(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

cite your source on this one please. I've read most of what has been released and I didn't see Trump mention he needed help in the 2020 election. The ONLY source of this is Schiff's blatant lie on the house floor.

(11-06-2019 10:38 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

cite your source on this one please. I've read most of what has been released and I didn't see Trump mention he needed help in the 2020 election. The ONLY source of this is Schiff's blatant lie on the house floor.

Tom probably still believes Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house.

(11-06-2019 10:51 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:38 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

cite your source on this one please. I've read most of what has been released and I didn't see Trump mention he needed help in the 2020 election. The ONLY source of this is Schiff's blatant lie on the house floor.

Tom probably still believes Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house.

(11-06-2019 10:19 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:01 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(11-05-2019 03:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Every attorney's favorite cross examination question, "Were you lying then, or are you lying now?"

Stealing this one verbatim. It's just perfect.

It's not stealing because you have my permission. Thanks for the compliment.

Nice of you, but I highly doubt you're the first one to say this...lol

(11-06-2019 10:26 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

Well, turn about would be fair play...
Trump never needed any help to beat Bumbling Joe. Regardless of what muh polls say.

That all may be well and good, but that doesn't mean they didn't try.

(11-06-2019 11:43 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:19 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:01 AM)Claw Wrote:  

(11-05-2019 03:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Every attorney's favorite cross examination question, "Were you lying then, or are you lying now?"

Stealing this one verbatim. It's just perfect.

It's not stealing because you have my permission. Thanks for the compliment.

Nice of you, but I highly doubt you're the first one to say this...lol

I know I'm not.

(11-06-2019 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

Conspiracies have to be things that actually happened. If there was legitimate reason to believe that the Bidens were engaged in illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior. then is Trump required to let it go because Joe Biden might be the democrat nominee a year from now?

And let's be clear, Joe Biden's threat to withhold a billion dollars of aid, and sleazeball Hunter's wildly excessive compensation, are certainly enough to raise a legitimate specter of illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior.

Except for the pesky fact that Biden was the VP and was putting forth our governments position (and that of the EU and with the blessing of at least 3 GOP senators) to withhold the money.

(11-06-2019 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:26 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.
That about sum it all up guys?

Well, turn about would be fair play...
Trump never needed any help to beat Bumbling Joe. Regardless of what muh polls say.

That all may be well and good, but that doesn't mean they didn't try.

I think in the end it comes down to motivation. If Trump had reasonable belief that the Bidens had engaged in illegal, unethical, or corrupt conduct, then as chief executive he is duty bound to investigate and in the exercise of such powers he has the right to put pressure on foreign governments to assist. And there is ample reason to suspect illegal, unethical, or corrupt conduct conduct on the part of both Bidens.

(11-06-2019 10:38 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

cite your source on this one please. I've read most of what has been released and I didn't see Trump mention he needed help in the 2020 election. The ONLY source of this is Schiff's blatant lie on the house floor.

You didn't understand my post. I'm saying you guys will believe conspiracies that there's some deep state trying to unseat trump but will not even entertain the possibility that trump was trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election. So, I was citing that as an example of a conspiracy, not as a fact.

(11-06-2019 11:48 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:26 AM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.
That about sum it all up guys?

Well, turn about would be fair play...
Trump never needed any help to beat Bumbling Joe. Regardless of what muh polls say.

That all may be well and good, but that doesn't mean they didn't try.

I think in the end it comes down to motivation. If Trump had reasonable belief that the Bidens had engaged in illegal, unethical, or corrupt conduct, then as chief executive he is duty bound to investigate and in the exercise of such powers he has the right to put pressure on foreign governments to assist. And there is ample reason to suspect illegal, unethical, or corrupt conduct conduct on the part of both Bidens.

Again, that all may be fine, but having your personal attorney in rudy in the middle of the investigation, sort of working off the books just plain stinks.

(11-06-2019 11:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

Conspiracies have to be things that actually happened. If there was legitimate reason to believe that the Bidens were engaged in illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior. then is Trump required to let it go because Joe Biden might be the democrat nominee a year from now?
And let's be clear, Joe Biden's threat to withhold a billion dollars of aid, and sleazeball Hunter's wildly excessive compensation, are certainly enough to raise a legitimate specter of illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior.

Except for the pesky fact that Biden was the VP and was putting forth our governments position (and that of the EU and with the blessing of at least 3 GOP senators) to withhold the money.

And in the end WTF difference does that make? Biden was the point man shaping the position of that government. That might be even worse, because what else might he have done? What we do know is that sleaze ball Hunter profited wildly from an arrangement that makes no sense unless something was going on underhandedly.

(11-06-2019 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 11:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

Conspiracies have to be things that actually happened. If there was legitimate reason to believe that the Bidens were engaged in illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior. then is Trump required to let it go because Joe Biden might be the democrat nominee a year from now?
And let's be clear, Joe Biden's threat to withhold a billion dollars of aid, and sleazeball Hunter's wildly excessive compensation, are certainly enough to raise a legitimate specter of illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior.

Except for the pesky fact that Biden was the VP and was putting forth our governments position (and that of the EU and with the blessing of at least 3 GOP senators) to withhold the money.

And in the end WTF difference does that make? Biden was the point man shaping the position of that government. That might be even worse, because what else might he have done? What we do know is that sleaze ball Hunter profited wildly from an arrangement that makes no sense unless something was going on underhandedly.

I posted a Reuters story in another thread, I think, that says the people who worked with Hunter saw him as a worthwhile employee.

Not saying I would agree as he was clearly overpaid with the hope of currying favor with our government, but as you indicate, we need actual facts instead of speculation.

But yes, it does make a difference. You can't claim Biden was doing this just to fire a guy who was looking into Hunter, when there is no proof he was and there is no proof Shokin was looking into ANYTHING! That's why everyone wanted him out, not just Joe.

(11-06-2019 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I posted a Reuters story in another thread, I think, that says the people who worked with Hunter saw him as a worthwhile employee.

He could not possibly have been, except for his ability to gain access.

And "worthwhile employee" does not get you a director's position paying $600K a year.

(11-05-2019 02:55 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Wonder if they threatened his kids and grandkids like they did that other guy

Yep... "changed testimony".

What would cause that?

(11-06-2019 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 11:58 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 11:45 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:33 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

Conspiracies have to be things that actually happened. If there was legitimate reason to believe that the Bidens were engaged in illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior. then is Trump required to let it go because Joe Biden might be the democrat nominee a year from now?
And let's be clear, Joe Biden's threat to withhold a billion dollars of aid, and sleazeball Hunter's wildly excessive compensation, are certainly enough to raise a legitimate specter of illegal, unethical, or corrupt behavior.

Except for the pesky fact that Biden was the VP and was putting forth our governments position (and that of the EU and with the blessing of at least 3 GOP senators) to withhold the money.

And in the end WTF difference does that make? Biden was the point man shaping the position of that government. That might be even worse, because what else might he have done? What we do know is that sleaze ball Hunter profited wildly from an arrangement that makes no sense unless something was going on underhandedly.

I posted a Reuters story in another thread, I think, that says the people who worked with Hunter saw him as a worthwhile employee.

Not saying I would agree as he was clearly overpaid with the hope of currying favor with our government, but as you indicate, we need actual facts instead of speculation.

But yes, it does make a difference. You can't claim Biden was doing this just to fire a guy who was looking into Hunter, when there is no proof he was and there is no proof Shokin was looking into ANYTHING! That's why everyone wanted him out, not just Joe.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...785620002/

"Shokin's office had investigated Burisma, but the probe focused on a period before Hunter Biden joined the company, according to the anti-corruption bureau."

Good thing Biden had the investigation stopped before they got to the period Hunter got there

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

Not exactly.

You guys staked out the liquor store, watched Trump walk in there, and then arrested him before he robbed it.

Trump never used anything from the Ukraine in his campaign. Maybe he would have. Maybe not. But you guys blew your stakeout. He never did anything.

They blew it.

(11-06-2019 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I posted a Reuters story in another thread, I think, that says the people who worked with Hunter saw him as a worthwhile employee.

He could not possibly have been, except for his ability to gain access.

And "worthwhile employee" does not get you a director's position paying $600K a year.

of course he was worthwhile

(11-06-2019 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  But yes, it does make a difference. You can't claim Biden was doing this just to fire a guy who was looking into Hunter, when there is no proof he was and there is no proof Shokin was looking into ANYTHING! That's why everyone wanted him out, not just Joe.

OK, so don't claim that Biden was doing this just to fire a guy who was looking into Hunter.

But what you still have is a clear picture of Biden as a person who wielded considerable leverage with the Ukrainian government, and golly gee, Batman, his son ends up getting an absurdly fat compensation from a Ukrainian company that had been under scrutiny for possible corruption. If those pieces don't suggest that there is more to the puzzle that is worthy of investigation, then I suppose you are just less skeptical than I am. At least when it involves democrats--you know, that party that you don't belong to.

(11-06-2019 12:46 PM)Lush Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 12:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 12:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I posted a Reuters story in another thread, I think, that says the people who worked with Hunter saw him as a worthwhile employee.

He could not possibly have been, except for his ability to gain access.

And "worthwhile employee" does not get you a director's position paying $600K a year.

of course he was worthwhile

How so?

(11-06-2019 11:48 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 10:38 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(11-06-2019 09:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  So, everything is a conspiracy...except trump trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election, that's beyond the pale.

That about sum it all up guys?

cite your source on this one please. I've read most of what has been released and I didn't see Trump mention he needed help in the 2020 election. The ONLY source of this is Schiff's blatant lie on the house floor.

You didn't understand my post. I'm saying you guys will believe conspiracies that there's some deep state trying to unseat trump but will not even entertain the possibility that trump was trying to get Ukraine to help him win the 2020 election. So, I was citing that as an example of a conspiracy, not as a fact.

Gotcha


I'll entertain the possibility, but I need more than people's opinions and assumptions. It would also help if they would actually take a vote on opening and official impeachment inquiry in the whole house like they have in the past.

Too much of the country believes they did this last week and are too ignorant to know all they did was vote on the 'rules' for the 'unofficial' inquiry they are running.