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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #21
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-26-2019 10:23 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  I chose not to touch the MAC.

Sun Belt
West: North Texas, Arkansas St, Louisiana Tech, UL Lafayette, Southern Miss, UAB
East: Troy, Georgia Southern, Appalachian St, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee St, Marshall
About as good as it could get.

MTSU and WKU could be switched out in whole or partial with CCU and GaSt
10-27-2019 07:50 AM
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Cajuns1252 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-26-2019 06:26 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 05:35 PM)Cajuns1252 Wrote:  If a new theoretical 12 team conference could come about (with all major sports Football, Basketball, Baseball, Softball) of the best teams from the MAC, C-USA, and Sunbelt.
Softball = “major sports” now? Hmmm

And baseball is kinda iffy, too.

Just out of curiosity what do you consider a major sport football and basketball only?
10-27-2019 10:40 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #23
RE: New Conference Opinion.
I think you may need schools to be close by to also draw fans including fans that would travel to the games. That is a problem with far flung conferences that do not have fans in the same region. With less media deals for G5, you need fans to go the games that can go by car. Look a t Alabama State versus UAB? 40,000 fans and a lot of them from Alabama State. The fanbase at HBCUs seemed to come out even if their team sucks. Incarnate Word fans also came out to help sell tickets for UTSA. Eastern Washington, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and James Madison fans are more passionate as well. E. Washington had over 10,000 people for one of their home games this year. They must have put in temp seatings to sell more tickets?
10-27-2019 10:53 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #24
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 10:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think you may need schools to be close by to also draw fans including fans that would travel to the games. That is a problem with far flung conferences that do not have fans in the same region. With less media deals for G5, you need fans to go the games that can go by car. Look a t Alabama State versus UAB? 40,000 fans and a lot of them from Alabama State. The fanbase at HBCUs seemed to come out even if their team sucks. Incarnate Word fans also came out to help sell tickets for UTSA. Eastern Washington, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and James Madison fans are more passionate as well. E. Washington had over 10,000 people for one of their home games this year. They must have put in temp seatings to sell more tickets?

Fans in the stands are predicated on winning. If you take the top FCS teams and put them into the G5 down goes their winning percentages especially some of the small market, limited recruiting base programs you suggest.
10-27-2019 12:40 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 10:40 AM)Cajuns1252 Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 06:26 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 05:35 PM)Cajuns1252 Wrote:  If a new theoretical 12 team conference could come about (with all major sports Football, Basketball, Baseball, Softball) of the best teams from the MAC, C-USA, and Sunbelt.
Softball = “major sports” now? Hmmm

And baseball is kinda iffy, too.

Just out of curiosity what do you consider a major sport football and basketball only?

It depends on what the school offers and the region they play in.

Volleyball, Wrestling, Soccer are all predicated on the situation.

Hockey and Baseball by virtue of having it are major.
10-27-2019 01:01 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #26
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 12:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 10:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think you may need schools to be close by to also draw fans including fans that would travel to the games. That is a problem with far flung conferences that do not have fans in the same region. With less media deals for G5, you need fans to go the games that can go by car. Look a t Alabama State versus UAB? 40,000 fans and a lot of them from Alabama State. The fanbase at HBCUs seemed to come out even if their team sucks. Incarnate Word fans also came out to help sell tickets for UTSA. Eastern Washington, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and James Madison fans are more passionate as well. E. Washington had over 10,000 people for one of their home games this year. They must have put in temp seatings to sell more tickets?

Fans in the stands are predicated on winning. If you take the top FCS teams and put them into the G5 down goes their winning percentages especially some of the small market, limited recruiting base programs you suggest.


Depends. Alabama State loses a lot, but the fans still show up. NC A&T, Southern and Texas Southern showed fan support no matter if their teams lose. They would like to see FBS schools.
North Dakota State and South Dakota State could both be fine at the FBS level. They know how to beat FBS schools including beating the cartel 5.
10-27-2019 01:11 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #27
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-25-2019 11:02 PM)Shox Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  North: Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Marshall, WKU, MTSU

South: UAB, GA St, App St, ULL, LA Tech, Ark St

Truthfully, a best of league makes zero sense though. C-USA and the SBC need to swap some members and regionalize into bus leagues. Save the travel money and limit midweek games among the Little 3 to no more than 1 home game a year.

I think a best of east coast league makes a ton of sense personally...

Marshall
Ohio
Buffalo
UMASS
JMU
ODU
APP
Charlotte
Georgia State
Liberty
Coastal
FAU/FIU

You've listed 13 teams right there and it illustrates the problem of connecting in "Northeast" programs like UMass, Buffalo and Ohio in a conference with southern schools when there are so many southern G5 programs now.

The only way to sort it out reasonably might be to use academics/performance rather than state coverage. On football reasons Marshall and App St have to be included in all the scenarios and ODU for both FB/BB.

Liberty, JMU and Coastal will have to be dismissed on athletics reasons to make the numbers work. Charlotte I'm not sure if they are a must for basketball or someone to exclude on FB reasons or include as a rival for App St.
10-27-2019 01:13 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #28
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 01:13 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 11:02 PM)Shox Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  North: Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Marshall, WKU, MTSU

South: UAB, GA St, App St, ULL, LA Tech, Ark St

Truthfully, a best of league makes zero sense though. C-USA and the SBC need to swap some members and regionalize into bus leagues. Save the travel money and limit midweek games among the Little 3 to no more than 1 home game a year.

I think a best of east coast league makes a ton of sense personally...

Marshall
Ohio
Buffalo
UMASS
JMU
ODU
APP
Charlotte
Georgia State
Liberty
Coastal
FAU/FIU

You've listed 13 teams right there and it illustrates the problem of connecting in "Northeast" programs like UMass, Buffalo and Ohio in a conference with southern schools when there are so many southern G5 programs now.

The only way to sort it out reasonably might be to use academics/performance rather than state coverage. On football reasons Marshall and App St have to be included in all the scenarios and ODU for both FB/BB.

Liberty, JMU and Coastal will have to be dismissed on athletics reasons to make the numbers work. Charlotte I'm not sure if they are a must for basketball or someone to exclude on FB reasons or include as a rival for App St.

Delaware and Stony Brook will follow JMU up. Both of them are R1 schools that could fit into your scenerio.
10-27-2019 01:30 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #29
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 01:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  [quote='Kit-Cat' pid='16402736' dateline='1572198028']
[quote='DavidSt' pid='16402498' dateline='1572191595']

Depends. Alabama State loses a lot, but the fans still show up. NC A&T, Southern and Texas Southern showed fan support no matter if their teams lose. They would like to see FBS schools.
North Dakota State and South Dakota State could both be fine at the FBS level. They know how to beat FBS schools including beating the cartel 5.

Another statement thrown out there with no facts. Texas Southern doesn't show up no matter what. Here's a sampling

9/1/18 vs UTPB - 1,824
10/6/18 vs Alabama A&M - 2,112
11/17/18 vs UAPB - 2,045
2 weeks ago vs Southern in Dallas - 5,136
10-27-2019 02:37 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #30
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-25-2019 05:55 PM)Statefan Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 05:35 PM)Cajuns1252 Wrote:  If a new theoretical 12 team conference could come about (with all major sports Football, Basketball, Baseball, Softball) of the best teams from the MAC, C-USA, and Sunbelt. Who would be the 12 you would select.

Rules to make the conference:

*only teams from these three conference

*teams must be full members, no associate members

*market sizes don’t necessarily need to be considered, (not trying to hear a list of a bunch of schools in major cities)

That's quite a mishmash. Taking schools out of the MAC for this new conference doesn't seem possible.

I think you have to try to preserve some cultural divisions which is another way to say no Great Lakes schools.

New Conference North:

Ohio - Athens is geographically located in Appalachia and has some basketball tradition
Miami - Ohio needs a buddy and this is the best football option
Western Kentucky - For Ohio and Miami
ODU - For Virginia
Appalachian State - For football and NC
Charlotte - For NC and SC
Middle Tennessee - For Basketball and TN

Maybe you call this the upper south division

Lower South

Ga State - For Georgia
FIU - For Florida
FAU - For Florida
Troy - For Florida Panhandle and Alabama
South Alabama - For Alabama and Mississippi
Louisiana - For Louisiana
Rice - For Texas and academic prestige

This is the best I can do, but they have so little in common.
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10-27-2019 04:45 PM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 01:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 01:13 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 11:02 PM)Shox Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  North: Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Marshall, WKU, MTSU

South: UAB, GA St, App St, ULL, LA Tech, Ark St

Truthfully, a best of league makes zero sense though. C-USA and the SBC need to swap some members and regionalize into bus leagues. Save the travel money and limit midweek games among the Little 3 to no more than 1 home game a year.

I think a best of east coast league makes a ton of sense personally...

Marshall
Ohio
Buffalo
UMASS
JMU
ODU
APP
Charlotte
Georgia State
Liberty
Coastal
FAU/FIU

You've listed 13 teams right there and it illustrates the problem of connecting in "Northeast" programs like UMass, Buffalo and Ohio in a conference with southern schools when there are so many southern G5 programs now.

The only way to sort it out reasonably might be to use academics/performance rather than state coverage. On football reasons Marshall and App St have to be included in all the scenarios and ODU for both FB/BB.

Liberty, JMU and Coastal will have to be dismissed on athletics reasons to make the numbers work. Charlotte I'm not sure if they are a must for basketball or someone to exclude on FB reasons or include as a rival for App St.

Delaware and Stony Brook will follow JMU up. Both of them are R1 schools that could fit into your scenerio.

Even more programs to have to fit into an eastern seaboard conference.
10-28-2019 01:10 AM
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Kit-Cat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: New Conference Opinion.
Conferences are driven by aspirations. Where can a program win?

UMass I believe is best served in a smaller, 8-10 member east coast based conference playing against other large low tradition schools (GSU, FAU, FIU) where they might have a prayer of winning a conference championship. An easy east coast conference.

Buffalo is an ok MAC football program with a decent recruiting base but is somewhat overmatched by the Ohio and Michigan schools. They seem more comfortable in the MAC East where the chances at a bowl is realistic than wanting FB association with UMass, GSU, FAU, FIU which are thought of as start up programs.

Ohio sees itself on the level of a Western Michigan, Northern Illinois or a Toledo. They are looking to contend as Top G5 program in the Midwest. Eastern seaboard conference is a huge downgrade. Marshall is a regional rival but is now viewed as a lessor program talent wise and the FB series was reduced to a once and a while thing.

Marshall, App State, ODU, Charlotte, Georgia St, Ga Southern can by aligning together create a regional G5 space. The SBC has a nice 10 team space but the 3 or 4 programs to take seriously every year are AState, Louisiana, Troy and App St. App has made the SBC stronger but fits into a different region.

AAC has regional rivals with Wichita, Memphis, Tulsa, SMU, Houston and Tulane but other programs are stranded. Cincinnati is in MAC country. ECU is surrounded by CUSA and SBC schools and its possible to align into a MAC like conference around there.
10-28-2019 04:16 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #33
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-28-2019 01:10 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 01:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 01:13 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 11:02 PM)Shox Wrote:  
(10-25-2019 08:48 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  North: Toledo, Miami, Ohio, Marshall, WKU, MTSU

South: UAB, GA St, App St, ULL, LA Tech, Ark St

Truthfully, a best of league makes zero sense though. C-USA and the SBC need to swap some members and regionalize into bus leagues. Save the travel money and limit midweek games among the Little 3 to no more than 1 home game a year.

I think a best of east coast league makes a ton of sense personally...

Marshall
Ohio
Buffalo
UMASS
JMU
ODU
APP
Charlotte
Georgia State
Liberty
Coastal
FAU/FIU

You've listed 13 teams right there and it illustrates the problem of connecting in "Northeast" programs like UMass, Buffalo and Ohio in a conference with southern schools when there are so many southern G5 programs now.

The only way to sort it out reasonably might be to use academics/performance rather than state coverage. On football reasons Marshall and App St have to be included in all the scenarios and ODU for both FB/BB.

Liberty, JMU and Coastal will have to be dismissed on athletics reasons to make the numbers work. Charlotte I'm not sure if they are a must for basketball or someone to exclude on FB reasons or include as a rival for App St.

Delaware and Stony Brook will follow JMU up. Both of them are R1 schools that could fit into your scenerio.

Even more programs to have to fit into an eastern seaboard conference.


UConn.
UMass.
Stony Brook
Buffalo
Marshall
Ohio
JMU
ODU
Delaware
Toledo
Towson
New Hampshire

You do get a northeastern conference without using any southern teams.
10-28-2019 08:33 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #34
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 02:37 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 01:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  [quote='Kit-Cat' pid='16402736' dateline='1572198028']
[quote='DavidSt' pid='16402498' dateline='1572191595']

Depends. Alabama State loses a lot, but the fans still show up. NC A&T, Southern and Texas Southern showed fan support no matter if their teams lose. They would like to see FBS schools.
North Dakota State and South Dakota State could both be fine at the FBS level. They know how to beat FBS schools including beating the cartel 5.

Another statement thrown out there with no facts. Texas Southern doesn't show up no matter what. Here's a sampling

9/1/18 vs UTPB - 1,824
10/6/18 vs Alabama A&M - 2,112
11/17/18 vs UAPB - 2,045
2 weeks ago vs Southern in Dallas - 5,136

I am not talking about those schools. I am talking about Texas Southern fans go to Rice or other bigger schools. It has to do that Alabama A&M and UAPB is not close by teams. It is one of the reasons Texas Southern is looking for a new conference like the Southland. They do not want to be associated with bottom feeders like UAPB and Alabama A&M who have a student body enrollment of a D2 school.
10-28-2019 08:38 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-28-2019 08:38 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 02:37 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 01:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  [quote='Kit-Cat' pid='16402736' dateline='1572198028']
[quote='DavidSt' pid='16402498' dateline='1572191595']

Depends. Alabama State loses a lot, but the fans still show up. NC A&T, Southern and Texas Southern showed fan support no matter if their teams lose. They would like to see FBS schools.
North Dakota State and South Dakota State could both be fine at the FBS level. They know how to beat FBS schools including beating the cartel 5.

Another statement thrown out there with no facts. Texas Southern doesn't show up no matter what. Here's a sampling

9/1/18 vs UTPB - 1,824
10/6/18 vs Alabama A&M - 2,112
11/17/18 vs UAPB - 2,045
2 weeks ago vs Southern in Dallas - 5,136

I am not talking about those schools. I am talking about Texas Southern fans go to Rice or other bigger schools. It has to do that Alabama A&M and UAPB is not close by teams. It is one of the reasons Texas Southern is looking for a new conference like the Southland. They do not want to be associated with bottom feeders like UAPB and Alabama A&M who have a student body enrollment of a D2 school.

Maybe, maybe not. The best indicator of the future is the past. It can probably be said that all schools would have increased attendance if they play power schools regularly. That’s not a good argument to make. The better evidence would be showing attendance at the top of your current level (whether G5, FCS, D2, etc.) as well as a commitment to success with actual results. That will get a school noticed. There is more to it as well: commitment to other sports, commitment to academics, commitment to facilities upgrades, etc.
10-28-2019 09:05 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #36
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-28-2019 09:05 AM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(10-28-2019 08:38 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 02:37 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 01:11 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  [quote='Kit-Cat' pid='16402736' dateline='1572198028']
[quote='DavidSt' pid='16402498' dateline='1572191595']

Depends. Alabama State loses a lot, but the fans still show up. NC A&T, Southern and Texas Southern showed fan support no matter if their teams lose. They would like to see FBS schools.
North Dakota State and South Dakota State could both be fine at the FBS level. They know how to beat FBS schools including beating the cartel 5.

Another statement thrown out there with no facts. Texas Southern doesn't show up no matter what. Here's a sampling

9/1/18 vs UTPB - 1,824
10/6/18 vs Alabama A&M - 2,112
11/17/18 vs UAPB - 2,045
2 weeks ago vs Southern in Dallas - 5,136

I am not talking about those schools. I am talking about Texas Southern fans go to Rice or other bigger schools. It has to do that Alabama A&M and UAPB is not close by teams. It is one of the reasons Texas Southern is looking for a new conference like the Southland. They do not want to be associated with bottom feeders like UAPB and Alabama A&M who have a student body enrollment of a D2 school.

Maybe, maybe not. The best indicator of the future is the past. It can probably be said that all schools would have increased attendance if they play power schools regularly. That’s not a good argument to make. The better evidence would be showing attendance at the top of your current level (whether G5, FCS, D2, etc.) as well as a commitment to success with actual results. That will get a school noticed. There is more to it as well: commitment to other sports, commitment to academics, commitment to facilities upgrades, etc.


Texas Southern is doing that for commitment to other sports, academics, facilities upgrades and all that. Several SWAC members get post season banned for not graduating the athletes aka academics a lot in recent years. Southern is another that is rumored to leave just like NC A&T. MEAC and SWAC have many schools like that. Hampton U. escaped that mess, and some others as well.
10-28-2019 09:17 AM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: New Conference Opinion.
North
Marshall
Ohio
Buffalo
Toledo
WKU
App State

South
UAB
Southern Miss
Louisiana Tech
Georgia Southern
FAU
Troy

Keep a protected cross division game each year. App State vs GA Southern, Marshall vs. Southern Miss etc.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2019 12:21 PM by MUsince96.)
10-28-2019 11:07 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: New Conference Opinion.
(10-27-2019 12:40 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 10:53 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think you may need schools to be close by to also draw fans including fans that would travel to the games. That is a problem with far flung conferences that do not have fans in the same region. With less media deals for G5, you need fans to go the games that can go by car. Look a t Alabama State versus UAB? 40,000 fans and a lot of them from Alabama State. The fanbase at HBCUs seemed to come out even if their team sucks. Incarnate Word fans also came out to help sell tickets for UTSA. Eastern Washington, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Montana, Montana State and James Madison fans are more passionate as well. E. Washington had over 10,000 people for one of their home games this year. They must have put in temp seatings to sell more tickets?

Fans in the stands are predicated on winning. If you take the top FCS teams and put them into the G5 down goes their winning percentages especially some of the small market, limited recruiting base programs you suggest.

NDSU, SDSU, JMU... not one of their winning percentage goes down in a G5 league. You may want to take a look at the rosters of the two "Dakota" State schools to see where they get their kids from. Strong FB programs with facilities that are better than a lot of G5 schools plus FCOA and they aren't having any issues recruiting outside their area.

EWU, Montana, MSU? Possibly, can't speak for them.
10-28-2019 12:49 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #39
RE: New Conference Opinion.
Every time realignment gets mentioned "location" is usually the agreed upon reason for it. I think the universities that are clearly basketball first schools will eventually say "**** this" and try to move some chess pieces and force the hand of several schools that think they can be good in both.

Basketball first Conference:

WKU
ODU
MTSU
UNCC
UAB
UTEP
*CUSA Team(UTSA/Rice/FIU/FAU/LT) -keeps 7 members together to maintain auto bid
GaSt
USA
UTA
UALR


That conference could sneak 2 into the NCAA's and being a multi-bid league has almost more value than a soso football league's tv contract and bowl share. Still, even in Football they could play a round robin and sell that game to whoever will pay the most.
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2019 01:17 PM by Yosef Himself.)
10-28-2019 12:54 PM
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mpurdy22 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: New Conference Opinion.
NORTH

Ohio
Miami (OH)
Toledo
Marshall
Western KY
MTSU

SOUTH

Southern Miss
Arkansas State
Troy
Louisiana
LA Tech
UAB
10-28-2019 02:00 PM
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