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Playstation Vue shutting down
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
Frank is correct. Look at how expensive per month MLB.TV is.

ESPN a la carte would have much more valuable content than just MLB out of market games. While they would have more subscribers than MLB, its highly unlikely they would have enough to get a $10 price point
10-30-2019 09:19 AM
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Post: #22
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-29-2019 04:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Just got an email saying they're pulling the plug in January. That sucks.

I used to have a PSVue subscription, but they kept jacking up the price for the most basic package. When I first started, it was only $30/month. I tolerated the $10 increase, but when they jacked it up to $50/month, I ended up cancelling my subscription after football season ended last year.
10-30-2019 09:23 AM
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BobcatEngineer Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-29-2019 08:54 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Sad day. I love PS Vue. Not sure which service I will turn to once it goes away.

Anyone have any recommendations? YouTube TV is one I have been recommended most.

You could check out Sling TV. That's what I had prior to PSVue. They had less content, but still had a pretty decent amount of sports channels.
10-30-2019 09:26 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-29-2019 08:54 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Sad day. I love PS Vue. Not sure which service I will turn to once it goes away.

Anyone have any recommendations? YouTube TV is one I have been recommended most.

I have Hulu Live. I would put it in the "very good" category for sports: all of the ESPN, Fox, Comcast and Turner networks are on the service along with the vast majority of regional sports networks. However, it doesn't have the pro league networks (NFL Network, MLB Network, NBAtv, NHL Network), so you'd have to judge how important those channels are to you. As a sports fan, I'd rather have them than not and I'd be willing to pay a higher price if they were part of a sports pack, but I don't need them so much that it would be worth it to pay for a different streaming service AND the ad-free Hulu on-demand plan that I'd be paying for anyway (which is bundled with the Hulu Live price).

I'm also on the lookout to see if Hulu Live will have a discounted bundle with Disney+ (as we're 100% certain to sign up for that service in some manner in our household). As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.
10-30-2019 09:37 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #25
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 09:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.

You know, as of last November, I was a Netflix subscriber, no commercials, and i love that. Never had HULU as it seemed redundant with Netflix.

Then, around Thanksgiving, HULU had an offer i just couldn't refuse - 99 cents a month for a year. So i signed up. But, I didn't think I'd really watch much because this was for the HULU tier that has commercials. Seemed to be a fatal flaw for me but I figured for 99 cents why not try it?

Turns out, I actually *like* the commercials! The commercials are a time to check my phone (which i seem to have a compulsion to do constantly, LOL) or take a piss, or get a snack. Rather than an annoyance, I like them.

So I will also be signing up for the Disney/Hulu/ESPN bundle, because I already subscribe to ESPN+ and my wife and I love HULU too, it complements Netflix.

Point is - If you haven't tried Hulu with commercials, maybe you should.

04-cheers
10-30-2019 09:45 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 09:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.

You know, as of last November, I was a Netflix subscriber, no commercials, and i love that. Never had HULU as it seemed redundant with Netflix.

Then, around Thanksgiving, HULU had an offer i just couldn't refuse - 99 cents a month for a year. So i signed up. But, I didn't think I'd really watch much because this was for the HULU tier that has commercials. Seemed to be a fatal flaw for me but I figured for 99 cents why not try it?

Turns out, I actually *like* the commercials! The commercials are a time to check my phone (which i seem to have a compulsion to do constantly, LOL) or take a piss, or get a snack. Rather than an annoyance, I like them.

So I will also be signing up for the Disney/Hulu/ESPN bundle, because I already subscribe to ESPN+ and my wife and I love HULU too, it complements Netflix.

Point is - If you haven't tried Hulu with commercials, maybe you should.

04-cheers
How long are the commercials? Are they around 4 minutes like OTA?
10-30-2019 09:55 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 09:55 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.

You know, as of last November, I was a Netflix subscriber, no commercials, and i love that. Never had HULU as it seemed redundant with Netflix.

Then, around Thanksgiving, HULU had an offer i just couldn't refuse - 99 cents a month for a year. So i signed up. But, I didn't think I'd really watch much because this was for the HULU tier that has commercials. Seemed to be a fatal flaw for me but I figured for 99 cents why not try it?

Turns out, I actually *like* the commercials! The commercials are a time to check my phone (which i seem to have a compulsion to do constantly, LOL) or take a piss, or get a snack. Rather than an annoyance, I like them.

So I will also be signing up for the Disney/Hulu/ESPN bundle, because I already subscribe to ESPN+ and my wife and I love HULU too, it complements Netflix.

Point is - If you haven't tried Hulu with commercials, maybe you should.

04-cheers
How long are the commercials? Are they around 4 minutes like OTA?

They range. Sometimes one minute, sometimes up to four minutes. And, one thing I like is they have a running countdown clock for the whole break. When the commercial break starts, there is a clock in the corner that starts at like 120 seconds, and it runs down, and you know that's how long the entire commercial break is. Commercials within the break may be 15 or 30 or 60 seconds, but you know the show will be back on when that clock runs down to zero.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 10:15 AM by quo vadis.)
10-30-2019 10:12 AM
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Post: #28
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 06:56 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 11:04 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  How is recouping ad revenue the consumer’s problem? Most people aren’t going to pay $30 a month for just ESPN. You need all 5 Chicago teams and a college, not everyone “needs” all that. I would gladly pay $10 a month for ESPN, it’s up to them to make smart business choices and provide content that people want to watch. However, spending $70 a month for ESPN and 80% crap isn’t important to me.

You can always go to a sports bar to watch a big game if you want to on ESPN.

Or stick with the streaming services and get into watching what they have on there.

Bar option doesn't appeal to me. I'm 53 and there is value to me in being able to sit on my couch wearing pajama pants and a comfortable t-shirt rather than over-paying for food and beer.

I'm already subscribing to ESPN+ and MLB.tv to get what I need. I love NHL hockey and I'm out-of-market for my favorite team but between NBCSN, NBC, ESPN+ and the free game on NHL Game Center or whatever its called now I can see enough of my team to be happy in regular season. Stuck with cable for now with NBA because my favorite team is in-market.
10-30-2019 11:12 AM
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Post: #29
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 09:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.

You know, as of last November, I was a Netflix subscriber, no commercials, and i love that. Never had HULU as it seemed redundant with Netflix.

Then, around Thanksgiving, HULU had an offer i just couldn't refuse - 99 cents a month for a year. So i signed up. But, I didn't think I'd really watch much because this was for the HULU tier that has commercials. Seemed to be a fatal flaw for me but I figured for 99 cents why not try it?

Turns out, I actually *like* the commercials! The commercials are a time to check my phone (which i seem to have a compulsion to do constantly, LOL) or take a piss, or get a snack. Rather than an annoyance, I like them.

So I will also be signing up for the Disney/Hulu/ESPN bundle, because I already subscribe to ESPN+ and my wife and I love HULU too, it complements Netflix.

Point is - If you haven't tried Hulu with commercials, maybe you should.

04-cheers

Plus, commercials are part of our culture.

Last year, my brothers started saying "Dilly Dilly" at Christmas. I had no clue what they were talking about because I hadn't watched much TV in the previous 6 months.

Sure, it's a silly example, but there's so few things that everyone participates in these days. Media is getting more and more fragmented and I fear a return to the 1890s where people have no idea what life is like for people in different jobs or different states.
10-30-2019 01:27 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 10:12 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:55 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.

You know, as of last November, I was a Netflix subscriber, no commercials, and i love that. Never had HULU as it seemed redundant with Netflix.

Then, around Thanksgiving, HULU had an offer i just couldn't refuse - 99 cents a month for a year. So i signed up. But, I didn't think I'd really watch much because this was for the HULU tier that has commercials. Seemed to be a fatal flaw for me but I figured for 99 cents why not try it?

Turns out, I actually *like* the commercials! The commercials are a time to check my phone (which i seem to have a compulsion to do constantly, LOL) or take a piss, or get a snack. Rather than an annoyance, I like them.

So I will also be signing up for the Disney/Hulu/ESPN bundle, because I already subscribe to ESPN+ and my wife and I love HULU too, it complements Netflix.

Point is - If you haven't tried Hulu with commercials, maybe you should.

04-cheers
How long are the commercials? Are they around 4 minutes like OTA?

They range. Sometimes one minute, sometimes up to four minutes. And, one thing I like is they have a running countdown clock for the whole break. When the commercial break starts, there is a clock in the corner that starts at like 120 seconds, and it runs down, and you know that's how long the entire commercial break is. Commercials within the break may be 15 or 30 or 60 seconds, but you know the show will be back on when that clock runs down to zero.

Smart, many of the free streaming channels do that.
10-30-2019 01:34 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
Thanks for the recommendations. Greatly appreciated. 04-cheers
10-30-2019 02:03 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 01:27 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:45 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 09:37 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  As of now, there's a bundle offer for Disney+, ESPN+ and Hulu with commercials, but not one that includes Hulu Live.

You know, as of last November, I was a Netflix subscriber, no commercials, and i love that. Never had HULU as it seemed redundant with Netflix.

Then, around Thanksgiving, HULU had an offer i just couldn't refuse - 99 cents a month for a year. So i signed up. But, I didn't think I'd really watch much because this was for the HULU tier that has commercials. Seemed to be a fatal flaw for me but I figured for 99 cents why not try it?

Turns out, I actually *like* the commercials! The commercials are a time to check my phone (which i seem to have a compulsion to do constantly, LOL) or take a piss, or get a snack. Rather than an annoyance, I like them.

So I will also be signing up for the Disney/Hulu/ESPN bundle, because I already subscribe to ESPN+ and my wife and I love HULU too, it complements Netflix.

Point is - If you haven't tried Hulu with commercials, maybe you should.

04-cheers

Plus, commercials are part of our culture.

Last year, my brothers started saying "Dilly Dilly" at Christmas. I had no clue what they were talking about because I hadn't watched much TV in the previous 6 months.

Sure, it's a silly example, but there's so few things that everyone participates in these days. Media is getting more and more fragmented and I fear a return to the 1890s where people have no idea what life is like for people in different jobs or different states.


That's a good point. About two weeks ago I was watching a VHS tape of a game between Notre Dame and FSU in 1994. This isn't a later "ESPN classic" broadcast, I taped it off the TV at the time the game was played so have had the tape for 25 years now.

I Basically zipped through the game but stopped to watch all the commercials, LOL. They are like a time capsule.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 02:09 PM by quo vadis.)
10-30-2019 02:05 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-29-2019 08:54 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Sad day. I love PS Vue. Not sure which service I will turn to once it goes away.

Anyone have any recommendations? YouTube TV is one I have been recommended most.

YouTube TV is slowly becoming the standard of streaming options. And it's to be expected, no one can really compete with Google aside Disney.

However, I must say this......YouTube TV began as a low cost option but I can see where this is trending. You are better off just paying for cable unless you are just very modern.

I like it because I am modern and it's convenient as a techy. But at $50.00 a month.....I would get cable if I didn't have gigabit internet.
10-30-2019 04:59 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 04:59 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:54 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Sad day. I love PS Vue. Not sure which service I will turn to once it goes away.

Anyone have any recommendations? YouTube TV is one I have been recommended most.

YouTube TV is slowly becoming the standard of streaming options. And it's to be expected, no one can really compete with Google aside Disney.

However, I must say this......YouTube TV began as a low cost option but I can see where this is trending. You are better off just paying for cable unless you are just very modern.

I like it because I am modern and it's convenient as a techy. But at $50.00 a month.....I would get cable if I didn't have gigabit internet.

YouTube and ATT low balled their plans initially to get market share and presumably to drive out competitors in the space, now the prices are rising and looking fairly similar to cable and satellite. The only difference is whether the price of the delivery infrastructure is included in the price of the programming or paid independently of the programming.
10-30-2019 05:13 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 05:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 04:59 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:54 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Sad day. I love PS Vue. Not sure which service I will turn to once it goes away.

Anyone have any recommendations? YouTube TV is one I have been recommended most.

YouTube TV is slowly becoming the standard of streaming options. And it's to be expected, no one can really compete with Google aside Disney.

However, I must say this......YouTube TV began as a low cost option but I can see where this is trending. You are better off just paying for cable unless you are just very modern.

I like it because I am modern and it's convenient as a techy. But at $50.00 a month.....I would get cable if I didn't have gigabit internet.

YouTube and ATT low balled their plans initially to get market share and presumably to drive out competitors in the space, now the prices are rising and looking fairly similar to cable and satellite. The only difference is whether the price of the delivery infrastructure is included in the price of the programming or paid independently of the programming.

Exactly, one all the small fish like Vue, Apple, Sling, and others are run out of business the prices for streaming are going to skyrocket. Everyone wants a piece of the pie right now because it's the evolution of TV.

But really if you do the math....

YouTube TV - $50
Netflix - $13
Disney/ESPN + - $10
Internet only package - $60

You can get Comcast + Internet for $59.99

The only way people actually save money by cable cutting is by sharing passwords and splitting things. And that's going to be soon cracked down on with coming algorithms.
10-30-2019 05:30 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 05:30 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 05:13 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 04:59 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:54 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Sad day. I love PS Vue. Not sure which service I will turn to once it goes away.

Anyone have any recommendations? YouTube TV is one I have been recommended most.

YouTube TV is slowly becoming the standard of streaming options. And it's to be expected, no one can really compete with Google aside Disney.

However, I must say this......YouTube TV began as a low cost option but I can see where this is trending. You are better off just paying for cable unless you are just very modern.

I like it because I am modern and it's convenient as a techy. But at $50.00 a month.....I would get cable if I didn't have gigabit internet.

YouTube and ATT low balled their plans initially to get market share and presumably to drive out competitors in the space, now the prices are rising and looking fairly similar to cable and satellite. The only difference is whether the price of the delivery infrastructure is included in the price of the programming or paid independently of the programming.

Exactly, one all the small fish like Vue, Apple, Sling, and others are run out of business the prices for streaming are going to skyrocket. Everyone wants a piece of the pie right now because it's the evolution of TV.

But really if you do the math....

YouTube TV - $50
Netflix - $13
Disney/ESPN + - $10
Internet only package - $60

You can get Comcast + Internet for $59.99

The only way people actually save money by cable cutting is by sharing passwords and splitting things. And that's going to be soon cracked down on with coming algorithms.

How much extra for all the additional boxes that are an additional charge?

That is what really causes a issue for me. Suddenlink has a decent rate but to get 3 boxes I get charged $12/month for each box to “rent”.
With OTT, at least I pay a one time charge for a Roku device.
10-30-2019 06:53 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 04:59 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I would get cable if I didn't have gigabit internet.

That is the reason for some people to stick with cable. Streaming TV services are not the way to go for people who have slow and/or unreliable home internet.
10-30-2019 07:43 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 07:43 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-30-2019 04:59 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  I would get cable if I didn't have gigabit internet.

That is the reason for some people to stick with cable. Streaming TV services are not the way to go for people who have slow and/or unreliable home internet.

There's another reason as well: In many small places, the local cable company may also have a virtual monopoly on internet service. Nobody else is offering it. And if you decide to cut the cord and just get the internet without their cable TV, then they jack the price way up on that, which basically eliminates the savings you would get from streaming.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 07:47 PM by quo vadis.)
10-30-2019 07:47 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
(10-30-2019 08:38 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I actually think it will be a hybrid because as much people *think* they want true a la carte, they generally still want the all-you-can-eat buffet at a lower price. Eventually, there will be so many different streaming services that it will eventually come back to people wanting to bundle all of those together (as I'll note below).

Let's get this out of the way: ESPN financially *can't* be a $10 per month service a la carte. It won't even be close to that amount. Remember, they're getting $7 per month from *everyone* that is a cable subscriber right now. So, who's willing to pay $30 or more per month for ESPN plus $20 plus per month for your regional sports network? Those are the types of prices that we'd be seeing for sports networks. The shows that you see on Netflix and Disney+ would have been shown on general purpose networks that generally receive less than $1 per subscriber per month, so charging $5 to $15 per month for a streaming service for those shows has some financial viability. That simply isn't the case for sports.

I'm not arguing that the cable bundle may be deconstructed because of how the world is turning. I totally understand that. However, I really don't understand why sports fans would want that to happen. We're the ones that will be paying significantly more in an a la carte environment.

Plus, the highest likelihood is that all you'll see is a bundle in a different form. To the extent that the bundle is deconstructed, it will likely be having to buy *all* of the Disney channels (not just ESPN), *all* of the AT&T/Turner channels (not just TNT), *all* of the Comcast/NBC channels, etc. via multiple streaming services. That's exactly why all of those companies are starting their own streaming services to provide a baseline for that future. We are already very close to coming out of the period of price arbitrage where streaming is clearly cheaper than the cable bundle, as evidenced by the prior posts here showing DirecTV Now kicking up their prices further along with all of the content creators pulling back their content from Netflix (which IS a massive bundle of shows from many different content creators).

My guess is that there's going to be a shakeout of these streaming services and/or the cost of procuring each of those services will be so high that people will eventually want to bundle all of those together. Maybe people here have a high tolerance for juggling multiple subscriptions, but that's generally not the case for most households. Once you get past paying for Netflix, a Disney+/ Hulu bundle and having an Amazon Prime account, there's a huge question as to whether the market can really bear many more streaming services.

Up until very recently, Netflix essentially served as that bundle since it had a large Disney library plus key shows from multiple owners (The Office, Friends, Breaking Bad, etc.). I always wince whenever people refer to Netflix as "a la carte" since it is actually the largest *bundle* of all-you-can-eat content of all-time that goes far beyond anything that cable provides. What you're seeing is that old "Netflix bundle" from multiple content providers unraveling where each of those providers is creating their own services... and I'm not sure how much the market can bear beyond that. Probably sooner rather than later, we'll be seeing the "streaming bundle" where you get one price for all of the Disney, Comcast, Fox and Warner streaming services since people really don't want to deal with a dozen different a la carte subscriptions, which is essentially the same as today's cable bundle.

We don't really know what ESPN would charge outside of the cable bundling model. Certainly they might want to charge $30 a month - and their outstanding commitments for long-term rights fees might dictate that they at least try - but in the end they'll price where the demand curve tells them they're maximizing revenue.

The reality is that as much as ESPN is the name band in sports, what they have is so narrowly focused that $30 a month isn't going to be attractive for a large number of sports fans, even die hards. Having ESPN, by itself, means you get no (event) coverage of the Olympics, the NHL, English Premier League, or your local MLB team. You get no golf besides the early rounds of the Masters and you get one NFL game per week. And so on.
10-30-2019 07:47 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Playstation Vue shutting down
I think ESPN’s $7 per month subscriber fee is a pretty good indicator of where its price point would be: it’s going to have to be several multiples of that number to be financially viable. Once again, the types of shows that are on Netflix or Amazon Prime were generally the fodder that would have otherwise been on $1 per month or less basic cable channels. We’re talking about many times more that for any sports channel, particularly ESPN and any regional sports network with a critical mass of pro sports. Plus, you’re taking collecting those fees *automatically* from 80 to 100 million people under the cable bundle, whereas you’re going to have a lot fewer subscribers in an a la carte world with a whole lot more *active* costs to obtain and retain subscribers. Anyone that thinks that true premium sports (top NFL, NBA, MLB and P5 games) that ESPN has a large hold over is going to get the $5 per month ESPN+ treatment or even the $15 per month HBO Now treatment are going to be sorely mistaken.

If anyone here actually worked at Disney and saw both how much ESPN makes off of the cable bundle combined with the costs of obtaining live rights, I believe that we’d quickly realize, “Oh crap - we could *never* sell ESPN a la carte.” ESPN is paying over $100 million PER GAME for Monday Night Football - that’s simply not getting covered by a low priced a la carte service. I don’t disagree that most people wouldn’t want to pay more than $10 per month a la carte for ESPN, which means that ESPN simply won’t ever be offered a la carte. Disney won’t provide that choice in the first place no matter how much people ask for it.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2019 09:16 PM by Frank the Tank.)
10-30-2019 09:13 PM
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