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As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #21
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 12:33 AM)ShilohTiger Wrote:  And to keep the Auburn comments Tiger related.

It's funny how similar Malzahn and Norvell are....I believe Malzahn hired former Memphis OC Kenning Dillingham because he can't line up and go toe to toe with the Defensive lines of Alabama/LSU/Georgia.
Dillingham's value is watching how the defense reacts to formations, early play calls, RPOs, and then trying to beat them with with jet sweeps, reverses, gimmicks, reads, etc. Auburn also just lost their bruising running back Whitlow to 4-6 weeks to a lower leg injury. (sound familiar?)

Malzahn is playing Nix for the long haul. Nix will better next year, and theoretically the year after that if Malzahn can hang on to his job. Nix won't win the SEC West on the strength of his arm or accuracy but at least he does have some mobility. And hopefully with maturity and experience Nix will increase his accuracy and make less mistakes.
Part of me thinks Norvell is expecting BW to take similar lumps, make mistakes, and continue trusting BW no matter what hoping these trials by fire will make him better by the end of the season and next year.

But that's what's funny about fans. Nix was GARBAGE the entire Oregon game except for the last drive and the lucky as hell pass that won the game.

That ball falls incomplete or is intercepted (if not woefully under thrown) and it's completely different. People then forgot the 1st 59 minutes of the game and are cool with him.

Brady is judged in the reverse. He's presumed to be bad and can only get out of that hole by being absolutely spectacular. And that is a nearly impossible ask.
10-15-2019 10:50 AM
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oruvoice2 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
One other observation...without Gainwell our season is over.

Despite all of the kudos Norvell gets for recruiting (and much of it is justified), we don't have anyone else on the offensive side of the ball that is a difference maker. We've got some solid guys, but no game breakers.

We really, really need PT back.
10-15-2019 10:59 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #23
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 10:37 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(10-14-2019 11:01 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Bo Nix is trash.

I watched the PSU/Iowa game and saw two top 25 P5 teams that I wouldn't trade Brady for.

And I watched UTk and MSU. Again, QB's that I wouldn't want.

From P5 schools.

Brady literally gets judged on EVERY pass he makes or misses. I get that int vs. Temple was HORRIBLE. But few QB's right now get judged so harshly as Brady does (by of all fan bases) Memphis.

Agree there are truly bad qb's in P5. And I agree with all of your examples.
At the same time, there are good qb's in G5 (we've seen a couple).

The problem I have with BW is that he's no longer protecting the ball. He didn't make the physical progress this summer that I had hoped. And now he's trying to make plays that he can't.

I can take the weak arm - as long as he puts the ball where it should be. I can take the slow running - as long as he makes the right reads. But I can't take how he crumbles with one hand on him in the backfield. And I sure can't take the fumbles.

He is credited with 22 carries on the year. Of course, some of those are sacks. So his rushing yardage is -42 yards. His long rush of the year is 8 yards. That is pathetic. But I can accept it because we have so many other true playmakers.

But on those 22 carries, he has fumbled 5 times. 25% of the time he gets tackled with the ball, he coughs it up. That is crazy! And unacceptable! And we haven't even had a rain game yet.

You can't have your qb fumbling once a game. He can turn it around, but it has to start this weekend.

When a qb gets blindsided, he fumbles quite often. Brady was smashed vs. Temple and Navy. Memphis' defense has knocked the ball loose a few times this year after teeing off on a QB.

The RPO fumble was unfortunate, but it happens to every team who does the RPO. Brady atoned for that later by pulling a handoff later in the game and hitting the TE for a TD.

The interception was inexcusable--especially coming from an upperclassman.

Brady had a really nice throw down the field (right before the fumble) and got the ball to his receivers.

What Memphis also lacks are receivers who get 95% of the balls thrown in their area.

That tall dude from Temple damn near caught everything that came his way. Jump balls, low liners, double coverage--you name it when the ball was near him he was catching the ball.

We don't have that receiver. Coxie is reliable but doesn't make the QB "look good" like that guy from Temple (or that SMU receiver that made that insane catch in OT vs. Tulsa) or like Miller used to do.

You rarely see great QB's without great receivers.
10-15-2019 11:00 AM
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macgar32 Online
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Post: #24
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 10:59 AM)oruvoice2 Wrote:  One other observation...without Gainwell our season is over.

Despite all of the kudos Norvell gets for recruiting (and much of it is justified), we don't have anyone else on the offensive side of the ball that is a difference maker. We've got some solid guys, but no game breakers.

We really, really need PT back.

Gainwell is important and is dynamic...

But Watkins has performed well also but he tends to go down easily (175lbs).

Every year Norvell has been here our primary back has averaged over 6 yards a carry.

2016 Dorceus 6.1 from 4.3 under Fuente
2017 Henderson 8.5 + Taylor 5.5
2018 Henderson 8.9 + Taylor 5.4 + Pollard 7.1
2019 Gainwell 7.6 + Watkins 6.3

We gotta give Norvell some credit for these results. One thing that is definitely premier in Norvells offense is the effort receivers put out blocking down field which leads to long runs.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 12:01 PM by macgar32.)
10-15-2019 12:01 PM
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jgardne Online
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Post: #25
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
Y’all are overthinking it. Brady White isn’t good. We’re out scheming or out-talenting people and he’s getting tons of easy yards that way. When he has to make something happen, he can’t. And often he turns it over too. If a team gets any pressure on him the play is over. He cannot escape the pocket or make plays under pressure.

He is criticized routinely because most of us can see that he’s making screen passes that I could make and then feasting on YAC and isn’t making any tough plays. He occasionally makes a good downfield throw because even the sun shines on a dog’s a$$ some days.

Y’all can clutch your pearls and try to hype him but he is what he is: a below average qb working in a good scheme with a surrounding team that’s better than the opponents they’ve played so far.
10-15-2019 02:33 PM
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RekeHavoc Offline
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Post: #26
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
BW is the Josh Pastner of Memphis football. He's gonna put up gaudy stats, but just can't seem to win the big one.
10-15-2019 02:38 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 10:59 AM)oruvoice2 Wrote:  One other observation...without Gainwell our season is over.

Despite all of the kudos Norvell gets for recruiting (and much of it is justified), we don't have anyone else on the offensive side of the ball that is a difference maker. We've got some solid guys, but no game breakers.

We really, really need PT back.

Well, we did lose Pop and Big Pat early this year. Those guys are difference makers. I mean, it's hard to criticize depth at the G5 level when we've had the success with skill guys we've seen over the last 4 years.

Agree we need PT back.
10-15-2019 04:07 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 11:00 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(10-15-2019 10:37 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  The problem I have with BW is that he's no longer protecting the ball. He didn't make the physical progress this summer that I had hoped. And now he's trying to make plays that he can't.

I can take the weak arm - as long as he puts the ball where it should be. I can take the slow running - as long as he makes the right reads. But I can't take how he crumbles with one hand on him in the backfield. And I sure can't take the fumbles.

He is credited with 22 carries on the year. Of course, some of those are sacks. So his rushing yardage is -42 yards. His long rush of the year is 8 yards. That is pathetic. But I can accept it because we have so many other true playmakers.

But on those 22 carries, he has fumbled 5 times. 25% of the time he gets tackled with the ball, he coughs it up. That is crazy! And unacceptable! And we haven't even had a rain game yet.

You can't have your qb fumbling once a game. He can turn it around, but it has to start this weekend.

When a qb gets blindsided, he fumbles quite often. Brady was smashed vs. Temple and Navy. Memphis' defense has knocked the ball loose a few times this year after teeing off on a QB.

The RPO fumble was unfortunate, but it happens to every team who does the RPO. Brady atoned for that later by pulling a handoff later in the game and hitting the TE for a TD.

The interception was inexcusable--especially coming from an upperclassman.

Brady had a really nice throw down the field (right before the fumble) and got the ball to his receivers.

What Memphis also lacks are receivers who get 95% of the balls thrown in their area.

That tall dude from Temple damn near caught everything that came his way. Jump balls, low liners, double coverage--you name it when the ball was near him he was catching the ball.

We don't have that receiver. Coxie is reliable but doesn't make the QB "look good" like that guy from Temple (or that SMU receiver that made that insane catch in OT vs. Tulsa) or like Miller used to do.

You rarely see great QB's without great receivers.

Fun fact. The RPO fumbled exchange in the Temple game was not one of BW's 5 fumbles on the year. He didn't get charged with that one.

I agree with most of what you're saying. We need another WR (maybe we're back to using Joey). The OL is bad with pass protection. 5 and 6 guys having trouble blocking 4. I'm afraid DC's have dialed in our zone blocking.

But 5 fumbles from your QB (a 25% fumble rate) is not acceptable, no matter how you dissect the other factors.
(This post was last modified: 10-15-2019 04:14 PM by Tiger87.)
10-15-2019 04:13 PM
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oruvoice2 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 04:07 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  
(10-15-2019 10:59 AM)oruvoice2 Wrote:  One other observation...without Gainwell our season is over.

Despite all of the kudos Norvell gets for recruiting (and much of it is justified), we don't have anyone else on the offensive side of the ball that is a difference maker. We've got some solid guys, but no game breakers.

We really, really need PT back.

Well, we did lose Pop and Big Pat early this year. Those guys are difference makers. I mean, it's hard to criticize depth at the G5 level when we've had the success with skill guys we've seen over the last 4 years.

Agree we need PT back.

Yeah. I may be a little too critical. Have had some tough injuries at key positions.
10-15-2019 04:26 PM
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Pastnerized Offline
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Post: #30
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 01:30 AM)Stammers Wrote:  
(10-14-2019 11:01 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(10-14-2019 10:11 PM)ShilohTiger Wrote:  I watch entirely too much football.

I lived in Georgia for 15 years, and saw Matt Stafford's first games as a QB for the bulldogs and was entirely unimpressed. My first game in person in Athens, he turned the ball over 3-4 times against Miss. State, but had a lot of great stats.
Stafford went on to get a lot better, and filled up the passing statistical records at Georgia.
But Stafford is also known as a Stat compiler in the NFL, the best quarterback to never win a playoff game.

That brings me to Brady White. If all goes well, BW will become the greatest statistical QB in Memphis history. He'll lead us in yards and TD passes by the end of 2020. I hope this happens bc that means he'll have stayed healthy and we know Norvell is his ride or die brother.

But then I wonder why we can't get behind BW as a fan base. Last year, Stammers and I led the charge about how he consistently failed against good defenses and piled up huge numbers against cupcakes. We were trying to convince a certain population on this board that Brady was just an average QB, regardless of Wins/losses.

But like the movie 12 Angry Men, even though I led the charge against him in the past, I'd like to switch my vote and rally behind our Memphis QB regardless of what happens now.

I went to the South Alabama game in person, took my girlfriend and 4 neighbors that live in LA. Brady had a great statistical game, but he overthrew several receivers and killed some drives. We won. I decided not to post any analysis bc I felt like it would be piling on....

My gf is an Auburn season ticket holder. I watched Bo Nix throw 3 interceptions against Florida. This week I watched Jake Fromm turn it over 4 times against SC. Nix & Fromm still have the support of their fan bases.
I wondered, what's the difference here?

It's because when it matters, against the best teams in conference, has BW played a mistake free game? Does he have to? He just needs one game against a good defense where he doesn't turn it over or get rattled.

It reminds me of Peyton Manning. Most forget he carried a monkey on his back for years because he couldn't win the big game.(college and pro-I tore the goalpost down with half of ya'll)
He's an icon now with tons of accolades, but for the longest time, he got a lot of criticism.

Maybe it's the modern era, where every mistake is amplified....

It's also unfair to compare BW to Stafford, or Nix, or Fromm. He's not that caliber. Like other's have said, he's an average to above average G5 QB.
But with what he went through after the 1st Quarter, to throw for 375 yards, I really think he's turned the corner. I think this team, his coaches, and this fan base will rally behind him. I'm not saying we'll go undefeated or that the backup shouldn't get a single series in future games. And all of you know that this team will go only as far as Brady goes....

Here's to hoping he leads us in all-time career passing statistics.
But there's a chance he could also lead us in career wins.
(I'll leave it up to the stats guys to validate this)

I went to every home game when Winprine & Matthews were setting records. And like most fans I have a tendency to look backwards through rose tinted glasses.

BW is about halfway through his career at Memphis. His legacy is yet to be written. Maybe I'm a fool for having too high expectations. But there's a chance that he could be remembered for his wins more than his stats....

(If Navy keeps winning, that may become a bigger win than most expected at the time)

(Also, I can't think of specific names, but what are some high stat QBs from Hawaii or Texas Tech or other similar teams that never really won any big games?)

Bo Nix is trash.

I watched the PSU/Iowa game and saw two top 25 P5 teams that I wouldn't trade Brady for.

And I watched UTk and MSU. Again, QB's that I wouldn't want.

From P5 schools.

Brady literally gets judged on EVERY pass he makes or misses. I get that int vs. Temple was HORRIBLE. But few QB's right now get judged so harshly as Brady does (by of all fan bases) Memphis.

It isn't that at all. When he refuses to run or runs and gets caught when he should easily be able to get a first down, he gets judged on that.

When he gets "tackled" by a hand brushing up against his helmet, or a defender lunging at him with one arm, or by not being able to sidestep a rush and then have plenty of time to throw, he gets judged on that.

He gets judged because he can't throw the ball across the field, so defenders don't really have to defend receivers on the wide side.

Most of us don't see it as Brady throwing a bad interception or fumbling on a rush; it isn't one or two plays. It is a dozen plays every game that would be much different if he had a stronger arm, wasn't so slow, and wasn't so easy to take down.

If he is 16 of 21 for 215 yards, but sprinkled in between he takes 3 sacks, doesn't run for a first down when the field is wide open twice, or runs and gets caught because he is the slowest player on the field a couple of times; that adds up to 10-20 less points per game, purely because he is so horrible in those areas.

- IF he was as hard to bring down as Ferguson
- IF he was as fast as Ferguson or Wimprine
- IF his arm was as strong as Hankins' arm
- IF he was as mobile as Wimprine

All of the above quarterbacks were below average in those categories. If White was even below average in those categories, we would be scoring a lot more points.

It continues to fascinate me; how you have the mental capacity to know these things to be facts.

Please, go over your thought process.

How do you know that we would be scoring alot more points???
10-15-2019 08:55 PM
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Crazier Offline
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Post: #31
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 10:59 AM)oruvoice2 Wrote:  One other observation...without Gainwell our season is over.

Despite all of the kudos Norvell gets for recruiting (and much of it is justified), we don't have anyone else on the offensive side of the ball that is a difference maker. We've got some solid guys, but no game breakers.

We really, really need PT back.

Yep I said the same thing in the game thread. Huge dropoff in Offensive production when he went out. Last year Brady White had Darrell Henderson, Tony Pollard, and Patrick Taylor to take the pressure of him.
10-15-2019 11:29 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-15-2019 02:38 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  BW is the Josh Pastner of Memphis football. He's gonna put up gaudy stats, but just can't seem to win the big one.

True, because Memphis football fans are spoiled by winning so many "big ones" before Brady was here.


Pfft.
10-16-2019 09:19 AM
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geosnooker2000 Online
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Post: #33
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-16-2019 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(10-15-2019 02:38 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  BW is the Josh Pastner of Memphis football. He's gonna put up gaudy stats, but just can't seem to win the big one.

True, because Memphis football fans are spoiled by winning so many "big ones" before Brady was here.


Pfft.

Oh, so you're content with never winning the big one.

Duly noted... 07-coffee3
10-16-2019 09:20 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #34
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-16-2019 09:20 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  
(10-16-2019 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(10-15-2019 02:38 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  BW is the Josh Pastner of Memphis football. He's gonna put up gaudy stats, but just can't seem to win the big one.

True, because Memphis football fans are spoiled by winning so many "big ones" before Brady was here.


Pfft.

Oh, so you're content with never winning the big one.

Duly noted... 07-coffee3

No, just that when someone brought up Pastner and his failings, Josh's failure was in comparison to Cal before him and Finch, Kirk, and Bartow before that.

Brady's failure to win "the big one" (despite winning the AAC West) is a failure in comparison to what?

Ferguson's wins over UCF and AAC Title game win?

Lynch's AAC titles?

Wimprine's NO Bowl win?

Help me out?
10-16-2019 09:35 AM
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geosnooker2000 Online
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RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
It's very simple. ....in comparison to WINNING THE BIG GAME. And HOW did "he" (nevermind the NFL talent he was dumping the ball off to) "win the West"? A freaking weak-ass 3 way tie. I'll tell you the whole point of this, wrapped up in one game. The Championship game last year. That was the "Big Game" for last year that he should have won. Had a damn good lead to start the second half. That's an example of "can't win the big game." I don't care WHAT Lynch and Wimprine and Ferguson did as it relates to the future success of this team and Brady White's performance. Just like I didn't care about how crappy we were in the 80s and 90s when Wimprine came along. Referring back to past QBs is a total waste of time. I want to win. Period. End of sentence. If you don't, maybe you're not a Tigers fan.
10-16-2019 09:58 AM
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RekeHavoc Offline
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Post: #36
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
Lynch beat a highly-ranked team and had us in good position until his coach quit, er, got distracted.

Ferguson had a really good UCF team dead to rights at the end of regulation in the AAC title game on the road. Silly penalties knocked us out of FG range and, ultimately, cost us the game.

Those guys did what they did with a defense that couldn't stop my grandmother from scoring. I believe BW has the benefit of a better defense and we still have good playmakers all over the field.

The fact that we had to go to the wildcat formation so much in the AAC title game last year should tell you all you need to know.

I'm really pulling for BW. I hope he can improve. We need him to be good to get to where we all want to go. But as of right now, he seems to be the weakest link.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2019 11:25 AM by RekeHavoc.)
10-16-2019 11:24 AM
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Unionman76 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
we should probably run the wildcat now

with 3 tight ends and jojo
10-16-2019 11:49 AM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #38
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-16-2019 09:58 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  It's very simple. ....in comparison to WINNING THE BIG GAME. And HOW did "he" (nevermind the NFL talent he was dumping the ball off to) "win the West"? A freaking weak-ass 3 way tie. I'll tell you the whole point of this, wrapped up in one game. The Championship game last year. That was the "Big Game" for last year that he should have won. Had a damn good lead to start the second half. That's an example of "can't win the big game." I don't care WHAT Lynch and Wimprine and Ferguson did as it relates to the future success of this team and Brady White's performance. Just like I didn't care about how crappy we were in the 80s and 90s when Wimprine came along. Referring back to past QBs is a total waste of time. I want to win. Period. End of sentence. If you don't, maybe you're not a Tigers fan.

That's a weird, angry rant.

Memphis scored 41 points in the title game and spotted the defense 17 point leads on three separate occasions.

UCF's final six drives starting in the 2nd quarter (minus the end of half) went like this:

TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN

But yeah, blame Brady.
10-16-2019 12:00 PM
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tiger1016 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-16-2019 12:00 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(10-16-2019 09:58 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  It's very simple. ....in comparison to WINNING THE BIG GAME. And HOW did "he" (nevermind the NFL talent he was dumping the ball off to) "win the West"? A freaking weak-ass 3 way tie. I'll tell you the whole point of this, wrapped up in one game. The Championship game last year. That was the "Big Game" for last year that he should have won. Had a damn good lead to start the second half. That's an example of "can't win the big game." I don't care WHAT Lynch and Wimprine and Ferguson did as it relates to the future success of this team and Brady White's performance. Just like I didn't care about how crappy we were in the 80s and 90s when Wimprine came along. Referring back to past QBs is a total waste of time. I want to win. Period. End of sentence. If you don't, maybe you're not a Tigers fan.

That's a weird, angry rant.

Memphis scored 41 points in the title game and spotted the defense 17 point leads on three separate occasions.

UCF's final six drives starting in the 2nd quarter (minus the end of half) went like this:

TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN

But yeah, blame Brady.

..and the offense couldn't muster up a decent drive; move the chains, run the clock, etc. Everyone knows why. Keep throwing the rest of the team under the bus; White is obviously infallible.
10-16-2019 12:07 PM
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RE: As I watch MNF and Matthew Stafford, I can't help but think about Brady White
(10-16-2019 12:07 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(10-16-2019 12:00 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(10-16-2019 09:58 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:  It's very simple. ....in comparison to WINNING THE BIG GAME. And HOW did "he" (nevermind the NFL talent he was dumping the ball off to) "win the West"? A freaking weak-ass 3 way tie. I'll tell you the whole point of this, wrapped up in one game. The Championship game last year. That was the "Big Game" for last year that he should have won. Had a damn good lead to start the second half. That's an example of "can't win the big game." I don't care WHAT Lynch and Wimprine and Ferguson did as it relates to the future success of this team and Brady White's performance. Just like I didn't care about how crappy we were in the 80s and 90s when Wimprine came along. Referring back to past QBs is a total waste of time. I want to win. Period. End of sentence. If you don't, maybe you're not a Tigers fan.

That's a weird, angry rant.

Memphis scored 41 points in the title game and spotted the defense 17 point leads on three separate occasions.

UCF's final six drives starting in the 2nd quarter (minus the end of half) went like this:

TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN
TOUCHDOWN

But yeah, blame Brady.

..and the offense couldn't muster up a decent drive; move the chains, run the clock, etc. Everyone knows why. Keep throwing the rest of the team under the bus; White is obviously infallible.

Dramatic much?

So basically Memphis needed to score 60 to win.

That's the benchmark?

They scored 41 points. In most worlds (and spotting the defense leads of 24-7, 31-14, and 38-21) that is enough.

UCF punted one time the whole game-their FIRST drive.
10-16-2019 12:21 PM
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