Mich
MD - Indy, MSU
PSU - Pur, MSU
OSU - Indy, Mich
11-29-2019 10:24 AM
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vandiver49 Online
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Post: #28
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 08:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery.

From the way Rutgers situation was described, it is, at least a bit ...

... people hear the headline number and don't realize that the payout is staged over time and the only way to tap into a big number is to borrow against future payout and then you end up handing some of it over to the lender as interest.

There's the apocryphal story of the farmer who always bought his brother a lottery ticket as a birthday present and his brother reciprocated. One year, the farmer hit one of the bigger prizes. The local newspaper sent out a report and asked what he would do with his winnings, "oh, I guess I'll keep farming until that uses it up."

You can't blame Rutgers for cashing that ticket regardless of the short term expense. It was quintessentially a 100 year decision. What I do question though is the unrealistic expectation from the AD and boosters for a coach to succeed with AAC financing and a B1G schedule.
11-29-2019 11:35 AM
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cubucks Online
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Post: #29
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.
That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.
I see your point and congratulations on the SEC invite.

My view is that I just don't understand how a new member can come right in and get full pay and benefits from day one. The Big ten makes new members "whole" plus a bump until they are fully vested, this makes sense to me.

I have a hard time believing that original SEC members, who have made the conference what it is over many, many years are ok with Missouri coming in and making the same cash from day one. This does not look like a long term vision to me. New memebers are NOT on the same level of their new conference peers from day one.

My own thoughts, surely others see it differently.
11-29-2019 11:57 AM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 11:35 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 08:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery.

From the way Rutgers situation was described, it is, at least a bit ...

... people hear the headline number and don't realize that the payout is staged over time and the only way to tap into a big number is to borrow against future payout and then you end up handing some of it over to the lender as interest.

There's the apocryphal story of the farmer who always bought his brother a lottery ticket as a birthday present and his brother reciprocated. One year, the farmer hit one of the bigger prizes. The local newspaper sent out a report and asked what he would do with his winnings, "oh, I guess I'll keep farming until that uses it up."

You can't blame Rutgers for cashing that ticket regardless of the short term expense. It was quintessentially a 100 year decision. What I do question though is the unrealistic expectation from the AD and boosters for a coach to succeed with AAC financing and a B1G schedule.

It's more of a case of AAC commitment and a B1G schedule.
11-29-2019 12:35 PM
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vandiver49 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 12:35 PM)megadrone Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 11:35 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 08:30 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery.

From the way Rutgers situation was described, it is, at least a bit ...

... people hear the headline number and don't realize that the payout is staged over time and the only way to tap into a big number is to borrow against future payout and then you end up handing some of it over to the lender as interest.

There's the apocryphal story of the farmer who always bought his brother a lottery ticket as a birthday present and his brother reciprocated. One year, the farmer hit one of the bigger prizes. The local newspaper sent out a report and asked what he would do with his winnings, "oh, I guess I'll keep farming until that uses it up."

You can't blame Rutgers for cashing that ticket regardless of the short term expense. It was quintessentially a 100 year decision. What I do question though is the unrealistic expectation from the AD and boosters for a coach to succeed with AAC financing and a B1G schedule.

It's more of a case of AAC commitment and a B1G schedule.

Conceded, but it’s hard to see a away forward in the short term with that kind of mismatch.
11-29-2019 12:52 PM
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usffan Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 06:28 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting a Big Ten invite isn't like hitting the lottery. Or maybe it is, but it's the most expensive ticket price out there for something that isn't the jackpot.

If the only value in joining the B1G were athletics, then I would agree with you. But membership in the Big Ten Academic Alliance, which gives access to resources like the Big Ten Cancer Research Consortium, mean that gaining admission to the B1G IS like hitting the lottery. 13/14 members are in the AAU (hello, Nebraska!), making it one of only two conferences (the other being the Ivy League) that reaches that level of prestige.

Honestly, even if Rutgers athletics never wins a B1G title, this was a great move on their part.

USFFan
11-29-2019 02:00 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-29-2019 11:57 AM)cubucks Wrote:  
(11-29-2019 02:43 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(11-27-2019 07:45 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  That is illuminating indeed. I don't know what's more sad - Rutgers getting scraps for 6 years with debt owed or the B1G having to pay a bottom feeder big bucks after 2021.

That's why I thank my lucky stars Missouri got into the SEC. They do not treat newbies that way.
I see your point and congratulations on the SEC invite.

My view is that I just don't understand how a new member can come right in and get full pay and benefits from day one. The Big ten makes new members "whole" plus a bump until they are fully vested, this makes sense to me.

Thing is, when Mizzou joined the SEC, the SEC Network didn't exist yet. There was no ownership equity to be "fully vested" in. If they wanted to quibble they could distributed Tourney shares to those who were members when the Tourney shares were earned, but that is not a substantial amount compared to the other media money that the SEC receives.
11-30-2019 01:01 AM
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Shannon Panther Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
What is being overlooked here is that pert of the lower payout is offset by an ownership share of the B1G Network. Rutgers and Maryland were not members when the B1G Network was launched. 50% of the Network is owned by the member schools, Since other schools must give up a part of their portion of that enterprise, it only makes sense that they should be compensated. Also if you one 100 shares of a stock and they pay a dividend, you would make 10 tines the amount that someone who owns 10 shares does. Every year Rutgers get a larger stake in the Network and gets a corresponding portion of the payout. They are getting less money but they are getting stock instead.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2019 01:57 AM by Shannon Panther.)
11-30-2019 01:56 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-28-2019 11:51 AM)goofus Wrote:  I have a hunch that 2022 will be the year that the Big Ten scraps its divisions and changes the rules so that the 2 "best" teams always go to the CCG.

Then it could to a schedule where teams have 5 permanent opponents and play the other 8 teams 50% of the time.

If I had to guess the 5 permanent opponents will be

Rut- MD, PSU, OSU, Mich, Pur
MD - Rut, PSU, OSU, MSU, Indy
PSU - Rut, MD, OSU, MSU, Neb
OSU - Rut, MD, PSU, Mich, ILL
Mich - Rut, OSU, MSU, Pur, Minn
MSU - MD, PSU, Mich, Indy, Wisc
Indy - MD, MSU, Pur, ILL, Minn
Pur - Rut, Mich, Indy, NW, ILL
ILL - OSU, Indy, Pur, NW, Iowa
NW - Pur, ILL, Iowa, Wisc, Neb
Wisc - NW, Minn, Iowa, Neb, MSU
Minn - Mich, Wisc, Iowa, Neb, Indy
Iowa - ILL, NW, Wisc, Minn, Neb
Neb - PSU, Wisc, Iowa, Minn, NW

Sign me up for this right now. I want Ruters and PSU. I really like Indiana being of similar nature athletic wise and Michigan State also with the b-ball. Ohio State will continue to crush Maryland but I'm cool with it.


(11-28-2019 12:58 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 11:51 AM)goofus Wrote:  I have a hunch that 2022 will be the year that the Big Ten scraps its divisions and changes the rules so that the 2 "best" teams always go to the CCG.

If the Big Ten ever does this, one of the priorities should be helping Rutgers, and to a lesser extent Maryland, with the football schedules. They need to not be playing Ohio State -and- Penn State -and- Michigan every single year. If there are "permanent" opponents, they should get at most one of those permanently, and play the others only once or twice every four years.

Yes and no. Both Maryland and Rutgers WANT to play Penn State for sure. It's also good for Ohio State and Michigan to be able to beat up on them (for the CFP) and also get eastern exposure. With only 5 locked games Maryland and Rutgers will be playing the top teams less and have *more* of a chance to win games. Not that this automatically means they go bowling every year but will make the bottom teams of the conference look better IMO.
11-30-2019 07:54 AM
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TheOriginalBigApp Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
Rutgers was and is exactly what the B1G selected them to be: an in-conference buy game.
11-30-2019 10:22 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-30-2019 10:22 AM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  Rutgers was and is exactly what the B1G selected them to be: an in-conference buy game.

I agree. Rutgers and Maryland are playing their roles perfectly. On one hand, they helped the B1G land massive increases in their latest media deals.

On the other, they serve as easy wins/doormats for the big powers. Let's face it, as Clemson is proving, their is no cost to having an easy schedule. The one thing that kills a team's CFP chances is "losing". You lose even one game, your CFP chances go on life support, like Alabama is on now.

And the more really good teams you play, the greater the chance of losing. So conference doormats are essential.
11-30-2019 11:45 AM
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Post: #38
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(11-28-2019 10:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 10:11 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Great article Quo
I wish Rutgers and Maryland weren’t in the Big 10.
They don’t belong.
As an Iowa fan I kind of like Nebraska in Big 10 (though Iowa vs Nebraska wasn’t a rivalry before, as they played maybe twice in 3 decades prior)
Nebraska made a huge mistake leaving Big 12 and OU, KU, OSU & UT

Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving. 04-cheers

I agree about the three teams you mention. Ideally, Maryland and Rutgers belong in an Eastern conference with schools like Penn State, Temple, Army, Navy, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, and BC that will never exist.

Nebraska of course belongs in the Big 8, but the Big 8 became untenable thanks to the development of TV contracts based on demographics that emerged once Notre Dame broke up the CFA circa 1990. So given that reality, the Big 12 was and is the best they can do.

The irony is, in today's emerging streaming world, the Big 8 perhaps could have a media-dollars viability these days that it didn't have the past 25 years.

Anybody up for re-forming the band? 07-coffee3

I'd be up for re-forming the OLD BE BAND WITH VT AND MIAMI in it. 04-cheers
12-02-2019 09:28 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
What Rick Pitino can do for Rutgers basketball... 04-cheers
12-02-2019 11:34 AM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Rutgers and B1G money - some illuminating data
(12-02-2019 09:28 AM)panite Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 10:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(11-28-2019 10:11 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Great article Quo
I wish Rutgers and Maryland weren’t in the Big 10.
They don’t belong.
As an Iowa fan I kind of like Nebraska in Big 10 (though Iowa vs Nebraska wasn’t a rivalry before, as they played maybe twice in 3 decades prior)
Nebraska made a huge mistake leaving Big 12 and OU, KU, OSU & UT

Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving. 04-cheers

I agree about the three teams you mention. Ideally, Maryland and Rutgers belong in an Eastern conference with schools like Penn State, Temple, Army, Navy, Pitt, Syracuse, WVU, and BC that will never exist.

Nebraska of course belongs in the Big 8, but the Big 8 became untenable thanks to the development of TV contracts based on demographics that emerged once Notre Dame broke up the CFA circa 1990. So given that reality, the Big 12 was and is the best they can do.

The irony is, in today's emerging streaming world, the Big 8 perhaps could have a media-dollars viability these days that it didn't have the past 25 years.

Anybody up for re-forming the band? 07-coffee3

I'd be up for re-forming the OLD BE BAND WITH VT AND MIAMI in it. 04-cheers

During the last round of realignment, I was one of the few RU fans who favored pursuing the ACC over the B10. It was for purely selfish reasons. Most of the original BE was in the ACC and all but the Fla schools are within a twelve hour drive of NJ. After taking Spit and Cuse, the ACC should have completed the move to 16 by grabbing Rutgers and either UConn or Temple. That would have locked up the East coast and blocked the BIG out of the major Northeastern metros.
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2019 07:41 PM by mikeinsec127.)
12-03-2019 07:40 PM
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