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stever20 Online
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crazy info
10-27-2019 12:06 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3
10-27-2019 05:34 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: crazy info
Throw in a season with double byes and it makes it easier to be undefeated in November. Of course you could just argue that without the byes, it all could have happened 1 or 2 weeks earlier, but I am still believe the byes are making it easier.... somehow.
10-27-2019 05:50 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #4
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3

Meanwhile Virginia Tech played Furman, Rhode Island, and Old Dominion, they just didn't manage to win 8 games with their conference record so your point is exactly what?

Clemson can't afford to stumble this year because their SOS is horrid (except for playing an average Texas A&M). So who you play in conference matters. Minnesota has played Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska so far. In other words they've hardly played anyone with a pulse. Kudos to Wedge for the diabetes quip. L.S.U. has beaten Florida, Texas, and Auburn. I wouldn't exactly lump them in.

There aren't many P conferences who have a whole division with 2 or more losses only 8 games in, but the ACC has one.

And to Goofus, what byes help are minor injuries that would get worse with play every week. The byes help the players heal.
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2019 05:52 PM by JRsec.)
10-27-2019 05:50 PM
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toddjnsn Offline
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RE: crazy info
Quote:Minnesota has played Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska so far.

And Illinois + @Purdue. I would say Illinois is the 'toughest' of all of these in a certain way. Easy to beat if you're a .500 or better team and you have all your ducks in a row. Real potential to lose to if you don't that week. But yes, Minnesota's SoS is pretty bad. But then again, NW won that division last year when they were having a decent year, thanks to Wisconsin being in a re-loading year and Iowa never getting over the hump of being better-than-above-average.

I expect Minnesota to be 10-2, possibly 9-3 this year. If you're 10-2, even with an easy SoS, you're pretty good if you beat everyone you're "supposed" to beat + lose gracefully to 2 ranked teams while beating one of them.
10-27-2019 06:01 PM
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Post: #6
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3

I assume you mean out of conference? Big 10 also plays 9 conference games, so teams are less likely to schedule P5 OOC matchups.
10-27-2019 06:08 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #7
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3

ACC Blowhard alert!

Yet Clemson is still #4 in AP. When Clemson has played exactly 2 winning teams so far.
10-27-2019 06:45 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #8
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3

Meanwhile Virginia Tech played Furman, Rhode Island, and Old Dominion, they just didn't manage to win 8 games with their conference record so your point is exactly what?

Clemson can't afford to stumble this year because their SOS is horrid (except for playing an average Texas A&M). So who you play in conference matters. Minnesota has played Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska so far. In other words they've hardly played anyone with a pulse. Kudos to Wedge for the diabetes quip. L.S.U. has beaten Florida, Texas, and Auburn. I wouldn't exactly lump them in.

There aren't many P conferences who have a whole division with 2 or more losses only 8 games in, but the ACC has one.

And to Goofus, what byes help are minor injuries that would get worse with play every week. The byes help the players heal.

No problem with LSU or even Ohio State (weaker, but still decent). My issues center around the way the media continues to fawn over Alabama even though they haven't beaten anybody yet (they get their chance next week, but too many people are counting those chickens already). Not sure why you brought up VT - I don't think anyone has claimed that they deserve a playoff bid.

One of the main reasons so many ACC teams started off with a loss or two is because of the launch of the ACC Network -- they wanted more conference games early on, which of course means a guaranteed loss to an ACC team every game. That's how VT got both of their losses. Their big OOC test is this weekend - if they can somehow win that one, they'll be 6-2 and probably break into the top 25.

When you lose your first game to a conference opponent on the road, it makes for a long uphill battle the rest of the season...
10-27-2019 08:08 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #9
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 06:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ACC Blowhard alert!

Yet Clemson is still #4 in AP. When Clemson has played exactly 2 winning teams so far.

Funny, 2 is exactly how many teams with winning records that Alabama has beaten so far (and one of those is Southern Miss!) Check YOUR facts before you call someone else a blowhard next time...
05-nono

Clemson and Alabama have both beaten 5-3 Texas A&M; Clemson has a win over 5-3 Louisville, while Bama's other winning team was 5-3 Southern Miss. Every other team that either of them has played so far is 4-4 or worse - but it's the SAME for BOTH TEAMS.
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2019 08:14 PM by Hokie Mark.)
10-27-2019 08:11 PM
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RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 06:08 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3

I assume you mean out of conference? Big 10 also plays 9 conference games, so teams are less likely to schedule P5 OOC matchups.
This year is a bit off in scheduling for BIG teams. The only reason Ohio State doesn't have an ooc game vs. P5 is because the TCU game was changed to a neutral site last year. They ALWAYS schedule a P5 out of conference. 2025 they'll play both Texas and Washington.

Minnesota will have better ooc games vs P5 schools coming up.

10 P5 games and sometimes 11 is very common every year for BIG schools.
10-27-2019 09:27 PM
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Post: #11
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 08:11 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 06:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ACC Blowhard alert!

Yet Clemson is still #4 in AP. When Clemson has played exactly 2 winning teams so far.

Funny, 2 is exactly how many teams with winning records that Alabama has beaten so far (and one of those is Southern Miss!) Check YOUR facts before you call someone else a blowhard next time...
05-nono

Clemson and Alabama have both beaten 5-3 Texas A&M; Clemson has a win over 5-3 Louisville, while Bama's other winning team was 5-3 Southern Miss. Every other team that either of them has played so far is 4-4 or worse - but it's the SAME for BOTH TEAMS.

And did I say anything about Alabama? No.

Playing good teams in conference matters. Has Alabama had a tough schedule so far? No. Why I think folks need to be rooting frankly for LSU vs Alabama. LSU at 11-1 with only a close road loss to Alabama- is going to be awfully tough to beat. The same can't be said for LSU obviously- with wins over Texas, Florida, Auburn, and by definition Texas A&M.

I think the CFP ratings for first week right now would look like 1 LSU, 2 Ohio St, 3 Alabama, and 4 Clemson. However- wouldn't shock me to see Penn St even as high as #3- they have wins so far vs Iowa an Michigan, as well as the OOC vs Pitt...
10-28-2019 12:12 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #12
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 05:50 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 05:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Essentially all of these teams beat 3 to 4 cupcakes and got the other 4 to 5 wins over teams in their own conference... AP poll incest, maybe? At any rate, you might want to temper the enthusiasm just a little.
07-coffee3

Meanwhile Virginia Tech played Furman, Rhode Island, and Old Dominion, they just didn't manage to win 8 games with their conference record so your point is exactly what?

Clemson can't afford to stumble this year because their SOS is horrid (except for playing an average Texas A&M). So who you play in conference matters. Minnesota has played Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska so far. In other words they've hardly played anyone with a pulse. Kudos to Wedge for the diabetes quip. L.S.U. has beaten Florida, Texas, and Auburn. I wouldn't exactly lump them in.

There aren't many P conferences who have a whole division with 2 or more losses only 8 games in, but the ACC has one.

And to Goofus, what byes help are minor injuries that would get worse with play every week. The byes help the players heal.

No problem with LSU or even Ohio State (weaker, but still decent). My issues center around the way the media continues to fawn over Alabama even though they haven't beaten anybody yet (they get their chance next week, but too many people are counting those chickens already). Not sure why you brought up VT - I don't think anyone has claimed that they deserve a playoff bid.

One of the main reasons so many ACC teams started off with a loss or two is because of the launch of the ACC Network -- they wanted more conference games early on, which of course means a guaranteed loss to an ACC team every game. That's how VT got both of their losses. Their big OOC test is this weekend - if they can somehow win that one, they'll be 6-2 and probably break into the top 25.

When you lose your first game to a conference opponent on the road, it makes for a long uphill battle the rest of the season...

The point of it Mark is that every P5 conference basically plays 9 conference games. There are only a couple of exceptions in the SEC and they were dealing with cancellations. The ACC and SEC play 8 conference games and most play 1 OOC P game with a few playing 2 OOC P games.

The Big 10 and Big 12 play 9 conference games and the Big 12 mostly plays a 10th OOC P game. Some Big 10 schools do as well.

Alabama was fortunate to have Duke as their OOC P game. In the not too distant past they've played tougher ones.

The patsy thing isn't going away until the schools are compensated for making it go away. It's a network media contract issue. The conferences will sell that extra P game dearly and are not going to just give it away. We'll know soon enough when the CBS contract is either renewed or replaced if the SEC has sold the 9th conference game.

So you can moan about the scheduling of some of the top schools all you want. Nothing will change until they are payed to play a better schedule. Pointing out Va Tech's week OOC schedule was just my way of saying remove the long in your own eye first. If your Hokies were top 4 this year then you would have been just as guilty.

And without having to drive home the point Auburn and L.S.U. have two of the nations toughest schedules. Alabama's is more lax. But they will have to play L.S.U. and Auburn and the game with us is on the road. The SEC West is murder even the weaker teams have the size and strength to inflict key injuries. The lack of Florida and Georgia on the Alabama rotation is more the issue within the conference. Playing Kentucky, Vanderbilt, and Tennessee has given them quite the easier path in many years. But they still have to navigate 6 games in the West that would be pretty formidable as a division in the ACC.
10-28-2019 02:24 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #13
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 08:11 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 06:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ACC Blowhard alert!

Yet Clemson is still #4 in AP. When Clemson has played exactly 2 winning teams so far.

Funny, 2 is exactly how many teams with winning records that Alabama has beaten so far (and one of those is Southern Miss!) Check YOUR facts before you call someone else a blowhard next time...
05-nono

Clemson and Alabama have both beaten 5-3 Texas A&M; Clemson has a win over 5-3 Louisville, while Bama's other winning team was 5-3 Southern Miss. Every other team that either of them has played so far is 4-4 or worse - but it's the SAME for BOTH TEAMS.

This is a problem that as developed because of oversized conferences and unbalanced schedules.
If conferences get bigger, the problem will only get worse.
10-28-2019 04:42 AM
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Post: #14
RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 12:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ... Yep, and of those 32 combined wins, 8 were over G5 teams, 2 were over FCS opponents, and exactly 3 wins came over P5 opponents:
- Alabama beat Duke.
- Penn State beat Pitt.
- LSU beat Texas.

Minnesota didn't even play any P5 opponents (neither did Ohio State or Baylor, for that matter - but they're both undefeated, by golly!).

Not counting any in-conference wins as P5 wins but counting all OOC P5 wins as P5 wins makes for a very inconsistent SOS yardstick ... when an SEC school that Alabama beat and is not counted would have been counted if OSU had beat them and a Big Ten school that OSU beat and is not counted would have counted if Alabama had beat them.

Now, if an SEC homer says some other conference isn't SEC quality so they judge schools by how many SEC schools they have beat ... well, even if that yardstick is perhaps a bit biased, at least it is consistent.

But only counting beating an SEC school when a non-SEC school does it, and similarly across the board? How does being out of conference suddenly elevate the same school from non-P5 status to P5 status?
10-28-2019 08:48 AM
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RE: crazy info
(10-27-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  No problem with LSU or even Ohio State (weaker, but still decent). My issues center around the way the media continues to fawn over Alabama even though they haven't beaten anybody yet (they get their chance next week, but too many people are counting those chickens already).

The media "fawns over Alabama" for the same reason they fawn over Clemson - Track Record. So they get the benefit of the doubt about their schedule.

Difference is, Alabama will be tested soon enough - they have LSU, Auburn, and then a very tough opponent in the SEC title game to come. If they are paper tigers - which they haven't been the past 12 years - we will know soon enough.

With Clemson, they will continue to face nobody through the end of the regular season. That gives Dabo a lot more flexibility to prepare for the playoffs. He can rest key starters, give underclassmen reps and playing time, try new plays and schemes, etc. basically treat ACC games as practice games so that Clemson is fully rested, locked, and loaded for the playoffs.

Alabama - and Ohio State and everyone else basically - doesn't have that luxury.

Clemson, through a combination of being very good while the ACC is bad, is basically in the same position FSU was in the 1990s: The national story each year is "who will face Clemson for the national title" (or the playoffs) just as it was "who will face FSU" twenty years ago.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2019 09:09 AM by quo vadis.)
10-28-2019 09:05 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: crazy info
(10-28-2019 02:24 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Alabama was fortunate to have Duke as their OOC P game. In the not too distant past they've played tougher ones. The patsy thing isn't going away until the schools are compensated for making it go away... So you can moan about the scheduling of some of the top schools all you want. Nothing will change until they are payed to play a better schedule...

...Auburn and L.S.U. have two of the nations toughest schedules. Alabama's is more lax. But they will have to play L.S.U. and Auburn...

"Will have to play" = future tense. Bama hasn't played them yet. So the very same arguments that folks want to toss at Clemson apply - even more so - to Alabama. Why is the Tide ranked #1? The media seems to want to contain the argument to whether LSU and Ohio State deserve to be ranked ahead of Clemson -- but what about the Tide? #FakeNews!

(10-28-2019 08:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Not counting any in-conference wins as P5 wins but counting all OOC P5 wins as P5 wins makes for a very inconsistent SOS yardstick ... when an SEC school that Alabama beat and is not counted would have been counted if OSU had beat them and a Big Ten school that OSU beat and is not counted would have counted if Alabama had beat them.

The reason for distinguishing OOC games is because folks keep wanting to claim that conference X is tougher than conference Y... All the conference wins in the world will not decide that argument, but OOC games potentially can. Didn't play any? Then all we know is that you're better than the teams you actually beat - nothing more, nothing less.
10-28-2019 09:12 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #17
RE: crazy info
(10-28-2019 09:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  No problem with LSU or even Ohio State (weaker, but still decent). My issues center around the way the media continues to fawn over Alabama even though they haven't beaten anybody yet (they get their chance next week, but too many people are counting those chickens already).

The media "fawns over Alabama" for the same reason they fawn over Clemson - Track Record. So they get the benefit of the doubt about their schedule.

Which media outlet is fawning over Clemson, other than maybe the ACC Network?

Quote:Difference is, Alabama will be tested soon enough - they have LSU, Auburn, and then a very tough opponent in the SEC title game to come...

Since when do we give teams credit for games not yet played?
10-28-2019 09:14 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #18
RE: crazy info
(10-28-2019 09:14 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 09:05 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 08:08 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  No problem with LSU or even Ohio State (weaker, but still decent). My issues center around the way the media continues to fawn over Alabama even though they haven't beaten anybody yet (they get their chance next week, but too many people are counting those chickens already).

The media "fawns over Alabama" for the same reason they fawn over Clemson - Track Record. So they get the benefit of the doubt about their schedule.

Which media outlet is fawning over Clemson, other than maybe the ACC Network?

Quote:Difference is, Alabama will be tested soon enough - they have LSU, Auburn, and then a very tough opponent in the SEC title game to come...

Since when do we give teams credit for games not yet played?


Since ... forever? I have followed college football for 50 years, and polls have always worked that way. They have *never* been based strictly on accomplishments, rather they are the opinion of the voters as to who is best, based on whatever factors make up that in the mind of the voter.

As for Clemson, they are fawned over - they are #4 in the AP poll. Ranked ahead of unbeatens such as Penn State, Minnesota, Baylor, and SMU, despite having arguably less accomplishments than all of them. They are ranked higher because of Track Record. They were ranked higher than Oklahoma last week despite having achieved less too.

Clemson has nothing to worry about. Because of their Track Record, they are guaranteed a spot in the playoffs if they win out. Doesn't matter what their SOS is, etc. And a spot in the playoffs is the only thing that matters.
10-28-2019 09:31 AM
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Post: #19
RE: crazy info
so TV came out.... The Penn St/Minnesota game will be on at Noon. On ABC..... Opposite Maryland/Ohio St also at noon....

Ouch ABC giving Fox a big FU
10-28-2019 11:45 AM
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