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Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
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jedclampett Offline
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Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
This thread is intended as a place to discuss Temple Men's Basketball recruiting for the 2020 class.

There are lots of issues to discuss, but I'd like to start with an open question about the status of Josh Smith, a 6'7" SF/Wing out of Monrovia, Indiana.

Verbal commits has him listed as a 2.7 star recruit at present. He does have some offers, but was generally under the radar and only recently received his first 3 star ranking.

Temple is first in line for his services, apparently, and he has apparently scheduled two official visits to Temple. However, his first visit was postponed due to a minor leg injury. The last I've been able to find about him on Twitter is that he had scheduled an official visit for the first weekend in October.

But that date has come and gone, and nobody has said anything online about his visit to Temple since then.

Smith is a very versatile and skilled classic tall wing player. I for one would love to see him join the team.











If anyone has any info about Josh Smith's status as a Temple recruit, please share it. Thanks.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2019 08:11 PM by jedclampett.)
10-15-2019 02:52 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class (two remaining slots)
Still no news about Josh Smith, except a twitter post indicating that he is still recovering from a broken foot that he sustained this summer. Apparently, he played on that foot for a few weeks, and so the healing process will take a while longer.

Possibly, this is why he hasn't come for an official visit, since Coach McKie would prefer to be able to see him do a workout as part of the visit. I'm hoping that possibly, he will take an official visit before the deadline runs out in November.

Of course, another possibility is that he might make a commitment some time later, the way that JPL did.

If his foot does fully recover in time, there may be more videos of him in action during the basketball season.
10-17-2019 06:20 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class (two remaining slots)
There is a lot of current discussion on other boards about a 6'2" Uruguyan PG named Santiago Vescovi.

Apparently, Pepe Sanchez, former great TU PG, referred him to Temple.

He's gotten interest from some majors (Butler, Kansas, St. Mary's), but apparently hasn't made any official visits yet.

He did well in a global NBA camp with 150 other young recruits, and some say he's a 4 star, but he's only 3 star on Rivals.

I think it would be a big mistake to add yet another guard to the team for the 2020 class, especially one who is 6'2" in height.

Someone suggested that possibly a PG might be added because Strickland and JPL haven't impressed tremendously. If this is the case, then perhaps Temple really needs to add a PG - - but if we do, I'd like to see McKie wait until 2021, when we may need a PG. In 2020, Scott should do well at that position, presuming that Temple has a wing to replace Rose.

Alternatively, if McKie wants to play Scott and NPL at the wing/guard positions, perhaps adding a more capable PG could be the floor general (but a freshman PG in 2020?). Yes, that could be a good arrangement, except we wouldn't have a classic tall wing in the lineup other than Perry.

Other options for 2020 could be Scott-NPL-Dunn. With two PGs in the lineup to back Scott up (Strickland, JPL), I don't see any need to bring in a 2020 6'2" (on the short side) PG.

The Rivals 3 star rating also makes me less than enthusiastic about him.

Yes, I did consider signing Lynn Greer might make a bit of sense, with his deep roots at Temple and all, partly because his Dad was so incredible when he was an Owl. But LGIII plans to add a year of prep school, and whether he would be a spring commit for 2020 seems unlikely, although if he has a great HS season this year, he might get some enticing offers in the spring.

To me, what Temple most needs is to sign a classic, tall wing (a forward/wing or a 6'7" guard/wing like Rose). A guy who plays the wing position like a quick, muscular small forward and is able to battle for rebounds and hustle on defense would be perfect.

The other thing Temple needs, in my view, is a 6'9"+ big man who can play the Center position and contribute in 2020, since our only options at Center in 2020 would be Hamilton, 6'8" Parks, and 6'7" Moorman.

Moorman could play more minutes at the C position, due to the fact that Forrester and Perry will both be available at PF.

Maybe Coach McKie is ok with the idea of going with Hamilton, Parks, and Moorman at Center. Once we get a chance to see Parks in action, we'll have a better idea of his potential, but he's known for defense and rebounding, and may be a scoring liability; also is 6'8", short for Center.

The truth is that, come 2021-22, Temple will have no Center depth at all, other than Parks, and only one PF (Forrester). If that team has to rely on those two guys to handle the C and PF positions, perhaps backed up by a couple of 2021 freshmen recruits, the team might struggle mightily to finish above .500.

It's noteworthy that McKie worked really hard to bring in a PF for the 2020 class, and my guess is that he's still working hard on it, and may sign one in the spring if necessary. While the team has plenty of PFs in 2020-21, it will only have 1 current player (Forrester) at the position in 2021-22.

Since McKie hasn't put out offers to many Centers, I gather that his plan would be to go with PFs Parks and Forrester plus any new PFs that will be recruited. Have to admit that he might not see any benefit to having a Center in the lineup, given the state of the game today.

Anyway, with two openings, I am shocked that one could easily go to a 6'2" PG, when the team will have no tall wing player to replace Rose, and when what the team needs most is players 6'7" and above.

============

I welcome your thoughts.
10-17-2019 06:21 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
Verbal commits includes a statement that the following player has verbally committed to Temple.

At present, he is listed as a two-star recruit. However, such recruits are often upgraded to three stars after they sign with a high D1 school.

Quincy Ademokoya

PositionSF

Height6-5

This video shows some of his offensive play. Has a nice touch from 2 and 3 pt land, and capable driving to the basket and jamming.

Looks like the kind of player who could play combo guard or help fill in at the wing spot in the year after Rose's departure.

Video:



(This post was last modified: 10-17-2019 08:19 PM by jedclampett.)
10-17-2019 08:15 PM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class (two remaining slots)
I agree with your assessment of Temple’s most pressing recruiting needs.

It does appear that McKie is searching for a top-flight PG, and the PG from South America is his top priority, and I would suspect, that may well be motivated by the fact that hec doesn’t consider either JPL nor Strickland as his future starting PG.

Regardless, that’s my assessment.

In fact , I don’t think JPL is a PG at all. And frankly, I don’t what position he should play because he lacks a consistent jump shot. And I sense, that he see’s himself as a scorer, and is resisting an restriction being placed upon him.

He does possess extraordinary skills driving to the hoop, in transition, and defending, just like his brother does.

Do think that some fans are going to love his play. I’m anxious to see how this plays out.,

Do believe one or both incoming PGs may well consider leaving, if either one concludeb there is no path to becoming Temple’s starting PG in the future. But such is pure speculation on my part.

The coaching staff may also anticipate that might occur, and thus they will continue to look for a big and/or SF, even though there will be scholarships available if a new PG signs with Temple.

I’d rather let recruiting run it’s course, and wait till signings are complete, before engaging in a an in-depth discussion of Temple’s future needs.

I will add that regardless of whether Jake Forrester receives a waiver to play, he really needs a year to develop as a player.
(This post was last modified: 10-17-2019 08:33 PM by Miggy.)
10-17-2019 08:27 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-17-2019 08:27 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I agree with your assessment of Temple’s most pressing recruiting needs.

It does appear that McKie is searching for a top-flight PG, and the PG from South America is his top priority, and I would suspect, that may well be motivated by the fact that hec doesn’t consider either JPL nor Strickland as his future starting PG.

Regardless, that’s my assessment.

In fact , I don’t think JPL is a PG at all. And frankly, I don’t what position he should play because he lacks a consistent jump shot. And I sense, that he see’s himself as a scorer, and is resisting an restriction being placed upon him.

He does possess extraordinary skills driving to the hoop, in transition, and defending, just like his brother does.

Do think that some fans are going to love his play. I’m anxious to see how this plays out.,

Do believe one or both incoming PGs may well consider leaving, if either one concludeb there is no path to becoming Temple’s starting PG in the future. But such is pure speculation on my part.

The coaching staff may also anticipate that might occur, and thus they will continue to look for a big and/or SF, even though there will be scholarships available if a new PG signs with Temple.

I’d rather let recruiting run it’s course, and wait till signings are complete, before engaging in a an in-depth discussion of Temple’s future needs.

I will add that regardless of whether Jake Forrester receives a waiver to play, he really needs a year to develop as a player.


Yes, that was my reaction, too. I don't know if both will leave. McKie said in a recent interview that JPL has an incredible upside, so maybe he'll stick with him.

Also, it would be very difficult for the family and for Nate if JPL were to depart.

Thus, maybe Strickland will have to play really well in practice to stay on. It's hard enough to transfer once, much worse to have to transfer twice.

What bugs me is that we don't even need a PG in 2020. There will be good PGs available in 2021, and Scott can handle PG in 2020. But I'm not the Coach, so, whatever...

=============

I don't know if a 6'5" wing (Quincy A.), or Dunn, or White is going to be able to play the wing as effectively as a taller wing can.

But, regardless, that is what McKie has recruited, a bunch of 6'5" SG/wings. It may work out, perhaps by having enough of them on the roster that Temple's wings can overwhelm the opposition.

I have to admit that I've been more a fan of the half-court game with occasional fast breaks off a tight defense, but maybe once I adjust to McKie's high tempo approach, I will learn to enjoy it.

Time will tell...
10-18-2019 05:47 AM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-18-2019 05:47 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-17-2019 08:27 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I agree with your assessment of Temple’s most pressing recruiting needs.

It does appear that McKie is searching for a top-flight PG, and the PG from South America is his top priority, and I would suspect, that may well be motivated by the fact that hec doesn’t consider either JPL nor Strickland as his future starting PG.

Regardless, that’s my assessment.

In fact , I don’t think JPL is a PG at all. And frankly, I don’t what position he should play because he lacks a consistent jump shot. And I sense, that he see’s himself as a scorer, and is resisting an restriction being placed upon him.

He does possess extraordinary skills driving to the hoop, in transition, and defending, just like his brother does.

Do think that some fans are going to love his play. I’m anxious to see how this plays out.,

Do believe one or both incoming PGs may well consider leaving, if either one concludeb there is no path to becoming Temple’s starting PG in the future. But such is pure speculation on my part.

The coaching staff may also anticipate that might occur, and thus they will continue to look for a big and/or SF, even though there will be scholarships available if a new PG signs with Temple.

I’d rather let recruiting run it’s course, and wait till signings are complete, before engaging in a an in-depth discussion of Temple’s future needs.

I will add that regardless of whether Jake Forrester receives a waiver to play, he really needs a year to develop as a player.


Yes, that was my reaction, too. I don't know if both will leave. McKie said in a recent interview that JPL has an incredible upside, so maybe he'll stick with him.

Also, it would be very difficult for the family and for Nate if JPL were to depart.

Thus, maybe Strickland will have to play really well in practice to stay on. It's hard enough to transfer once, much worse to have to transfer twice.

What bugs me is that we don't even need a PG in 2020. There will be good PGs available in 2021, and Scott can handle PG in 2020. But I'm not the Coach, so, whatever...

=============

I don't know if a 6'5" wing (Quincy A.), or Dunn, or White is going to be able to play the wing as effectively as a taller wing can.

But, regardless, that is what McKie has recruited, a bunch of 6'5" SG/wings. It may work out, perhaps by having enough of them on the roster that Temple's wings can overwhelm the opposition.

I have to admit that I've been more a fan of the half-court game with occasional fast breaks off a tight defense, but maybe once I adjust to McKie's high tempo approach, I will learn to enjoy it.

Time will tell...

Strickland may see himself as a backup.

If JPL doesn’t see himself as a starter, he will leave.

In today’s game, Temple needs tall wings to defend the three-ball, and rebound. That’s why Perry, Moorman-to a lesser extent, and White, who may be 6’7 when he arrives on campus, meet a significant need.

Even though Dunn not as tall as Rose, Dunn loves rebounding. And he’s so smart and plays with energy, think he’ll protect the wing as well.

Temple will still most play half-court sets. But the same plays basically will be run at a quicker temp0 as studies show shooting quicker in half-court sets improves scoring

Problem I saw at scrimmage is too many turnovers. Couldn’t decide if that do to bad decision-making or players not running offense correctly.

When players ran offense with no dense, it looked great. When defsive players came -in it seemed like certain players forgot what they just practiced.

My two biggest fears are Temple losing the advantage have in committing fewer turnovers than opponents,and Rose and Nate Nate shooting too much when shots not falling. But those hopefully are controllable..
10-18-2019 06:56 AM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-18-2019 05:47 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-17-2019 08:27 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I agree with your assessment of Temple’s most pressing recruiting needs.

It does appear that McKie is searching for a top-flight PG, and the PG from South America is his top priority, and I would suspect, that may well be motivated by the fact that hec doesn’t consider either JPL nor Strickland as his future starting PG.

Regardless, that’s my assessment.

In fact, I don’t think JPL is a PG at all. And frankly, I don’t what position he should play because he lacks a consistent jump shot. And I sense, that he see’s himself as a scorer, and is resisting an restriction being placed upon him.

He does possess extraordinary skills driving to the hoop, in transition, and defending, just like his brother does.

Do think that some fans are going to love his play. I’m anxious to see how this plays out.,

Do believe one or both incoming PGs may well consider leaving, if either one concludeb there is no path to becoming Temple’s starting PG in the future. But such is pure speculation on my part.

The coaching staff may also anticipate that might occur, and thus they will continue to look for a big and/or SF, even though there will be scholarships available if a new PG signs with Temple.

I’d rather let recruiting run it’s course, and wait till signings are complete, before engaging in a an in-depth discussion of Temple’s future needs.

I will add that regardless of whether Jake Forrester receives a waiver to play, he really needs a year to develop as a player.


Yes, that was my reaction, too. I don't know if both will leave. McKie said in a recent interview that JPL has an incredible upside, so maybe he'll stick with him.

Also, it would be very difficult for the family and for Nate if JPL were to depart.

Thus, maybe Strickland will have to play really well in practice to stay on. It's hard enough to transfer once, much worse to have to transfer twice.

What bugs me is that we don't even need a PG in 2020. There will be good PGs available in 2021, and Scott can handle PG in 2020. But I'm not the Coach, so, whatever...

=============

I don't know if a 6'5" wing (Quincy A.), or Dunn, or White is going to be able to play the wing as effectively as a taller wing can.

But, regardless, that is what McKie has recruited, a bunch of 6'5" SG/wings. It may work out, perhaps by having enough of them on the roster that Temple's wings can overwhelm the opposition.

I have to admit that I've been more a fan of the half-court game with occasional fast breaks off a tight defense, but maybe once I adjust to McKie's high tempo approach, I will learn to enjoy it.

Time will tell...

Strickland may see himself as a backup.

If JPL doesn’t see himself as a starter, he will leave.

In today’s game, Temple needs tall wings to defend the three-ball, and rebound. That’s why Perry, Moorman-to a lesser extent, and White, who may be 6’7 when he arrives on campus, meet a significant need.

Even though Dunn not as tall as Rose, Dunn loves rebounding. And he’s so smart and plays with energy, think he’ll protect the wing as well.

Don’t think you’ll be disappointed. Temple will still most play half-court sets. But the same plays basically will be run at a quicker temp0 as studies show shooting quicker in half-court sets improves scoring

Faster pace is made for this team. Will expose other team’s weaknesses. Very courageous out-of-the-box move by Mckie. Will attract a ton of recruits and fans to the game.
Problem I saw at scrimmage is too many turnovers. Couldn’t decide if that do to bad decision-making or players not running offense correctly.

When players ran offense with no defensive players on the court, it looked great. When players came -in to defend, it seemed like certain players forgot what they just practiced.

My two biggest fears are Temple losing the advantage have in committing fewer turnovers than opponents,and Rose and Nate Nate shooting too much when shots not falling. But those hopefully are controllable..
(This post was last modified: 10-18-2019 07:04 AM by Miggy.)
10-18-2019 06:57 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
I don’t think JPL is a PG at all. And frankly, I don’t what position he should play because he lacks a consistent jump shot. And I sense, that he see’s himself as a scorer, and is resisting an restriction being placed upon him.

He does possess extraordinary skills driving to the hoop, in transition, and defending, just like his brother does.

Do think that some fans are going to love his play. I’m anxious to see how this plays out.
[/quote]

I have similar questions about JPL. Any guard who lacks a consistent jump shot can't be a high D1 starter, but only a role player who plays limited minutes. If he is determined to become a starter, then he'll either have to develop a good jump shooting ability or transfer out at some point.

There's also the fact that his overall skill level seems to have some important gaps, and etc.

On the other hand, he's Nate's brother, and it may be a challenge to be in that situation, especially because his style of play is perhaps most similar to Nate's. If he's going to stay on the team, it may be as Nate's "understudy" for this and next season.

That may be the most likely scenario, if JPL is willing to wait until his Junior year for a chance to compete with the other guards for a starting position. Perhaps he could develop a good jump shot by then. But if his patience doesn't permit, maybe he would be better off redshirting this season and transferring out in the spring, or just play limited minutes this season.

I definitely don't see him playing as a classic/tall wing spot. He'd either be a SG, CG, or possibly a CG/PG, if his PG skills evolve.

Gotta wish the young man good luck in all this.
10-18-2019 08:45 PM
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
Problem I saw at scrimmage is too many turnovers. Couldn’t decide if that do to bad decision-making or players not running offense correctly.

When players ran offense with no defensive players on the court, it looked great. When players came -in to defend, it seemed like certain players forgot what they just practiced.

My two biggest fears are Temple losing the advantage have in committing fewer turnovers than opponents,and Rose and Nate Nate shooting too much when shots not falling. But those hopefully are controllable..
[/quote]


Good observations - thanks.

You know, I hope that Coach McKie doesn't make a mistake by trying to force a new offensive approach on the team prematurely.

The kinds of observations you posted make me a bit concerned that they can practice it, but might tend to revert to their previous style of play in crunch time.

The issue is that a team can adjust to a new HC, and a team can adjust to a new style of play, but to change both the HC and the style of play overnight might be asking a bit too much.

Not only is it hard to change styles, but if the new style is going to be at a much faster tempo, the bench is going to have to deep and talented enough to play more minutes.

How good is the bench without Dunn? I would rate them about a "B" bench at this point, not quite a B+. Alani and Perry were B players last season, Perry because he was injured. Hamilton may be a "A" scorer, but he's a "B-" rebounder and average defender (give him a B+). Parks is new and not known as having an offensive game. JPL seems not ready to play much at this point. Add the numbers up, B, B+, B-, no "A" players on the bench.

Bench minutes played last season: 40-60 mpg, average ~ 50 mpg.

Bench minutes played this season: Same range, until Dunn returns.

When Dunn returns, the bench may play up to 65 or 70 mpg.

Is that enough bench minutes to sustain a high tempo game? Unlikely.

============

Could McKie try playing a high tempo offense with starters on the floor for 30-30 mpg?

He can try it, but the starters will get tired in the second half, and the bench without Dunn isn't skilled enough to win enough of those games.

When Dunn returns, the bench quality will move to the B+ level, and McKie could rely on his bench to play enough minutes to keep the starters fresh throughout the second half at a faster tempo.

So, the concern is that the team may lose too many OOC games playing at a higher tempo without Dunn in the rotation. They probably have to go 9-4 or better in the OOC schedule, and can't afford sloppy play, confusion or turnovers.

=============

Faster play will mean more turnovers - no doubt about it.

You said that this is out-of-the-box, courageous approach. In fact, it could be too risky to be successful in the HC's first season.

This could be the kind of "rookie mistake" that a lot of first year HCs are known to make.

If I could advise the HC, I would suggest this: Prepare the team to play offense at a fast or slow tempo, not only at high tempo.

In fact, the team has to play slow tempo at times, when it's trying to run the full shot clock. When the team has reserves on the court with fewer offensive skills, it can make more sense to use more of the shot clock. Otherwise, opponents can go off on scoring runs in a high tempo game with our starters on the bench.

Besides, practicing the slower tempo offense can give the team the option of settling itself down if they're not executing high tempo offense effectively or missing a lot of shots.

Another reason to have the ability to play a slower half court offense is that (a) some opponents will be at a disadvantage if Temple slows the game down, and (b) it is an advantage to show "different looks" during the course of a game. If Temple always shows the same look on offense, opposing Coaches will get a better chance to make effective adjustments.

==============

With the season starting in 3 weeks, Coach McKie is going to have to make a strategic decision very soon. He's got to ask himself:

Is the offense executing well enough to play this high speed offense at this point?

If so, how much of the game can they play at this pace, and can the bench guys also play well at this pace?

Would it be best to prepare the team to execute both a high tempo offense and a medium tempo motion offense that the returning players know how to execute effectively?

If not, is this the right time to introduce the high tempo offense, or would it be better to hold off and introduce it in a few weeks, around the time when Dunn is able to play?

============

Failing to sort these things out could be disastrous if the team simply can't execute well enough at a high tempo. Losing some winnable games early on may force the HC to go back to a more standard tempo style of play, at least until Dunn returns and the guys learn to play the high tempo offense more effectively. Otherwise, the team could go 6-7 in the OOC schedule and disqualify themselves from the NCAA before the conference schedule even begins.
10-18-2019 09:23 PM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
Temple will still play mostly half-court sets. The up- tempo you’ll see will be quick ball movement in the concept of an early offense. Nice to watch ball being passed from one side of the court to the other side. Sets are the same but run quicker. In open scrimmage, ball stalled with Rose at times, but not often.

Team will try to get defensive rebound, and push it to the front court quickly so defenses do not set up.,l That’s smart bb. Hope days of walking the ball up slowly are over.,

I’ve always considered fast breaks as energy savers. Fewer guys expending energy for shorter periods of time. . Players agree.

Defensive players also exert less energy for shorter periods of time by pressuring the ball, and speeding opponents up. Better than running around for over thirty seconds guarding a slow offense.

Temple bench is deep and has many interchangeable parts.

Fast break run by JPL and Rose was too frenetic at times, which reduces the options of the player leading the fast break, Results in unforced turnovers.

Players have to be told that the offense has a huge advantage on virtually every fast break, and to take their time as defensive players are scurrying back in transition.

Need to run controlled fast break. By running under control, player with ball has the option to change direction, pass the ball, drive to hoop. Going flat-out limits the options availed on a fast break.

Sometimes players have never been told that.

So you see out of control fast breaks all the time. JapL runs the fast break way too fast. That’s his HS Roselle Catholic runs fastbreaks. As such they always turned told le ball over a lot.

I asked one of Dr.J’s son’s to ask his dad if he ever ran full speed. Replied back, “never.”

The offense is the same as last year. Just speeded up. It’s my view, l that certain players lack of Lola high bb IQ that results in turnovers.,Hope that straightened out before season starts. We’ll see.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2019 11:41 AM by Miggy.)
10-19-2019 05:03 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-19-2019 05:03 AM)Miggy Wrote:  Temple will still play mostly half-court sets. The up- tempo you’ll see will be quick ball movement in the concept of an early offense. Nice to watch ball being passed from one side of the court to the other side. Sets are the same but run quicker. In open scrimmage, ball stalled with Rose at times, but not often.

Team will try to get defensive rebound, and push it to the front court quickly so defenses do not set up.,l That’s smart bb. Hope days of walking the ball up slowly are over.

That's a helpful description.

The style you're describing certainly makes plenty of sense to me with the current personnel.

So the high tempo is mainly moving the ball more quickly toward the beginning of a possession, not walking the ball up court very often, but still going into a half court offense most of the time.

The method of ball movement is the tricky part. Some Temple PGs have brought the ball up court at various paces, not too quickly, and sort of gotten stuck with the ball top of the key area, being harried by defenders, and at times finding it hard to pass the ball or get into the motion offense. Alston was better than most, but even he rarely modified what he did early in the shot clock. That is, he gave the same look almost every time down the floor, except that sometimes the guards got into a kind of weave/motion that created open shots.

So I'm wondering what it's going to look like - - will they alternate between quick passing for open perimeter shots and frequent drives to the hoop, or interior passing, give and go plays, backdoor passes, screens?

Since they are still trying to adjust to the newer style of play, and season starts soon, my guess is that they will continue to practice the new style, but may end up playing what they're most familiar with - the motion offense from last year, but a bit faster toward beginning of shot clock and stronger emphasis on defensive rebounding leading to fast breaks. Whether it's in sports or in stage performances, you can "get an old dog to do new tricks," but the default in the spur of the moment is to revert to what's tried and true.

================

As you pointed out, defensive rebounds would play a major role in the offensive scheme. But how to become better at getting those rebounds?

Since Moorman plays better D near the basket and isn't super-quick, maybe it would make sense for him to be stationed near the basket on defense when Damion Moore isn't in the game.

I rarely saw Justyn move very far from the basket on the defensive end, except up to the FT line area, and wonder if he might be better or worse as a defender if he switched from the C to the PF position on defense with Moorman handling the C position - - or how the two of them might do playing D on both sides of the low post area.

But if those two players are weak on defense when both on the floor together, then I honestly think McKie will have to switch to some kind of match-up zone defense, such as a 3-2 zone, with the outer 3 guys matching up with a guard/wing and the 2 inner guys playing in the zones extending out each side of the basket. Another version of the 3-2 zone is a 3-1-1 zone, with a guy near the basket and the other big guy playing a bit farther out from the basket (sort of like a cornerback and a safety).
10-19-2019 11:01 PM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
Temple’s interior defense very strong in the first and third games against good teams in the Bahamas. D.Moore and Hamilton playing in limited minutes rebounded very well in the ..
Bahamas. from Temple’s win over Georgetown indicates that Temle did not play well defending the interior or Failed to rebound on the boards.Wait till you see Temple play and then comment on Temple’s interior defense or rebounding.


Playing defense, Hamilton went to three-point line many times.
10-22-2019 09:41 PM
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-22-2019 09:41 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Temple’s interior defense very strong in the first and third games against good teams in the Bahamas. D.Moore and Hamilton playing in limited minutes rebounded very well in the ..
Bahamas. from Temple’s win over Georgetown indicates that Temle did not play well defending the interior or Failed to rebound on the boards.Wait till you see Temple play and then comment on Temple’s interior defense or rebounding.

You know, I never thought that guys like Damion Moore and Justyn coudn't defend or rebound, so it wouldn't surprise me much if they could. I don't think FD got much more than 50% of their potential out of them.

When LGIII commented about Temple, he mentioned that the "vibe" is much better at Temple under McKie than it had been before McKie took the HC position.

That confirmed, in my mind, that there were some negative "vibes" going on at Temple before HC McKie took over the reins. I believe that Damion was running scared of the prior HC, and felt that HC treated him in a demeaning way by ignominiously yanking him the second after he made the tiniest mistake. Not so much with Hamilton, but he dissed Hamilton by not playing him his entire freshman year and didn't give him a chance to develop on the court or the first 10 games of last season. That kind of thing builds resentment in a player and restrains his development.

I've seen Damion totally dominate the low post area on both ends, in a game against South Carolina, and I see no reason why Justyn couldn't rebound and defend.

Maybe all they need(ed) was a HC who treated them with more respect, and McKie is the kind of guy with a sense of humility who respects his players and does his best to help them develop as players.

Also thought the prior coach was demoralized at times and didn't have the same energy that he once had. In contrast, McKie is pretty upbeat and very dedicated, and energetic.
10-23-2019 01:48 AM
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
Back to the topic of recruiting, I'm getting worried that Temple isn't going to sign a big man until the 2021 class. Hopefully, at least they'll add another PF, or two bigs for the 2021 class.

Otherwise, Temple would end up playing essentially a 4 guard/wing lineup most of the time, with only two 6'8" players.

Very few teams can have success without a 6'9"+ player or two.

Encouragingly, McKie did try to recruit a slew of PFs, but struck out on all of them. At this point, he must have his eyes "peeled" to bring another big man aboard by 2021, if not 2020.
10-23-2019 01:53 AM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
An odd thing about rebounding last year, Temple had only 9 less offensive rebounds than opponents did last season in non️-conference games, and a larger gap in conference games. Still maintain if bigs don’t stray far from rim as they did last season , interior defense and rebounding will be much improved..

With regard to D.Moore, it’s Norb good to engage in conjecture about a player based on “vibes.”

Agree that most players in their third year of playing college ball would not be pleased to play only 10 minutes per game. Sure, D.Moore wished he played more, but knowing him, I can tell you that he is a very upbeat, positive person, who doesn’t harbor any resentment toward anyone.

As for recruiting, Temple still wants to get a big for next year. No need to speculate where that scholarship will appear from. As good coaches, they’re trying to have options for any eventuality.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 04:48 AM by Miggy.)
10-23-2019 04:41 AM
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-23-2019 04:41 AM)Miggy Wrote:  An odd thing about rebounding last year, Temple had only 9 less offensive rebounds than opponents did last season in non️-conference games, and a larger gap in conference games. Still maintain if bigs don’t stray far from rim as they did last season , interior defense and rebounding will be much improved..

As for recruiting, Temple still wants to get a big for next year. No need to speculate where that scholarship will appear from. As good coaches, they’re trying to have options for any eventuality.

Yes, it did seem that the rebounding gap wasn't so apparent before conference play started. The one factor that I can identify is the change in PT in the amount of playing time among the Centers.

Hamilton, who averaged only ~3 rebounds per 20 minutes of play last season, played 5.6 mpg in non-conference games, but ~ tripled his PT to 16.4 mpg during conference play. The PT of the other Centers (Ern & D Moore), who averaged ~ twice as many rebounds per 20 minutes, decreased by 10 mpg during conference play, due in part to injuries. Thus, the decline in rebounding during conference play was at least partly (over 40%, or -2 rebounds per 40 minutes deficit ) attributable to Hamilton's low rebounding rate multiplied by the threefold increase of his playing time from non-conference to conference play.

A high D1 Center usually averages 10+ rebounds per game, but Hamilton only averaged 5.6 rebounds per game. Thus, Hamilton's rebounding was almost 50% below average for a high D1 Center (i.e., a deficit of 5 rebounds per 40 minutes of action). That is a huge rebounding deficit - - all by himself, for every 40 minutes that he played, he accounted for about half of Temple's overall rebounding deficit.

Also noteworthy is the fact that the two PFs (Perry, Moorman) only averaged about 3.5 rebounds per 20 minutes of play (7 per 40 mpg). High D1 PFs are usually able to average ~10+ rebounds per 40 minutes. So Temple's rebounding deficit for the season was also largely due to the mediocre rebounding by the PFs.

Temple needs to get at least 20 rebounds per 40 minutes (per game), from its PFs & Centers in order to erase its rebounding deficit.

If our current PFs and Centers play the way they did last year, they will only average ~14 rebounds per game, which would cause the team to have a PF/C rebounding deficit of ~6 rebounds per game against high D1 teams.

After factoring in back court rebounding, the rebounding deficit would be likely to be ~ the same as or worse than it was last season, unless the PFs and Centers become much better rebounders.
10-23-2019 06:48 PM
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
As you have pointed out, Temple was able to win as many games as it did due to superior ball control, causing turnovers, etc. These were largely attributable to Temple's back court.

So, to a large extent, Temple's back court ball control and defense generated more ball possessions, despite the ~5 rebound per game deficit.

Due to superior 3 point shooting, the possesson surplus - net of the rebounding deficit - allowed Temple to have a relatively modest net scoring surplus of 3.2 ppg last season.

If there were no rebounding deficit, Temple would have won their games by a surplus of ~8 ppg last season. This, no doubt, would have translated into as many as 26+ regular season wins.
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2019 06:58 PM by jedclampett.)
10-23-2019 06:57 PM
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Miggy Offline
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
I think you’re looking at Temple’s rebounding deficit for the season in the wrong way.

For the season, Temple took 101 more field goal attempts, and shot them at a lower percentage than opinents did, and therefore only made 22 more baskets than opponents did.

As a result, Temple opponents garnered 77 more defensive rebounds than Temple did. That seems like normal rebounding to me. That to be expected given how many more fga’s Temple took.

A more valid argument is that Temple should not have had nine less offensive rebound for the season because Temple took and missed more shots.
10-24-2019 01:09 PM
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RE: Temple MBB recruiting: 2020 class
(10-24-2019 01:09 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I think you’re looking at Temple’s rebounding deficit for the season in the wrong way.

For the season, Temple took 101 more field goal attempts, and shot them at a lower percentage than opinents did, and therefore only made 22 more baskets than opponents did.

As a result, Temple opponents garnered 77 more defensive rebounds than Temple did.

Clampett: the -77 deficit = -2.41 defensive rebounds per game.

That seems like normal rebounding to me.

Clampett: actually well below average (#196th in the nation).

That to be expected given how many more fga’s Temple took.

Clampett: Temple's FG% was also low (#215th in the nation).

A more valid argument is that Temple should not have had nine less offensive rebound for the season because Temple took and missed more shots.

Clampett: Temple's off. rebounding was (#196th in the nation).


I HOPE YOU'LL READ THE FOLLOWING, BECAUSE YOU WILL FIND THESE NUMBERS VERY INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE.

BUT NOT TO WORRY, BECAUSE I STILL THINK THAT WITH SOME WORK ON REBOUNDING BY THE COACHES, TEMPLE MIGHT BE ABLE TO BATTLE FOR 3RD PLACE THIS SEASON.

FOR YOUR SAKE AND MINE, I HOPE COACH MCKIE "LIGHTS A BONFIRE" UNDER HIS PLAYERS WITH RESPECT TO REBOUNDING.


I've done a careful study, including many computations of Temple's rebounding data from last season, as reported here:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch.../2019.html

I INVITE YOU TO CHECK SOME OF THESE COMPUTATIONS, USING A CALCULATOR, IF YOU'RE IN ANY DOUBT ABOUT THEM.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Temple's defensive rebounding deficit was extremely poor when one considers the fact that Temple's opponents were ranked an abysmal #306 in the nation.

In other words, with respect to defensive rebounding, Temple was out-rebounded by opponents with an average rank of 306th in the nation - - one of the least effective sets of rebounding opponents in the country, as a whole.

Temple's offensive rebounding ranking was also below average (#196 in the nation), and Temple was out-rebounded opponents with below-average (#188th ranked) offensive rebounding statistics. Their lack of offensive rebounding prowess was most problematic in games vs. better-rebounding teams, becoming a major problem in AAC games, with Temple was tied for 11th (last) place in offensive rebounds.


The rebounding data for the season as a whole is not representative of the way Temple's rebounding during conference play, due to playing a number of very poor rebounding teams during conference play.
Temple's opponents for the season as a whole (on average) were ranked an extremely low #283 among D1 teams.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sch.../2019.html

Temple's poor rebounding didn't become an extreme problem until conference play, with Temple lagging their conference opponents by -61 (-3.38 offensive rebounds per game) and -42 (-2.33 defensive rebounds

In other words, Temple was out-rebounded by a huge margin (-5.7 rebounds per game) by one of the very least effective (rebounding) sets of opponents in the AAC conference .

This rebounding deficit was particularly abysmal when one considers that Temple's conference opponents as a whole were ranked near the bottom (opponents were ranked #11th in the conference out of 12 teams).

From that standpoint, it wouldn't come as a surprise that Temple was tied for 11th place, and thus one of the two least effective rebounding teams in the conference.
10-25-2019 02:01 AM
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