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Divisions may be going away
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Divisions may be going away
Here is your SEC 3 permanent rival solution for 3-5 model:

Alabama - Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Auburn - Alabama, Florida, Georgia
Arkansas - Missouri, South Carolina, Texas A&M
Florida - Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina
Georgia - Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky - Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
LSU - Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M
Mississippi State - Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss
Missouri - Arkansas, Kentucky, Texas A&M
Ole Miss - LSU, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
South Carolina - Arkansas, Florida, Georgia
Tennessee - Alabama, Kentucky, Vanderbilt
Texas A&M - Arkansas, LSU, Missouri
Vanderbilt - Kentucky, Ole Miss, Tennessee
11-29-2019 08:17 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Divisions may be going away
(11-29-2019 08:17 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Here is your SEC 3 permanent rival solution for 3-5 model:

Alabama - Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Auburn - Alabama, Florida, Georgia
Arkansas - Missouri, South Carolina, Texas A&M
Florida - Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina
Georgia - Auburn, Florida, South Carolina
Kentucky - Missouri, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
LSU - Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M
Mississippi State - Alabama, LSU, Ole Miss
Missouri - Arkansas, Kentucky, Texas A&M
Ole Miss - LSU, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt
South Carolina - Arkansas, Florida, Georgia
Tennessee - Alabama, Kentucky, Vanderbilt
Texas A&M - Arkansas, LSU, Missouri
Vanderbilt - Kentucky, Ole Miss, Tennessee

One problem with that is SOS -- I don't think Auburn will appreciate having Alabama, Florida, and Georgia as protected opponents, especially if Alabama only has Auburn as a challenge and LSU only has A&M (arguably a challenge). While Auburn would presumably keep Alabama and Georgia if at all possible, the Auburn/Florida matchup is expendable, as was shown in 2003.
(This post was last modified: 11-30-2019 09:52 AM by Nerdlinger.)
11-29-2019 09:40 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #143
RE: Divisions may be going away
(11-29-2019 02:04 PM)usffan Wrote:  It's been an interesting conversation. Whatever happened to all of the people who were mocking Aresco for starting this conversation back up? It's suddenly not looking like such a joke any more...

It wasn’t ACC fans. And your boy is not a revolutionary, he was just gifted the opportunity when UConn ditched the conference.
11-30-2019 10:24 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #144
RE: Divisions may be going away
OK, here's my final offer for a divisionless SEC with 3 protected opponents per team. All protected matchups between the "classic" 10 SEC teams have been scheduled annually since at least as far back as 1971.

Code:
ALABAMA         Auburn          LSU             Tennessee      
ARKANSAS        Missouri        Mississippi St  Texas A&M      
AUBURN          Alabama         Georgia         Mississippi St  
FLORIDA         Kentucky        South Carolina  Georgia        
GEORGIA         South Carolina  Auburn          Florida        
KENTUCKY        Florida         Tennessee       Vanderbilt      
LSU             Texas A&M       Alabama         Ole Miss        
MISSISSIPPI ST  Ole Miss        Arkansas        Auburn          
MISSOURI        Arkansas        Texas A&M       South Carolina  
OLE MISS        Mississippi St  Vanderbilt      LSU            
SOUTH CAROLINA  Georgia         Florida         Missouri        
TENNESSEE       Vanderbilt      Kentucky        Alabama        
TEXAS A&M       LSU             Missouri        Arkansas        
VANDERBILT      Tennessee       Ole Miss        Kentucky

A map depicting the protected matchups:

[Image: sPlQr4D.png]

Also, updated version of this:

[Image: 3FMKBw4.png]
12-01-2019 09:56 AM
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Post: #145
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-01-2019 09:56 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  OK, here's my final offer for a divisionless SEC with 3 protected opponents per team. All protected matchups between the "classic" 10 SEC teams have been scheduled annually since at least as far back as 1971.

Code:
ALABAMA         Auburn          LSU             Tennessee      
ARKANSAS        Missouri        Mississippi St  Texas A&M      
AUBURN          Alabama         Georgia         Mississippi St  
FLORIDA         Kentucky        South Carolina  Georgia        
GEORGIA         South Carolina  Auburn          Florida        
KENTUCKY        Florida         Tennessee       Vanderbilt      
LSU             Texas A&M       Alabama         Ole Miss        
MISSISSIPPI ST  Ole Miss        Arkansas        Auburn          
MISSOURI        Arkansas        Texas A&M       South Carolina  
OLE MISS        Mississippi St  Vanderbilt      LSU            
SOUTH CAROLINA  Georgia         Florida         Missouri        
TENNESSEE       Vanderbilt      Kentucky        Alabama        
TEXAS A&M       LSU             Missouri        Arkansas        
VANDERBILT      Tennessee       Ole Miss        Kentucky

A map depicting the protected matchups:

[Image: sPlQr4D.png]

Also, updated version of this:

[Image: 3FMKBw4.png]
Best effort I've seen for 3. 4 still works better.
12-01-2019 10:05 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-01-2019 10:05 AM)bullet Wrote:  Best effort I've seen for 3. 4 still works better.

I think having 4 protected opponents results in too many forced matchups for most teams. Even with 3, there are already a few of those.
12-02-2019 11:13 AM
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Post: #147
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:13 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:05 AM)bullet Wrote:  Best effort I've seen for 3. 4 still works better.

I think having 4 protected opponents results in too many forced matchups for most teams. Even with 3, there are already a few of those.

That's not important. What is important is the rivalries that would be lost. The 4 newer schools don't have 100 year old ties, some of which have already been seriously weakened. Tennessee-Ole Miss and Georgia-Ole Miss were once pretty good rivalries. But Tennessee-Alabama and Georgia-Auburn were bigger, so Ole Miss lost out when they went to 1 fixed rival from the other division.
12-02-2019 11:17 AM
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Post: #148
RE: Divisions may be going away
The Big 10 has refused to be boxed in by symmetry. They have Indiana-Purdue fixed, but none of the others. So those two get the other division teams 6 in 18 years while the rest get other division teams 8 in 18.

If you have an 8 game schedule, you can also allow a 9th game that doesn't count in the standings. That could be a solution if Auburn and Missouri switched places in a 2 division SEC. Alabama-Tennessee (or Alabama-Auburn) could be an ooc game in the years they weren't scheduled.
12-02-2019 11:22 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Divisions may be going away
You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.
12-02-2019 11:24 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #150
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

Absolutely, I totally agree....but so many people neeeeeeed everything in a pretty little box.
12-02-2019 11:29 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:29 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

Absolutely, I totally agree....but so many people neeeeeeed everything in a pretty little box.

Yeah the simplest way to do it is just lay out everyone's protected rivalries each year and the remaining empty slots should be easy to fill in.
Alabama - Auburn, Tennessee, LSU, and then maybe Mississippi State?
Auburn - Alabama, Georgia, Florida
Ole Miss - Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Kentucky - Tennessee
South Carolina - Georgia
Florida - Georgia
Georgia - Auburn, South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee
Tennessee - Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Ole Miss
etc....
I think Tennessee may have the most protected games if they get back to playing Ole Miss.
12-02-2019 11:38 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #152
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:13 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(12-01-2019 10:05 AM)bullet Wrote:  Best effort I've seen for 3. 4 still works better.

I think having 4 protected opponents results in too many forced matchups for most teams. Even with 3, there are already a few of those.

That's not important. What is important is the rivalries that would be lost. The 4 newer schools don't have 100 year old ties, some of which have already been seriously weakened. Tennessee-Ole Miss and Georgia-Ole Miss were once pretty good rivalries. But Tennessee-Alabama and Georgia-Auburn were bigger, so Ole Miss lost out when they went to 1 fixed rival from the other division.

But with 3 protected and 5 non-protected opponents, you play every team at least twice in 4 years, which would mean an old rivalry like Ole Miss/Tennessee gets played much more frequently than it is now even if not protected. I'd argue, however, that if a rivalry has not been played annually in decades, it can't be that important anymore, even if it once was.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 05:47 PM by Nerdlinger.)
12-02-2019 04:41 PM
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Gamecock Online
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Post: #153
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

This is just my opinion but if a rivalry game is only your 4th most important game of the season then it's probably not a huge deal if you only play it every other year.
12-02-2019 04:55 PM
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Post: #154
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:38 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:29 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

Absolutely, I totally agree....but so many people neeeeeeed everything in a pretty little box.

Yeah the simplest way to do it is just lay out everyone's protected rivalries each year and the remaining empty slots should be easy to fill in.
Alabama - Auburn, Tennessee, LSU, and then maybe Mississippi State?
Auburn - Alabama, Georgia, Florida
Ole Miss - Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Kentucky - Tennessee
South Carolina - Georgia
Florida - Georgia
Georgia - Auburn, South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee
Tennessee - Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Ole Miss
etc....
I think Tennessee may have the most protected games if they get back to playing Ole Miss.

Georgia-Tennessee isn't essential.
12-02-2019 05:10 PM
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Post: #155
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 04:55 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

This is just my opinion but if a rivalry game is only your 4th most important game of the season then it's probably not a huge deal if you only play it every other year.

Georgia has to play Georgia Tech, Florida and Auburn. They would like to play Clemson every year. Its closer to UGA than any other out of state school. They used to really like playing Ole Miss. It was a fixed game at first along with Auburn.
South Carolina could be every other year, but for South Carolina, they need UGA.
12-02-2019 05:13 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #156
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 11:38 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:29 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

Absolutely, I totally agree....but so many people neeeeeeed everything in a pretty little box.

Yeah the simplest way to do it is just lay out everyone's protected rivalries each year and the remaining empty slots should be easy to fill in.
Alabama - Auburn, Tennessee, LSU, and then maybe Mississippi State?
Auburn - Alabama, Georgia, Florida
Ole Miss - Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Kentucky - Tennessee
South Carolina - Georgia
Florida - Georgia
Georgia - Auburn, South Carolina, Florida, Tennessee
Tennessee - Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Ole Miss
etc....
I think Tennessee may have the most protected games if they get back to playing Ole Miss.

It's an interesting idea to have a different number of protected opponents for different teams. Probably would play hell with the scheduling, but I'd have to look more closely to tell for sure.
12-02-2019 05:50 PM
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Post: #157
RE: Divisions may be going away
(12-02-2019 04:55 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(12-02-2019 11:24 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  You don't have to have a same plan for each program. Alabama can have 4 protected rivalries a year, while Missouri may only have two. You just have to schedule each year around those games. It is very doable just more work each year instead of a formula.

This is just my opinion but if a rivalry game is only your 4th most important game of the season then it's probably not a huge deal if you only play it every other year.

I would agree. Most teams really have 3 or fewer "essential" annual opponents anyway.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2019 05:53 PM by Nerdlinger.)
12-02-2019 05:52 PM
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