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C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
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MonarchsWon Offline
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Post: #21
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
(11-16-2019 04:10 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Should be a limit of ONE non D1 game per season.

Should be ZERO Non-D1 schools scheduled outside of exhibition games. Ron Bertovich did a fantastic job during our CAA days of scheduling strategy for the conference. NO CAA Schools played non-D1 schools. The question was only how tough to schedule based on program strength and he was excellent at maneuvering programs schedule strength. There were requirements imposed by the conference . I'm just amazed at how poorly CUSA schools schedule and it should not be allowed.
01-07-2020 12:46 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #22
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
(01-07-2020 12:46 PM)MonarchsWon Wrote:  
(11-16-2019 04:10 PM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Should be a limit of ONE non D1 game per season.

Should be ZERO Non-D1 schools scheduled outside of exhibition games. Ron Bertovich did a fantastic job during our CAA days of scheduling strategy for the conference. NO CAA Schools played non-D1 schools. The question was only how tough to schedule based on program strength and he was excellent at maneuvering programs schedule strength. There were requirements imposed by the conference . I'm just amazed at how poorly CUSA schools schedule and it should not be allowed.

It used to be that hardly anybody played down a division in the regular season. When I went to VCU in the mid 90s, they had to get permission from either the NCAA, the conference, or both to add an in-season game against Virginia Union after a scheduled opponent withdrew. I think once schools realized that there was no consequences for playing non-D1 schools since they aren't counted in RPI/NET rankings, and in fact losing to, say, Apprentice School or Regent would be less harmful than beating a MEAC or Big South school with a sub-200 ranking, they started to add those (usually) gimme games.

I'll say this until my fingers go numb: The only way to stop non-D1 games in-season is for the NCAA to either a) apply the NET all the way through D3, or b) give D2/D3/non-NCAA teams a standardized ranking well below even the lowest of the D1s. Until the NCAA finally disincentives play against non-D1s, schools will continue to schedule them, and if they show no interest in closing the loophole, then as much as I hate this, I'd rather see ODU play Virginia State and Virginia Wesleyan than low-achieving D1 schools as their tomato-can games going forward.
01-07-2020 01:09 PM
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MonarchsWon Offline
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Post: #23
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
My point is that CUSA should make the decision regardless of NCAA / NET policies. Bertovich/CAA greatly enhanced their conference rankings by playing strategically sound schedules and never played D2/D3 teams. If CUSA wants to enhance its rankings - it needs to schedule accordingly. Should Rice play as tough a schedule as WKY - NO - but they don't need to play D2/D3.
01-08-2020 09:20 AM
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DaBigBlue Offline
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Post: #24
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
Our conference leadership, is the most zippo bunch I've ever seen. Driving the conference to new greatness.
[Image: qpBnPnM.jpg]
01-08-2020 11:50 AM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #25
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
(01-08-2020 09:20 AM)MonarchsWon Wrote:  My point is that CUSA should make the decision regardless of NCAA / NET policies. Bertovich/CAA greatly enhanced their conference rankings by playing strategically sound schedules and never played D2/D3 teams. If CUSA wants to enhance its rankings - it needs to schedule accordingly. Should Rice play as tough a schedule as WKY - NO - but they don't need to play D2/D3.

Or what? What leverage does the conference have to mandate OOC scheduling? Kick them out of the conference? You'll note that no other conference has ever done anything remotely that extreme to a full dues-paying member.

I mean, you can schedule like a SWAC team that plays most if not all of its games on the road against much better competition, and that'll goose those almighty NET numbers, but that's not really in the best interest of the program.

If this is a serious concern beyond the look of playing a non-D1 (and as much as it pains me to admit it, it's a lot less weird looking now with most mids and below playing those games), then the onus of change is going to have to come from the NCAA, because they're the only ones with the power to disincentivize those contests by giving them a NET ranking that makes them a far worse option than even a sub-300 D1 school.

I know Judy is the source from which the river of all our woes flows, but ADs and coaches schedule with the best interests of their programs in mind, both on and off the court. I say this absolutely HATING non-D1 games (and getting yelled at by their defenders on the CUSA board) but at this point it is what it is. Better teams than ODU are playing those games. You want CUSA to be respected more? Win more. That's the magic formula. Get some big-boy victories but more to the point, beat the teams on your level. That's on the coaches and players, not the administration.
01-08-2020 01:35 PM
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Post: #26
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
Most of these teams would lose to the SWAC teams. I'd just as soon see them keep playing D2 teams.
01-08-2020 01:40 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #27
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
(01-08-2020 01:40 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Most of these teams would lose to the SWAC teams. I'd just as soon see them keep playing D2 teams.

CUSA isn't THAT bad but again, it's a broken system when a loss to a non-D1 school has no impact on your NET, but a win against a weak D1 team hurts you — even if that team would pound the non-D1 opponent every time. Viewed in that context, why the hell SHOULDN'T Southern Miss or Rice play D3s and NAIAs instead of SWAC and poor Southland opponents?

I'd like to see D1 programs across the board not play non-D1s in the regular season but that's going to have to come through the NCAA, because the conferences aren't going to have the leverage to effect change. And honestly, why the hell would they care? People seem to have accepted the non-D1 games enough that it isn't the shameful thing it used to be to have them on the schedule, and replacing them with lower D1 games won't change anything, nor will playing higher-level opponents that blow you away.
01-08-2020 01:56 PM
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MonarchsWon Offline
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Post: #28
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
(01-08-2020 01:35 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(01-08-2020 09:20 AM)MonarchsWon Wrote:  My point is that CUSA should make the decision regardless of NCAA / NET policies. Bertovich/CAA greatly enhanced their conference rankings by playing strategically sound schedules and never played D2/D3 teams. If CUSA wants to enhance its rankings - it needs to schedule accordingly. Should Rice play as tough a schedule as WKY - NO - but they don't need to play D2/D3.

Or what? What leverage does the conference have to mandate OOC scheduling? Kick them out of the conference? You'll note that no other conference has ever done anything remotely that extreme to a full dues-paying member.

I mean, you can schedule like a SWAC team that plays most if not all of its games on the road against much better competition, and that'll goose those almighty NET numbers, but that's not really in the best interest of the program.

If this is a serious concern beyond the look of playing a non-D1 (and as much as it pains me to admit it, it's a lot less weird looking now with most mids and below playing those games), then the onus of change is going to have to come from the NCAA, because they're the only ones with the power to disincentivize those contests by giving them a NET ranking that makes them a far worse option than even a sub-300 D1 school.

I know Judy is the source from which the river of all our woes flows, but ADs and coaches schedule with the best interests of their programs in mind, both on and off the court. I say this absolutely HATING non-D1 games (and getting yelled at by their defenders on the CUSA board) but at this point it is what it is. Better teams than ODU are playing those games. You want CUSA to be respected more? Win more. That's the magic formula. Get some big-boy victories but more to the point, beat the teams on your level. That's on the coaches and players, not the administration.

In the CAA - Bertovich - who wasn't the Commissioner - Yeager was - had one job - to help schools/conference with scheduling strategy. If schools didn't comply - their winnings were impacted. Their draw from NCAA distributions, etc. were limited. That's the leverage the conference had and it was the conference members who voted these policies in. Every school held every other school accountable.
01-08-2020 02:44 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #29
RE: C-USA schedules like a D2, shocked when not considered a good D1 conf
(01-08-2020 02:44 PM)MonarchsWon Wrote:  
(01-08-2020 01:35 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(01-08-2020 09:20 AM)MonarchsWon Wrote:  My point is that CUSA should make the decision regardless of NCAA / NET policies. Bertovich/CAA greatly enhanced their conference rankings by playing strategically sound schedules and never played D2/D3 teams. If CUSA wants to enhance its rankings - it needs to schedule accordingly. Should Rice play as tough a schedule as WKY - NO - but they don't need to play D2/D3.

Or what? What leverage does the conference have to mandate OOC scheduling? Kick them out of the conference? You'll note that no other conference has ever done anything remotely that extreme to a full dues-paying member.

I mean, you can schedule like a SWAC team that plays most if not all of its games on the road against much better competition, and that'll goose those almighty NET numbers, but that's not really in the best interest of the program.

If this is a serious concern beyond the look of playing a non-D1 (and as much as it pains me to admit it, it's a lot less weird looking now with most mids and below playing those games), then the onus of change is going to have to come from the NCAA, because they're the only ones with the power to disincentivize those contests by giving them a NET ranking that makes them a far worse option than even a sub-300 D1 school.

I know Judy is the source from which the river of all our woes flows, but ADs and coaches schedule with the best interests of their programs in mind, both on and off the court. I say this absolutely HATING non-D1 games (and getting yelled at by their defenders on the CUSA board) but at this point it is what it is. Better teams than ODU are playing those games. You want CUSA to be respected more? Win more. That's the magic formula. Get some big-boy victories but more to the point, beat the teams on your level. That's on the coaches and players, not the administration.

In the CAA - Bertovich - who wasn't the Commissioner - Yeager was - had one job - to help schools/conference with scheduling strategy. If schools didn't comply - their winnings were impacted. Their draw from NCAA distributions, etc. were limited. That's the leverage the conference had and it was the conference members who voted these policies in. Every school held every other school accountable.

How did that work? Because there's only so much you can do if schools can't or won't come to your gym. I can understand scheduling recommendations and even some form of discipline if it's obvious no effort is being made, but scheduling based on RPI/NET/other metrics is problematic because last year's numbers don't necessarily translate to this year, and at best you're going to have a broad sense of who's going to be good and not good when it comes time to schedule those games — and then one injury, transfer or coach firing turns that on its head.

Hard limits seem hard to enforce. Let's say the standard is, say, six Q1/2 games, and if you have to go on the road for them, so be it. Getting (hopefully?) good schools to come to town is easier said than done, and the idea of having an abbreviated home OOC will make a lot of coaches, ADs and fans unhappy. People here weren't happy with ODU only having five home games, and ODU has a far easier time scheduling quality opponents, home and away, than most if not all the rest of CUSA.

You can schedule ambitiously, but doing so without a good team is putting the cart before the horse.
01-08-2020 03:04 PM
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