The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Quote: KB couldn't handle PJ

This.

We won’t go anywhere until KB is gone. This entire program is mired in mediocrity.

We should have hired Simon after fleck... couldn’t be any worse. TL is a great alum but he’s just a garbage HC.

I’ve not seen a coach take more talent and crap the bed quite as efficiently as Timmy.

TL is a good overall coach - came within 3 points of a West title in consecutive years - but has been terrible in clutch games.

My concern is that with each season-ending gut punch, it'll make it that much harder to overcome in subsequent years. I'm afraid it's getting into our heads and starting to define us as a program.

The annual Charlie Brown-Lucy football thing.

If we had gotten to the MACC, I wouldn't have even cared if Buffalo drilled us. Lester just needs to get that monkey off his back.

(12-12-2020 10:03 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  We won’t go anywhere until KB is gone. This entire program is mired in mediocrity.

We should have hired Simon after fleck... couldn’t be any worse. TL is a great alum but he’s just a garbage HC.

I’ve not seen a coach take more talent and crap the bed quite as efficiently as Timmy.

We went to a Cotton Bowl with KB.

(12-12-2020 10:46 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:03 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  We won’t go anywhere until KB is gone. This entire program is mired in mediocrity.

We should have hired Simon after fleck... couldn’t be any worse. TL is a great alum but he’s just a garbage HC.

I’ve not seen a coach take more talent and crap the bed quite as efficiently as Timmy.

We went to a Cotton Bowl with KB.

KB has been an excellent AD. She has done a lot of great stuff in Kalamazoo. She deserves credit for the PJ hire even if others had influence. Andy Murray was a HR hire for the hockey team. Hawk was a great hire, but her loyalty to him went way too far. We should've hired Saddi 2-3 years ago. Now, he has bigger options than Western. She will show that same loyalty to Lester.

It's time for a fresh start in the AD's office. Maybe, that lights a fire under Lester's ass & he finally wins something. Maybe, it doesn't and the new AD makes a change. But, it's time.

(12-12-2020 11:07 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:46 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:03 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  We won’t go anywhere until KB is gone. This entire program is mired in mediocrity.

We should have hired Simon after fleck... couldn’t be any worse. TL is a great alum but he’s just a garbage HC.

I’ve not seen a coach take more talent and crap the bed quite as efficiently as Timmy.

We went to a Cotton Bowl with KB.

KB has been an excellent AD. She has done a lot of great stuff in Kalamazoo. She deserves credit for the PJ hire even if others had influence. Andy Murray was a HR hire for the hockey team. Hawk was a great hire, but her loyalty to him went way too far. We should've hired Saddi 2-3 years ago. Now, he has bigger options than Western. She will show that same loyalty to Lester.

It's time for a fresh start in the AD's office. Maybe, that lights a fire under Lester's ass & he finally wins something. Maybe, it doesn't and the new AD makes a change. But, it's time.

I think this is generally the right take. I don't know how much I trust the new president to make a good hire, but I agree with you.

(12-12-2020 11:07 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:46 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:03 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  We won’t go anywhere until KB is gone. This entire program is mired in mediocrity.

We should have hired Simon after fleck... couldn’t be any worse. TL is a great alum but he’s just a garbage HC.

I’ve not seen a coach take more talent and crap the bed quite as efficiently as Timmy.

We went to a Cotton Bowl with KB.

KB has been an excellent AD. She has done a lot of great stuff in Kalamazoo. She deserves credit for the PJ hire even if others had influence. Andy Murray was a HR hire for the hockey team. Hawk was a great hire, but her loyalty to him went way too far. We should've hired Saddi 2-3 years ago. Now, he has bigger options than Western. She will show that same loyalty to Lester.

It's time for a fresh start in the AD's office. Maybe, that lights a fire under Lester's ass & he finally wins something. Maybe, it doesn't and the new AD makes a change. But, it's time.

You guys really think that we did the right thing after fleck by hiring Lester? Just asking. We came back from the cotton bowl and made no effort at staying there. With donor wallets wide open. Don’t tell me you feel KB did any due diligence there. She seemed like she needed something more “comfortable”

(12-12-2020 10:18 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  TL is a good overall coach - came within 3 points of a West title in consecutive years - but has been terrible in clutch games.

My concern is that with each season-ending gut punch, it'll make it that much harder to overcome in subsequent years. I'm afraid it's getting into our heads and starting to define us as a program.

The annual Charlie Brown-Lucy football thing.

If we had gotten to the MACC, I wouldn't have even cared if Buffalo drilled us. Lester just needs to get that monkey off his back.

If he’d lost to Toledo by 3 at the end of the year the last 2 years that’d be one thing. But he lost to an NIU team that literally had players quit days before the game and loses to a Ball St team that was done going into the 4th and was without their best RB which made a big difference as the announcers said 30 times.

Lester continually loses to bad teams dating back to the Sunday Akron debacle.

Ok... emotional reactions aside...

I stand by the fact that KB went with a comfortable pick to replace PJ. We had a chance to make a splash hire there... with plenty of dollars behind it. I have heard that the donors almost matched Minn offer to keep PJ... but Minn went further and thus he bolted. ( I dont think cash would have kept PJ anyway )...

Point is.. we had the resources and we didn't do anything with them. We did the MAC thing and brought back a previous player/coach to take over a program that was already poised to be further ahead than he could ever take it himself. There were options out there... more young coaches with fire in their veins and wanting to be the next PJ... we didn't do anything to root them out.

We went easy.

Thats a KB move.

Has she done great things for WMU... heck yeah! She has been spot on with most hires... Blashill, Murray... and under valued Shane Clipfell. She's also made moves to keep coaches in other sports like soccer and tennis. But when you have your billboard program coming off a cotton bowl season... ESPN gameday... and a undefeated season... MACC.... you step backwards like that... its unacceptable. Those who said whe wasn't comfortable with the "success" of that last PJ season... that right there is just damning.

It takes some real Kool-Aid to make comments like she couldn’t handle PJ and wasn’t comfortable with success, or was too sick for a coaching search. This is a hell of a lot of silly speculation.

Look guys, this isn’t rocket science, Lester was an outstanding team leader as a player, and they wanted to give him the shot and hope he’s a guy who would stay for a long time. It’s really that simple.

I’m more conservative than all of you but you guys talk about our AD as if she was some delicate flower who gets too hysterical to do her basic duties, even though she has an excellent track record and has made great hires and eventually good fires. That’s pretty damn insulting.

(12-13-2020 12:05 AM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 11:07 PM)BroncoMinor Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:46 PM)StrikeGold1 Wrote:  

(12-12-2020 10:03 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  We won’t go anywhere until KB is gone. This entire program is mired in mediocrity.

We should have hired Simon after fleck... couldn’t be any worse. TL is a great alum but he’s just a garbage HC.

I’ve not seen a coach take more talent and crap the bed quite as efficiently as Timmy.

We went to a Cotton Bowl with KB.

KB has been an excellent AD. She has done a lot of great stuff in Kalamazoo. She deserves credit for the PJ hire even if others had influence. Andy Murray was a HR hire for the hockey team. Hawk was a great hire, but her loyalty to him went way too far. We should've hired Saddi 2-3 years ago. Now, he has bigger options than Western. She will show that same loyalty to Lester.

It's time for a fresh start in the AD's office. Maybe, that lights a fire under Lester's ass & he finally wins something. Maybe, it doesn't and the new AD makes a change. But, it's time.

You guys really think that we did the right thing after fleck by hiring Lester? Just asking. We came back from the cotton bowl and made no effort at staying there. With donor wallets wide open. Don’t tell me you feel KB did any due diligence there. She seemed like she needed something more “comfortable”

I'm not sure. Honestly, PJ going to Minnesota happened so late. Therefore, KB had even less time to find the right replacement. The timing of that really stunk. KB didn't have the same scenario to look everywhere for a HC the same way she did for PJ. I wasn't thrilled with the Lester hire, but I understood it and I genuinely respect Lester as a person and former Bronco. But, that good will fades every year as they continue to disappoint. Lester was handed the best WMU program it has ever been from PJ. For the most part, the MAC elite teams have been pretty average during the Lester years. Absolutely no excuses that we have ZERO trips to the MAC championship since PJ left.

It just comes down to the next few years. 2021 & 2022 out of- conference schedules are tough so many of you might get your wish if team finishes 6-6 or 5-7.

Don't kid yourselves. Dunn hired Fleck. KB gets ZERO CREDIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(12-13-2020 02:56 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  Don't kid yourselves. Dunn hired Fleck. KB gets ZERO CREDIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And don't kid yourself... Lester would have NEVER been hired if Dunn wasn't the blocker this time around.

This entire organization is just screaming mediocrity. Dunn was kind of a dick but he also cared passionately about the WMU sports teams. President Montgomery is literally just a budget guy... and sadly its necessary during these times...

We can all bemoan the KB decision to make the Lester hire... but at some point yoiu need to understand the heat thats under her chair... what she's being pushed into by the board. They don't want some unknown to put the numbers against budgets.... PJ definitely pushed boundaries... he went out on his own to grab dollars for the program... he saw things that he needed to update in order to recruit... and he went out and got it on his own. That is the kind of stuff that you WONT get from Lester. Which is sad and a big reason we so quickly have gone backwards... can you imagine what would have happened under PJ when the field flooded at the Akron game? He would have lost his mind and immediately fixed it... Lester? Nothing.

(12-13-2020 03:32 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(12-13-2020 02:56 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  Don't kid yourselves. Dunn hired Fleck. KB gets ZERO CREDIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And don't kid yourself... Lester would have NEVER been hired if Dunn wasn't the blocker this time around.

This entire organization is just screaming mediocrity. Dunn was kind of a dick but he also cared passionately about the WMU sports teams. President Montgomery is literally just a budget guy... and sadly its necessary during these times...

We can all bemoan the KB decision to make the Lester hire... but at some point yoiu need to understand the heat thats under her chair... what she's being pushed into by the board. They don't want some unknown to put the numbers against budgets.... PJ definitely pushed boundaries... he went out on his own to grab dollars for the program... he saw things that he needed to update in order to recruit... and he went out and got it on his own. That is the kind of stuff that you WONT get from Lester. Which is sad and a big reason we so quickly have gone backwards... can you imagine what would have happened under PJ when the field flooded at the Akron game? He would have lost his mind and immediately fixed it... Lester? Nothing.

Honestly, I think it’s pretty unfair to judge Montgomery during these COVID times. He’s trying to keep the ship from sinking. Winning football games is not and should not be his priority right now.

(12-13-2020 02:56 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  Don't kid yourselves. Dunn hired Fleck. KB gets ZERO CREDIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean...

(12-13-2020 03:32 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(12-13-2020 02:56 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  Don't kid yourselves. Dunn hired Fleck. KB gets ZERO CREDIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And don't kid yourself... Lester would have NEVER been hired if Dunn wasn't the blocker this time around.

This entire organization is just screaming mediocrity. Dunn was kind of a dick but he also cared passionately about the WMU sports teams. President Montgomery is literally just a budget guy... and sadly its necessary during these times...

We can all bemoan the KB decision to make the Lester hire... but at some point yoiu need to understand the heat thats under her chair... what she's being pushed into by the board. They don't want some unknown to put the numbers against budgets.... PJ definitely pushed boundaries... he went out on his own to grab dollars for the program... he saw things that he needed to update in order to recruit... and he went out and got it on his own. That is the kind of stuff that you WONT get from Lester. Which is sad and a big reason we so quickly have gone backwards... can you imagine what would have happened under PJ when the field flooded at the Akron game? He would have lost his mind and immediately fixed it... Lester? Nothing.

This is false. WMU admin and the city of Kalamazoo in the spring/summer of 2019 worked together on fixing the draining issues for Waldo Stadium. Unfortunately, now the baseball field outfield is where all the water backs up into

(12-13-2020 03:32 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(12-13-2020 02:56 PM)wingsenforcer Wrote:  Don't kid yourselves. Dunn hired Fleck. KB gets ZERO CREDIT.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And don't kid yourself... Lester would have NEVER been hired if Dunn wasn't the blocker this time around.

This entire organization is just screaming mediocrity. Dunn was kind of a dick but he also cared passionately about the WMU sports teams. President Montgomery is literally just a budget guy... and sadly its necessary during these times...

We can all bemoan the KB decision to make the Lester hire... but at some point yoiu need to understand the heat thats under her chair... what she's being pushed into by the board. They don't want some unknown to put the numbers against budgets.... PJ definitely pushed boundaries... he went out on his own to grab dollars for the program... he saw things that he needed to update in order to recruit... and he went out and got it on his own. That is the kind of stuff that you WONT get from Lester. Which is sad and a big reason we so quickly have gone backwards... can you imagine what would have happened under PJ when the field flooded at the Akron game? He would have lost his mind and immediately fixed it... Lester? Nothing.

PJ can't part the water with a staff from on high, as tough as that may be to believe. LET MY NEKTONS GO FREE! lol

Actually, they did immediately fix it, remember how they—to great expense—pumped all of that water off the field to play the next day? And then I was apparently the only sorry dumb SOB who was excited enough to attend the game?

Maybe if any of you guys showed up to that game you'd have remembered that.

In all seriousness though, short of redirecting the creek and rebuilding the valley through a massive civil engineering project involving multiple existing structures, there's not much to do.

I don't think any AD makes hires completely unilaterally. Kind of seems unfair to say she gets "zero credit" regardless of the circumstances.

(12-13-2020 01:02 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  It takes some real Kool-Aid to make comments like she couldn’t handle PJ and wasn’t comfortable with success, or was too sick for a coaching search. This is a hell of a lot of silly speculation.

Look guys, this isn’t rocket science, Lester was an outstanding team leader as a player, and they wanted to give him the shot and hope he’s a guy who would stay for a long time. It’s really that simple.

I’m more conservative than all of you but you guys talk about our AD as if she was some delicate flower who gets too hysterical to do her basic duties, even though she has an excellent track record and has made great hires and eventually good fires. That’s pretty damn insulting.

It’s not silly speculation. I know 100% that’s what happened. For instance PJ set up a deal with Mangia to provide meals for the players. Nothing wrong on the surface, until he leaves and the admin found out what the bill was.

Also PJ solely approved the championship ring design the week after the MAC Championship despite promising it would be done with admin to gauge pricing options.

When you’re talking about apparel, rings and meals for 100+ people, oversights easily accumulate into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

These are two of the basic examples how PJ ran the program like a P5 and didn’t care about the WMU budget. I know it runs much deeper than that, but that’s why KB needed someone that would stay in line and not think the Bill Brown Center is the same as Dabo’s palace in Clemson.