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Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
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AllTideUp Offline
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Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
From ESPN:


Quote:A former Villanova football player is suing the NCAA, claiming that college athletes should be viewed as employees and paid like other students who participate in work-study programs on campus.

Trey Johnson filed the class-action lawsuit Wednesday in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania federal court. Along with the NCAA, 22 Division I universities are listed as defendants. Johnson, who currently plays in the Canadian Football League, is asking for what amounts to unpaid wages for his time spent on the Villanova football team.

"Our case says everyone deserves to be paid in every sport," said Paul McDonald, one of the attorneys representing Johnson in the case along with Michael Willemin from the law firm of Wigdor LLP. "[The NCAA] could do this starting next fall if they put their mind to it. You would just fold student-athletes into the same system as other work-study students."


Quote:In most cases regarding the Fair Labor Standards Act, the court will run the claim through one of two standard tests to determine if the plaintiff should be considered an employee and is entitled to minimum wage. In the Penn track runners case -- Berger v. NCAA --the court decided no test was necessary after the NCAA successfully argued it should be granted an exception because of its tradition of amateurism. According to McDonald, the NCAA argued for its exception by using a case in which prisoners in Illinois sued in an attempt to be paid for the work they did while incarcerated.


Quote:McDonald said he was confident that the judge in this case will at least allow for the employment test, which amounts to a series of questions that seek to define the relationship between the athlete and his or her school. He said he believes Johnson and any others who join the lawsuit will be able to make a strong case that they should considered as employees.

"If you go through each criteria and compare them to work-study students that have already passed those tests as employees, student-athletes are even more of an employee," McDonald said.
11-08-2019 03:07 PM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
Bizarre that an FCS player is doing this.
11-09-2019 10:33 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(11-09-2019 10:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Bizarre that an FCS player is doing this.

It's not going to translate well enough to win this. Work Study students who are not athletes are nowhere near as well compensated as those on scholarships. To want both your scholarship and the menial pay of work study seems so very disconnected.
11-09-2019 10:39 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(11-09-2019 10:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(11-09-2019 10:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Bizarre that an FCS player is doing this.

It's not going to translate well enough to win this. Work Study students who are not athletes are nowhere near as well compensated as those on scholarships. To want both your scholarship and the menial pay of work study seems so very disconnected.

It IS a potential path to equal pay for all players though...
03-idea
11-09-2019 11:32 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(11-09-2019 11:32 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(11-09-2019 10:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(11-09-2019 10:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Bizarre that an FCS player is doing this.

It's not going to translate well enough to win this. Work Study students who are not athletes are nowhere near as well compensated as those on scholarships. To want both your scholarship and the menial pay of work study seems so very disconnected.

It IS a potential path to equal pay for all players though...
03-idea
It would have to be called something else and administered by the Athletic Department. Otherwise the common students on work study would sue because the athletes will most certainly earn more because the common student working in an office doesn't risk life altering injury to accomplish their job.
11-09-2019 11:42 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
Some news

06-28-2021 12:08 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
A recent article on why Alston "strongly suggests" that the pre-discovery motion to dismiss this case will be denied:
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/scotus...y-3241322/

Has anyone seen this FLSA employment test? Is it some simple checklist? Something more complicated? (My search skills stink, apparently.)

ETA: nevermind, they're described in the complaint 03-banghead
https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public/desk...1626851691
(This post was last modified: 07-21-2021 02:35 AM by chester.)
07-20-2021 02:38 AM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(11-09-2019 10:33 AM)bullet Wrote:  Bizarre that an FCS player is doing this.

Was he a full ride player for all of his years at Villanova? It seems like an athlete that had a partial scholarship would have a stronger case.
07-22-2021 03:36 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?


Here's the memorandum (30 pages):
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/164...sociation/
(This post was last modified: 08-25-2021 09:14 PM by chester.)
08-25-2021 04:33 PM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(11-08-2019 03:07 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  From ESPN:


Quote:A former Villanova football player is suing the NCAA, claiming that college athletes should be viewed as employees and paid like other students who participate in work-study programs on campus.

Trey Johnson filed the class-action lawsuit Wednesday in the Eastern District of Pennsylvania federal court. Along with the NCAA, 22 Division I universities are listed as defendants. Johnson, who currently plays in the Canadian Football League, is asking for what amounts to unpaid wages for his time spent on the Villanova football team.

"Our case says everyone deserves to be paid in every sport," said Paul McDonald, one of the attorneys representing Johnson in the case along with Michael Willemin from the law firm of Wigdor LLP. "[The NCAA] could do this starting next fall if they put their mind to it. You would just fold student-athletes into the same system as other work-study students."


Quote:In most cases regarding the Fair Labor Standards Act, the court will run the claim through one of two standard tests to determine if the plaintiff should be considered an employee and is entitled to minimum wage. In the Penn track runners case -- Berger v. NCAA --the court decided no test was necessary after the NCAA successfully argued it should be granted an exception because of its tradition of amateurism. According to McDonald, the NCAA argued for its exception by using a case in which prisoners in Illinois sued in an attempt to be paid for the work they did while incarcerated.


Quote:McDonald said he was confident that the judge in this case will at least allow for the employment test, which amounts to a series of questions that seek to define the relationship between the athlete and his or her school. He said he believes Johnson and any others who join the lawsuit will be able to make a strong case that they should considered as employees.

"If you go through each criteria and compare them to work-study students that have already passed those tests as employees, student-athletes are even more of an employee," McDonald said.

If this passes, scholarships disappear and schools go to club sports in all but football, basketball, baseball, hockey and whatever women's sports they need to comply with Title IX. And maybe club in baseball and hockey.
08-26-2021 02:46 PM
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chester Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
I don't think scholarships will disappear. If they did, schools would still pay some players an amount equal to COA + at least minimum wage. The problem with that is, if you hand over a check to a player to pay for school then the player might blow it, and they might not then have the money to cover costs. With scholarships, a school can directly pay itself, one pocket to the other, and the players remains eligible.
08-26-2021 09:06 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(08-26-2021 09:06 PM)chester Wrote:  I don't think scholarships will disappear. If they did, schools would still pay some players an amount equal to COA + at least minimum wage. The problem with that is, if you hand over a check to a player to pay for school then the player might blow it, and they might not then have the money to cover costs. With scholarships, a school can directly pay itself, one pocket to the other, and the players remains eligible.

Why plus minimum wage? Anything above tuition, books and fees are already considered taxable income. If the player is deemed by the courts to be an employee, then that's his compensation, and the only question should be does it amount to enough to be more than minimum wage.
08-27-2021 09:27 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
(08-27-2021 09:27 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(08-26-2021 09:06 PM)chester Wrote:  I don't think scholarships will disappear. If they did, schools would still pay some players an amount equal to COA + at least minimum wage. The problem with that is, if you hand over a check to a player to pay for school then the player might blow it, and they might not then have the money to cover costs. With scholarships, a school can directly pay itself, one pocket to the other, and the players remains eligible.

Why plus minimum wage? Anything above tuition, books and fees are already considered taxable income. If the player is deemed by the courts to be an employee, then that's his compensation, and the only question should be does it amount to enough to be more than minimum wage.

04-cheers I keep thinking in terms of the College Athlete Right to Organize Act, which I think would exempt any compensation from taxation under the NLRA but not the FLSA. Under which law(s) is current compensation above tuition, books and fees taxable? I dunno, TBH.
08-27-2021 10:18 AM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
So here's how the judge sees it, providing plaintiffs prove their claims:

These days factor 7 would lean toward employment for some, since schools may now promise recruits paid post-eligibility internships.
08-27-2021 11:09 AM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
Now that the NCAA's motion to dismiss has also been denied, plaintiffs have filed a motion asking the judge to conditionally certify a class of all DI athletes who work(ed) for the NCAA from April 6, 2017 to the present and classes of athletes who work(ed) for the 14 co-defendant DI shools. Plaintiffs want the judge to hurry because "the statute of limitations on the FLSA claims of the members of the Putative FLSA Collectives will begin to run when Defendants file an opposition to [the] motion." (Defendants haven't done that yet.) Athletes have to opt-in, apparently, so they'd need to be quickly notified. The plaintiffs' lawyers expect that there are over 200,000 of them.

Meanwhile, the NCAA and co-defendants have asked leave for interlocutory appeals to the Third Circuit. They want the Third to answer "whether under any set of fact it is possible to state a claim that the NCAA is a joint employer of" athletes; whether athletes are "ever ipso facto employees of the schools for whom they compete under the FLSA" and, "if so, under what circumstances are [they] ipso facto considered employees of their schools." I gather interlocutory appeals are rarely granted.

I wish the judge would set a trial date already. I'm interested in knowing when this will be settled. Guessing the trial would not come before 2023 since the case is still pre-discovery, pre-class certification. 2024 at the latest? Add a couple of extra years if SCOTUS takes it? Seems like they probably would take it if plaintiffs win rounds 1 and/or 2 because that would conflict with a couple of prior, pre-Alston decisions in other circuits.
(This post was last modified: 10-14-2021 12:31 PM by chester.)
10-14-2021 12:25 PM
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chester Offline
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?

Denied - gov.uscourts.paed.564006.100.0.pdf

Granted - gov.uscourts.paed.564006.98.0.pdf

Quote:IT IS HEREBY CERTIFIED for interlocutory appeal:

Whether NCAA Division I student athletes can be employees of the colleges and universities they attend for purposes of the Fair Labor Standards Act solely by virtue of their participation in interscholastic athletics.

Hmm, wonder if the Third Circuit COA will accept the interlocutory appeal..
___

UPDATE: Yes, the COA will take up their appeal.


Meanwhile the NCAA has asked Judge Padova to reconsider his decision to not certify theirs.
bloomberglaw ($)

UPDATE: Summation of appellants' brief:

https://www.sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/nca...11750.html
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2022 08:28 PM by chester.)
12-28-2021 09:56 PM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
As we wait on the 3rd Circuit's ruling on the interlocutory appeal, plaintiffs' attorney Paul McDonald is making the rounds.

Sportico interview:

Gabe Feldman interview:

More indepth are Richard Ford's podcasts on this and earlier cases:

122: Johnson v NCAA and the Fair Labor Standards Act: The NCAA’s Fact-Free Fantasy World

123: More on the Johnson Lawsuit: The NCAA’s Bizarre Interpretation of Alston

Ford is (rightly IMO) biased toward athletes' rights, but I believe he gives a fair accounting of recent cases.

Pfft, Texas A&M AD thinks no Aggies want the benefits of employment, even though they all "want to go pro."
http://hcut.to/v/xZpQ7fp
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2022 06:52 PM by chester.)
06-28-2022 06:23 PM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
Oral arguments over the interlocutory appeal - Wed, Feb 15 @ 3:30 EST

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KrdlRkcJx-k
02-15-2023 06:00 AM
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RE: Another lawsuit against the NCAA...athletes as work-study students?
Hmm, wonder if this is what breaks basketball loose from the NCAA??
02-15-2023 06:45 AM
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