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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-04-2019 07:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 07:53 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 06:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 05:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Had the Montanas upgraded and joined the WAC others would have followed, possibly the 3 CA schools.

With what money?

UC-Davis may have been able to pull it off. Sac and Poly? Nope. Unless they wanted to be the dregs of FBS budgets.



None of the other Big Sky schools have funding - Montana would have had to add multiple sports and 60+ scholarships just to meet NCAA FBS minimums.

As of 2017 (last year data available) - the only Big Sky schools that met NCAA minimum FBS requirements for scholarships were Sac State, NAU and UC-Davis.

davis didn't have the leadership in place when all this was going down. Benson just needed one CA FCS to move and the rest would have followed. Sac State would have been the best target of the 3 at the time. I recall all this going down when the CA budget was shot so I think that is what ultimately kept the CA FCS schools from moving. Had the CA FCS moved, the Montana's would have followed.

Idaho
NMSU
Texas State
UTSA
La Tech
Utah State
SJSU
Sac State
Cal Poly
davis
Montana's

12 FB programs that would have gave the WAC a buffer for future poaching (LaTech and TX schools).

Foolerton gets credit for outmaneuvering Benson during this whole ordeal and keeping the BSC and other potential FCS moveups (CP, davis) from joining a desperate WAC.

As far as what happens now, I think a FB only FCS conference can happen if a couple more "western" D2 schools make the move. What the Dixie State move shows is that scheduling as an FCS independent is not as difficult as it may seem. But long term it will be interesting to see how sustainable the scheduling becomes.

LA Tech was gone the minute C-USA had an opening - too much of an outlier.

Whether UTSA or Texas State would have stuck around is an interesting question - both are semi-outliers in the conference they moved too.

I have a hard time seeing Utah State or San Jose State turning down a MWC invite, although had the above occurred, the MWC might have waited to see if a better candidate than SJSU emerged. Utah State was a no-brainer to get them back in Utah.

Another thing that hurt the WAC was the 12-game conference championship rule - which has since been waived. Would the MWC been so eager to go to 12 if that didn't exist?

Timing was against the WAC when all this happened.

I think Utah State and SJSU were the last to go MWC, and I always felt they were adds just because. Maybe one of their fans/posters can add some context.
11-04-2019 08:09 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
They were the last two adds

Nice summary here:

On June 11, 2010, Boise State University agreed to join the conference as its tenth member. On June 17, 2010, Utah announced it would be leaving the Mountain West to join what would become the Pac-12 Conference. On August 18, 2010, amidst rumors that BYU was considering leaving the Mountain West to go independent in football and rejoin the Western Athletic Conference in all other sports, the Mountain West Conference officially extended invitations to California State University, Fresno (Fresno State) and the University of Nevada, Reno (Nevada). Both schools accepted and would become the tenth and eleventh members of the league.[3][4] BYU announced on August 31, 2010 that it would leave the Mountain West Conference and go Independent in football and become a member of the West Coast Conference (WCC) in other sports starting in 2011.[5] On November 29, 2010, TCU announced all athletic teams would move to the Big East Conference effective in 2012.[6] (Less than a year later, on October 10, 2011, TCU announced it would not join the Big East but would join the Big 12, home to fellow former SWC members Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, and formerly Texas A&M, in 2012 instead.)[7] On December 10, 2010, the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa accepted a bid to become the 10th member of the conference for football only.[8] These changes would leave the Mountain West Conference with 10 teams for the 2012 football season.

During the era of football's Bowl Championship Series (BCS), which was replaced by the College Football Playoff (CFP) in 2014, the MW champion qualified for a BCS bowl four times after the BCS formula was tweaked to allow teams from non-BCS conferences to play in BCS bowls if ranked in the top 12. However, two of the three schools that qualified are no longer with the conference.

On October 14, 2011, the Mountain West and C-USA announced a plan for a football only alliance.[9] On February 13, 2012, the two leagues announced that both conferences would be dissolving after the 2012–13 season to reform into one conference with at least 15 members for all sports, and a 16th team, University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa as a football-only member.[10] However, when the two conferences discussed their plans with the NCAA, they were told that due to NCAA rules, they would forfeit substantial revenues. Specifically, the new conference would receive only one automatic bid to NCAA championships; at least one of the former conferences would lose future revenue distributions from the NCAA men's basketball tournament; and at least one former conference would not be able to collect exit fees from any members that departed to join the new conference.[11] As a result, the Mountain West and C-USA backed away from a full merger. In late March of that year, the commissioners of both conferences stated that all 16 schools had entered into binding agreements to form a new "association",[12] although the Mountain West and C-USA would have apparently remained separate legal entities.[11] In the end, this alliance never materialized due to both conferences soon adding new teams.

On May 2, 2012, San Jose State and Utah State agreed to join the conference for the 2013–14 academic year. On December 31 of that year, Boise State announced that it had backed out of its previously announced move to the Big East for football and the Big West for other sports, and would remain in the MW.[13]

On January 16, 2013, San Diego State accepted an offer to remain/return to the Mountain West Conference in all sports. Keeping SDSU in the conference gives the Mountain West 12 football members, allowing for a Championship Game to be held. The first championship game took place on December 7, 2013.[14]
11-04-2019 08:15 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
Just like I thought, SJSU and Utah State were not needed. Probably added to chase markets for a TV deal that never came.
11-04-2019 08:32 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-04-2019 08:32 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Just like I thought, SJSU and Utah State were not needed. Probably added to chase markets for a TV deal that never came.

At the time, Boise and SDSU were Big East bound, so SJSU and USU were added to keep the conference at 10 FB members.
11-04-2019 08:34 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-04-2019 08:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:32 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Just like I thought, SJSU and Utah State were not needed. Probably added to chase markets for a TV deal that never came.

At the time, Boise and SDSU were Big East bound, so SJSU and USU were added to keep the conference at 10 FB members.

Hindsight is 20-20, but the MWC should have toughed it out. It was pretty obvious the backlash Boise and SDSU would have faced from donors had they actually parked their Oly sports in the BW bus league for the sake of flying their FB programs to the east coast. That whole BE deal was just never going to be sustainable.
11-04-2019 08:47 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-04-2019 08:47 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:32 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Just like I thought, SJSU and Utah State were not needed. Probably added to chase markets for a TV deal that never came.

At the time, Boise and SDSU were Big East bound, so SJSU and USU were added to keep the conference at 10 FB members.

Hindsight is 20-20, but the MWC should have toughed it out. It was pretty obvious the backlash Boise and SDSU would have faced from donors had they actually parked their Oly sports in the BW bus league for the sake of flying their FB programs to the east coast. That whole BE deal was just never going to be sustainable.

"Toughing it out" would have meant having fewer than the required number of full FB-playing members to remain FBS.
11-04-2019 09:35 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-04-2019 09:35 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:47 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:32 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Just like I thought, SJSU and Utah State were not needed. Probably added to chase markets for a TV deal that never came.

At the time, Boise and SDSU were Big East bound, so SJSU and USU were added to keep the conference at 10 FB members.

Hindsight is 20-20, but the MWC should have toughed it out. It was pretty obvious the backlash Boise and SDSU would have faced from donors had they actually parked their Oly sports in the BW bus league for the sake of flying their FB programs to the east coast. That whole BE deal was just never going to be sustainable.

"Toughing it out" would have meant having fewer than the required number of full FB-playing members to remain FBS.

8 members is the minimum for FBS FB conferences, no? Turned out Boise and SDSU needed the MWC more than the MWC needed Boise and SDSU. They could have toughed it out.
11-04-2019 11:10 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-04-2019 11:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 09:35 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:47 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:32 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  Just like I thought, SJSU and Utah State were not needed. Probably added to chase markets for a TV deal that never came.

At the time, Boise and SDSU were Big East bound, so SJSU and USU were added to keep the conference at 10 FB members.

Hindsight is 20-20, but the MWC should have toughed it out. It was pretty obvious the backlash Boise and SDSU would have faced from donors had they actually parked their Oly sports in the BW bus league for the sake of flying their FB programs to the east coast. That whole BE deal was just never going to be sustainable.

"Toughing it out" would have meant having fewer than the required number of full FB-playing members to remain FBS.

8 members is the minimum for FBS FB conferences, no? Turned out Boise and SDSU needed the MWC more than the MWC needed Boise and SDSU. They could have toughed it out.
MWC had 7, not 8, without SDSU and BSU. Hawaii is a Footbsll-only. .
11-05-2019 12:22 AM
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Hammersmith Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
Out here in Bison country, we remember Fullerton more as a used car salesman rather than a trash talker. He would tell everyone what they wanted to hear no matter if he could back it up or not. Here's what it looked like from our end. (dates are approximate because I'm not interested in the digging to get them exactly correct - sorry)

2004ish: The first big wave of realignments hasn't started yet. SDSU and NDSU are moving up to DI. Fullerton thinks they'd be good members but can't convince his presidents. Northern Colorado is added as a compromise, which backfires after a major UNC donor backs out of their donation.

2008ish: By now it's clear that letting the xDSUs get away was a mistake. Also, all the talk in the realignment world is about 16-team superconferences. Everyone is expecting the Big 12 and Big East to be ripped apart as the Pac10, Big Ten, SEC, and ACC all strip them of their best assets to get to 16 teams each. Supposition: Fullerton agrees and starts looking at ways to get the Big Sky to 16 as well as blocking any defections to the WAC.

2010ish: Fullerton convinces Montana and the others to stay put by turning the Big Sky into an FCS superconference, unchallenged in FCS west of the Mississippi. The Summit is looking a little shaky with poachings from the Horizon and Southland, with more expected to come from trickle-down realignment. If Fullerton can steal away all possible Summit expansion members plus an existing school, the Summit will be on the verge of crumpling with just one or two other poachings. He convinces his presidents that by taking SUU(current Summit), USD(already accepted by Summit), & UND(will be getting invite as soon as Sioux situation is solved*), the Summit will start to fall apart and NDSU & SDSU will then accept a Big Sky invite. Along with UCD & CP, that will give the Big Sky 16 football schools and 14 full members. The Summit will be destroyed and the MVFC crippled.

2010ish cont.: Realizing the danger, the Summit and MVFC quickly offer USD a football home. USD changes their mind(again) and Fullerton's plan blows up in the Big Sky's face. Now they've got an unwieldy number of teams, an extreme eastern outlier in UND, and no hope to get the xDSUs. Fullerton's image takes a big hit with the presidents.

2013ish: Fullerton has one last gasp of creating a super-Big Sky. (And this is where most of NoDak's theories started.) The WAC is teetering on the edge, the Big Sky is unwieldy, and both are becoming afterthoughts in their respective subdivisions. Idaho's AD is desperately searching for any way to prevent them from dropping to FCS and is getting into an open pissing war with his own president. Him and Fullerton start to float the idea of a hybrid conference; half FBS, half FCS. The surviving WAC and top Big Sky schools(and maybe the xDSUs) will become the FBS half, and the remainder will stay FCS. For all other sports, they will be one giant conference with two or three divisions to keep costs down and rivalries together. After a few years, the conference would re-sort itself once the FBS schools had been playing together long enough to satisfy the NCAA requirements. The big problem: none of the Big Sky presidents are interested. The idea gains absolutely no traction, and the only person to talk about it is Idaho's AD(and NoDak - repeatedly - ad nauseam). The writing is on the wall, and Fullerton announces his retirement within a year or two.


Did the Big Sky/Fullerton contribute to the WAC folding? Yes. Definitely a secondary or tertiary factor, but it was a small factor. By doing whatever possible to prevent Big Sky schools from leaving(including introducing wild expansion plans), they dried up almost all the football possibilities the WAC could use to backfill with. It was exactly what Fullerton tried to do to the Summit by trying to grab SUU, UND & USD. Would the WAC have folded even without Fullerton's actions? Probably. But his actions finished closing the final door to the WAC as an FBS conference.


At least that's what it all looked like from here.



*That's a fascinating story, but not about the Big Sky or Fullerton. I'm convinced Douple was working with Kelly(UND prez) behind the scenes, but few up at UND are willing to believe it. Some UND fans still haaaaaaate Douple. lol
11-05-2019 03:51 AM
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Post: #70
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
Great post Hammersmith, thank you for recounting the story.
11-05-2019 05:19 AM
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Post: #71
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-05-2019 03:51 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:  Out here in Bison country, we remember Fullerton more as a used car salesman rather than a trash talker. He would tell everyone what they wanted to hear no matter if he could back it up or not. Here's what it looked like from our end. (dates are approximate because I'm not interested in the digging to get them exactly correct - sorry)

2004ish: The first big wave of realignments hasn't started yet. SDSU and NDSU are moving up to DI. Fullerton thinks they'd be good members but can't convince his presidents. Northern Colorado is added as a compromise, which backfires after a major UNC donor backs out of their donation.

2008ish: By now it's clear that letting the xDSUs get away was a mistake. Also, all the talk in the realignment world is about 16-team superconferences. Everyone is expecting the Big 12 and Big East to be ripped apart as the Pac10, Big Ten, SEC, and ACC all strip them of their best assets to get to 16 teams each. Supposition: Fullerton agrees and starts looking at ways to get the Big Sky to 16 as well as blocking any defections to the WAC.

2010ish: Fullerton convinces Montana and the others to stay put by turning the Big Sky into an FCS superconference, unchallenged in FCS west of the Mississippi. The Summit is looking a little shaky with poachings from the Horizon and Southland, with more expected to come from trickle-down realignment. If Fullerton can steal away all possible Summit expansion members plus an existing school, the Summit will be on the verge of crumpling with just one or two other poachings. He convinces his presidents that by taking SUU(current Summit), USD(already accepted by Summit), & UND(will be getting invite as soon as Sioux situation is solved*), the Summit will start to fall apart and NDSU & SDSU will then accept a Big Sky invite. Along with UCD & CP, that will give the Big Sky 16 football schools and 14 full members. The Summit will be destroyed and the MVFC crippled.

2010ish cont.: Realizing the danger, the Summit and MVFC quickly offer USD a football home. USD changes their mind(again) and Fullerton's plan blows up in the Big Sky's face. Now they've got an unwieldy number of teams, an extreme eastern outlier in UND, and no hope to get the xDSUs. Fullerton's image takes a big hit with the presidents.

2013ish: Fullerton has one last gasp of creating a super-Big Sky. (And this is where most of NoDak's theories started.) The WAC is teetering on the edge, the Big Sky is unwieldy, and both are becoming afterthoughts in their respective subdivisions. Idaho's AD is desperately searching for any way to prevent them from dropping to FCS and is getting into an open pissing war with his own president. Him and Fullerton start to float the idea of a hybrid conference; half FBS, half FCS. The surviving WAC and top Big Sky schools(and maybe the xDSUs) will become the FBS half, and the remainder will stay FCS. For all other sports, they will be one giant conference with two or three divisions to keep costs down and rivalries together. After a few years, the conference would re-sort itself once the FBS schools had been playing together long enough to satisfy the NCAA requirements. The big problem: none of the Big Sky presidents are interested. The idea gains absolutely no traction, and the only person to talk about it is Idaho's AD(and NoDak - repeatedly - ad nauseam). The writing is on the wall, and Fullerton announces his retirement within a year or two.


Did the Big Sky/Fullerton contribute to the WAC folding? Yes. Definitely a secondary or tertiary factor, but it was a small factor. By doing whatever possible to prevent Big Sky schools from leaving(including introducing wild expansion plans), they dried up almost all the football possibilities the WAC could use to backfill with. It was exactly what Fullerton tried to do to the Summit by trying to grab SUU, UND & USD. Would the WAC have folded even without Fullerton's actions? Probably. But his actions finished closing the final door to the WAC as an FBS conference.


At least that's what it all looked like from here.



*That's a fascinating story, but not about the Big Sky or Fullerton. I'm convinced Douple was working with Kelly(UND prez) behind the scenes, but few up at UND are willing to believe it. Some UND fans still haaaaaaate Douple. lol

I wish South Dakota had gone to the Big Sky and we could have added NDSU and SDSU to the MVC as all sport members.
11-05-2019 11:47 AM
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Post: #72
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-05-2019 12:22 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 11:10 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 09:35 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:47 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  
(11-04-2019 08:34 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  At the time, Boise and SDSU were Big East bound, so SJSU and USU were added to keep the conference at 10 FB members.

Hindsight is 20-20, but the MWC should have toughed it out. It was pretty obvious the backlash Boise and SDSU would have faced from donors had they actually parked their Oly sports in the BW bus league for the sake of flying their FB programs to the east coast. That whole BE deal was just never going to be sustainable.

"Toughing it out" would have meant having fewer than the required number of full FB-playing members to remain FBS.

8 members is the minimum for FBS FB conferences, no? Turned out Boise and SDSU needed the MWC more than the MWC needed Boise and SDSU. They could have toughed it out.
MWC had 7, not 8, without SDSU and BSU. Hawaii is a Football-only.

Bingo.
11-05-2019 05:56 PM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #73
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy. MVFC schools tried to do a merger as football only for FBS with the WAC with one condition. Idaho needed to leave the conference. There is a questioned now since Idaho is not in the WAC, you wonder if there would be another talk to try it again? You could trade Tarleton State to Southland for Lamar. Dixie State have plans to go to 15,000 seats.

Now, how would the Montana schools react since they wanted the Dakota schools?
11-05-2019 08:29 PM
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Hammersmith Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy. MVFC schools tried to do a merger as football only for FBS with the WAC with one condition. Idaho needed to leave the conference. There is a questioned now since Idaho is not in the WAC, you wonder if there would be another talk to try it again? You could trade Tarleton State to Southland for Lamar. Dixie State have plans to go to 15,000 seats.

Now, how would the Montana schools react since they wanted the Dakota schools?
I would have to see some solid corroboration before I would believe that. Unless we were talking about a decade or more ago when the WAC was completely different. Or before the xDSUs joined the Gateway/MVFC. Because we've heard absolutely nothing along those lines for as long as we've been in the conference. And that would have been reported all over our local media and fan boards if there were any grain of truth to it.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2019 09:06 PM by Hammersmith.)
11-05-2019 09:06 PM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #75
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-05-2019 09:06 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy. MVFC schools tried to do a merger as football only for FBS with the WAC with one condition. Idaho needed to leave the conference. There is a questioned now since Idaho is not in the WAC, you wonder if there would be another talk to try it again? You could trade Tarleton State to Southland for Lamar. Dixie State have plans to go to 15,000 seats.

Now, how would the Montana schools react since they wanted the Dakota schools?
I would have to see some solid corroboration before I would believe that. Unless we were talking about a decade or more ago when the WAC was completely different. Or before the xDSUs joined the Gateway/MVFC. Because we've heard absolutely nothing along those lines for as long as we've been in the conference. And that would have been reported all over our local media and fan boards if there were any grain of truth to it.

It was when the WAC was still sponsoring FBS football in their last year. After the WAC's beat writer Tweeted the news, Northern Iowa announced that they wanted FBS, and Missouri State spending money to upgrade their stadium. This was like 2013 I think. MVFC have most of their teams already have the capacity to go FBS. South Dakota needed to add more seats first.

New Mexico State
Lamar
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
W. Illinois
S. Illinois
Illinois State
N. Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

That would keep North Dakota stuck in the Big Sky and Augustana and St. Thomas might be stuck unless they get in the Pioneer.
11-06-2019 05:42 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-05-2019 11:47 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 03:51 AM)Hammersmith Wrote:  Out here in Bison country, we remember Fullerton more as a used car salesman rather than a trash talker. He would tell everyone what they wanted to hear no matter if he could back it up or not. Here's what it looked like from our end. (dates are approximate because I'm not interested in the digging to get them exactly correct - sorry)

2004ish: The first big wave of realignments hasn't started yet. SDSU and NDSU are moving up to DI. Fullerton thinks they'd be good members but can't convince his presidents. Northern Colorado is added as a compromise, which backfires after a major UNC donor backs out of their donation.

2008ish: By now it's clear that letting the xDSUs get away was a mistake. Also, all the talk in the realignment world is about 16-team superconferences. Everyone is expecting the Big 12 and Big East to be ripped apart as the Pac10, Big Ten, SEC, and ACC all strip them of their best assets to get to 16 teams each. Supposition: Fullerton agrees and starts looking at ways to get the Big Sky to 16 as well as blocking any defections to the WAC.

2010ish: Fullerton convinces Montana and the others to stay put by turning the Big Sky into an FCS superconference, unchallenged in FCS west of the Mississippi. The Summit is looking a little shaky with poachings from the Horizon and Southland, with more expected to come from trickle-down realignment. If Fullerton can steal away all possible Summit expansion members plus an existing school, the Summit will be on the verge of crumpling with just one or two other poachings. He convinces his presidents that by taking SUU(current Summit), USD(already accepted by Summit), & UND(will be getting invite as soon as Sioux situation is solved*), the Summit will start to fall apart and NDSU & SDSU will then accept a Big Sky invite. Along with UCD & CP, that will give the Big Sky 16 football schools and 14 full members. The Summit will be destroyed and the MVFC crippled.

2010ish cont.: Realizing the danger, the Summit and MVFC quickly offer USD a football home. USD changes their mind(again) and Fullerton's plan blows up in the Big Sky's face. Now they've got an unwieldy number of teams, an extreme eastern outlier in UND, and no hope to get the xDSUs. Fullerton's image takes a big hit with the presidents.

2013ish: Fullerton has one last gasp of creating a super-Big Sky. (And this is where most of NoDak's theories started.) The WAC is teetering on the edge, the Big Sky is unwieldy, and both are becoming afterthoughts in their respective subdivisions. Idaho's AD is desperately searching for any way to prevent them from dropping to FCS and is getting into an open pissing war with his own president. Him and Fullerton start to float the idea of a hybrid conference; half FBS, half FCS. The surviving WAC and top Big Sky schools(and maybe the xDSUs) will become the FBS half, and the remainder will stay FCS. For all other sports, they will be one giant conference with two or three divisions to keep costs down and rivalries together. After a few years, the conference would re-sort itself once the FBS schools had been playing together long enough to satisfy the NCAA requirements. The big problem: none of the Big Sky presidents are interested. The idea gains absolutely no traction, and the only person to talk about it is Idaho's AD(and NoDak - repeatedly - ad nauseam). The writing is on the wall, and Fullerton announces his retirement within a year or two.


Did the Big Sky/Fullerton contribute to the WAC folding? Yes. Definitely a secondary or tertiary factor, but it was a small factor. By doing whatever possible to prevent Big Sky schools from leaving(including introducing wild expansion plans), they dried up almost all the football possibilities the WAC could use to backfill with. It was exactly what Fullerton tried to do to the Summit by trying to grab SUU, UND & USD. Would the WAC have folded even without Fullerton's actions? Probably. But his actions finished closing the final door to the WAC as an FBS conference.


At least that's what it all looked like from here.



*That's a fascinating story, but not about the Big Sky or Fullerton. I'm convinced Douple was working with Kelly(UND prez) behind the scenes, but few up at UND are willing to believe it. Some UND fans still haaaaaaate Douple. lol

I wish South Dakota had gone to the Big Sky and we could have added NDSU and SDSU to the MVC as all sport members.

It would have made a ton of sense. Both have proven their muster in Olympic sports in the Summit and are the only two schools to win the conference basketball tournament autobid since becoming eligible.

NDSU redid their basketball arena but from all accounts it's still a joke and wouldn't fit the MVC profile. My hunch is that if an MVC invite was on the line, they could get a new one built to meet that threshold. SDSU is about to dump a bunch of money into their arena and it will fit the profile. Who knows though, with Elgin calling the shots, Detroit probably has a better chance.
11-06-2019 09:51 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 05:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 09:06 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy. MVFC schools tried to do a merger as football only for FBS with the WAC with one condition. Idaho needed to leave the conference. There is a questioned now since Idaho is not in the WAC, you wonder if there would be another talk to try it again? You could trade Tarleton State to Southland for Lamar. Dixie State have plans to go to 15,000 seats.

Now, how would the Montana schools react since they wanted the Dakota schools?
I would have to see some solid corroboration before I would believe that. Unless we were talking about a decade or more ago when the WAC was completely different. Or before the xDSUs joined the Gateway/MVFC. Because we've heard absolutely nothing along those lines for as long as we've been in the conference. And that would have been reported all over our local media and fan boards if there were any grain of truth to it.

It was when the WAC was still sponsoring FBS football in their last year. After the WAC's beat writer Tweeted the news, Northern Iowa announced that they wanted FBS, and Missouri State spending money to upgrade their stadium. This was like 2013 I think. MVFC have most of their teams already have the capacity to go FBS. South Dakota needed to add more seats first.

New Mexico State
Lamar
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
W. Illinois
S. Illinois
Illinois State
N. Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

That would keep North Dakota stuck in the Big Sky and Augustana and St. Thomas might be stuck unless they get in the Pioneer.

Do you have a link to any of this? You can't have a football-only FBS conference under the rules. So how would the WAC have continued to exist that way?
11-06-2019 12:17 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 12:17 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 05:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 09:06 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy. MVFC schools tried to do a merger as football only for FBS with the WAC with one condition. Idaho needed to leave the conference. There is a questioned now since Idaho is not in the WAC, you wonder if there would be another talk to try it again? You could trade Tarleton State to Southland for Lamar. Dixie State have plans to go to 15,000 seats.

Now, how would the Montana schools react since they wanted the Dakota schools?
I would have to see some solid corroboration before I would believe that. Unless we were talking about a decade or more ago when the WAC was completely different. Or before the xDSUs joined the Gateway/MVFC. Because we've heard absolutely nothing along those lines for as long as we've been in the conference. And that would have been reported all over our local media and fan boards if there were any grain of truth to it.

It was when the WAC was still sponsoring FBS football in their last year. After the WAC's beat writer Tweeted the news, Northern Iowa announced that they wanted FBS, and Missouri State spending money to upgrade their stadium. This was like 2013 I think. MVFC have most of their teams already have the capacity to go FBS. South Dakota needed to add more seats first.

New Mexico State
Lamar
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
W. Illinois
S. Illinois
Illinois State
N. Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

That would keep North Dakota stuck in the Big Sky and Augustana and St. Thomas might be stuck unless they get in the Pioneer.

Do you have a link to any of this? You can't have a football-only FBS conference under the rules. So how would the WAC have continued to exist that way?

The only link would be to his head.

Delusional to think that WIU, Indiana State etc would consider FBS. And no, you can't have a FBS only conference.
11-06-2019 12:35 PM
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ccd494 Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy.

Who is unhappy in the CAA?

James Madison? If all they wanted was FBS they could have gone yesterday. You're crazy if you don't think Coastal Carolina's Sun Belt spot was theirs if they wanted it. I think they'd move if the right offer came, but it isn't.

Stony Brook? The former AD talked a big game about FBS. He's gone. The new AD hasn't breathed a word about it in 6 years. The NY legislature isn't shoveling money into college campuses to prop up D-I sports.

William & Mary, Richmond, or Villanova? Villanova had its chance to go FBS and declined. All three are perenially rumored to the Patriot to "de-emphasize" football. All three would be welcomed with open arms. None have moved.

Delaware? Delaware isn't the same Delaware it once was. Maybe they could have pulled off FBS 20 years ago, but it's been a pretty steady decline.

Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Albany? The alternative is a northeastern based football conference with subpar local rivals like Bryant, Merrimack, and Central Connecticut. They'd rather play in one of the 2-3 best FCS conferences, particularly because they have to recruit the mid-Atlantic.

Elon? If Elon is anything other than happy to be a part of something, they are delusional.

Northeastern, Hofstra, Drexel, Charleston? If the A-10 called any of them, they'd answer on the first ring. The A-10 isn't calling. So they are where they are.

Who does that leave? Towson? Is Towson unhappy?
11-06-2019 01:29 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Big Sky Conference Expansion Article
(11-06-2019 12:35 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 12:17 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(11-06-2019 05:42 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 09:06 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:  
(11-05-2019 08:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Look. CAA, MVC and now Big Sky Conference have unhappy schools. Even if the commish of all three conferences try to sugarcoat things, the cat is out of the bag of not being happy. MVFC schools tried to do a merger as football only for FBS with the WAC with one condition. Idaho needed to leave the conference. There is a questioned now since Idaho is not in the WAC, you wonder if there would be another talk to try it again? You could trade Tarleton State to Southland for Lamar. Dixie State have plans to go to 15,000 seats.

Now, how would the Montana schools react since they wanted the Dakota schools?
I would have to see some solid corroboration before I would believe that. Unless we were talking about a decade or more ago when the WAC was completely different. Or before the xDSUs joined the Gateway/MVFC. Because we've heard absolutely nothing along those lines for as long as we've been in the conference. And that would have been reported all over our local media and fan boards if there were any grain of truth to it.

It was when the WAC was still sponsoring FBS football in their last year. After the WAC's beat writer Tweeted the news, Northern Iowa announced that they wanted FBS, and Missouri State spending money to upgrade their stadium. This was like 2013 I think. MVFC have most of their teams already have the capacity to go FBS. South Dakota needed to add more seats first.

New Mexico State
Lamar
NDSU
SDSU
South Dakota
W. Illinois
S. Illinois
Illinois State
N. Iowa
Missouri State
Indiana State
Youngstown State

That would keep North Dakota stuck in the Big Sky and Augustana and St. Thomas might be stuck unless they get in the Pioneer.

Do you have a link to any of this? You can't have a football-only FBS conference under the rules. So how would the WAC have continued to exist that way?

The only link would be to his head.

Delusional to think that WIU, Indiana State etc would consider FBS. And no, you can't have a FBS only conference.

It wasn't the MVFC, it was a merger between the MVC and WAC. The hold up was Idaho and Seattle, both were not wanted by the MVC for good reason. New Mexico State and Denver would have been merged into the MVC and the MVC would take the WAC's spot at FBS table. Nothing was ever really leaked to the media but I do know talks were in place according to some people I know at Missouri State.
11-06-2019 02:04 PM
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