Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
Author Message
IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,551
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 206
I Root For: NIU, Chicago St
Location: South Side
Post: #81
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
DavidSt had impeccable inside sources at the schools in order to know that.
11-06-2019 02:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hammersmith Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 18
I Root For: NDSU
Location:
Post: #82
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 02:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 12:35 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  The only link would be to his head.

Delusional to think that WIU, Indiana State etc would consider FBS. And no, you can't have a FBS only conference.

It wasn't the MVFC, it was a merger between the MVC and WAC. The hold up was Idaho and Seattle, both were not wanted by the MVC for good reason. New Mexico State and Denver would have been merged into the MVC and the MVC would take the WAC's spot at FBS table. Nothing was ever really leaked to the media but I do know talks were in place according to some people I know at Missouri State.

That makes a lot more sense. In discussions like this, that F in MVFC is pretty dang important. Those merger talks must have happened in that narrow window around 2011-2012 before everything fell apart in 2013. The WAC at that moment looks nothing like the WAC of today:

WAC during MVC talks:
SJSU
LA Tech
Utah St
Idaho
NMSU
Denver
UTSA*
Texas St*
UT Arlington*
Seattle*
Nevada*
Fresno St*
Hawaii*

*maybe - depends on exact timing of discussion

Out of all of that, the only schools still left are Seattle and NMSU.
11-06-2019 03:01 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hammersmith Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 18
I Root For: NDSU
Location:
Post: #83
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 09:51 AM)Shox Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 11:47 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  I wish South Dakota had gone to the Big Sky and we could have added NDSU and SDSU to the MVC as all sport members.

It would have made a ton of sense. Both have proven their muster in Olympic sports in the Summit and are the only two schools to win the conference basketball tournament autobid since becoming eligible.

NDSU redid their basketball arena but from all accounts it's still a joke and wouldn't fit the MVC profile. My hunch is that if an MVC invite was on the line, they could get a new one built to meet that threshold. SDSU is about to dump a bunch of money into their arena and it will fit the profile. Who knows though, with Elgin calling the shots, Detroit probably has a better chance.
At one time, I would have loved an MVC invite; now I'm not so sure. While it's true the MVC has lost a little of its luster now that it's not regularly a multi-bid conference, it's more about where NDSU is going. A few years ago, I thought NDSU was best served by in staying in FCS and should work on improving its basketball programs. Trying to get good enough for the MVC was the logical goal. But NDSU has become so dominant in football that I don't think FCS is where we should be. When you look at our athletic department(the facilities, staff, and partnerships), we look much more like a high-level G5 FBS program than anything else. We just don't have a G5 conference nearby to get us into the club. I'm afraid moving to the MVC would cause us to lose our momentum, as we'd be adjusting all our other sports. I just don't think the risk/reward works out right now. Five years ago? Yes. Five years from now? Maybe yes(maybe no). Right now? No.


As for the part I bolded, that's a long story that I'll try to shorten up. Our basketball arena is part of our primary athletic building. It houses almost everything: admin, almost all locker rooms, coaches offices, S&C, sports medicine, nutrition, academic help space, just everything. It was originally built in 1970 and had never been touched all that much. We were absolutely desperate to renovate it and didn't have the money to build new($30-40M vs $60-80M). The state of ND requires projects like this to have 100% of the money up front; no bonding allowed. It makes big projects like this difficult. Since we had to leave the structural steel in place, corners needed to be cut in the design of the arena portion of the facility.

My personal feeling is that they didn't try all that hard to make it perfect because they know it's just a stop-gap until a new arena is built in 10-20 years. They just needed it "good enough" for now. Financially, we just couldn't do a $30-40M rebuild of our support building at the same time as building a brand new $30-40M stand-alone BB arena. So they're letting a little time go by and working on some other projects(dedicated football IPF, softball IPF, OT&F refresh) before returning to fund-raise for a completely new basketball arena. When that happens, I suspect some of the seats will be pulled from the current arena to free up some space for other things, and it will be slightly reconfigured as a very nice wrestling and VB venue.

But that's just me using logic and opinion; no inside info to back it up.
11-06-2019 03:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,124
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 188
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #84
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 01:29 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy.

Who is unhappy in the CAA?

James Madison? If all they wanted was FBS they could have gone yesterday. You're crazy if you don't think Coastal Carolina's Sun Belt spot was theirs if they wanted it. I think they'd move if the right offer came, but it isn't.

Stony Brook? The former AD talked a big game about FBS. He's gone. The new AD hasn't breathed a word about it in 6 years. The NY legislature isn't shoveling money into college campuses to prop up D-I sports.

William & Mary, Richmond, or Villanova? Villanova had its chance to go FBS and declined. All three are perenially rumored to the Patriot to "de-emphasize" football. All three would be welcomed with open arms. None have moved.

Delaware? Delaware isn't the same Delaware it once was. Maybe they could have pulled off FBS 20 years ago, but it's been a pretty steady decline.

Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Albany? The alternative is a northeastern based football conference with subpar local rivals like Bryant, Merrimack, and Central Connecticut. They'd rather play in one of the 2-3 best FCS conferences, particularly because they have to recruit the mid-Atlantic.

Elon? If Elon is anything other than happy to be a part of something, they are delusional.

Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel, Charleston? If the A-10 called any of them, they'd answer on the first ring. The A-10 isn't calling. So they are where they are.

Who does that leave? Towson? Is Towson unhappy?

They football members wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as full members. It was Hofstra and Northeastern blocking them to join. The football members in the CAA are upset with the non-football members.
11-06-2019 03:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,124
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 188
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #85
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 02:04 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 12:35 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 12:17 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 05:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 09:06 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  I would have to see some solid corroboration before I would believe that. Unless we were talking about a decade or more ago when the WAC was completely different. Or before the xDSUs joined the Gateway/MVFC. Because we've heard absolutely nothing along those lines for as long as we've been in the conference. And that would have been reported all over our local media and fan boards if there were any grain of truth to it.

It was when the WAC was still sponsoring FBS football in their last year. After the WAC's beat writer Tweeted the news, Northern Iowa announced that they wanted FBS, and Missouri State spending money to upgrade their stadium. This was like 2013 I think. MVFC have most of their teams already have the capacity to go FBS. South Dakota needed to add more seats first.

New Mexico State
Lamar
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
W. Illinois
S. Illinois
Illinois State
N. Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

That would keep North Dakota stuck in the Big Sky and Augustana and St. Thomas might be stuck unless they get in the Pioneer.

Do you have a link to any of this? You can't have a football-only FBS conference under the rules. So how would the WAC have continued to exist that way?

The only link would be to his head.

Delusional to think that WIU, Indiana State etc would consider FBS. And no, you can't have a FBS only conference.

It wasn't the MVFC, it was a merger between the MVC and WAC. The hold up was Idaho and Seattle, both were not wanted by the MVC for good reason. New Mexico State and Denver would have been merged into the MVC and the MVC would take the WAC's spot at FBS table. Nothing was ever really leaked to the media but I do know talks were in place according to some people I know at Missouri State.



The Summitt football schools would be football only. At the time of the talks, it was not a football only conference. They still had some non-football members including Denver at the time, UTA and the Texas football schools and La. Tech. Grand Canyon was announced to be joining soon after.
11-06-2019 03:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ccd494 Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 12
I Root For: Maine
Location:
Post: #86
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 03:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They football members wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as full members. It was Hofstra and Northeastern blocking them to join. The football members in the CAA are upset with the non-football members.

Stony Brook and Albany are already full members of the CAA Football conference, which is a distinct entity from the CAA. Want to try again?
11-06-2019 04:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 13,124
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 188
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #87
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 04:03 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 03:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They football members wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as full members. It was Hofstra and Northeastern blocking them to join. The football members in the CAA are upset with the non-football members.

Stony Brook and Albany are already full members of the CAA Football conference, which is a distinct entity from the CAA. Want to try again?


James Madison and the other football schools want Stony Brook and Albany to join as full members and not just for football. That includes men's basketball and all that. Hofstra and Northeastern joined the CAA as full members because of their football. If the rest of the CAA knew ahead of time that those two schools screwed the football membership by dropping football? They would not have been invited.
11-06-2019 05:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,174
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #88
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 04:03 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 03:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They football members wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as full members. It was Hofstra and Northeastern blocking them to join. The football members in the CAA are upset with the non-football members.

Stony Brook and Albany are already full members of the CAA Football conference, which is a distinct entity from the CAA. Want to try again?

There's no separate CAA football conference. It's not like the MVFC. There are just CAA members with FB and FB-only affiliates.
11-06-2019 05:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,746
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 81
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #89
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
When it became clear that getting enough call ups from the Western states to completely rebuild the WAC plan B was to try to cobble enough western schools for a division and then recruit from another region for the other, with the Southland and/or MVFC being the target areas.

Obviously no one bit and it never came to pass.
11-06-2019 06:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,174
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #90
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
Had the Big Sky been successful in its bid to draw in all four Dakota schools (if that actually was the goal), it would have become the perhaps unquestionably strongest FCS conference, although even more of a b*tch for travel.

Also, pods!

East: North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota, South Dakota State
North: Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State
South: Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Weber State, Southern Utah
West: Cal Poly, Portland State, Sacramento State, UC Davis

Idaho dropping down would throw a bit of a wrench in the works though.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2019 07:33 PM by Nerdlinger.)
11-06-2019 07:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,746
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 81
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #91
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 07:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Had the Big Sky been successful in its bid to draw in all four Dakota schools (if that actually was the goal), it would have become the perhaps unquestionably strongest FCS conference, although even more of a b*tch for travel.

Also, pods!

East: North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota, South Dakota State
North: Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State
South: Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Weber State, Southern Utah
West: Cal Poly, Portland State, Sacramento State, UC Davis

Idaho dropping down would throw a bit of a wrench in the works though.

That’s a pretty beastly FCS conference and it was definitely the vision they were going for.

Cutting the MVFC down to 7 schools would have been pretty rough.
11-06-2019 09:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,174
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #92
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 09:30 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 07:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Had the Big Sky been successful in its bid to draw in all four Dakota schools (if that actually was the goal), it would have become the perhaps unquestionably strongest FCS conference, although even more of a b*tch for travel.

Also, pods!

East: North Dakota, North Dakota State, South Dakota, South Dakota State
North: Eastern Washington, Idaho State, Montana, Montana State
South: Northern Arizona, Northern Colorado, Weber State, Southern Utah
West: Cal Poly, Portland State, Sacramento State, UC Davis

Idaho dropping down would throw a bit of a wrench in the works though.

That’s a pretty beastly FCS conference and it was definitely the vision they were going for.

Cutting the MVFC down to 7 schools would have been pretty rough.

At that point, the MVFC could just officially merge with the MVC, since 5 out of the 7 remaining schools are MVC members. WIU and YSU become FB-only affiliates. Perhaps the MVC picks up EIU as another FB-only to round it out to 8. If the OVC doesn't want EIU after that, the Horizon might take them. Not sure if that's a step down or up or sideways. If the Dakota schools are full Big Sky members and not just FB affiliates, the Summit would be hurting for members. They'd certainly take EIU, though that seems like a step down.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2019 09:56 PM by Nerdlinger.)
11-06-2019 09:45 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hammersmith Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 18
I Root For: NDSU
Location:
Post: #93
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 09:45 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  At that point, the MVFC could just officially merge with the MVC, since 5 out of the 7 remaining schools are MVC members. WIU and YSU become FB-only affiliates. Perhaps the MVC picks up EIU as another FB-only to round it out to 8. If the OVC doesn't want EIU after that, the Horizon might take them. Not sure if that's a step down or up or sideways. If the Dakota schools are full Big Sky members and not just FB affiliates, the Summit would be hurting for members. They'd certainly take EIU, though that seems like a step down.

If Fullerton's plan would have worked, there would have been no saving the Summit. Centenary had just left, and ORU was likely in early talks for the Southland by this point. Oakland was only a year away from being offered a Horizon slot, and UNO hadn't started the DI transition yet. If SUU, NDSU, SDSU, USD & UND all went to the Big Sky, ORU went to the Southland, and Oakland went to the Horizon all within a year or two, the Summit would have been left with only WIU, IPFW, IUPUI and UMKC. You don't come back from that.

On the MVFC side, it's possible WIU would be forced out of DI by the collapse of the Summit. YSU, always an eastern outlier in the MVFC, might look further east for a new home; maybe OVC or CAA. At that point, the MVFC is down to just five teams and in danger of losing its autobid if it doesn't find a sixth member quick. Regardless, it's a shell of it's former self and no threat to the new super-Big Sky
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2019 11:02 PM by Hammersmith.)
11-06-2019 10:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hammersmith Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 18
I Root For: NDSU
Location:
Post: #94
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
BTW, the 2012 Big Sky realignment is a textbook case in why the grand realignment plans(like NoDak's) almost never work out in real life. There were five immediate parts to the plan and two delayed. When only one piece failed to happen as planned, the whole thing fell apart. There's a reason why almost every realignment is either a single school or two, or else a cascade of one or two moves causing the next one or two moves and so on. Big plans with lots of moving parts just don't work out.
11-06-2019 11:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,174
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #95
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 10:57 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 09:45 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  At that point, the MVFC could just officially merge with the MVC, since 5 out of the 7 remaining schools are MVC members. WIU and YSU become FB-only affiliates. Perhaps the MVC picks up EIU as another FB-only to round it out to 8. If the OVC doesn't want EIU after that, the Horizon might take them. Not sure if that's a step down or up or sideways. If the Dakota schools are full Big Sky members and not just FB affiliates, the Summit would be hurting for members. They'd certainly take EIU, though that seems like a step down.

If Fullerton's plan would have worked, there would have been no saving the Summit. Centenary had just left, and ORU was likely in early talks for the Southland by this point. Oakland was only a year away from being offered a Horizon slot, and UNO hadn't started the DI transition yet. If SUU, NDSU, SDSU, USD & UND all went to the Big Sky, ORU went to the Southland, and Oakland went to the Horizon all within a year or two, the Summit would have been left with only WIU, IPFW, IUPUI and UMKC. You don't come back from that.

On the MVFC side, it's possible WIU would be forced out of DI by the collapse of the Summit. YSU, always an eastern outlier in the MVFC, might look further east for a new home; maybe OVC or CAA. At that point, the MVFC is down to just five teams and in danger of losing its autobid if it doesn't find a sixth member quick. Regardless, it's a shell of it's former self and no threat to the new super-Big Sky

Fair points. However, if the move of the XDSU schools to the Big Sky were delayed until 2013, maybe the Summit could just barely have scraped by.

2012-13 Summit (8-9): Fort Wayne, IUPUI, North Dakota State, Oakland, Omaha, South Dakota State, UMKC, Western Illinois (+ South Dakota?)

(South Dakota might not have stopped off in the Summit and instead gone directly from the Great West to the Big Sky.)

2013-14 Summit (6): Denver, Eastern Illinois, Fort Wayne, IUPUI, Omaha, Western Illinois

They're non-compliant for a season until Oral Roberts returns in 2014 to bring them up to 7. But yeah, it does seem unlikely that schools would be flocking to the Summit in this scenario. More likely ORU sticks with the Southland and Denver with the WAC, for instance.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2019 11:55 PM by Nerdlinger.)
11-06-2019 11:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ccd494 Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 64
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 12
I Root For: Maine
Location:
Post: #96
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 05:44 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 04:03 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 03:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They football members wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as full members. It was Hofstra and Northeastern blocking them to join. The football members in the CAA are upset with the non-football members.

Stony Brook and Albany are already full members of the CAA Football conference, which is a distinct entity from the CAA. Want to try again?

There's no separate CAA football conference. It's not like the MVFC. There are just CAA members with FB and FB-only affiliates.

Incorrect. The football only schools are not affiliates.

"The CAA Football Conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007, as a separate conference independent of the CAA, but administered by the CAA front office. For this reason, there are no true "football associate members" as every member of CAA Football is a full-member of the football-only conference."

It is immaterial whether Albany are Stony Brook are all sports members of the CAA. They get the same amount of say over the football league as they would otherwise.
11-08-2019 08:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,174
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #97
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-08-2019 08:15 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 05:44 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 04:03 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 03:38 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  They football members wanted Stony Brook and Albany in as full members. It was Hofstra and Northeastern blocking them to join. The football members in the CAA are upset with the non-football members.

Stony Brook and Albany are already full members of the CAA Football conference, which is a distinct entity from the CAA. Want to try again?

There's no separate CAA football conference. It's not like the MVFC. There are just CAA members with FB and FB-only affiliates.

Incorrect. The football only schools are not affiliates.

"The CAA Football Conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007, as a separate conference independent of the CAA, but administered by the CAA front office. For this reason, there are no true "football associate members" as every member of CAA Football is a full-member of the football-only conference."

It is immaterial whether Albany are Stony Brook are all sports members of the CAA. They get the same amount of say over the football league as they would otherwise.

Typically when you quote a source, you also provide a link to that source.... 07-coffee3
11-08-2019 09:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hammersmith Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 74
Joined: Jul 2014
Reputation: 18
I Root For: NDSU
Location:
Post: #98
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-08-2019 09:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-08-2019 08:15 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  Incorrect. The football only schools are not affiliates.

"The CAA Football Conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007, as a separate conference independent of the CAA, but administered by the CAA front office. For this reason, there are no true "football associate members" as every member of CAA Football is a full-member of the football-only conference."

It is immaterial whether Albany are Stony Brook are all sports members of the CAA. They get the same amount of say over the football league as they would otherwise.

Typically when you quote a source, you also provide a link to that source.... 07-coffee3

He got it from Wikipedia, but no original source is listed there. The CAA does seem to have separate documentation for the CAA and CAAF. I came across this page while searching for CAA or CAAF bylaws:

https://caasports.com/sports/2015/9/28/H...cies.aspx?

Also, the conference splits itself in its official mailing address:

https://caasports.com/staff.aspx

It's circumstantial, but it does seem to suggest the two conferences are separate entities on paper. On the flip side, the CAA does not have separate staff titles like the MVC/MVFC does. Over at the MVFC, the staff have MVFC titles while also having separate MVC titles(Patty Viverito is commissioner of the MVFC and senior associate commissioner of the MVC, etc.). In the CAA, there is only a single set of staff titles.
11-08-2019 09:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,746
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 81
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #99
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 10:57 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 09:45 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  At that point, the MVFC could just officially merge with the MVC, since 5 out of the 7 remaining schools are MVC members. WIU and YSU become FB-only affiliates. Perhaps the MVC picks up EIU as another FB-only to round it out to 8. If the OVC doesn't want EIU after that, the Horizon might take them. Not sure if that's a step down or up or sideways. If the Dakota schools are full Big Sky members and not just FB affiliates, the Summit would be hurting for members. They'd certainly take EIU, though that seems like a step down.

If Fullerton's plan would have worked, there would have been no saving the Summit. Centenary had just left, and ORU was likely in early talks for the Southland by this point. Oakland was only a year away from being offered a Horizon slot, and UNO hadn't started the DI transition yet. If SUU, NDSU, SDSU, USD & UND all went to the Big Sky, ORU went to the Southland, and Oakland went to the Horizon all within a year or two, the Summit would have been left with only WIU, IPFW, IUPUI and UMKC. You don't come back from that.

On the MVFC side, it's possible WIU would be forced out of DI by the collapse of the Summit. YSU, always an eastern outlier in the MVFC, might look further east for a new home; maybe OVC or CAA. At that point, the MVFC is down to just five teams and in danger of losing its autobid if it doesn't find a sixth member quick. Regardless, it's a shell of it's former self and no threat to the new super-Big Sky

Had the Summit been reduced to just UMKC, WIU, IPFW, and IUPUI I think they have a couple of options:

Merger with the WAC: Chi St plays in the East with those 4, the rest play in the West; they sell the shell of the conference to the C-USA schools who promptly splits into two legal entities

Rebuild with a waiver: plausible if the NCAA works with them, some Midwest/upper south schools are bound to crawl out of the woodwork right?

Merger with the A-Sun: another league on the fringes of having enough members

Merger with the Horizon: they ultimately took 2 of the 4 eventually.
11-08-2019 11:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Nerdlinger Offline
Realignment Enthusiast
*

Posts: 2,174
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 97
I Root For: Realignment!
Location: :uoᴉʇɐɔo⌉
Post: #100
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-08-2019 09:51 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-08-2019 09:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-08-2019 08:15 PM)ccd494 Wrote:  Incorrect. The football only schools are not affiliates.

"The CAA Football Conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007, as a separate conference independent of the CAA, but administered by the CAA front office. For this reason, there are no true "football associate members" as every member of CAA Football is a full-member of the football-only conference."

It is immaterial whether Albany are Stony Brook are all sports members of the CAA. They get the same amount of say over the football league as they would otherwise.

Typically when you quote a source, you also provide a link to that source.... 07-coffee3

He got it from Wikipedia, but no original source is listed there. The CAA does seem to have separate documentation for the CAA and CAAF. I came across this page while searching for CAA or CAAF bylaws:

https://caasports.com/sports/2015/9/28/H...cies.aspx?

Also, the conference splits itself in its official mailing address:

https://caasports.com/staff.aspx

It's circumstantial, but it does seem to suggest the two conferences are separate entities on paper. On the flip side, the CAA does not have separate staff titles like the MVC/MVFC does. Over at the MVFC, the staff have MVFC titles while also having separate MVC titles(Patty Viverito is commissioner of the MVFC and senior associate commissioner of the MVC, etc.). In the CAA, there is only a single set of staff titles.

I would think if CAA football were an actual full-fledged FB-only FCS conference that there would be no need for an associate/affiliate member designation. There's only one sport, so you're either a member or not.
11-09-2019 08:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2019 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2019 MyBB Group.