(10-15-2019 08:54 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(10-15-2019 07:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:13 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 08:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think whoever wins in 2020, it is going to be an incredibly contentious time. The country is divided pretty much 50/50, and both halves have gone to their extremes. There is no middle ground, or at least nobody standing there.

What has the right gone to the extreme on?

The religious right social issues--abortion, gay rights
Drugs--although Trump has shown some signs of possibly relaxing
The neocon wars of intervention that we don't fight to win

There are some policies where they are not extreme enough for me:

They've pretty much abandoned fiscal responsibility--democrats want tax-and-spend, republicans want deficit-and spend
They have totally perverted supply side economics into just cutting taxes, in an apparent effort to starve the beast. Democrats are proposing taxes that will destroy our economy; there are other tax structures that will raise more revenues without being so punitive to investment.
I would like to see republicans come forth with viable proposals to address health care, welfare reform, social security, the environment, and taxes. Otherwise, we are going to be stuck with democrat crazy socialist/communist/collectivist programs.

You are 100% wrong on gay rights. The right has simply proposed keeping things as they are. Its the gay lobby that is extreme.

How has the right gone to extreme on drugs when there was a national consensus in the 90s? Again you are 100% wrong. The right has been lightening the laws as well, just not as extreme as the left who wants to put all criminals back on the street to continue to torment regular people.

As for wars, Eisenhower did end the Korean war, Nixon got us out of Vietnam, Reagan got us in and out of Grenada and avoided getting us in Nicaragua, HW got us in and out of Kuwait. And while W got us stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan, Afghanistan was not really optional. They attacked us and there was a national consensus.

Truman got us into Korea. JFK and LBJ got us into the Vietnamese quagmire they knew wasn't winnable at a price Americans were willing to pay. Clinton turned Yugoslavia into a mess. He did avoid getting bogged down in Somalia but did give us "Blackhawk down." Obama contributed to the mess already in Syria, and created a failed nation-state in Libya.

I don't see how this is a "right" sort of thing.

Educating Leftists...

Owl isn't a leftist. But I think he pays too much attention to the MSM and has had his reality distorted. Or maybe its just that he is a Libertarian, who by definition are extremists, so everyone around him seems extreme.

(10-15-2019 07:48 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:17 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 09:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 09:38 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Does anyone believe Warren would be a unifying figure?

Does anyone believe there is any candidate who would be a unifying figure? I'm considering Trump and all the democrats in this.

Somebody more moderate like Kasich might be, but Kasich isn't going anywhere. I don't see any democrat that I would consider moderate.

Kasich would be treated like Romney by the MSM.

He would be eaten alive and wouldn't know what to do about it

Kasich is a douche. He's as insane as Hillary. I wouldn't want him to be dogcatcher.

Agree, and halfwit Mitt is just as bad.


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(10-15-2019 07:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:13 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 08:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think whoever wins in 2020, it is going to be an incredibly contentious time. The country is divided pretty much 50/50, and both halves have gone to their extremes. There is no middle ground, or at least nobody standing there.

What has the right gone to the extreme on?

The religious right social issues--abortion, gay rights
Drugs--although Trump has shown some signs of possibly relaxing
The neocon wars of intervention that we don't fight to win
There are some policies where they are not extreme enough for me:
They've pretty much abandoned fiscal responsibility--democrats want tax-and-spend, republicans want deficit-and spend
They have totally perverted supply side economics into just cutting taxes, in an apparent effort to starve the beast. Democrats are proposing taxes that will destroy our economy; there are other tax structures that will raise more revenues without being so punitive to investment.
I would like to see republicans come forth with viable proposals to address health care, welfare reform, social security, the environment, and taxes. Otherwise, we are going to be stuck with democrat crazy socialist/communist/collectivist programs.

You are 100% wrong on gay rights. The right has simply proposed keeping things as they are. Its the gay lobby that is extreme.
How has the right gone to extreme on drugs when there was a national consensus in the 90s? Again you are 100% wrong. The right has been lightening the laws as well, just not as extreme as the left who wants to put all criminals back on the street to continue to torment regular people.
As for wars, Eisenhower did end the Korean war, Nixon got us out of Vietnam, Reagan got us in and out of Grenada and avoided getting us in Nicaragua, HW got us in and out of Kuwait. And while W got us stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan, Afghanistan was not really optional. They attacked us and there was a national consensus.
Truman got us into Korea. JFK and LBJ got us into the Vietnamese quagmire they knew wasn't winnable at a price Americans were willing to pay. Clinton turned Yugoslavia into a mess. He did avoid getting bogged down in Somalia but did give us "Blackhawk down." Obama contributed to the mess already in Syria, and created a failed nation-state in Libya.
I don't see how this is a "right" sort of thing.

You are talking primarily about historical things, not current.

The current republican party has pretty much lost the plot.

I want a republican party that balances the budget by increasing revenues by broadening the tax base and lowering the rates, the way Europe does it and the way that Bowles/Simpson and Domenici/Rivlin recommend, and decreasing expenditures by reforming welfare and cutting out waste. I thought that was what republicans stood for.

There was a third (or fourth) party in the mid-1970s that was well to the right of republicans. They summed up their beliefs by saying:
1) In domestic policy, people who work should live better than people who don't work.
2) In foreign policy, treat your friends better than you treat your enemies.
3) In military policy, never fight a war that you don't intend to win.

I think those are pretty good ideas. I don't think today's republicans live by them.

(10-15-2019 12:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-15-2019 07:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 10:13 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(10-14-2019 08:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think whoever wins in 2020, it is going to be an incredibly contentious time. The country is divided pretty much 50/50, and both halves have gone to their extremes. There is no middle ground, or at least nobody standing there.

What has the right gone to the extreme on?

The religious right social issues--abortion, gay rights
Drugs--although Trump has shown some signs of possibly relaxing
The neocon wars of intervention that we don't fight to win
There are some policies where they are not extreme enough for me:
They've pretty much abandoned fiscal responsibility--democrats want tax-and-spend, republicans want deficit-and spend
They have totally perverted supply side economics into just cutting taxes, in an apparent effort to starve the beast. Democrats are proposing taxes that will destroy our economy; there are other tax structures that will raise more revenues without being so punitive to investment.
I would like to see republicans come forth with viable proposals to address health care, welfare reform, social security, the environment, and taxes. Otherwise, we are going to be stuck with democrat crazy socialist/communist/collectivist programs.

You are 100% wrong on gay rights. The right has simply proposed keeping things as they are. Its the gay lobby that is extreme.
How has the right gone to extreme on drugs when there was a national consensus in the 90s? Again you are 100% wrong. The right has been lightening the laws as well, just not as extreme as the left who wants to put all criminals back on the street to continue to torment regular people.
As for wars, Eisenhower did end the Korean war, Nixon got us out of Vietnam, Reagan got us in and out of Grenada and avoided getting us in Nicaragua, HW got us in and out of Kuwait. And while W got us stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan, Afghanistan was not really optional. They attacked us and there was a national consensus.
Truman got us into Korea. JFK and LBJ got us into the Vietnamese quagmire they knew wasn't winnable at a price Americans were willing to pay. Clinton turned Yugoslavia into a mess. He did avoid getting bogged down in Somalia but did give us "Blackhawk down." Obama contributed to the mess already in Syria, and created a failed nation-state in Libya.
I don't see how this is a "right" sort of thing.

You are talking primarily about historical things, not current.

The current republican party has pretty much lost the plot.

I want a republican party that balances the budget by increasing revenues by broadening the tax base and lowering the rates, the way Europe does it and the way that Bowles/Simpson and Domenici/Rivlin recommend, and decreasing expenditures by reforming welfare and cutting out waste. I thought that was what republicans stood for.

There was a third (or fourth) party in the mid-1970s that was well to the right of republicans. They summed up their beliefs by saying:
1) In domestic policy, people who work should live better than people who don't work.
2) In foreign policy, treat your friends better than you treat your enemies.
3) In military policy, never fight a war that you don't intend to win.

I think those are pretty good ideas. I don't think today's republicans live by them.

How is gay rights not current?
How is drug reform not current?
Who is wanting to intervene now? Republicans are pretty split.