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Post-game thread: Rice v USM
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Intellectual_Brutality Offline
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Post: #1
Exclamation Post-game thread: Rice v USM
Not quite sure what to make of this one. Lots of our previous complaints were dealt with.
1. We moved away from pound the rock, seemingly 180 degrees
2. Marshman got some burn

And we were very much in it to the end.

Whereas some previous losses we could hang on Bloom, this one exposed just how little talent we have on offense, especially with injuries. The WRs, where we thought we had big question marks, have actually impressed, while basically all other units turned out to be worse than I expected.

Overall, Bloom's stock keeps dropping. The pound the rock philosophy is clearly a failure, and the playcalling today shows Bloom admits to it. Why did it take so long to experiment? Why did Marshman come into such a critical situation with no snaps prior? All of these things point to a green coach who doesn't quite know wtf he is doing.

I went from being in favor of giving him another year -- I mean, we *are*, miraculously, legitimately in all of these games to the bitter end, which is an achievement -- but now I'm fine letting him go.
10-26-2019 05:56 PM
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greyowl72 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
We need more offense. Period.
Or, maybe .. we need AN offense.

Good to see us air it out in the second half. But really USM made that decision for us.

I hate it for the players. We’ve been in a legit position to win the majority of our games this year.

I don’t think we will fire Bloomgren during or after this season, no matter what our record’s going to be. Although any other program would. Next year it’s make or break for him. The hottest of hot seats.
10-26-2019 06:27 PM
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Fort Bend Owl Offline
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
No Walter. No Stewart. No Chaffin. No Williams (although that has been awhile now, and I'll assume his injury is season-ending). But the replacements there aren't getting it done. We've had injuries on defense, but the guys we put in there do fine. You have to wonder if it's more than just the players on the offensive side.

I don't understand why they didn't give the true freshman QB a chance.

Bloomgren hinted after the game that there would be changes on offense. I'm not sure if he's referring to player personnel or coaching personnel (or both).
10-26-2019 06:46 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 05:56 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  Whereas some previous losses we could hang on Bloom, this one exposed just how little talent we have on offense, especially with injuries.

I think it exposed how little talent we have to run the scheme that Bloomgren has elected to use. In another scheme, our talent might play better, but not this one. Yes, we got away from "pound the rock" a bit today, but not really a schematic change, just calling plays from a different part of the playbook. My friend RUOwls can fill you in on the structural problems with our passing attack. I was just a lineman, so I don't know all that stuff.

I don't think we can recruit the dominant offensive linemen that the system requires, and I've pretty much concluded that finding the quarterback to run it may be an even bigger problem. The guy with the NFL arm, a la Andrew Luck or Tommy Kramer, isn't coming to a G5. The QB that we can get is the good athlete who was an excellent HS QB, but Texas tells him, "Come here and we will make you a safety," but he wants to play QB, not safety. To make effective use, we've got to get him out to the corner as a legitimate run threat. The systems that do that are the triple option and the run-and-shoot. "Pound the rock" is not a fit for Marshman. And we've gone through how many other QBs without finding one who could really execute it.
10-26-2019 06:57 PM
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Intellectual_Brutality Offline
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 06:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 05:56 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  Whereas some previous losses we could hang on Bloom, this one exposed just how little talent we have on offense, especially with injuries.

I think it exposed how little talent we have to run the scheme that Bloomgren has elected to use. In another scheme, our talent might play better, but not this one. Yes, we got away from "pound the rock" a bit today, but not really a schematic change, just calling plays from a different part of the playbook. My friend RUOwls can fill you in on the structural problems with our passing attack. I was just a lineman, so I don't know all that stuff.

I don't think we can recruit the dominant offensive linemen that the system requires, and I've pretty much concluded that finding the quarterback to run it may be an even bigger problem. The guy with the NFL arm, a la Andrew Luck or Tommy Kramer, isn't coming to a G5. The QB that we can get is the good athlete who was an excellent HS QB, but Texas tells him, "Come here and we will make you a safety," but he wants to play QB, not safety. To make effective use, we've got to get him out to the corner as a legitimate run threat. The systems that do that are the triple option and the run-and-shoot. "Pound the rock" is not a fit for Marshman. And we've gone through how many other QBs without finding one who could really execute it.

I am sympathetic to your position but the truth has to be somewhere in the middle. Which system could be successfully run by a QB who throws an INT into double coverage on 1st and goal?
10-26-2019 07:04 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 07:04 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  I am sympathetic to your position but the truth has to be somewhere in the middle. Which system could be successfully run by a QB who throws an INT into double coverage on 1st and goal?

Well, if you. have him run on that play he doesn't throw the pick. And might even score the TD.

But seriously, you have a whole different scheme. You build your scheme around what he can do rather than forcing him to do what he can't.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2019 07:30 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-26-2019 07:30 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 07:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 07:04 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  I am sympathetic to your position but the truth has to be somewhere in the middle. Which system could be successfully run by a QB who throws an INT into double coverage on 1st and goal?

Well, if you. have him run on that play he doesn't throw the pick. And might even score the TD.

But seriously, you have a whole different scheme. You build your scheme around what he can do rather than forcing him to do what he can't.

Ironic, though, isn't it? The system is running, and that's what they didn't on 1st and goal from the 2.
10-26-2019 07:43 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 07:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 07:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 07:04 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  I am sympathetic to your position but the truth has to be somewhere in the middle. Which system could be successfully run by a QB who throws an INT into double coverage on 1st and goal?
Well, if you. have him run on that play he doesn't throw the pick. And might even score the TD.
But seriously, you have a whole different scheme. You build your scheme around what he can do rather than forcing him to do what he can't.
Ironic, though, isn't it? The system is running, and that's what they didn't on 1st and goal from the 2.

But this system is power running, and often it is hard to do that against a goal line defense without an imposing o-line. This is a very different running scheme from, say, the triple option. But when you have 4 downs and you score if you make half a yard per snap, it's hard to justify throwing.
10-26-2019 07:54 PM
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temchugh Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 05:56 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  I mean, we *are*, miraculously, legitimately in all of these games to the bitter end, which is an achievement.

I don't really agree with that. Today, we were within a touchdown for most of the second half, but there was never any real threat that we would win the game. It has been like that all season.
10-26-2019 08:16 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 07:54 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 07:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 07:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 07:04 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  I am sympathetic to your position but the truth has to be somewhere in the middle. Which system could be successfully run by a QB who throws an INT into double coverage on 1st and goal?
Well, if you. have him run on that play he doesn't throw the pick. And might even score the TD.
But seriously, you have a whole different scheme. You build your scheme around what he can do rather than forcing him to do what he can't.
Ironic, though, isn't it? The system is running, and that's what they didn't on 1st and goal from the 2.

But this system is power running, and often it is hard to do that against a goal line defense without an imposing o-line. This is a very different running scheme from, say, the triple option. But when you have 4 downs and you score if you make half a yard per snap, it's hard to justify throwing.


I think it was actually a good call.... but the QB absolutely, positively, under NO circumstances is to force the throw. It's there or you throw it to the cheap seats....

because yes, you still have 3 plays to try and 'power run'
10-26-2019 08:34 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 08:34 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I think it was actually a good call.... but the QB absolutely, positively, under NO circumstances is to force the throw. It's there or you throw it to the cheap seats....
because yes, you still have 3 plays to try and 'power run'

It was certainly a reasonable call. Hard to say a "good" call because it didn't work out well. But as you say, you must have a QB who understands that either it's there quick or you throw it away and live another day. You cannot get picked on 1st down in the red zone.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2019 10:23 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-26-2019 08:41 PM
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
Our only TD today was the result of a phantom 'hands to the face' call like Packers/Lions game and then a PI call. It was not due to us. It was due to So. Miss mistakes and Zebras. Just inept. Much already said about QB play but the OL is terrible and you can't run this offense without strong contributions at TE or FB which are invisible. It is year more than half-way through year-2, not year one. What is concerning is that we are not seeing improvement. Offense is regressing and Rice is one of 130 other FBS teams with injuries at this point of season. Can't make that an excuse. So Miss and UTSA are the two weakest teams faced this year.

Shout-out to Smith and the Defense. This loss was not on them.

Don't think I can name one offensive coordinator to head coach promotion where the offense regresses after the hire. Owl offense should be comfortably move from the bottom 10 of all FBS offenses to the bottom 5 of all FBS offenses after this week. And they have played bad D's like Texas, Wake, UTSA, La Tech, and So Miss, etc. none of which are the 27 Yankees. UTEP which is actually one of a few offenses that are worse than Rice in Total Offense are on pace to put more yards up on La Tech tonight than Rice did.

We are moving from week-to-week datapoints to now a body of work. You are what your record says you are. A really bad offensive football team. 0-11 Owls against 1-10 UTEP Miners on 11/30 will be the pillow fight of the year. C'mon JK.
10-26-2019 10:03 PM
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
It wasn't a phantom hands to the face call - that was a good call. I'm not sure about that PI call, but there were at least two early non-calls in the 1st half that should have been called that possibly could have led to 1st half scores. One was maybe around the 10 yard line against Trammell?

The refs today were brutal. The capper was them overturning a play from two plays earlier due to technical issues with the beeper not working as the referee explained it? That was a first (and it helped keep things at 13-6 after USM then missed a short field goal attempt).
10-26-2019 10:18 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 10:18 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  It wasn't a phantom hands to the face call - that was a good call. I'm not sure about that PI call, but there were at least two early non-calls in the 1st half that should have been called that possibly could have led to 1st half scores. One was maybe around the 10 yard line against Trammell?
The refs today were brutal. The capper was them overturning a play from two plays earlier due to technical issues with the beeper not working as the referee explained it? That was a first (and it helped keep things at 13-6 after USM then missed a short field goal attempt).

It's CUSA. You expect great refs?
10-26-2019 10:22 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(10-26-2019 10:03 PM)owl40 Wrote:  Don't think I can name one offensive coordinator to head coach promotion where the offense regresses after the hire.

If it's any consolation, the offense he left has gotten worse since he is gone.
10-26-2019 10:34 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
The "opened up" offense in the 2nd half was like watching Hatfield's inept attempts at the passing game. Rice had just 3 receivers in the pattern on virtually every pass attempt, and that just won't do it in 2019. Clearly, they were going "max protect" to try for more time, but the entire "scheme" was just what one would expect from someone with no clue and no desire to use the forward pass.
10-26-2019 10:42 PM
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Exclamation RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
Ouch!, Rice
10-26-2019 10:58 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
Positive:
* I'm glad Bloomgren has shown a willingness to move away from players who are struggling. One criticism of Bailiff is that he seemed to stick with his starters way too long. It sucks for Green to lose his starter role to Stewart and then get replaced by Marshman. But I applaud Bloomgren for making the changes in both cases. It sends a message to the rest of the team that this is a meritocracy.
* Defense continues to look pretty darn good considering where Rice was a few years ago and what we can recruit as a not-good G5 team.
* Other than our FG/extra-point issues, special teams continues to look pretty solid. Not as good as last year, but we aren't losing games because of special teams.

Neutral:
* I was happy to see Marshman get a chance. 2 of 5 passing doesn't look great, but he hit receivers in the hands on 2 of his other throws (one drop and one batted away by the defender). The 4 sacks were pretty terrible, seems like he could have either ran earlier or thrown earlier on a couple of them. Tough though when Rice is obviously needing to throw in those last few drives, given the game situation. I'm still more interested than seeing him or Johnson than Stewart or Green next week. Stewart might be better (I'm not equipped to know that), but Marshman or Johnson would at least make me interested in watching the game to see what happens. We know who Stewart and Green are at this point.

Negative:
* The offense. There is no way the skill level is this low. Trammell, Rozner, and Pitre are good. I think the RB's (even with Walter injured) are solid enough. The o-line hasn't been great. But something about the play design and play-calling just isn't working. Our QB's have been pretty bad, but I don't think the suckitude is just the QBs and o-line. But I refuse to believe we are even close to maximizing talent on offense. I was happy to see a little less "pound the rock" in this game. But that doesn't mean that chucking the ball 30+ yards downfield so many times was a great gameplan either.
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2019 11:30 PM by mrbig.)
10-26-2019 11:27 PM
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wiessguy Offline
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RE: Post-game thread: Rice v USM
Same 01-rivals01-rivals01-rivals01-rivals different week. What’s the over/ under on how many alumni who come to next week’s homecoming tailgate actually come into the stadium?
10-27-2019 12:25 AM
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Post-game thread: Rice v USM
(null)
Welcome back to the G5, Coogs!
Looks like your post got deleted before I could quote it.

p.s.
Chase Clement 56, the nfl’s Case Keenum 42.
10-27-2019 09:54 AM
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