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with 800k+/year for the rest of his career because nobody has the gall to demand anything other than mediocrity at this university.

Can’t blame Tim, he received a nice extension for winning 7 games, this is the standard our AD has set for him. Probably one of the lowest pressure jobs in D1.

Why do you say the standard is 7?

6 wins his first year and no more then 6 this year.

You’d have to think that the boosters that are footing half the freight on Lester’s bloated salary have to be in KB’s ear on this garbage. This presumably is a far cry from what they expected when they initially stepped up to help make Fleck the highest paid coach in the MAC, which Lester obviously became the beneficiary of simply by walking through the door rather than earning it through performance like Fleck did. No way in hell Lester’s performance to-date would have rallied the boosters to pony-up the dough like they did for Fleck. Who the hell is going to be knocking on Lester’s door trying to hire him away to where you need to be paying him a top dollar (MAC) salary? Makes ZERO sense.

Donors need to be on the phone w/ KB now.

(10-20-2019 08:31 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Donors need to be on the phone w/ KB now.

This is the only thing that matters. If they withdraw their support (money), then Kathy will be forced to move on. If they keep it, he will be here. His salary is essentially payed by donors.

Issue when Tim arrived with regard to Donor money... it was already agreed upon during the Fleck years... if they have it to give.... you use it. If you don't you may not ever get it back again... I don't think there's a situation here where donors could pull back their offering. I don't think they just give it every year... I have a feeling it was a lump sum that they agreed upon and its being used in this fashion.

Future donations... however. That could be an issue if KB continues to allow Tim to submarine this program over the next few years.

This is why as a fan base we need to really hope Tim can turn this ship around... I don't care if he cuts his salary in half to afford some better coordinators... he needs to do something to right this ship because right now we look like we are being run by a rocket football staff...

The momentum that was built, leading up to and beyond the cotton bowl year (2016), is completely lost. Unfortunately, the momentum is perhaps the component most important to building a great program. It provides energy and enthusiasm, which reverberates from the fans, boosters, administration, students, coaches and of course the players. Winning big is the proof, or validation that what program leadership is preaching actually works. Fleck had his own way of doing things, and all while some of our local football experts knew he was no more than a big mouthed joke, who understood nothing in terms of what it takes to win at this level, proved over time that the joke was on those who favored the conventional wisdom that they value.

Lester is a good man, but a guy who believes, like many of our resident experts here, that the football book of conventional wisdom should be followed, and we have achieved in three years exactly what that approach brings.

Those who support Lester still are the same who opposed Flecks approach, from the time he got here until he left, and who almost resented the fact that he won so big; after they knew he never would. It's a matter of general philosophy. Lester and his supporters share a philosophy on football. The question is, will our administration and the people who provide the $ for football agree with them. If so, what you see is what you will be getting.

(10-21-2019 05:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  Lester is a good man, but a guy who believes, like many of our resident experts here, that the football book of conventional wisdom should be followed, and we have achieved in three years exactly what that approach brings.

Those who support Lester still are the same who opposed Flecks approach, from the time he got here until he left, and who almost resented the fact that he won so big; after they knew he never would. It's a matter of general philosophy. Lester and his supporters share a philosophy on football. The question is, will our administration and the people who provide the $ for football agree with them. If so, what you see is what you will be getting.

It reminds me a TON of Michigan and Rich Rod's tenure. He brought a lot of excitement but had enormous hurdles from long term boosters and fans. The establishment never got on board with Rich, much the same way many of the stalwarts and older fans here didn't with RTB and all of the Fleckisms, yet the players loved it and the fans it brought in were into it. Michigan canned Rich Rod for slow progress just as the program was turning the corner (there's a reason Hoke went 11-2, before burying the prestige of that program. We were fortunate enough to see all that planting and fertilizing grow a program to its highest heights.

While we were able to see Western reach that level of success, both schools next coaching hires were entirely nepotistic hires of men who got the job largely due to their affiliation with the university. Neither Hoke nor Lester deserved their gigs.

Michigan was smart enough to pull the plug on that project after the 4th season. I'm fearful we won't be.

(10-21-2019 06:04 PM)ElFanatico Wrote:  

(10-21-2019 05:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  Lester is a good man, but a guy who believes, like many of our resident experts here, that the football book of conventional wisdom should be followed, and we have achieved in three years exactly what that approach brings.

Those who support Lester still are the same who opposed Flecks approach, from the time he got here until he left, and who almost resented the fact that he won so big; after they knew he never would. It's a matter of general philosophy. Lester and his supporters share a philosophy on football. The question is, will our administration and the people who provide the $ for football agree with them. If so, what you see is what you will be getting.

It reminds me a TON of Michigan and Rich Rod's tenure. He brought a lot of excitement but had enormous hurdles from long term boosters and fans. The establishment never got on board with Rich, much the same way many of the stalwarts and older fans here didn't with RTB and all of the Fleckisms, yet the players loved it and the fans it brought in were into it. Michigan canned Rich Rod for slow progress just as the program was turning the corner (there's a reason Hoke went 11-2, before burying the prestige of that program. We were fortunate enough to see all that planting and fertilizing grow a program to its highest heights.

While we were able to see Western reach that level of success, both schools next coaching hires were entirely nepotistic hires of men who got the job largely due to their affiliation with the university. Neither Hoke nor Lester deserved their gigs.

Michigan was smart enough to pull the plug on that project after the 4th season. I'm fearful we won't be.

ElFanatico you nailed the U-M situation right on the head! Actually the worst head coach Blue had this century may have been Lloyd Carr in his last three years, but Brady was pretty terrible as well. At least Hoke left enough in the cupboard for Harbaugh to have a respectable first season while Lloyd pretty much turned over the program in ruins to Rich Rod.

It sounds great to hire an ex-alum or local guy to coach the MAC team doesn't it? Of course they will be engaged and less likely to leave upon success like Frank Solich. NOT! EMU hired Charles Ramsay(BB) and Jeff Genyk, two local guys who floundered. Toledo hired "Toledo Tom" Amstutz under the same pretense and the results were similar.

That being said I still would not throw Lester in the dumpster just yet. He seems to run a clean program and last season when WMU was failing, he found a way to beat the Conference Champion in his regular season game. If I were a betting man, I would have lost a fortune on that contest. No, he is not PJ, but he is not a turd either.

(10-21-2019 07:06 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(10-21-2019 06:04 PM)ElFanatico Wrote:  

(10-21-2019 05:44 PM)brovol Wrote:  Lester is a good man, but a guy who believes, like many of our resident experts here, that the football book of conventional wisdom should be followed, and we have achieved in three years exactly what that approach brings.

Those who support Lester still are the same who opposed Flecks approach, from the time he got here until he left, and who almost resented the fact that he won so big; after they knew he never would. It's a matter of general philosophy. Lester and his supporters share a philosophy on football. The question is, will our administration and the people who provide the $ for football agree with them. If so, what you see is what you will be getting.

It reminds me a TON of Michigan and Rich Rod's tenure. He brought a lot of excitement but had enormous hurdles from long term boosters and fans. The establishment never got on board with Rich, much the same way many of the stalwarts and older fans here didn't with RTB and all of the Fleckisms, yet the players loved it and the fans it brought in were into it. Michigan canned Rich Rod for slow progress just as the program was turning the corner (there's a reason Hoke went 11-2, before burying the prestige of that program. We were fortunate enough to see all that planting and fertilizing grow a program to its highest heights.

While we were able to see Western reach that level of success, both schools next coaching hires were entirely nepotistic hires of men who got the job largely due to their affiliation with the university. Neither Hoke nor Lester deserved their gigs.

Michigan was smart enough to pull the plug on that project after the 4th season. I'm fearful we won't be.

ElFanatico you nailed the U-M situation right on the head! Actually the worst head coach Blue had this century may have been Lloyd Carr in his last three years, but Brady was pretty terrible as well. At least Hoke left enough in the cupboard for Harbaugh to have a respectable first season while Lloyd pretty much turned over the program in ruins to Rich Rod.

It sounds great to hire an ex-alum or local guy to coach the MAC team doesn't it? Of course they will be engaged and less likely to leave upon success like Frank Solich. NOT! EMU hired Charles Ramsay(BB) and Jeff Genyk, two local guys who floundered. Toledo hired "Toledo Tom" Amstutz under the same pretense and the results were similar.

That being said I still would not throw Lester in the dumpster just yet. He seems to run a clean program and last season when WMU was failing, he found a way to beat the Conference Champion in his regular season game. If I were a betting man, I would have lost a fortune on that contest. No, he is not PJ, but he is not a turd either.

Point taken, but RichRod was the worst by far. He inherited a perennial 9-win team and blew it up. You donYou can't take a power running/power D team and expect them to run a spread running attack with no QB to run it and a nickle defense. He hired our wizard former defensive coordinator who sells videos about running a 4-3 and forced/talked him into to playing cornerbacks against Wisconsin TEs. UM could have hired Bill Cubit and Scott Shafer and UM would have won more games (By the way, Cubit actually has a higher win percentage coaching a Big 10 team than RichRod).

Fleck may appear to be self-absorbed, but he let his coaches coach and adjusted around players still on the roster. He didn't want the QB he inherited but invested in him and he turned out to be one of the best we've had. He inherited a team out of gas. RichRod was all about RichRod and now he has no job. Totally different situations.

Quote:Point taken, but RichRod was the worst by far.

I agree. Carr was hastily pushed out due to the App St loss -- but still ended up having a decent season (although UM fans back then Expected 10W+), and ended it with a very nice bowl win. Rich Rod came in -- and he ended up losing to Toledo having a sub-500 year!

(10-20-2019 08:31 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Donors need to be on the phone w/ KB now.

What did she say when you called her?

(10-21-2019 09:31 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  Fleck may appear to be self-absorbed, but he let his coaches coach and adjusted around players still on the roster. He didn't want the QB he inherited but invested in him and he turned out to be one of the best we've had. He inherited a team out of gas.

Lester inherited a team out of gas? Are you serious? We lost a senior QB and his primary receiver. That's the worst of it that Lester inherited. That team rolled into the Coliseum in front of 60k people and nothing about the first 52 minutes of that game would be described as running out of gas. We had an abundance of returning talent with full of energy that came to play.

You can say they were a team out of gas, but it sure has looked more like Timmy has let the remaining air out of the balloon.

I think he was talking about Fleck, and the QB he inherited Terrell.

(10-20-2019 07:31 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  Can’t blame Tim, he received a nice extension for winning 7 games, this is the standard our AD has set for him. Probably one of the lowest pressure jobs in D1.

Don't know about that. The five coaches before Fleck were all fired, two of them by Beauregard.

Would you all feel better if we had played two additional cream puffs instead of SU and MSU? We would likely be 6W and 2L now.

We were not favored at Toledo and history tells us that our odds in the glass bowl are not good. Eastern is a decent up and coming MAC team.

I see no bad losses for this team. It is very hard to win in college football. The other team does try at least a little to win as well. Get a grip on reality people.

(10-23-2019 06:25 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  I think he was talking about Fleck, and the QB he inherited Terrell.

Yes, sorry about that! Cubit ran out of gas at the end, that was a tough season, especially with Carder going down. Fleck inherited that, vs. RichRod getting a team in fighting shape that sent Tim Tebow home in a Florida bowl game.