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*** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
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pesik Online
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Post: #21
RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
speaking of SMU its wild that they havent heard about the waivers yet

darious mcniell committed in april and said he was filling then....its crazy that he hasnt heard back yet... tulane had an august transfer response 2 weeks ago

he has either been denied and the are appealing and thats whats taking forever...or smus basketball department is a mess, and slaked off in filling . which wouldnt surprise me as they were the last team to finish their non conference schedule in the conference
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 02:08 PM by pesik.)
10-30-2019 02:05 PM
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*** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:05 PM)pesik Wrote:  speaking of SMU its wild that they havent heard about the waivers yet

darious mcniell committed in april and said he was filling then....its crazy that he hasnt heard back yet... tulane had an august transfer response 2 weeks ago

he has either been denied and the are appealing and thats whats taking forever...or smus basketball department is a mess, and slaked off in filling . which wouldnt surprise me as they were the last team to finish their non conference schedule in the conference


I know the person who filed them and he is very competent
10-30-2019 02:14 PM
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 01:25 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Can we go back to the old thread?

You were losing there too
10-30-2019 02:16 PM
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WhoseHouse? Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
If Gardner is as good as ECU fans claim then he should single handedly will them through their atrocious schedule the same way Rob Gray carried us when he was a sophomore.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 02:24 PM by WhoseHouse?.)
10-30-2019 02:24 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  b0ndsj0ns-- about the 11 new players/chemistry comment... look around the conference ..temple an usf are the only teams returning the core of what they did last year...wichita/uconn arent massive overhauls but will be heavily reliant on freshman..the remain 6 teams in the aac are going through massive overhauls

tulane has 11 new
ucf has 10 new and still waiting on waivers
memphis is likely starting all freshman
smu has 2 potential starters still waiting on waivers, 6 of their top 9 are new players (they dont even know who is playing yet and have to divide practices)
cincy has 7 new players & a new coach, and jarron cumberland is injured and hasn't practiced this offseason

all of them have drastically harder schedules ,...none of them are worried about away/home games of not good mid-majors

also most sport related tendonitis is a 3-6 week recovery tine..and he's already been out a couple weeks

StillJonesing- there are also "300rpi" games in that early stretch to navy and vmi... 2 300-ish, 2 200-ish, 1 60 ...

also few college teams press, getting the ball up and down the court shouldn't be an issue....wichita starting pg last season was a true freshman with limited handles and not very dynamic and was a horrible shooter...they went to the NIT final 4

Well none of those teams except maybe Tulane is stuck with a schedule that if they lose 1 or 2 games early that their RPI is DOA for the whole season. Obviously you can join in on beating the dead horse about how horrible our OOC schedule is (I've done it on our board to the point even I'm tired of doing it), but the schedule is what it is from a SOS perspective. To have a shot at an improved overall RPI (something approaching the 150's) ECU can't lose more than like 1 or maybe 2 games not named Liberty. All those teams aside from maybe Tulane probably have some high level games where if they win that could make up for maybe a bad loss if it were to happen. ECU doesn't they flat out can't lose to any of these teams there is zero margin for error to escape this OOC schedule without being again a drain on this league. As for your "expert" diagnosis on Jackson you are again kinda proving my point of concern there. You say it's usually a 3-6 week injury give or take and we aren't exactly sure when it happened but sometime before the NC State scrimmage on the 19th. If it's the 3 week timetable he might play the opener. If it's 6 weeks it's right around the time of the Bahamas tournament, and if it's slightly longer you are talking about possibly December. Robinson no one has a clue about he thinks he could be ready for the opener and Dooley sounds skeptical as hell.

By the way the worst possible thing for the AAC in general is for the concern SJ and I have to be true, that by having the PG's out we drop a few of these games and then they get back in late November/December and conference play rolls around and we start beating good teams and tanking RPI's. I'm glad us beating Cincy didn't end up costing them a bid last year, but it could have dropped them down a seed or 2 because of the harm to their NET.
10-30-2019 02:41 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:24 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  If Gardner is as good as ECU fans claim then he should single handedly will them through their atrocious schedule the same way Rob Gray carried us when he was a sophomore.

A little easier for a guard to carry a team vs a PF. If the freshman PG's aren't just turnover machines it really shouldn't be a problem, but it's not a crazy scenario that are early and we have a few 20+ turnover nights that cause some horrible losses that permanently kill ECU's RPI for the whole season.
10-30-2019 02:45 PM
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:16 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 01:25 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  Can we go back to the old thread?

You were losing there too

lol that’s all you got after a 2 week break?

Man, must’ve been simmering with you for quite a while.
10-30-2019 02:49 PM
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 12:56 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  Its nice to see ECU fans excited about basketball 04-cheers

Wouldn’t you be excited?


10-30-2019 03:05 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:41 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 02:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  b0ndsj0ns-- about the 11 new players/chemistry comment... look around the conference ..temple an usf are the only teams returning the core of what they did last year...wichita/uconn arent massive overhauls but will be heavily reliant on freshman..the remain 6 teams in the aac are going through massive overhauls

tulane has 11 new
ucf has 10 new and still waiting on waivers
memphis is likely starting all freshman
smu has 2 potential starters still waiting on waivers, 6 of their top 9 are new players (they dont even know who is playing yet and have to divide practices)
cincy has 7 new players & a new coach, and jarron cumberland is injured and hasn't practiced this offseason

all of them have drastically harder schedules ,...none of them are worried about away/home games of not good mid-majors

also most sport related tendonitis is a 3-6 week recovery tine..and he's already been out a couple weeks

StillJonesing- there are also "300rpi" games in that early stretch to navy and vmi... 2 300-ish, 2 200-ish, 1 60 ...

also few college teams press, getting the ball up and down the court shouldn't be an issue....wichita starting pg last season was a true freshman with limited handles and not very dynamic and was a horrible shooter...they went to the NIT final 4

Well none of those teams except maybe Tulane is stuck with a schedule that if they lose 1 or 2 games early that their RPI is DOA for the whole season. Obviously you can join in on beating the dead horse about how horrible our OOC schedule is (I've done it on our board to the point even I'm tired of doing it), but the schedule is what it is from a SOS perspective. To have a shot at an improved overall RPI (something approaching the 150's) ECU can't lose more than like 1 or maybe 2 games not named Liberty. All those teams aside from maybe Tulane probably have some high level games where if they win that could make up for maybe a bad loss if it were to happen. ECU doesn't they flat out can't lose to any of these teams there is zero margin for error to escape this OOC schedule without being again a drain on this league. As for your "expert" diagnosis on Jackson you are again kinda proving my point of concern there. You say it's usually a 3-6 week injury give or take and we aren't exactly sure when it happened but sometime before the NC State scrimmage on the 19th. If it's the 3 week timetable he might play the opener. If it's 6 weeks it's right around the time of the Bahamas tournament, and if it's slightly longer you are talking about possibly December. Robinson no one has a clue about he thinks he could be ready for the opener and Dooley sounds skeptical as hell.

By the way the worst possible thing for the AAC in general is for the concern SJ and I have to be true, that by having the PG's out we drop a few of these games and then they get back in late November/December and conference play rolls around and we start beating good teams and tanking RPI's. I'm glad us beating Cincy didn't end up costing them a bid last year, but it could have dropped them down a seed or 2 because of the harm to their NET.

Not to mention the fact even when Robinson and Jackson do come back how much practice time they have lost. Hell Robinson hasn't even practiced with the team at all other than summer 3 on 3 and pick up. Jackson's been out for the scrimmages and most of the preseason too.

You can't just expect to throw these guys in and them hit the ground running like nothing happened even if they cameback next week. It's the basketball equivalent of throwing a QB in that hadn't practiced with the team ever in Robinson's case. Robinson hasn't even played at all in 2 month. No one should expect miracles.

All that said I still feel pretty good about Newton and him getting an opportunity I think he could step up, Curtis I do not and that's where it scares me. Also like you said, no Gardner can't be expected break a press no matter how good of a PF he is and just like you said one 20 TO game and we could easily lose.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 03:23 PM by StillJonesing.)
10-30-2019 03:19 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  StillJonesing- there are also "300rpi" games in that early stretch to navy and vmi... 2 300-ish, 2 200-ish, 1 60 ...

You said RPI.

Navy's RPI was #212

http://realtimerpi.com/college_Men_basketball_rpi5.html

Also they are an oddball team that plays pretty unconventional with a huge rotations and have 20 players on the roster they can play. That's a game on the road that has trap potiental for any team much less one with the lack of reps ours has in game 2.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 03:43 PM by StillJonesing.)
10-30-2019 03:34 PM
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pesik Online
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 03:34 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 02:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  StillJonesing- there are also "300rpi" games in that early stretch to navy and vmi... 2 300-ish, 2 200-ish, 1 60 ...

You said RPI.

Navy's RPI was #212

http://realtimerpi.com/college_Men_basketball_rpi5.html

Also they are an oddball team that plays pretty unconventional with a huge rotations and have 20 players on the roster they can play. That's a game on the road that has trap potiental for any team much less one with the lack of reps ours has.

when i say RPI i mean NET...i talk to people who arent up to date with net yet, so instead of trying to explain net i just often say rpi to save time..the same point is being made without explaining semantics
10-30-2019 03:42 PM
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pesik Online
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
also i think your fears because of 20 turnovers by a fresh pg is exaggerated... freshman with that kind of high turnovers are ones put with the responsibility to score

even the worst freshman pg can bring the ball down and make basic passes to other guards or they wouldn't be d1.. cincy might not have a pg, or elite ball handling skills in its starting line up ..they expect to be a top 20 team
10-30-2019 04:06 PM
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
After watching WSU in their inter-squad scrimmage and in their exhibition against a D2, I'm pretty comfortable with WSU being picked 4th in the league. They have the pieces to move up from there, but those pieces are young.

Newcomers:

Trey Wade (JuCo - played his Fr year in D1) - Will start at PF. Good motor, hard worker. More aggressive than McDuffie. Probably better on the boards than McDuffie. Probably not as good as McDuffie on jumpers, but stronger around the basket

Grant Sherfield - (6'2" Fr PG) Started at PG ahead of Burton (last year's starter) Defends STRONG. Led the team with 18 points. Can stroke it from 3. Ran Marshall's offense well. Should make some all-conference teams before he's done at WSU. Decommitted from UCLA when they changed coaches.

Tyson Etienne (6'1" Fr SG - pronounced E-T-N) Will probably cause Eric Stevenson to maintain his role from last year as the primary backup at SG. Etienne and Sherfield managed to go 7/14 from 3. Last year our guards combined for 14 3's on the year.

DeAntoni Gordon (6'8" Fr PF) Wade is going to get the large bulk of minutes at PF. Gordon looks like he will be able to cover the position when Wade needs a break. Not a banger, but he moves very well.

Josaphat Bilau (6'10" Fr ??) Has all the tools. Good crossover. Hits step-back 3's consistently in drills. Catches, sees the court and passes well. Dribbles well enough to drive to the basket from the perimeter. Moves incredibly well for a guy his size. Now if he only knew how to play basketball. He's learning and his progress between the inter-squad scrimmage and the exhibition was encouraging. Red shirt year would really help. Solid on the boards. Only took one shot - a 3 - he swished it.

WSU fans have seen plenty of teams that have made the NCAA tourney and a lot of teams that haven't. This team looks like they've got a real shot this year. Might take a few breaks here and there, but not that many.
10-30-2019 05:01 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 04:06 PM)pesik Wrote:  also i think your fears because of 20 turnovers by a fresh pg is exaggerated... freshman with that kind of high turnovers are ones put with the responsibility to score

even the worst freshman pg can bring the ball down and make basic passes to other guards or they wouldn't be d1.. cincy might not have a pg, or elite ball handling skills in its starting line up ..they expect to be a top 20 team

Damn, I could have sworn PG was an important position. Thanks for letting me know it's not and literally all it takes to be a good team is have a guy capable of getting it across half court. I'm glad Coach Pesik is here to impart all his basketball knowledge. I'm sorry I was wrong I have zero reasons to be concerned about 2 true freshman at PG because if they got recruited to a D1 school they will assuredly be able to cross half court and pass it to someone else, which I now know is literally the only job a PG has to do.
10-30-2019 05:11 PM
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StillJonesing Offline
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 03:42 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 03:34 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 02:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  StillJonesing- there are also "300rpi" games in that early stretch to navy and vmi... 2 300-ish, 2 200-ish, 1 60 ...

You said RPI.

Navy's RPI was #212

http://realtimerpi.com/college_Men_basketball_rpi5.html

Also they are an oddball team that plays pretty unconventional with a huge rotations and have 20 players on the roster they can play. That's a game on the road that has trap potiental for any team much less one with the lack of reps ours has.

when i say RPI i mean NET...i talk to people who arent up to date with net yet, so instead of trying to explain net i just often say rpi to save time..the same point is being made without explaining semantics

Either way their are some computer systems that don't think they are a 300 ranked team and that's still relevant to our discussion as many people as they play and return. VMI should be terrible but these other teams early all season all seem be trending up and even a team like Navy on the road in game two is a tough ask for a team with 11 new players, hurt PG's etc.

It's not that these teams are great, they are just laid out at the worst possible times of the season for success, and I blame Dooley for setting the schedule up against us. 2 home games out of first 8 games sucks for this team with so many new players.

Also we have Charlotte who is like #340 in pace and plays like Virginia near slowest in the nation a couple days before Christmas and E. Kentucky who is #1 in pace fastest in the nation a couple days after Christmas. That's a freaking trap week if I've ever seen one with 2 oddballs you need extra focus on in the same week around the biggest distraction time of the year. It's just a terrible schedule on so many levels.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 05:56 PM by StillJonesing.)
10-30-2019 05:54 PM
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pesik Online
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 05:11 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 04:06 PM)pesik Wrote:  also i think your fears because of 20 turnovers by a fresh pg is exaggerated... freshman with that kind of high turnovers are ones put with the responsibility to score

even the worst freshman pg can bring the ball down and make basic passes to other guards or they wouldn't be d1.. cincy might not have a pg, or elite ball handling skills in its starting line up ..they expect to be a top 20 team

Damn, I could have sworn PG was an important position. Thanks for letting me know it's not and literally all it takes to be a good team is have a guy capable of getting it across half court. I'm glad Coach Pesik is here to impart all his basketball knowledge. I'm sorry I was wrong I have zero reasons to be concerned about 2 true freshman at PG because if they got recruited to a D1 school they will assuredly be able to cross half court and pass it to someone else, which I now know is literally the only job a PG has to do.

glad you are starting to have faith in dooley and realize good coaches win with what they have and lean on their strengths ..just like wichita did

04-cheers let me know if you need more knowledge
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 05:59 PM by pesik.)
10-30-2019 05:58 PM
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pesik Online
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 05:01 PM)Aargh Wrote:  Grant Sherfield - (6'2" Fr PG) Started at PG ahead of Burton (last year's starter) Defends STRONG. Led the team with 18 points. Can stroke it from 3. Ran Marshall's offense well. Should make some all-conference teams before he's done at WSU. Decommitted from UCLA when they changed coaches.

Grant Sherfield's birthday was during the scrimmage, i think he started as like a present because the scrimmage and his family was there..

any word if he legitimately jumped burton?
10-30-2019 06:04 PM
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 06:04 PM)pesik Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 05:01 PM)Aargh Wrote:  Grant Sherfield - (6'2" Fr PG) Started at PG ahead of Burton (last year's starter) Defends STRONG. Led the team with 18 points. Can stroke it from 3. Ran Marshall's offense well. Should make some all-conference teams before he's done at WSU. Decommitted from UCLA when they changed coaches.

Grant Sherfield's birthday was during the scrimmage, i think he started as like a present because the scrimmage and his family was there..

any word if he legitimately jumped burton?
Burton had his wisdom teeth cut out and missed some practice, so that may have been involved with Sherfield starting. Sherfield had a better game than Burton and Marshall described him as a PG who can score, which Marshall said had been missing.

Burton's play appears significantly improved over the summer. Sherfield is a better player. Burton seems likely to keep his starting job because he's been in the system longer, but he's going to have to fight for minutes. Sherfield looks to be ahead of both VanVleet and Shamet when they were Fr, and those guys are doing pretty well in the NBA. It remains to be seen if Sherfield will have VanVleet's tenacity or Shamet's shooting touch.

Marshall is already talking about Burton's ability to play SF. I expect WSU's guard play to be a lot better than it was a year ago. The 3 primary guards in the exhibition (PG and SG) had 11 assists and 1 TO. The team had assists on 24 of 36 baskets.

Sherfield is a 20 year old Fr. He played at a very high level HS in Dallas and then at Sunrise Academy, which is consistently one of the better preps in the nation, and he played on elite AAU teams. Sherfield grew up in Wichita, but his family moved to Dallas when he was a teenager.

I don't know how good he's going to get - some mature earlier than others - but he's worth keeping an eye on if you're looking for potential all-conference players.
10-30-2019 07:17 PM
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***
(10-30-2019 02:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  when i say RPI i mean NET...i talk to people who arent up to date with net yet, so instead of trying to explain net i just often say rpi to save time..the same point is being made without explaining semantics

Importantly, the NET wasn't found to be "ready for prime time" last season when the selection committee met. The NET procedure didn't function very well, and supplemental information had to be used in combination. There was some indication that RPI was used in combination with NET and other data, so the RPI is still of interest.

The main advantage of the RPI is that is a well understood purely mathematical formula, unaffected by selection committees or polls or other subjective opinions.


In contrast, the NET has a couple of "fudge" factors which allow systematic bias in the composition of raters, e.g., if the rating committee is over-weighted by P5 raters.

Caveat Emptor "Let the buyer beware."
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 07:46 PM by jedclampett.)
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RE: *** Basketball News Thread (Part 4) ***

10-30-2019 09:14 PM
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