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(11-09-2019 08:29 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 08:00 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  He was a major booster and he bribed a kid who went to the school. It’s open & shut.

Even a grossly biased Cincy fan should be able to see that is clearly not the case here.

UC loss LaSalle Thompson because a family friend who was a UC booster bought him a coat. I'm sure it was much less than $11,500 ...and whatever else Penny has given the kid.

This is about as blatant a violation as it gets.

About Chase Young, there are pics of him walking around campus with a Louis Vitton backpack (those can be over a grand) and two cell phones. Yeah, that kid needed a loan to get by - errr! Fly his girl to Cali.

RULES ARE RULES.

(11-09-2019 10:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Guys, its quite possible Wisemen ends up playing this year still (he may have to sit out some games), but even if he doesn't Memphis and Hardaway are going to be just fine and going to continue to land big recruits. Other than screwing over Wiseman and hurting the NCAA, this is not going to hurt the program or the coach very much.

Even without Wiseman Memphis is still going to clownstomp most of the AAC this season.

Wiseman getting ruled ineligible really does not help you and hurts the conference and the NCAA long term.

I’m not sure why you’re on here trying to reassure yourself. UC fans actually WANT Memphis to be really good. You guys opted for a shortcut. You knew it when you signed an AAU coach to a high D-1 coaching gig. You accepted the risks. You were never interested in actually trying to build a program. We’ll see how that plays out. If you have to start all over again that doesn’t help UC or the AAC in anyway.

(11-09-2019 10:40 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 09:31 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 08:29 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 08:00 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  He was a major booster and he bribed a kid who went to the school. It’s open & shut.

Even a grossly biased Cincy fan should be able to see that is clearly not the case here.

Come on man. Who’s being biased here. You guys knew exactly what was going on. It was the only reason you hired Penny to begin with. It certainly wasn’t for his college coaching resume.

And he was no doubt the wealthiest coach on the AAU circuit. He paid the kid to follow him so he could benefit when the time was right. You guys had been talking to Penny about coaching Memphis for years because of it. Hell your board has been bragging about it the moment Pastner fell on his face.

Just be honest. Don’t feign indignation. You wanted to get rich quick. You took the risk.

Stop pretending like I have to be dishonest about anything here. Penny gave money to the university back in 2008. James Wiseman was 8 years old.

He helped the family relocate to play High school ball for him after his sophomore year. Penny was not a college coach and had no way of knowing he would be the Memphis coach in 2018.

Its not illegal to coach AAU or High school and them move up to the NCAA's Nor is it illegal to use those connections, ALL coaches and programs do.

There is nothing I have to be dishonest about and nothing I have to feign.

Once you are identified as a representative, you retain that identity indefinitely. So no argument Penny is a representative. Mixed feelings if the rules are the same as back in the Lasalle Thompson days Wiseman cannot play for Memphis. From a what is best for the American Conference I want the Bearcats to defeat Memphis with Wiseman on the Court. Heck maybe four times in one year like we administered to Hardaway as a Tiger.

in what capacity was penny a booster to memphis? unless james weisman is still getting envelopes (wassup bulldog) he seems to really want to play for penny. it's prohibitive conduct for sure, for a reason. on a case by case basis, if this was it, i say slap em on the wrist. not a kick in the balls

memphis had the moxy of a burgeoning flagship, one that could perhaps benefit the aac like nova. not sayin they be winning championships and sh!t. but it certainly is in the realm of possibilities. you 'magin' what the collegiate hoopscape would look like if chalmers doesn't tie the game or if gordon hayward hits that three.....kenyon doesn't break his leg

(11-09-2019 10:58 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 10:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Guys, its quite possible Wisemen ends up playing this year still (he may have to sit out some games), but even if he doesn't Memphis and Hardaway are going to be just fine and going to continue to land big recruits. Other than screwing over Wiseman and hurting the NCAA, this is not going to hurt the program or the coach very much.

Even without Wiseman Memphis is still going to clownstomp most of the AAC this season.

Wiseman getting ruled ineligible really does not help you and hurts the conference and the NCAA long term.

I’m not sure why you’re on here trying to reassure yourself. UC fans actually WANT Memphis to be really good. You guys opted for a shortcut. You knew it when you signed an AAU coach to a high D-1 coaching gig. You accepted the risks. You were never interested in actually trying to build a program. We’ll see how that plays out. If you have to start all over again that doesn’t help UC or the AAC in anyway.

I think you are jumping to all kinds of wild conclusions that are not even happening here. Wiseman may be declared ineligible but Memphis and Penny are fine and will roll on for years to come.

This was not a risk at all, it was a great move that has already payed off big time in recruiting and national exposure over the last year.

Penny is building a program and doing a tremendous job. Elite prospects from all over the country are now seriously interested in coming here. You just sound a little jealous.

I am not here to "reassure" myself on anything. Memphis and Penny are fine. I am just here to discuss it with some fellow conference mates. Maybe you should be a little more open to outsiders on your board. We generally are on ours.

(11-08-2019 08:19 PM)Loco Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-08-2019 06:36 PM)natibeast21 Wrote:  

(11-08-2019 06:34 PM)Dannyboy Wrote:  Don’t punish the kid, punish Memphis. Let him be eligible.....for any team except Memphis.

I’m sure if Coach K assisted in a player/family moving there would be a 30 for 30 on how coach K saved another kid from misery, poverty, etc. Aided the family in the right direction to success and so on. Might even win the Nobel peace prize.

Coach K has hooked up players parents with jobs in the Durham area. CBS sports does a survey every year with 100 anonymous Head Coaches and Coach K is near the Top when it comes to bending and breaking the rules. I have a family friend who use to work in College Athletics and he told me that Coach K is corrupt and is the meanest most vindictive coach in College Sports. He told me that People who work in College Athletics actually fear him and that he is a total fraud.

Nobody pulls top talent out of the cesspool that is the Chicago Public League (which K has done for decades) without being shady as ****. Everyone from the players to the coaches to the street agents to the "uncles" in that league has their hands out.

I have a few contradictory-ish thoughts about this.

These rules are all really dumb.

But this seems like a rather blatant violation of them.

When he was hired, everyone thought Penny was going to get popped by the NCAA.

Wiseman appears to be awesome, and I'm looking forward to seeing UC play against him.

I've always liked UC's rivalry with Memphis, and it'd be great for UC and the AAC if Memphis were a top program once more. They've been a disaster since we became league-mates again.

I hate Memphis.

(11-09-2019 11:17 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 10:58 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 10:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Guys, its quite possible Wisemen ends up playing this year still (he may have to sit out some games), but even if he doesn't Memphis and Hardaway are going to be just fine and going to continue to land big recruits. Other than screwing over Wiseman and hurting the NCAA, this is not going to hurt the program or the coach very much.

Even without Wiseman Memphis is still going to clownstomp most of the AAC this season.

Wiseman getting ruled ineligible really does not help you and hurts the conference and the NCAA long term.

I’m not sure why you’re on here trying to reassure yourself. UC fans actually WANT Memphis to be really good. You guys opted for a shortcut. You knew it when you signed an AAU coach to a high D-1 coaching gig. You accepted the risks. You were never interested in actually trying to build a program. We’ll see how that plays out. If you have to start all over again that doesn’t help UC or the AAC in anyway.

I think you are jumping to all kinds of wild conclusions that are not even happening here. Wiseman may be declared ineligible but Memphis and Penny are fine and will roll on for years to come.

This was not a risk at all, it was a great move that has already payed off big time in recruiting and national exposure over the last year.

Penny is building a program and doing a tremendous job. Elite prospects from all over the country are now seriously interested in coming here. You just sound a little jealous.

I am not here to "reassure" myself on anything. Memphis and Penny are fine. I am just here to discuss it with some fellow conference mates. Maybe you should be a little more open to outsiders on your board. We generally are on ours.

Why would we be jealous of Memphis? UC has been quite succesful on its own. The better you are the better the conference is. Especially after losing UConn.

As to the bolded, why do you feel unwelcome? If we weren’t open to outsiders we wouldn’t be engaging you in polite conversation. Remember we’re not Tiger fans here so our point of view is going to be different.

Memphis gawn Memphis

(11-09-2019 11:27 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 11:17 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 10:58 AM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 10:51 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Guys, its quite possible Wisemen ends up playing this year still (he may have to sit out some games), but even if he doesn't Memphis and Hardaway are going to be just fine and going to continue to land big recruits. Other than screwing over Wiseman and hurting the NCAA, this is not going to hurt the program or the coach very much.

Even without Wiseman Memphis is still going to clownstomp most of the AAC this season.

Wiseman getting ruled ineligible really does not help you and hurts the conference and the NCAA long term.

I’m not sure why you’re on here trying to reassure yourself. UC fans actually WANT Memphis to be really good. You guys opted for a shortcut. You knew it when you signed an AAU coach to a high D-1 coaching gig. You accepted the risks. You were never interested in actually trying to build a program. We’ll see how that plays out. If you have to start all over again that doesn’t help UC or the AAC in anyway.

I think you are jumping to all kinds of wild conclusions that are not even happening here. Wiseman may be declared ineligible but Memphis and Penny are fine and will roll on for years to come.

This was not a risk at all, it was a great move that has already payed off big time in recruiting and national exposure over the last year.

Penny is building a program and doing a tremendous job. Elite prospects from all over the country are now seriously interested in coming here. You just sound a little jealous.

I am not here to "reassure" myself on anything. Memphis and Penny are fine. I am just here to discuss it with some fellow conference mates. Maybe you should be a little more open to outsiders on your board. We generally are on ours.

Why would we be jealous of Memphis?

As to the bolded, why do you feel unwelcome?

I read your posts.

But I agree with your last one. You should not be jealous, us being good is good for the conference and you should be welcome to outsiders.

The only people really hurt by this are Wiseman and the NCAA, which is a real shame. The NCAA should have told Penny months ago Wiseman would not be eligible at Memphis and let him go elsewhere. This is totally their fault and they are committing suicide over stuff like this.

Hardaway and Memphis informed the NCAA about all of this over the summer and they cleared the situation. Now Wiseman may get screwed over.

Worth a quick read. The NCAA is being very dumb here.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/11/8/2095...state-ncaa

(11-09-2019 11:47 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Worth a quick read. The NCAA is being very dumb here.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/11/8/2095...state-ncaa

Wiseman should have never been eligible to play H.S. ball. Why is Penny so quiet? He probably doesn't want anyone digging any deeper. Coaches should never be throwing that much money around to their players - at any level.

How much money did the other AAU players get?

How did Young pay the money back for that expensive trip?

(11-09-2019 12:08 PM)Romell Shorter Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 11:47 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Worth a quick read. The NCAA is being very dumb here.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/11/8/2095...state-ncaa

Wiseman should have never been eligible to play H.S. ball. Why is Penny so quiet? He probably doesn't want anyone digging any deeper. Coaches should never be throwing that much money around to their players - at any level.

How much money did the other AAU players get?

How did Young pay the money back for that expensive trip?

Love the hate.

These athletes know the rules about financial assistance. The coaches know the rules. The schools know the rules.
The athletes, coaches and schools have to play by the rules to play in the NCAA.
Don't want to play by the NCAA's rules then go Pro or play in Europe.
If they choose to break the NCAA's rules then they get whatever punishment is coming.
I don't feel sorry for Young or Wiseman, Hardaway, Day, Memphis or tOSU.

(11-09-2019 12:24 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  These athletes know the rules about financial assistance. The coaches know the rules. The schools know the rules.
The athletes, coaches and schools have to play by the rules to play in the NCAA.
Don't want to play by the NCAA's rules then go Pro or play in Europe.
If they choose to break the NCAA's rules then they get whatever punishment is coming.
I don't feel sorry for Young or Wiseman, Hardaway, Day, Memphis or tOSU.

Several problems with your post:

Hardaway was not a college coach when any of this happened, nor did he expect to be by 2018. Memphis was not involved in any of this when it happened.

The school broke no rules, nor did the staff. Hardaway broke no rules, neither did Wiseman. The NCAA is retroactively applying things to when Penny was a HS coach.

The NCAA was also notified of all the details, investigated the situation and cleared Wiseman to play at Memphis. Now after the season starts they change their minds.

If they had an issue with any of this, they should have notified Penny and Wiseman over the spring/summer and allowed him to play at another school. Now that he is enrolled at Memphis they are going to punish him and not let him play at all? That is total BS.

(11-09-2019 01:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 12:24 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  These athletes know the rules about financial assistance. The coaches know the rules. The schools know the rules.
The athletes, coaches and schools have to play by the rules to play in the NCAA.
Don't want to play by the NCAA's rules then go Pro or play in Europe.
If they choose to break the NCAA's rules then they get whatever punishment is coming.
I don't feel sorry for Young or Wiseman, Hardaway, Day, Memphis or tOSU.

Several problems with your post:

Hardaway was not a college coach when any of this happened, nor did he expect to be by 2018. Memphis was not involved in any of this when it happened.

The school broke no rules, nor did the staff. Hardaway broke no rules, neither did Wiseman. The NCAA is retroactively applying things to when Penny was a HS coach.

The NCAA was also notified of all the details, investigated the situation and cleared Wiseman to play at Memphis. Now after the season starts they change their minds.

If they had an issue with any of this, they should have notified Penny and Wiseman over the spring/summer and allowed him to play at another school. Now that he is enrolled at Memphis they are going to punish him and not let him play at all? That is total BS.

Penny was correctly labeled a Memphis booster in 2008 because he donated to Memphis. Then in 2017, Penny paid for a hs athlete Wiseman and his family to move to Memphis to the tune of at least $11.5K. Boosters paying for things for hs and college athletes is a big known no-no. Penny as his coach at Memphis now is almost irrelevant because the violation is Penny as a booster paying a hs athlete.

Wiseman took the money to move from a booster making himself ineligible to play at any NCAA school.

Young's situation sounds similar...took money from a tOSU booster/supporter. Allegedly paid it back...sure.

(11-09-2019 01:24 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 01:03 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-09-2019 12:24 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  These athletes know the rules about financial assistance. The coaches know the rules. The schools know the rules.
The athletes, coaches and schools have to play by the rules to play in the NCAA.
Don't want to play by the NCAA's rules then go Pro or play in Europe.
If they choose to break the NCAA's rules then they get whatever punishment is coming.
I don't feel sorry for Young or Wiseman, Hardaway, Day, Memphis or tOSU.

Several problems with your post:

Hardaway was not a college coach when any of this happened, nor did he expect to be by 2018. Memphis was not involved in any of this when it happened.

The school broke no rules, nor did the staff. Hardaway broke no rules, neither did Wiseman. The NCAA is retroactively applying things to when Penny was a HS coach.

The NCAA was also notified of all the details, investigated the situation and cleared Wiseman to play at Memphis. Now after the season starts they change their minds.

If they had an issue with any of this, they should have notified Penny and Wiseman over the spring/summer and allowed him to play at another school. Now that he is enrolled at Memphis they are going to punish him and not let him play at all? That is total BS.

Penny was correctly labeled a Memphis booster in 2008 because he donated to Memphis. Then in 2017, Penny paid for a hs athlete Wiseman and his family to move to Memphis to the tune of at least $11.5K. Boosters paying for things for hs and college athletes is a big known no-no. Penny as his coach at Memphis now is almost irrelevant because the violation is Penny as a booster paying a hs athlete.

Wiseman took the money to move from a booster making himself ineligible to play at any NCAA school.

Young's situation sounds similar...took money from a tOSU booster/supporter. Allegedly paid it back...sure.

Penny was not a booster recruiting for Memphis, he was a HS coach bringing in a top talent at his HS. You are conveniently leaving those facts out to make it look like he was a booster just recruiting Wiseman to Memphis the whole time when that was CLEARLY not the case here. He was actually setting things up for Wiseman to go to Kentucky, then unexpectedly got hired at Memphis.

Penny made a single donation of 1 million to Memphis when James Wiseman was 8 years old. That is the whole basis of calling him a booster.

Penny informed the NCAA, the NCAA investigated, was aware of ALL of these facts and still cleared Wiseman to play for Memphis back in May.

If the NCAA had said this was a problem, Wiseman simply would have gone to another school and been fully eligible. Instead they investigated it and cleared the whole thing. Now that Wiseman is enrolled at Memphis and locked in they change their mind? Its just wrong.

The NCAA is at fault here, not Penny, Memphis or Wiseman.

Bylaw 12.1.1.1.6. The subcommittee determined that prior to initial full-time collegiate enrollment, a prospective student-athlete may receive normal and reasonable living expenses from an individual with whom the student-athlete has an established relationship (e.g., high-school coach, nonscholastic athletics team coach, family of a teammate), even if the relationship developed as a result of athletics participation, provided:

1- The individual is not an agent,
2- The individual is not an athletics representative of a particular institution involved in recruiting the prospect, and
3- Such living expenses are consistent with the types of expenses provided by the individual as a part of normal living arrangements (e.g., housing, meals, occasional spending money, use of the family car).



So this seems to say that an athlete can get normal living expenses from:

A High School Coach
non-Scholastic Coach
Family of a teammate

Assuming for a second that this is the only money that has changed hands here and I doubt many believe that, paying to move someone to another city to play basketball is a normal living expense?

(11-09-2019 02:40 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Assuming for a second that this is the only money that has changed hands here and I doubt many believe that, paying to move someone to another city to play basketball is a normal living expense?

Of course it is. Just like you can’t be a booster if you haven’t made a donation in 10 years. I’m trying to figure out definitions here. So, who’s a booster? A guy who pays $1000 a year for a 20 year period or a guy who makes a one time donation of $1,000,000?