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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #61
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 09:23 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Couldn’t get the National Anthem to work before the VB game on Sunday. The VB Owls has to lead a decent crowd in an a cappella version. Nice job by the VB team!

It wasn't intended, but in some ways that's a feature, not a bug. It would be a good thing for society if the National Anthem were always sung by the crowd alone.

As stated on other occasions in other threads, national songs should be sung by the people, not by specialists. Nationhood is not a spectator sport.
10-28-2019 12:03 PM
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ranfin Offline
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Post: #62
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-27-2019 09:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 09:31 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 09:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  [quote='OldOwl' pid='16403732' dateline='1572228695']
I thought Dr K already developed a plan for athletics? Was it not approved or are you referring to something else?
What did it say?
I remember something that was basically a maintenance plan. But maintaining the status quo won't get it done. We need quantum improvement. And a plan to get there, plus the motivation to get us there.
When he addressed the faithful shortly after his arrival, I remember him talking about, in no particular order:
* goal of top 25 finishes in all sports
* market research/data collection to understand current and potential fans
* the need to increase ticket revenue
* the need to move Rice athletics into the 21st century
Not really plan details.

So platitudes, not a plan.
[/quote

Not really platitudes if he’s held accountable for reaching goals
10-28-2019 12:25 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #63
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 12:03 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 09:23 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Couldn’t get the National Anthem to work before the VB game on Sunday. The VB Owls has to lead a decent crowd in an a cappella version. Nice job by the VB team!

It wasn't intended, but in some ways that's a feature, not a bug. It would be a good thing for society if the National Anthem were always sung by the crowd alone.

As stated on other occasions in other threads, national songs should be sung by the people, not by specialists. Nationhood is not a spectator sport.

Don't disagree, but the awkward silence, plus a few false starts before they got the rendition going, were uncomfortable at best.

I'm just glad the VB Owls stepped up when no one else seemed to know how to proceed!
10-28-2019 01:53 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #64
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 01:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 12:03 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 09:23 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Couldn’t get the National Anthem to work before the VB game on Sunday. The VB Owls has to lead a decent crowd in an a cappella version. Nice job by the VB team!

It wasn't intended, but in some ways that's a feature, not a bug. It would be a good thing for society if the National Anthem were always sung by the crowd alone.

As stated on other occasions in other threads, national songs should be sung by the people, not by specialists. Nationhood is not a spectator sport.

Don't disagree, but the awkward silence, plus a few false starts before they got the rendition going, were uncomfortable at best.
I can imagine.

(10-28-2019 01:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  I'm just glad the VB Owls stepped up when no one else seemed to know how to proceed!
Really cool that they did.
10-28-2019 03:26 PM
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OldOwl Offline
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Post: #65
RE: AD Replacement Thread
Why doesn’t Rice or Conf USA have a commentator at these games. It looks looks like a high school presentation.
(10-28-2019 01:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 12:03 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 09:23 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Couldn’t get the National Anthem to work before the VB game on Sunday. The VB Owls has to lead a decent crowd in an a cappella version. Nice job by the VB team!

It wasn't intended, but in some ways that's a feature, not a bug. It would be a good thing for society if the National Anthem were always sung by the crowd alone.

As stated on other occasions in other threads, national songs should be sung by the people, not by specialists. Nationhood is not a spectator sport.

Don't disagree, but the awkward silence, plus a few false starts before they got the rendition going, were uncomfortable at best.

I'm just glad the VB Owls stepped up when no one else seemed to know how to proceed!
10-28-2019 04:34 PM
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Tomball Owl Offline
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Post: #66
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 04:34 PM)OldOwl Wrote:  Why doesn’t Rice or Conf USA have a commentator at these games. It looks looks like a high school presentation.
(10-28-2019 01:53 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 12:03 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 09:23 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Couldn’t get the National Anthem to work before the VB game on Sunday. The VB Owls has to lead a decent crowd in an a cappella version. Nice job by the VB team!

It wasn't intended, but in some ways that's a feature, not a bug. It would be a good thing for society if the National Anthem were always sung by the crowd alone.

As stated on other occasions in other threads, national songs should be sung by the people, not by specialists. Nationhood is not a spectator sport.

Don't disagree, but the awkward silence, plus a few false starts before they got the rendition going, were uncomfortable at best.

I'm just glad the VB Owls stepped up when no one else seemed to know how to proceed!

Rice, and I am pretty sure every other school, does. The PA announcer provides a brief update fter every point, i.e., service ace, point Rice.
10-28-2019 06:23 PM
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Exclamation RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-27-2019 07:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 04:55 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  Ok. So the BOT and leebron are pro athletics not sure i believe. Is it just too far gone which i think?

Not pro to the extent that presidents and boards are at, say, SEC schools. But certainly not anti.

I still think if they were presented with a reasonable plan, they would open some purse strings. But without a plan, there's nothing really for them to do.

I'll not quote your longer post just above, Owl#s, of which I basically agree with and have agreed with for many of the past years.
But what I'm hearing from what you state, and correct me if I'm wrong, is something like: "It's 2+2. And if we simply have two+two, we should get 4."

Okay, but what we're seeing seems like the equivalent of 2+2=-5, or something nonsensical like that.
In other words, you appear to be saying "All the Prez. and BOT want is a plan from the AD and we're basically good-to-go." (i.e. 2+2)

But what doesn't seem to compute is the "-5" part (i.e. the Prez and BOT hired the Dang AD, and if all they really wanted was a plan from them and then they'd pretty much get fully behind it and fund it/allow it to be funded/just do it, then some of us/many of us here have a hard time seeing as why the dang bosses (i.e. Prez and BOT) don't just DEMAND a plan from the AD as a condition for him keeping his job. And if they don't like the plan as presented, they either modify it to something they do like and can and will get behind, or demand that the AD present another one until they get one they do like and will support.

The problem seems to be either that:
a) no plan has been presented (as you indicate is the reason
b) that a plan or plans have been presented and the Prez/BOT do not like at all
c ) that a plan or plans have been presented but the Prez/BOT actually aren't actually serious/sincere as to that being the main ingredient that is missing for them to take decisive/public and positive action with regards to Rice's half-century long debacle in athletics, more or less.
or even worse, as I suggested, that
d) the "plan" is to find a way to slowly let Rice athletics die as alumni who actually care dwindle and die off
e) ADs have been to chicken-$#!- to present anything, despite being asked, possibly repeatedly to do so

To me,
a) is nonsensical: You expect us to believe that the boss who hires the AD to not require him to do what appears to be a basic part of his job and get away with it (then again, previous coach did for 11 years and increased salary all along the way, so I guess it's possible that Prez and BOT are actually that dumb; which bodes not well for the University as a whole
b) No one makes one of these public in 50+ years, and it's all kept hush-hush as we disintegrate; hard to believe, and/or sad/pathetic (which I think is the word you used to describe football performance in a thread regarding state of program after last week's game)
c ) Much more likely based on the actual evidence of what we have seen/are continuing to see in Rice Athletics
d) Very possible, and also very sad/pathetic, in light of what sports do for almost any university, regardless of academic level or standing, across the board in modern society.
e) Patton asks his subordinates to get things done his way, as he's their boss. Subs don't/refuse to do it his way- Patton removes them and finds someone who will, and makes it very clear that is a condition of them keeping their job. I could believe allowing 1 AD not to do his job in 50 years, but, what, 8 or 9 in a row? With the exception of Ranger Rick, who was a complete Douche, what are the others' excuses? No, I don;t think anyone ever required them to do anything like present a plan at all--in fact it appears that is the more likely condition for being hired/keeping their job, and it's a chciken$#!- way to run a major university ADept. But have no fear, Rice slips annual in the academic prestige rankings, so they are succeeding at strangling/destroying the academic reputation of the school and its alumns' degrees as well as athletics--kudos, I guess.

I think the major sticking point is the dire and readily apparent need to change the university's policy on corporate donations and allowing the Athletic Dept to function like the current market demands it should in order to have a chance at success. Also, some apparently illogical random constraint that says that despite the market, can't pay market rates for market-grade talent because, wah, that's more than some professors (or the Prez) makes, so we will instead ignore reality and pretend.

You certainly don't discover buckyballs with that kind of attitude, and you certainly don't remain an academic leader with it either. If that's the kind of correct-think being applied at Rice, some version of Rice Orwellianism, then it appears to lead to the illogic we have today.

You say it's just 2+2 and it will equal 4, but we get -5 instead. Something has to be wrong with the original equation here, because it's not simply 2+2 they have asked for/are asking for. It doesn't compute. #henceRice athletics.

heck, you just laid out a framework of a plan (and have before) is the AD/BOT/Prez so obtuse as to not be capable of seeing that, adapting and presenting it to themselves? Either they are really, really dumb, or they don;t give a crap to demand performance from those they employ/themselves. Sounds like...Congress. Maybe that is where they get their model, and it would explain a lot. But I digest (with indigestion--pass the Pepto).
10-28-2019 10:08 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #68
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 10:08 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  The problem seems to be either that:
a) no plan has been presented (as you indicate is the reason
b) that a plan or plans have been presented and the Prez/BOT do not like at all
c) that a plan or plans have been presented but the Prez/BOT actually aren't actually serious/sincere as to that being the main ingredient that is missing for them to take decisive/public and positive action with regards to Rice's half-century long debacle in athletics, more or less.
or even worse, as I suggested, that
d) the "plan" is to find a way to slowly let Rice athletics die as alumni who actually care dwindle and die off
e) ADs have been to chicken-$#!- to present anything, despite being asked, possibly repeatedly to do so
To me,
a) is nonsensical: You expect us to believe that the boss who hires the AD to not require him to do what appears to be a basic part of his job and get away with it (then again, previous coach did for 11 years and increased salary all along the way, so I guess it's possible that Prez and BOT are actually that dumb; which bodes not well for the University as a whole
...

I agree that a) is nonsensical. I also think that is what has happened.

Let me explain. I think the AD job basically encompasses two elements:
1) The managerial/administrative part - running the business and administrative side of athletics, the routine day-to-day stuff, possibly extending as far as hiring and firing coaches
2) The leadership/visionary part - planning the future, selling and implementing the plan, executing the plan, and accomplishing the planned outcome/results

As an analogy, suppose you are going on a trip. The manager makes sure that everyone's luggage is packed an loaded, that the tires are all inflated, and that there is fuel in the tank. The leader figures out where we are going.

The "Rice way" has traditionally wanted ADs who did the management side only. I know of at least one AD who was promised the job as long as he did not "make waves." The first guy to take the leadership/visionary side seriously, to my knowledge, was Chris. And Chris was more a bricks-and-mortar guy than a butts-in-seats guy. Bobby was probably the best manager/administrator we have ever had, and that kept the program from totally dying 30 years ago. Others and I tried to get Bobby to be more of a visionary leader, but that just wasn't his approach. I know of one football player alum who became a high-priced management consultant, that basically donated a summer of his time to trying to develop a strategic plan. I got all excited when he told me what he was doing. He came up with some very interesting ideas, but for whatever reason Bobby did not push them forward. I'm aware of other idea people, but Bobby wouldn't push the ideas forward.

I think Joe was hired with the manager role in mind and not the visionary leader. I think he has done a decent job with the manager/admin side, but I have been very disappointed in him as the visionary leader. I actually expected that, with his Stanford background, he would very quickly come up with a new "Rice way" that would be sort of "Stanford lite," and was really awaiting it.

I totally agree with your comments about corporate donations to athletics. But it's going to take something very visionary to change that.

Quote:You certainly don't discover buckyballs with that kind of attitude, and you certainly don't remain an academic leader with it either. If that's the kind of correct-think being applied at Rice, some version of Rice Orwellianism, then it appears to lead to the illogic we have today.

No, you don't. Nor do you discover a spot in the XII, or SEC, or B1G, or ACC, or Pac-12, or even American that way. Maybe you don't even hang onto CUSA. And I think that is exactly how we got here.

Fortunately, that sort of attitude does not seem pervasive outside athletics. Unfortunately, it does seem--and has seemed for years--to be SOP around athletics. Joe is fighting a lot of inertia. I don't know whether he is up to it. And quite frankly, I doubt that he knows.

Right now, I think we need a butts-in-seats visionary as AD. I surely thought Joe was going to be exactly that. I have surely been disappointed on that front.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2019 11:10 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-28-2019 11:04 PM
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WRCisforgotten79 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: AD Replacement Thread
No matter how bad you think this team is, Akron and Massachusetts are off-the-scale bad. Please limit the hyperbole. In fact, both Old Dominion and UTEP from our conference are worse.
10-28-2019 11:21 PM
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-27-2019 09:41 PM)franklyconfused Wrote:  This is the strategic plan for 2019-2023. The meat starts on the seventh page of the PDF (labeled as page 5). Goals 4, 5, and 6 are most pertinent for this discussion as they're meant to improve competitiveness. Goals 1-3 are about making current athletes happy and successful as students (somewhat related towards minimizing dropouts/transfers). Goals 7-10 are about revenue.

This is more than I have seen before, but it is still more platitudes than plan.
10-28-2019 11:33 PM
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 11:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The "Rice way" has traditionally wanted ADs who did the management side only. I know of at least one AD who was promised the job as long as he did not "make waves." The first guy to take the leadership/visionary side seriously, to my knowledge, was Chris. And Chris was more a bricks-and-mortar guy than a butts-in-seats guy. Bobby was probably the best manager/administrator we have ever had, and that kept the program from totally dying 30 years ago. Others and I tried to get Bobby to be more of a visionary leader, but that just wasn't his approach. I know of one football player alum who became a high-priced management consultant, that basically donated a summer of his time to trying to develop a strategic plan. I got all excited when he told me what he was doing. He came up with some very interesting ideas, but for whatever reason Bobby did not push them forward. I'm aware of other idea people, but Bobby wouldn't push the ideas forward.

I always wondered what happened to that-good LB was behind that-and it just seemed to kind of fade away as did the McKenzie report. Think the hope for both would be to find that magical 4 leaf clover that didn't really require true commitment or effort.

I gotta tell u when the man in charge has multiple business lines and some always get attention, while others are allowed to continue to fail without focus and the only reason is that the VPs for those lines aren't hacking it, sure seems like there isn't much interest. I think option 4 is the true situation or maybe the man doesn't understand the business to gauge or create success (ie, focus on money spent as opposed to spending money to make money). In my line of business, we see that a lot where we can create savings, but the all mighty budget on advisors is what matters, not that those advisors can create net bottom line benefit.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2019 11:42 PM by texowl2.)
10-28-2019 11:38 PM
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 10:08 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Also, some apparently illogical random constraint that says that despite the market, can't pay market rates for market-grade talent because, wah, that's more than some professors (or the Prez) makes, so we will instead ignore reality and pretend.

You certainly don't discover buckyballs with that kind of attitude

Buckyballs actually were discovered with that type of attitude. It was pure accident and happenstance. The story I heard from some of the post-docs and students under Smalley made it clear that 'hold my beer' 'Florida resident headline worthy' acts can lead to utterly Nobel-worthy results.
10-29-2019 07:09 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 11:38 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 11:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The "Rice way" has traditionally wanted ADs who did the management side only. I know of at least one AD who was promised the job as long as he did not "make waves." The first guy to take the leadership/visionary side seriously, to my knowledge, was Chris. And Chris was more a bricks-and-mortar guy than a butts-in-seats guy. Bobby was probably the best manager/administrator we have ever had, and that kept the program from totally dying 30 years ago. Others and I tried to get Bobby to be more of a visionary leader, but that just wasn't his approach. I know of one football player alum who became a high-priced management consultant, that basically donated a summer of his time to trying to develop a strategic plan. I got all excited when he told me what he was doing. He came up with some very interesting ideas, but for whatever reason Bobby did not push them forward. I'm aware of other idea people, but Bobby wouldn't push the ideas forward.
I always wondered what happened to that-good LB was behind that-and it just seemed to kind of fade away as did the McKenzie report. Think the hope for both would be to find that magical 4 leaf clover that didn't really require true commitment or effort.
I gotta tell u when the man in charge has multiple business lines and some always get attention, while others are allowed to continue to fail without focus and the only reason is that the VPs for those lines aren't hacking it, sure seems like there isn't much interest. I think option 4 is the true situation or maybe the man doesn't understand the business to gauge or create success (ie, focus on money spent as opposed to spending money to make money). In my line of business, we see that a lot where we can create savings, but the all mighty budget on advisors is what matters, not that those advisors can create net bottom line benefit.

Yes he was a good LB. And IMO did a good job with the study. But as you note, it just died.

Some of my comments may have come across as super-critical of Bobby. That's not the way I intend them. The "Rice way" was--or became--for the AD to be a caretaker. That's the environment Bobby grew up in. From the time he graduated from HS until he retired, Bobby spent something like one year away from Rice. I have said many times how much I wish that Bobby had, early in his career, spent some time at Stanford or Duke, or working for somebody like Don Canham at Michigan--the leader in the modern athletic director evolution. But he spent all his time in a model with the AD as caretaker, so that's the model he knew and understood. As bright and capable as he was, if he had learned a different paradigm, and had been able to apply it at Rice, we'd be light years better off than we are.

I remember when Todd came to Rice, he was not just a bull in a China shop, he was a bull determined to break everything in that China shop--good or bad--and he broke a lot of good things along the way. Chris recalls telling him one day, "Slow down. Rome wasn't built in a day," to which Todd replied, "That's because I wasn't in charge." We need to find an ethical Todd Graham, a good cop instead of a bad cop, if that analogy works--actually two of them, maybe the one for AD even more than the one for football coach.
10-29-2019 11:06 AM
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Exclamation RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-29-2019 07:09 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 10:08 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Also, some apparently illogical random constraint that says that despite the market, can't pay market rates for market-grade talent because, wah, that's more than some professors (or the Prez) makes, so we will instead ignore reality and pretend.

You certainly don't discover buckyballs with that kind of attitude

Buckyballs actually were discovered with that type of attitude. It was pure accident and happenstance. The story I heard from some of the post-docs and students under Smalley made it clear that 'hold my beer' 'Florida resident headline worthy' acts can lead to utterly Nobel-worthy results.

Okay, I hera you, but it seems either we've found our ration of nuts using the blind squirrel method OR we're about to win our first Football National Championship keeping all major things just the way they are. Which seems more likely? (Unconventional wisdom).

Saban commented today that Alabama is shaking something terrible at the thought of being down 0-4 to us all-time (not.)
10-29-2019 12:12 PM
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-28-2019 10:08 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  The problem seems to be either that:
. . .
c ) that a plan or plans have been presented but the Prez/BOT actually aren't actually serious/sincere as to that being the main ingredient that is missing for them to take decisive/public and positive action . . .

. . .
c ) Much more likely based on the actual evidence of what we have seen/are continuing to see in Rice Athletics

c) is a common operating method in academia. It may not be applicable to our board or to athletics matters, but it absolutely describes the operating method of many university offices.
10-29-2019 12:37 PM
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-29-2019 11:06 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 11:38 PM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 11:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The "Rice way" has traditionally wanted ADs who did the management side only. I know of at least one AD who was promised the job as long as he did not "make waves." The first guy to take the leadership/visionary side seriously, to my knowledge, was Chris. And Chris was more a bricks-and-mortar guy than a butts-in-seats guy. Bobby was probably the best manager/administrator we have ever had, and that kept the program from totally dying 30 years ago. Others and I tried to get Bobby to be more of a visionary leader, but that just wasn't his approach. I know of one football player alum who became a high-priced management consultant, that basically donated a summer of his time to trying to develop a strategic plan. I got all excited when he told me what he was doing. He came up with some very interesting ideas, but for whatever reason Bobby did not push them forward. I'm aware of other idea people, but Bobby wouldn't push the ideas forward.
I always wondered what happened to that-good LB was behind that-and it just seemed to kind of fade away as did the McKenzie report. Think the hope for both would be to find that magical 4 leaf clover that didn't really require true commitment or effort.
I gotta tell u when the man in charge has multiple business lines and some always get attention, while others are allowed to continue to fail without focus and the only reason is that the VPs for those lines aren't hacking it, sure seems like there isn't much interest. I think option 4 is the true situation or maybe the man doesn't understand the business to gauge or create success (ie, focus on money spent as opposed to spending money to make money). In my line of business, we see that a lot where we can create savings, but the all mighty budget on advisors is what matters, not that those advisors can create net bottom line benefit.

Yes he was a good LB. And IMO did a good job with the study. But as you note, it just died.

Some of my comments may have come across as super-critical of Bobby. That's not the way I intend them. The "Rice way" was--or became--for the AD to be a caretaker. That's the environment Bobby grew up in. From the time he graduated from HS until he retired, Bobby spent something like one year away from Rice. I have said many times how much I wish that Bobby had, early in his career, spent some time at Stanford or Duke, or working for somebody like Don Canham at Michigan--the leader in the modern athletic director evolution. But he spent all his time in a model with the AD as caretaker, so that's the model he knew and understood. As bright and capable as he was, if he had learned a different paradigm, and had been able to apply it at Rice, we'd be light years better off than we are.

I remember when Todd came to Rice, he was not just a bull in a China shop, he was a bull determined to break everything in that China shop--good or bad--and he broke a lot of good things along the way. Chris recalls telling him one day, "Slow down. Rome wasn't built in a day," to which Todd replied, "That's because I wasn't in charge." We need to find an ethical Todd Graham, a good cop instead of a bad cop, if that analogy works--actually two of them, maybe the one for AD even more than the one for football coach.

Another good post on the subject. I have no love for TG the unethical man, but I do have admiration for his willingness to do whatever needed to be done despite the losing culture and to seek to do it as quickly as possible, because he correctly recognized the obvious: Rice desperately needs that and he wasn't afraid to be that guy. And, despite his faults, he was and remains one of the better football coaches we have had here on S. Main, despite what we may feel about him personally. He was also entertaining-another thing sorely missed here--our Jerry Glanville, if you will. (He was good at the job, despite being a flawed man--reminds me of a more current situation, but I digress). Sure, he had some luck, but he rapidly put us in position to capitalize on the luck he was ready for. I do think he would have scored more than a single touchdown against Miss State had he been in charge during the Liberty Bowl debacle.

I understand about Bobby, I liked him for what he was at the time. But I also agree we need something besides a Bobby May type, or a JK type. We need a change agent who is ethical and capable. I suspect there is one out there somewhere, but I'm unconvinced we'd want to pay him/her what it would cost, which is back to being penny smart and pound foolish.

Although McKinsey study is old and somewhat outdated, its main premise stands valid today as ever: $#!- or get off the pot. The only $#!--!ng Rice Athletics results say we seems to do (in the major men's sports, that is) is on the fields of play.

I will disagree with one of your points--it seems fantastic to believe a leadership team could be as pro-athletics as you try to indicate and not demand a flipping real plan (not platitudes and generalities as apparently we have accepted in place of an actual plan--per the posts above referring to one by JK) from the guy they hired for that job. You can certainly argue that JK is just doing what's expected/ordered and is just a caretaker/manager, and that part would make sense. But to say the admin/BOT cares for something else but somehow simply has not gotten it from the guys they hired just doesn't add up. (edit: to me, at least, as I've fired enough folks who, even after I invested in their training, etc... just couldn't or wouldn't do the job I asked as I asked them to do it.)

They don't appear in any way, shape or form to actually want a real plan, and your example of TG seems to reveal that, as maybe they got so butt-hurt by what happened by that scumbag, that they just decided to give up. That's small-time, leading from behind thinking, and it doesn't work (as we've seen.) "Hey, we're Rice; we accidentally invented buckyballs, but now we'll just give up and let everyone else take over, 'cause we don't want to do actual work that isn't an accident, wink, and it costs too much, and everybody else is wrong, and America is full of people who don't know how sports really work, but we do." Same institutional elitism and myopia that brings down nations. Kinda Xerox and the GUI, or flatscreen technology.

But Rice admin will likely get their wish to be fully D-III sooner than later because looks likely we're about to have paid college athletes--which probably settles the matter. I say pay 'em all, give them each a five-year scholarship they can bank and use anytime after[ their playing days are over under the same standards as regular students, and let them focus on wearing the school colors as employees. Get rid of the NCAA's tax-exemption and the lie of non-profit status. Might as well do the same for universities and make them all the for-profit businesses they actually are. nowadays. End all government grants/loans other than GI-Bill (serving your country should count for something , and rich or poor can earn it equally without discrimination.) Then allow work-for hire and right to work to treat them like businesses. Kid makes a good play-pay him a bonus. $10,000 per sack? $5,000 per completed pass. $20,000 per touchdown. $12,000 per field goal. $1,000 for a made PAT. $7,000 for a punt downed inside the opponent 15. No classes to worry about until your career is over, and then Rice could truly have a chance to recruit better based on its superior degree, while the state schools kept the dummies due to their larger alumni networks.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 12:46 PM by GoodOwl.)
10-29-2019 12:41 PM
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Almadenmike Offline
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Post: #77
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-29-2019 12:41 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  I do think he would have scored more than a single touchdown against Miss State had he been in charge during the Liberty Bowl debacle.

No doubt! After all, Toad's team DID score 2 TDs (and a FG) against mighty Troy in the 2006 New Orleans Bowl's ideal Superdome weather.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2019 01:48 PM by Almadenmike.)
10-29-2019 01:48 PM
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RiceFootball2K5 Offline
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Post: #78
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-29-2019 01:48 PM)Almadenmike Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 12:41 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  I do think he would have scored more than a single touchdown against Miss State had he been in charge during the Liberty Bowl debacle.

No doubt! After all, Toad's team DID score 2 TDs (and a FG) against mighty Troy in the 2006 New Orleans Bowl's ideal Superdome weather.

With a backup QB...
10-29-2019 02:01 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #79
RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-29-2019 12:37 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 10:08 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  The problem seems to be either that:
. . .
c ) that a plan or plans have been presented but the Prez/BOT actually aren't actually serious/sincere as to that being the main ingredient that is missing for them to take decisive/public and positive action . . .

. . .
c ) Much more likely based on the actual evidence of what we have seen/are continuing to see in Rice Athletics

c) is a common operating method in academia. It may not be applicable to our board or to athletics matters, but it absolutely describes the operating method of many university offices.

I believe option c) as well.

Karlgaard gave a Thresher interview a couple years ago in which he said that when he came to Rice, there was (allegedly) a lot of enthusiasm for making a TCU-like push to get back to a P5 conference. And then it dissipated and he's not sure what happened to it.

There have also been posts on here within the past few years from people connected to BOT members who do *not* believe that investment in athletics would provide any return academically (and as a corollary, do not believe that athletic futility and invisibility could bring any negative repercussions to our academic standing).

Reading between the lines, then, my assumption is that Karlgaard was probably interviewed and hired by pro-athletics folks, whom he probably (mistakenly, naively) believed spoke for all of Rice. And that he probably did put together a plan to restore Rice to P5 status, but that it died at the BOT once it ran into the aforementioned opposition. And Leebron was either unable or unwilling to buck that opposition.

Having been told to stay in his lane, JK then had to go back to the drawing board to put together a much more modest plan that amounts to we're going to strive for "excellence" but not P5, i.e., we'll try and do the best we can where we are.

So actually, I feel a bit sorry for JK, as I think he was probably sold a bill of goods on how ambitious Rice was willing to be (true answer turned out to be not at all) and now is likely stuck here unless he is willing to make a lateral/downward move. With that said, he could probably still be doing a better job even within the prevailing constraints.

I guess time will tell if the BOT folks who believe our academic reputation is unsinkable (like the Titanic) no matter what sort of company we keep in athletics are right or not.
10-29-2019 03:32 PM
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RE: AD Replacement Thread
(10-29-2019 03:32 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(10-29-2019 12:37 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 10:08 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  The problem seems to be either that:
. . .
c ) that a plan or plans have been presented but the Prez/BOT actually aren't actually serious/sincere as to that being the main ingredient that is missing for them to take decisive/public and positive action . . .

. . .
c ) Much more likely based on the actual evidence of what we have seen/are continuing to see in Rice Athletics

c) is a common operating method in academia. It may not be applicable to our board or to athletics matters, but it absolutely describes the operating method of many university offices.

I believe option c) as well.

Karlgaard gave a Thresher interview a couple years ago in which he said that when he came to Rice, there was (allegedly) a lot of enthusiasm for making a TCU-like push to get back to a P5 conference. And then it dissipated and he's not sure what happened to it.

There have also been posts on here within the past few years from people connected to BOT members who do *not* believe that investment in athletics would provide any return academically (and as a corollary, do not believe that athletic futility and invisibility could bring any negative repercussions to our academic standing).

Reading between the lines, then, my assumption is that Karlgaard was probably interviewed and hired by pro-athletics folks, whom he probably (mistakenly, naively) believed spoke for all of Rice. And that he probably did put together a plan to restore Rice to P5 status, but that it died at the BOT once it ran into the aforementioned opposition. And Leebron was either unable or unwilling to buck that opposition.

Having been told to stay in his lane, JK then had to go back to the drawing board to put together a much more modest plan that amounts to we're going to strive for "excellence" but not P5, i.e., we'll try and do the best we can where we are.

So actually, I feel a bit sorry for JK, as I think he was probably sold a bill of goods on how ambitious Rice was willing to be (true answer turned out to be not at all) and now is likely stuck here unless he is willing to make a lateral/downward move. With that said, he could probably still be doing a better job even within the prevailing constraints.

I guess time will tell if the BOT folks who believe our academic reputation is unsinkable (like the Titanic) no matter what sort of company we keep in athletics are right or not.

Nice try, but no. Stop blaming Leebron and the BOT.
10-29-2019 05:12 PM
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