how is PC still that high? 8th and within 3 of 6th?

(12-02-2019 10:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  how is PC still that high? 8th and within 3 of 6th?

still a lot of preseason baked into it....

RPI as of tonight PC is only #251.

Will be interesting when we see the NET on the 16th I think it is. 2 weeks...

PC is awful. I expected more at start of season. Now I don't really see/expect them to win more than 3 or 4 conference games. that's being optimistic too

Here's the numbers from KP from start of season to today-
But 33/12 +21
Vil 8/19 -11
SH 19/24 -5
Mar 18/26 -8
Xav 17/32 -15
Geo 55/45 +10
Cre 36/53 -17
Dep 76/59 +17
Pro 30/75 -45
SJ 97/97 0

avg start of season: 38.90
avg today:44.20
(UConn 70/55 +15)

It's funny everyone talks about Seton Hall as being a disappointment. And they are so far....

But what about Nova? They have 1 decent win so far- vs Miss St. Played 2 good teams and lost to both. Huge game for them on Saturday vs Kansas.

And will be really interesting to see tomorrow to compare Ken Pom to the NET ratings.

(12-15-2019 01:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's funny everyone talks about Seton Hall as being a disappointment. And they are so far....

But what about Nova? They have 1 decent win so far- vs Miss St. Played 2 good teams and lost to both. Huge game for them on Saturday vs Kansas.

And will be really interesting to see tomorrow to compare Ken Pom to the NET ratings.

I don't consider SHall a disappointment (given its bad luck with injuries). Now, Villanova ... a semi-disappointment, no doubt.

(12-15-2019 07:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's funny everyone talks about Seton Hall as being a disappointment. And they are so far....

But what about Nova? They have 1 decent win so far- vs Miss St. Played 2 good teams and lost to both. Huge game for them on Saturday vs Kansas.

And will be really interesting to see tomorrow to compare Ken Pom to the NET ratings.

I don't consider SHall a disappointment (given its bad luck with injuries). Now, Villanova ... a semi-disappointment, no doubt.

What is Seton Hall's quality win right now? Neutral vs Iowa St? I think I'd take Nova with their win over Miss St neutral over that right now... Both still have huge chances- Seton Hall home vs Maryland- Nova with Kansas, UConn, and Temple (2 likely Q1's and a Q2 in there)…..

(12-15-2019 07:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 07:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's funny everyone talks about Seton Hall as being a disappointment. And they are so far....

But what about Nova? They have 1 decent win so far- vs Miss St. Played 2 good teams and lost to both. Huge game for them on Saturday vs Kansas.

And will be really interesting to see tomorrow to compare Ken Pom to the NET ratings.

I don't consider SHall a disappointment (given its bad luck with injuries). Now, Villanova ... a semi-disappointment, no doubt.

What is Seton Hall's quality win right now? Neutral vs Iowa St? I think I'd take Nova with their win over Miss St neutral over that right now... Both still have huge chances- Seton Hall home vs Maryland- Nova with Kansas, UConn, and Temple (2 likely Q1's and a Q2 in there)…..

A fair question, but does the Hall have a "bad" loss (all factors considered)? I don't feel so. Thus, my take that the Pirates have not been a "disappointment." Granted, you know this stuff better than I do.

(12-15-2019 08:18 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 07:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 07:25 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(12-15-2019 01:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's funny everyone talks about Seton Hall as being a disappointment. And they are so far....

But what about Nova? They have 1 decent win so far- vs Miss St. Played 2 good teams and lost to both. Huge game for them on Saturday vs Kansas.

And will be really interesting to see tomorrow to compare Ken Pom to the NET ratings.

I don't consider SHall a disappointment (given its bad luck with injuries). Now, Villanova ... a semi-disappointment, no doubt.

What is Seton Hall's quality win right now? Neutral vs Iowa St? I think I'd take Nova with their win over Miss St neutral over that right now... Both still have huge chances- Seton Hall home vs Maryland- Nova with Kansas, UConn, and Temple (2 likely Q1's and a Q2 in there)…..

A fair question, but does the Hall have a "bad" loss (all factors considered)? I don't feel so. Thus, my take that the Pirates have not been a "disappointment." Granted, you know this stuff better than I do.

I think though the fact thru all this and they don't have a big win hurts them... They've had all these chances and nada. Now they're going to have to win 11+ games in conference play to have any shot at making the tournament.

the NET ratings are in-
Butler 4
Villanova 24
Georgetown 38
DePaul 43
Marquette 53
Seton Hall 55
Creighton 56
St John's 65
Xavier 71
Providence 146
avg 55.5

comparing the 3 systems-
NET/RPI/KP
Butler 4/16/10
Nova 24/8/19
Georgetown 38/25/45
DePaul 43/68/58
Marquette 53/21/26
Seton Hall 55/95/23
Creighton 56/79/52
St John's 65/117/97
Xavier 71/48/33
Providence 146/215/75

avg NET 55.5
avg RPI 69.2
avg KP 43.8

Despite the ranking it gives MU, which I love, RPI is not a system. There's no reason to reference it. It was pointless when it was used by the committee, it's even more pointless now.

I find the NET rankings interesting, but knew based on last year rankings in December that we'd see some weird stuff. Look at the top 30, especially teams in the 20-30 range that have zero Q1 wins and zero or one Q2 wins. Many of those teams just won't hold up in those spots. But that is OK! As the season rolls, the rankings will get more accurate.

the thing that'll be really interesting just like last year for the Big East- can any other teams but Butler and Nova get into the top 30? Right now for say Marquette they have 10 Q1 games left- but only 2 are at home.

Really interesting how far back Seton Hall is, especially compared to their Ken Pom.

(12-16-2019 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  the thing that'll be really interesting just like last year for the Big East- can any other teams but Butler and Nova get into the top 30? Right now for say Marquette they have 10 Q1 games left- but only 2 are at home.

Really interesting how far back Seton Hall is, especially compared to their Ken Pom.

10 Q1 games left is a pretty healthy number. B12, B10, BE looking like they have lots of Q1 opportunities in conference play.

SEC, ACC, P12 only getting 4-6 opportunities as it stands right now.

This will all definitely change though as the season progresses. Just too many teams loaded higher in the rankings from outside the power conferences listed above. Check out the A10! They're gettin' some NET love! Good for them!

(12-16-2019 11:51 AM)MU in MKE Wrote:  

(12-16-2019 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  the thing that'll be really interesting just like last year for the Big East- can any other teams but Butler and Nova get into the top 30? Right now for say Marquette they have 10 Q1 games left- but only 2 are at home.

Really interesting how far back Seton Hall is, especially compared to their Ken Pom.

10 Q1 games left is a pretty healthy number. B12, B10, BE looking like they have lots of Q1 opportunities in conference play.

SEC, ACC, P12 only getting 4-6 opportunities as it stands right now.

This will all definitely change though as the season progresses. Just too many teams loaded higher in the rankings from outside the power conferences listed above. Check out the A10! They're gettin' some NET love! Good for them!

While true you get a lot of Q1 games- with most of them on the road- that doesn't help much. Going 2-10 vs Q1 games doesn't help much.

I wouldn't expect the AAC teams to drop much and A10 will have at least 1-2 in the top 30.... Really no where near as many interlopers as there were last year.

(12-16-2019 11:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-16-2019 11:51 AM)MU in MKE Wrote:  

(12-16-2019 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  the thing that'll be really interesting just like last year for the Big East- can any other teams but Butler and Nova get into the top 30? Right now for say Marquette they have 10 Q1 games left- but only 2 are at home.

Really interesting how far back Seton Hall is, especially compared to their Ken Pom.

10 Q1 games left is a pretty healthy number. B12, B10, BE looking like they have lots of Q1 opportunities in conference play.

SEC, ACC, P12 only getting 4-6 opportunities as it stands right now.

This will all definitely change though as the season progresses. Just too many teams loaded higher in the rankings from outside the power conferences listed above. Check out the A10! They're gettin' some NET love! Good for them!

While true you get a lot of Q1 games- with most of them on the road- that doesn't help much. Going 2-10 vs Q1 games doesn't help much.

I wouldn't expect the AAC teams to drop much and A10 will have at least 1-2 in the top 30.... Really no where near as many interlopers as there were last year.

I guess they'll have to do better than 2-10 then..

(12-16-2019 11:58 AM)MU in MKE Wrote:  

(12-16-2019 11:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-16-2019 11:51 AM)MU in MKE Wrote:  

(12-16-2019 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  the thing that'll be really interesting just like last year for the Big East- can any other teams but Butler and Nova get into the top 30? Right now for say Marquette they have 10 Q1 games left- but only 2 are at home.

Really interesting how far back Seton Hall is, especially compared to their Ken Pom.

10 Q1 games left is a pretty healthy number. B12, B10, BE looking like they have lots of Q1 opportunities in conference play.

SEC, ACC, P12 only getting 4-6 opportunities as it stands right now.

This will all definitely change though as the season progresses. Just too many teams loaded higher in the rankings from outside the power conferences listed above. Check out the A10! They're gettin' some NET love! Good for them!

While true you get a lot of Q1 games- with most of them on the road- that doesn't help much. Going 2-10 vs Q1 games doesn't help much.

I wouldn't expect the AAC teams to drop much and A10 will have at least 1-2 in the top 30.... Really no where near as many interlopers as there were last year.

I guess they'll have to do better than 2-10 then..

It's the bottom line for sure. This new system they started a few years ago really put the pressure on winning those road games.

Seton Hall is going to be really interesting if they finish like 17-14.