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The NCAA just caved
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 03:18 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  This will be a big help to the 1 to 5% of college players with a name/following big enough to bring out enough fans to make their likeness of any real value. For 95% of college athletes it will make no difference.

Sure. Unless there are fans of college sports who actually believe in and value the notions of amateurism, helping college athletes get an education, and a level playing field. You know, fans that some people on this board would call naive and stupid.

If rule changes lead those fans to start viewing college athletes as semi-pros, recruiting as a battle of cash inducements, and competitiveness as a commodity available for purchase in the open market, a lot of them will just walk away. They will stop buying tickets and stop making donations to their favorite college athletic program. And that will make a difference to the other 95%.
10-29-2019 06:45 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #42
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 05:40 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 02:14 PM)chester Wrote:  Bunch of bologna.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...ortunities

Quote:The Board of Governors’ action directs each of the NCAA’s three divisions to immediately consider updates to relevant bylaws and policies for the 21st century, said Michael V. Drake, chair of the board and president of The Ohio State University.

Yep, they're stalling.

Quote:Assure student-athletes are treated similarly to non-athlete students unless a compelling reason exists to differentiate.

There it is. "You can do it if we say you can."

Quote:Make clear the distinction between collegiate and professional opportunities.

In other words, "No, you can't do that or "No, you can't make that much money. We don't think you have that much marketability."

Quote:The working group will continue to gather feedback through April on how best to respond to the state and federal legislative environment and to refine its recommendations on the principles and regulatory framework. The board asked each division to create any new rules beginning immediately, but no later than January 2021.

Uh huh. Most state legislatures are session through the first few months of the year only. The NCAA is hoping to forestall more laws with this announcement.

You forgot the most important line in the NCAA's release:
Quote:to benefit from the use of their name, image and likeness in a manner consistent with the collegiate model.

The Florida bill, already introduced, would become law on July 1, 2020.

IMO, the NCAA still wants to guide this thing federally thought Rep. Gonzales, but it seems too late for that, as SB 206 author Nancy Skinner wrote today on Twitter.
Quote:California has made it clear that we won't accept any arbitrary limitations on college athletes' right to their name, image, and likeness.

Renandpat, thanks. Don't know how I missed that. Doesn't even make sense. The "collegiate model," of course, excludes the ability of athletes to exercise the right of their NILs in the first place.

That's the same sort of circular bullcrap from the NCAA that Judge Wilken skewered when trying to make sense of what the Cartel considers "amateurism" and "pay for play" to be. You'd think that a $14 billion industry that is the NCAA and its member schools could come up with better defenses.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 07:44 PM by chester.)
10-29-2019 07:36 PM
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Post: #43
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 03:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 03:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  "...Student-athletes must be treated similarly to non-athlete students, must not be treated like employees of their respective universities, and there should be a “clear distinction between college and professional opportunities,” the NCAA said...."

This should be one of the key components of any change.

Bullet I agree with you in theory. In reality the camel's nose is under the tent and the demands are just getting started.

I still say the most defensible position would be to adopt the current policies of the IOC with regards to endorsements and amateurism.

Well I agree with you about the camel.
10-29-2019 07:39 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #44
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 07:59 PM by chester.)
10-29-2019 07:55 PM
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PirateTreasureNC Offline
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Post: #45
RE: The NCAA just caved
I think there are a lot of interesting aspects to fallout:

Revenue vs. Non-Revenue sport funding.

"sponsorships" for players...

then, market driven sponsorship opportunities, think the small vs. big market argument in pro sports with endorsements.

Cost of attendance fallout.

Jobs for players....

There is too much money floating around collegiate athletics to be naive about the amateurism argument with how money is made off collegiate athletics, the backroom deals in recruiting and what not, ect....
10-29-2019 08:05 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #46
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.
10-29-2019 08:39 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #47
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

If your paying players then endorsements no longer matter. It’s just another pro league. Next step is they don’t have to be students, contract disputes, strikes, and holdouts.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 08:50 PM by Attackcoog.)
10-29-2019 08:48 PM
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slhNavy91 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: The NCAA just caved
My prediction:
The NCAA's action will be to establish a big old bureaucracy to manage this. An endorsement compliance clearing house or such. Any company wishing to participate will have to register and be subject to audit etc.
NCAA will want an escrow type setup, payment only after exhausting eligibility but that won't fly - human interest angle of needing to help Grandmama pay her rent, but money being inaccessible.
The big apparel/shoe companies and the video game companies will do so (and actual payments to the student athletes will decrease for admin overhead). Big Ed's Used Truck Lot can join if Big Ed Booster wants Big State U athletes to endorse, but he'll sweat the possibility of audit.
Big power schools will add endorsement compliance team to academic etc compliance folks, but they can afford where the smaller schools will have to do it on a shoestring budget and will have increased risk.
Boosters will still play their role, but maybe the pure bagmen will suffer.
Agents are an interesting question.
Net result will be an increasing divide in recruiting advantages for the bigs, but NCAA will make it hard enough to blunt that increase a little.
And dirty stuff will still go on.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 08:49 PM by slhNavy91.)
10-29-2019 08:48 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #49
Q
(10-29-2019 08:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.

Once upon a time, some college athletes were outright paid to play. Some could pocket dough in other ways, like selling programs at the gate for commission. No one cared back then. Folks back in the day loved their players because those players attended their schools.. They didn't give two rips about flipping "amateurism." That was for the weird-ass, inherently wealthy Oxford and Cambridge wannabees.

Some today will moan about officially employed college athletes, but I wonder if they consider the potential benefits.

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to complete his or her degree than the average college athlete of today?

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to transfer to another school than a college athlete in today's landscape.

Q: Is an Olympic athlete who is able to garner the endorsement $ needed for his or her specialized training more or less likely to stay in school, and thus to complete his or her degree?

etc... Who cares ??? Let it happen!
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 09:56 PM by chester.)
10-29-2019 09:50 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #50
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 09:50 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.

Once upon a time, some college athletes were outright paid to play. Some could pocket dough in other ways, like selling programs at the gate for commission. No one cared back then. Folks back in the day loved their players because those players attended their schools.. They didn't give two rips about flipping "amateurism." That was for the weird-ass, inherently wealthy Oxford and Cambridge wannabees.

Some today will moan about officially employed college athletes, but I wonder if they consider the potential benefits.

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to complete his or her degree than the average college athlete of today?

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to transfer to another school than a college athlete in today's landscape.

Q: Is an Olympic athlete who is able to garner the endorsement $ needed for his or her specialized training more or less likely to stay in school, and thus to complete his or her degree?

etc... Who cares ??? Let it happen!

And, with a contract if they want to turn pro early then that organization that drafts them has to buyout their remaining contracted time at the school compensating that school for their investment.

There are more than a few upsides.
10-29-2019 09:58 PM
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Post: #51
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 08:48 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

If your paying players then endorsements no longer matter. It’s just another pro league. Next step is they don’t have to be students, contract disputes, strikes, and holdouts.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the final 4 see a strike. I would lose my interest in college basketball just like I did baseball when they shut down the World Series.

It will be basketball players first. Takes too many to get a football team together on that sort of issue.
10-29-2019 10:00 PM
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Post: #52
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 09:50 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.

Once upon a time, some college athletes were outright paid to play. Some could pocket dough in other ways, like selling programs at the gate for commission. No one cared back then. Folks back in the day loved their players because those players attended their schools.. They didn't give two rips about flipping "amateurism." That was for the weird-ass, inherently wealthy Oxford and Cambridge wannabees.

Some today will moan about officially employed college athletes, but I wonder if they consider the potential benefits.

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to complete his or her degree than the average college athlete of today?

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to transfer to another school than a college athlete in today's landscape.

Q: Is an Olympic athlete who is able to garner the endorsement $ needed for his or her specialized training more or less likely to stay in school, and thus to complete his or her degree?

etc... Who cares ??? Let it happen!

When was that? Under the table, yes, but in the open? I think you are totally wrong there.
10-29-2019 10:02 PM
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Post: #53
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 09:50 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:00 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  First domino fell already. Saw a tweet that Senator Richard Burr from NC says that if Athletes "cash in" on getting paid, he will introduce legislation then that treats scholarships as income. This will bring about a lot of taxation questions and can these athletes muddle through this responsibly.

It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.

Once upon a time, some college athletes were outright paid to play. Some could pocket dough in other ways, like selling programs at the gate for commission. No one cared back then. Folks back in the day loved their players because those players attended their schools.. They didn't give two rips about flipping "amateurism." That was for the weird-ass, inherently wealthy Oxford and Cambridge wannabees.

Some today will moan about officially employed college athletes, but I wonder if they consider the potential benefits.

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to complete his or her degree than the average college athlete of today?

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to transfer to another school than a college athlete in today's landscape.

Q: Is an Olympic athlete who is able to garner the endorsement $ needed for his or her specialized training more or less likely to stay in school, and thus to complete his or her degree?

etc... Who cares ??? Let it happen!

The contract is a nonstarter. Players need to switch schools to play, especially QBs. That part would never work.
10-29-2019 10:03 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #54
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 09:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 09:50 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.

Once upon a time, some college athletes were outright paid to play. Some could pocket dough in other ways, like selling programs at the gate for commission. No one cared back then. Folks back in the day loved their players because those players attended their schools.. They didn't give two rips about flipping "amateurism." That was for the weird-ass, inherently wealthy Oxford and Cambridge wannabees.

Some today will moan about officially employed college athletes, but I wonder if they consider the potential benefits.

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to complete his or her degree than the average college athlete of today?

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to transfer to another school than a college athlete in today's landscape.

Q: Is an Olympic athlete who is able to garner the endorsement $ needed for his or her specialized training more or less likely to stay in school, and thus to complete his or her degree?

etc... Who cares ??? Let it happen!

And, with a contract if they want to turn pro early then that organization that drafts them has to buyout their remaining contracted time at the school compensating that school for their investment.

There are more than a few upsides.

There you go! Let the NFL, NBA, whatever, pay some for the free development they've enjoyed all these years.

It's a freaking no-brainer. Unless you're the NCAA, which seems to be clueless. Completely clueless! 03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 10:16 PM by chester.)
10-29-2019 10:14 PM
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chester Offline
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Post: #55
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 10:02 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 09:50 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 08:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 07:55 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 04:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It should be counted for tax purposes as income along with all other perks (food, dorms, book/laptop expenses, tutoring costs, etc.) along with their stipends.

And when they become employees of the University (and in most cases the state), then they should not be counted against Title IX. This is the first thread to be pulled that will eventually unravel the entire garment of amateurism, and which should eventually lead to the demise of the NCAA. Once the nature of the relationship is determined by the courts then all that was built upon the old classification will change as well.

The NCAA has agreed to images and likenesses. That is their best bet to keep power. But the likelihood of this simply ending there is remote.

The hiring of college athletes is inevitable. It's been happening unofficially for many decades anyway, but in a manner that has fooled much of the public into believing that athletic scholarships aren't labor contracts and that those who receive them are still "amateurs."

If the NCAA had any sense at all, it would embrace the future and "pay the damn player," for pity's sake. Then it could have a more reasonably claim in regard to limiting endorsement opportunities, moral clauses, whatnot.

Well duh! I followed up on violations back when. But, I agree on the limiting of endorsements. Pay 'em counting in the education and incidentals, drop the grant & aid and sign them to 4 year contracts, provide insurance against injury, end the damned transfer portal, and save the images and rights for the schools The hypocrisy has been going on since the inception of college football but truly hit the payola back in the 20's and has been keeping up with inflation ever since.

Once upon a time, some college athletes were outright paid to play. Some could pocket dough in other ways, like selling programs at the gate for commission. No one cared back then. Folks back in the day loved their players because those players attended their schools.. They didn't give two rips about flipping "amateurism." That was for the weird-ass, inherently wealthy Oxford and Cambridge wannabees.

Some today will moan about officially employed college athletes, but I wonder if they consider the potential benefits.

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to complete his or her degree than the average college athlete of today?

Q: Is a college athlete that is signed to a 4 year contract more or less likely to transfer to another school than a college athlete in today's landscape.

Q: Is an Olympic athlete who is able to garner the endorsement $ needed for his or her specialized training more or less likely to stay in school, and thus to complete his or her degree?

etc... Who cares ??? Let it happen!

When was that? Under the table, yes, but in the open? I think you are totally wrong there.

Bullet, I recall that from browsing this 90 year old report on college athletics.

I apologize, but I do not recall wherein that report I read it and am loath to look for it (its like 350 pages long.) However, the same is repeated in this excellent 2011 article from The Atlantic, regarding that very same report:

Quote:Of the 112 schools surveyed, 81 flouted NCAA recommendations with inducements to students ranging from open payrolls and disguised booster funds to no-show jobs at movie studios. Fans ignored the uproar, and two-thirds of the colleges mentioned told The New York Times that they planned no changes. In 1939, freshman players at the University of Pittsburgh went on strike because they were getting paid less than their upperclassman teammates.
10-30-2019 12:27 AM
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chester Offline
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Post: #56
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 06:45 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 03:18 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  This will be a big help to the 1 to 5% of college players with a name/following big enough to bring out enough fans to make their likeness of any real value. For 95% of college athletes it will make no difference.

Sure. Unless there are fans of college sports who actually believe in and value the notions of amateurism, helping college athletes get an education, and a level playing field. You know, fans that some people on this board would call naive and stupid.

If rule changes lead those fans to start viewing college athletes as semi-pros, recruiting as a battle of cash inducements, and competitiveness as a commodity available for purchase in the open market, a lot of them will just walk away. They will stop buying tickets and stop making donations to their favorite college athletic program. And that will make a difference to the other 95%.

I wouldn't call fans of make-believe amateurism "naive" or "stupid".

However, I might ask them why they think that athletes that are involved in reality -- reality being the hopeless, permanently unequal playing field we have today -- ought not make a buck from their own personal God-given NIL without also questioning why students that do not play sports are free to do so.
10-30-2019 01:47 AM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #57
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 02:14 PM)chester Wrote:  Bunch of bologna.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...ortunities

Quote:The Board of Governors’ action directs each of the NCAA’s three divisions to immediately consider updates to relevant bylaws and policies for the 21st century, said Michael V. Drake, chair of the board and president of The Ohio State University.

Yep, they're stalling.

Quote:Assure student-athletes are treated similarly to non-athlete students unless a compelling reason exists to differentiate.

There it is. "You can do it if we say you can."

Quote:Make clear the distinction between collegiate and professional opportunities.

In other words, "No, you can't do that or "No, you can't make that much money. We don't think you have that much marketability."

Quote:The working group will continue to gather feedback through April on how best to respond to the state and federal legislative environment and to refine its recommendations on the principles and regulatory framework. The board asked each division to create any new rules beginning immediately, but no later than January 2021.

Uh huh. Most state legislatures are session through the first few months of the year only. The NCAA is hoping to forestall more laws with this announcement.
Governors can call for special sessions of the state legislature if they wish to do so. Same thing with the President and our Congress.
10-30-2019 03:11 AM
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Post: #58
RE: The NCAA just caved
As I a donor I am told that I should give money to the athletic department to pay for scholarships for the virtuous student athlete.

Now I am told that on top of that scholarship I paid for the student athlete can also have a six figure endorsement on the side.

This is the problem. The NCAA wants to figure a way to protect the scholarship system where its members have so much vested in and allow for endorsements.

While at the same time the cost of running an athletic program at the majority of its institutions is tied to paying for those athletic scholarships. A system that protects the upper 5-10 percent of its membership in recruiting.

A lot of these student athletes already qualify for merit based awards. Why can't they be part of merit or need based systems the schools already offer? Think of some of the programs like free tuition for students from families that make under 60,000 and apply it to student athletes.
10-30-2019 04:34 AM
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Post: #59
RE: The NCAA just caved
(10-29-2019 05:30 PM)chester Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 05:23 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 03:18 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  This will be a big help to the 1 to 5% of college players with a name/following big enough to bring out enough fans to make their likeness of any real value. For 95% of college athletes it will make no difference.

Unless, as an example, Nike, Adidas, UA decide to fund a payroll for certain programs.
Pay the scholly athletes, or the roster, 100K a year in exchange for using their likeness on a shoe box or whatever.

Would have to be all of the schools they're contracted with. Otherwise, you're pissing folks off, and losing continued deals.

It doesn't matter if X university gets mad they would probably still take the sponsorship apparel deals. The apparel gear companies could provide the payroll to their selected top brands, the programs with the most value to the apparel companies.
10-30-2019 07:27 AM
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Post: #60
RE: The NCAA just caved
Who wins if we get arm's length deals?

1. Star hoops players attending college. We are talking the guys likely to be drafted in round one or two with the real winners being the guys projected to go with a lottery pick. We are talking about 30 to 45 players out of the 4500 or so on scholarship. NBA providing an out to avoid having to play a year of college will dry that up.

2. The star football player who is projected early round draft but has to have three years of college maybe 50 out of over 11,000 on scholarship in FBS and chances are a few of the 50 are in FCS or Division II.

The football players maybe get $20 or so from EA Sports if NCAA football returns if that much.

3. The star baseball player who didn't like their draft position coming out of high school and has to wait three years to be drafted because they entered a four year school and blossomed into a top pro prospect. Probably 25 players out of 6000 or so.
10-30-2019 11:06 AM
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