The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Wow! Duke goes down at home.

(11-26-2019 11:28 PM)dubcat14 Wrote:  Duke and SF Austin to OT.. crazy finish of regulation time.

Crazy finish in OT too.. #1 Duke falls to SF Austin. SFA steals the ball with 4 seconds left and their player sprints the length of the floor to lay it in as the clock runs out.

(11-26-2019 11:30 PM)Tymanh99 Wrote:  Wow! Duke goes down at home.

Watched the last 10 minutes and OT. Couldnt tell if SFA was really good or Duke wasnt good. But SFA was making every single pass look like an adventure for Duke and SFA was just making all kinds of plays on offense. Coach K is very overrated as in game coach IMO, as he has very odd substitution patterns leaving Carey out of the game the lst 2 minutes. Congrats to SFA on a program changing win.

See? EVERYBODY loses to mid-majors in OT.

(11-26-2019 11:30 PM)Tymanh99 Wrote:  Wow! Duke goes down at home.

That's a stone cold stunner

What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball or rising young teams with great coaches. It simply means November games are largely meaningless in the big scheme of things. Duke and Kentucky have Hall of Fame coaches and one or both teams will be in the Final Four in a few short months.

We've seen a massive overreaction from a few Bearcat fans to the past three games against what we imagined were over-matched mid-majors. It's just much too early to pass judgment on UC's talent and coaching one day before Thanksgiving. If UC can get everyone healthy and on the same page with Brannen over the next 30 days we're going to see some entertaining basketball and hear Cincinnati's name called on Selection Sunday.

(11-27-2019 08:21 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball or rising young teams with great coaches. It simply means November games are largely meaningless in the big scheme of things. Duke and Kentucky have Hall of Fame coaches and one or both teams will be in the Final Four in a few short months.

We've seen a massive overreaction from a few Bearcat fans to the past three games against what we imagined were over-matched mid-majors. It's just much too early to pass judgment on UC's talent and coaching one day before Thanksgiving. If UC can get everyone healthy and on the same page with Brannen over the next 30 days we're going to see some entertaining basketball and hear Cincinnati's name called on Selection Sunday.

Bingo. After seeing UK and Duke lose at home to mid-majors, I would like to think the folks overreacting on this board might calm down a little. I doubt it though. I'm sure if we don't blow out UNLV on Saturday, they will be back in full force with the "this coach is stupid and this team is no good" comments. To make matters worse, UCLA played them earlier and won by 17, so if we don't win by at least that amount, we'll get to hear about how we ran a winning coach out of town as well. Cincinnati (the city, not the university) fans in general have to be the most miserable bunch in all of sports.

(11-27-2019 08:00 AM)Dont tase me bro Wrote:  

(11-26-2019 11:30 PM)Tymanh99 Wrote:  Wow! Duke goes down at home.

That's a stone cold stunner

I see what you did there...

Honest take, how good is Coach K still? Anymore, he has just seemed to be a collector of superior talent. His multi year guys and upper classmen never seem to develop, and his in game coaching decisions and substitution patterns are odd. I am sure Duke will be good by years end, but I think he has been slipping as he gets older and just winning on these monster recruiting classes (ala Calipari).

(11-27-2019 09:10 AM)jarr Wrote:  Honest take, how good is Coach K still? Anymore, he has just seemed to be a collector of superior talent. His multi year guys and upper classmen never seem to develop, and his in game coaching decisions and substitution patterns are odd. I am sure Duke will be good by years end, but I think he has been slipping as he gets older and just winning on these monster recruiting classes (ala Calipari).

He's the best recruiter in college basketball. He wasn't won the ACC outright in a decade but somehow has managed 2 national titles. In short I'd say he's pretty damn good. Few coaches assemble the talent he has assembled. He's translated it into tournament success (despite some bad tournament losses as well) and while there are better game to game coaches than Coach K, there are maybe 2 or 3 programs that would trade what he does for Duke even today.

(11-27-2019 09:13 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 09:10 AM)jarr Wrote:  Honest take, how good is Coach K still? Anymore, he has just seemed to be a collector of superior talent. His multi year guys and upper classmen never seem to develop, and his in game coaching decisions and substitution patterns are odd. I am sure Duke will be good by years end, but I think he has been slipping as he gets older and just winning on these monster recruiting classes (ala Calipari).

He's the best recruiter in college basketball. He wasn't won the ACC outright in a decade but somehow has managed 2 national titles. In short I'd say he's pretty damn good. Few coaches assemble the talent he has assembled. He's translated it into tournament success (despite some bad tournament losses as well) and while there are better game to game coaches than Coach K, there are maybe 2 or 3 programs that would trade what he does for Duke even today.

He is a great recruiter, like maybe the best recruiter right now even better than Calipari. But in every other way we judge coaches, he seems to have slipped quite a bit from what he was 20 years ago. Having players like Zion can cover up alot of flaws. This isn't meant as a bash Duke take, but just an honest observation.

(11-27-2019 08:21 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball.

I disagree. Talent level at the upper end has dropped considerably with the one-and-doners in the last few years. And, that's where teams with upper class men can show their advantage. Between the last two consensus best freshman college players (Anthony Davis in 2012 and Zion last year), name me one who was anywhere close to them?

A lot of these kids look good on the AAU circuit, but once they start playing structured basketball, their "weaker" skills start to show.

In this current basketball cycle, these elite programs that rely on these one year superstars probably won't get it done, even if they get quite a few of them every year.

(11-27-2019 08:57 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:21 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball or rising young teams with great coaches. It simply means November games are largely meaningless in the big scheme of things. Duke and Kentucky have Hall of Fame coaches and one or both teams will be in the Final Four in a few short months.

We've seen a massive overreaction from a few Bearcat fans to the past three games against what we imagined were over-matched mid-majors. It's just much too early to pass judgment on UC's talent and coaching one day before Thanksgiving. If UC can get everyone healthy and on the same page with Brannen over the next 30 days we're going to see some entertaining basketball and hear Cincinnati's name called on Selection Sunday.

Bingo. After seeing UK and Duke lose at home to mid-majors, I would like to think the folks overreacting on this board might calm down a little. I doubt it though. I'm sure if we don't blow out UNLV on Saturday, they will be back in full force with the "this coach is stupid and this team is no good" comments. To make matters worse, UCLA played them earlier and won by 17, so if we don't win by at least that amount, we'll get to hear about how we ran a winning coach out of town as well. Cincinnati (the city, not the university) fans in general have to be the most miserable bunch in all of sports.

Coach K and Calipari have track records that are carved in stone and on display in Springfield, Massachusetts. This is not an apt comparison.

(11-27-2019 09:30 AM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:21 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball.

I disagree. Talent level at the upper end has dropped considerably with the one-and-doners in the last few years. And, that's where teams with upper class men can show their advantage. Between the last two consensus best freshman college players (Anthony Davis in 2012 and Zion last year), name me one who was anywhere close to them?

A lot of these kids look good on the AAU circuit, but once they start playing structured basketball, their "weaker" skills start to show.

In this current basketball cycle, these elite programs that rely on these one year superstars probably won't get it done, even if they get quite a few of them every year.

Yep. Usually in any given year there are only a handful (maybe 4 or 5), of these freshman that can really make a major impact. Even when you have the generational talents like Zion or AD, they still need a really good supporting cast with upperclassmen. AD had it and Zion didn't.

(11-27-2019 09:41 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:57 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:21 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball or rising young teams with great coaches. It simply means November games are largely meaningless in the big scheme of things. Duke and Kentucky have Hall of Fame coaches and one or both teams will be in the Final Four in a few short months.

We've seen a massive overreaction from a few Bearcat fans to the past three games against what we imagined were over-matched mid-majors. It's just much too early to pass judgment on UC's talent and coaching one day before Thanksgiving. If UC can get everyone healthy and on the same page with Brannen over the next 30 days we're going to see some entertaining basketball and hear Cincinnati's name called on Selection Sunday.

Bingo. After seeing UK and Duke lose at home to mid-majors, I would like to think the folks overreacting on this board might calm down a little. I doubt it though. I'm sure if we don't blow out UNLV on Saturday, they will be back in full force with the "this coach is stupid and this team is no good" comments. To make matters worse, UCLA played them earlier and won by 17, so if we don't win by at least that amount, we'll get to hear about how we ran a winning coach out of town as well. Cincinnati (the city, not the university) fans in general have to be the most miserable bunch in all of sports.

Coach K and Calipari have track records that are carved in stone and on display in Springfield, Massachusetts. This is not an apt comparison.

Perhaps not, but neither is John Brannen (after 6 games) to Tony Yates, and I have seen that already on the board. Also, I'm not comparing Brannen to Coach K or Calipari in terms of coaching acumen. Just mentioning those losses to say that having a rough neutral-site tournament when you're banged up and breaking in a new coaching staff and system isn't the end of the world.

(11-26-2019 08:57 PM)Bearcat04 Wrote:  UD looks great! Currently #1 in the country in FG%, they share the ball very well, and it doesn't hurt to have a lottery pick on your roster.

Yep, i'm really impressed by them. If we won 2 of 5 periods against them like someone said in that scrimmage pre season that probably is a good thing. They look about as good as anyone i've seen this year. A Ud guy i talked to said they also scrimmaged X in preseason and beat them. Not sure if that's accurate, but he is generally pretty informed. They play really well together. Grant was 14-17 his last year, 21-12 last year, and looks very good this year. It takes some time.

(11-27-2019 10:06 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 09:41 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:57 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 08:21 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  What happened at Duke last night and Evansville's win at Kentucky have nothing to do with parity in college basketball or rising young teams with great coaches. It simply means November games are largely meaningless in the big scheme of things. Duke and Kentucky have Hall of Fame coaches and one or both teams will be in the Final Four in a few short months.

We've seen a massive overreaction from a few Bearcat fans to the past three games against what we imagined were over-matched mid-majors. It's just much too early to pass judgment on UC's talent and coaching one day before Thanksgiving. If UC can get everyone healthy and on the same page with Brannen over the next 30 days we're going to see some entertaining basketball and hear Cincinnati's name called on Selection Sunday.

Bingo. After seeing UK and Duke lose at home to mid-majors, I would like to think the folks overreacting on this board might calm down a little. I doubt it though. I'm sure if we don't blow out UNLV on Saturday, they will be back in full force with the "this coach is stupid and this team is no good" comments. To make matters worse, UCLA played them earlier and won by 17, so if we don't win by at least that amount, we'll get to hear about how we ran a winning coach out of town as well. Cincinnati (the city, not the university) fans in general have to be the most miserable bunch in all of sports.

Coach K and Calipari have track records that are carved in stone and on display in Springfield, Massachusetts. This is not an apt comparison.

Perhaps not, but neither is John Brannen (after 6 games) to Tony Yates, and I have seen that already on the board. Also, I'm not comparing Brannen to Coach K or Calipari in terms of coaching acumen. Just mentioning those losses to say that having a rough neutral-site tournament when you're banged up and breaking in a new coaching staff and system isn't the end of the world.

Here is an apt comparison. Ed Jucker took over a Bearcat squad after the graduation of Oscar Robertson, Ralph Davis and company and promptly lost 3 of its first 8 games. UC then ran off 21 straight wins and won the national championship over the team up I-71 with Bob Weisenhahn, Carl Bouldin, Tom Thacker, Tony Yates and Paul Hogue. Certainly not predicting a similar outcome this year, but transitioning to a new coach and new system can take some time.

(11-27-2019 09:24 AM)jarr Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 09:13 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(11-27-2019 09:10 AM)jarr Wrote:  Honest take, how good is Coach K still? Anymore, he has just seemed to be a collector of superior talent. His multi year guys and upper classmen never seem to develop, and his in game coaching decisions and substitution patterns are odd. I am sure Duke will be good by years end, but I think he has been slipping as he gets older and just winning on these monster recruiting classes (ala Calipari).

He's the best recruiter in college basketball. He wasn't won the ACC outright in a decade but somehow has managed 2 national titles. In short I'd say he's pretty damn good. Few coaches assemble the talent he has assembled. He's translated it into tournament success (despite some bad tournament losses as well) and while there are better game to game coaches than Coach K, there are maybe 2 or 3 programs that would trade what he does for Duke even today.

He is a great recruiter, like maybe the best recruiter right now even better than Calipari. But in every other way we judge coaches, he seems to have slipped quite a bit from what he was 20 years ago. Having players like Zion can cover up alot of flaws. This isn't meant as a bash Duke take, but just an honest observation.

I don't think Coach K has fallen out of the Top 25 like Calipari has with UK in off years, at least not recently. He gets the talent, but he also routinely delivers and drives deep in March. I think the biggest disappointment was when they got upset in the first one or two rounds in the past few years.

(11-27-2019 09:57 AM)jarr Wrote:  Yep. Usually in any given year there are only a handful (maybe 4 or 5), of these freshman that can really make a major impact. Even when you have the generational talents like Zion or AD, they still need a really good supporting cast with upperclassmen. AD had it and Zion didn't.

I've always thought these teams that are in the one and done market make a mistake by not complimenting it with good 3 and 4 year players. Picture how a Duke looks if you supplement Zion and RJ with a great guys like Gary Clark and Jacob Evans who are still NBA guys.

(11-27-2019 10:06 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  Perhaps not, but neither is John Brannen (after 6 games) to Tony Yates, and I have seen that already on the board. Also, I'm not comparing Brannen to Coach K or Calipari in terms of coaching acumen. Just mentioning those losses to say that having a rough neutral-site tournament when you're banged up and breaking in a new coaching staff and system isn't the end of the world.

It's way too early to be concerned about Brannen's long-term prospects, and I think only a few posters have been over-the-top critical so far in game threads.

My worry is that Brannen isn't able to install his preferred system or doesn't get Jarron to buy in to it, and we kind of blow this year while facing a bit of a rebuilding step-back next season. The team has looked pretty bad overall. I think a lot of that is because Jarron hasn't been healthy. But some of it appears to be because Brannen hasn't gotten the players on the same page and has butted heads with our singularly important player. That's cause for concern, I think, and pointing out that Duke (who beat Kansas already) and UK (who beat Mich. St. already) have bad home losses is pretty much a nonsequitor. Also, the rest of our nonconference schedule is pretty brutal.