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KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #21
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-19-2019 08:51 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  We played 3 patsy teams and 3 mini-NFL teams. We could have played the second string for the first 6 games and still end up with the same W's and L's.

Assuming two of your patsy teams are Kennesaw State and Bowling Green, the Owls are 6-1 and ranked fourth in all of FCS football. Bowling Green just ran MAC West favorite Toledo off the field two weeks ago. So to think we could have suited up the second string and still been 3-3 is an ignorant statement.

And if you want to ditch the money games, fine. I’d love to hear your insightful analysis on how else the department generate $5 million in five weeks. I’m sure Joel and President Diacon would be very interested too.
10-21-2019 08:41 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #22
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
I’d also love to hear the insightful analysis on why it’s on the football team to be the sacrificial lambs and it’s on them to go out there and earn that $5 million. None of their peers schedule the money games as badly and boldly as KSU does.
10-21-2019 03:27 PM
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KSUforever Offline
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Post: #23
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
None of their peers cost the university as much as the football team. They have 14 coaches. Due to title IX we need to have multiple womens sports to achieve the scholarship total that football has plus all the female coaches for those non revenue producing teams.
10-22-2019 09:27 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #24
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-22-2019 09:27 AM)KSUforever Wrote:  None of their peers cost the university as much as the football team. They have 14 coaches. Due to title IX we need to have multiple womens sports to achieve the scholarship total that football has plus all the female coaches for those non revenue producing teams.
Their peers in the MAC that have football programs also have those sports and don’t have to pull a brutal OOC payday only schedule.
10-22-2019 01:53 PM
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Proud pilot Offline
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Post: #25
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-22-2019 09:27 AM)KSUforever Wrote:  None of their peers cost the university as much as the football team. They have 14 coaches. Due to title IX we need to have multiple womens sports to achieve the scholarship total that football has plus all the female coaches for those non revenue producing teams.
Football does cost the most to operate however it also generates a positive revenue stream. Money generated less expenditures football makes money.
Non revenue sports another way of saying sports operated with a negative flow.
What I find upsetting is because the AD is not creating a revenue stream from donations the football team plays "3" money games a year.
Not to mention 2020 Penn State and Alabama oh yea throw in another SEC team Kentucky too. Doesn't take a major skill set to sit at your desk and sign contracts for football team to be sacrificed.
10-22-2019 02:22 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #26
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
Proud pilot, are you certain that KSO football makes money? I couldn't locate any figures online for football, specifically. I did see that roughly 75% of the athletic department's "revenue" comes from the university, itself, mostly from student fees. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I like to see some official figures on that.
10-22-2019 05:21 PM
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AlphaFlash Offline
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Post: #27
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-21-2019 08:41 AM)JimJoyce Wrote:  
(10-19-2019 08:51 PM)AlphaFlash Wrote:  We played 3 patsy teams and 3 mini-NFL teams. We could have played the second string for the first 6 games and still end up with the same W's and L's.

Assuming two of your patsy teams are Kennesaw State and Bowling Green, the Owls are 6-1 and ranked fourth in all of FCS football. Bowling Green just ran MAC West favorite Toledo off the field two weeks ago. So to think we could have suited up the second string and still been 3-3 is an ignorant statement.

And if you want to ditch the money games, fine. I’d love to hear your insightful analysis on how else the department generate $5 million in five weeks. I’m sure Joel and President Diacon would be very interested too.

Did I say to ditch the money games? No. Do we need to play 3? Absolutely not! Especially since one cost an injury that kept a starter off the field for our first conference loss.
And how is Bowling Green good for playing up against Toledo? That's their rival. Even we have gotten lucky against Akron when we shouldn't have.
This schedule was designed to bring in money, not win games.
I WANT A BOWL GAME! You know, something the university can be proud of. Remember that one glimps of a year we were not a complete laughing stock? THAT WAS SEVEN YEARS AGO!
10-22-2019 08:04 PM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #28
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
Just out of curiosity, if we played just two guarantee games, give me an example of someone you’d like to play in that open slot.
10-23-2019 12:15 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #29
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-23-2019 12:15 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  Just out of curiosity, if we played just two guarantee games, give me an example of someone you’d like to play in that open slot.

I’ll go: get home and homes with AAC, CUSA, MWC, and CUSA teams. One home and one away each year to give us 6 home games for a change.
10-23-2019 04:26 PM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #30
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
So lets say someone like a UCONN. Or an FIU. Here’s the problem; or at least where I think Joel’s rationale comes from.

If you play a home-and-home with teams like those, you are playing an additional home game against a non-regional opponent. So they aren’t bringing any fans. We charge $10-$15 a ticket to get in and if its not 70 and sunny, people aren’t showing up. It actually costs KSU money to put on a home game. If you don’t get 20,000 people in there you are likely only breaking even. So there’s an opportunity missed. Why waste time playing a home game that no one may show up to when you can grab $2 million on the road?

And then, when it comes time to make the return trip to a UCONN or FIU, guess what? You’re on the hook for a $200,000 charter flight, and probably another $50,000 between hotel, meal and charter bus costs. All the same costs you’d incur heading to a guarantee game. Except - plot twist - there’s no check coming afterward. We are responsible for the whole bill.

Hell of a lot easier to take the $2 million.
10-23-2019 07:07 PM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #31
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
A so begins the Vicious cycle, nobody comes to watch the games because there’s little following, there’s little following because the team stinks, the team stinks because we can’t string together any success, can’t string together any success because we schedule 3 fat Ls for the payday, finally get a home game and the weather isn’t as nice as it was when you played in 95degree weather in the Deep South or Arizona and/or we’re playing on a chilly school/work night...wash, rinse, repeat.

When other MAC programs are hosting the Morgan States Or Albany’s we’re pimping the kids out to Alabama or Auburn or Clemson.
10-23-2019 08:00 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-23-2019 08:00 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  A so begins the Vicious cycle, nobody comes to watch the games because there’s little following, there’s little following because the team stinks, the team stinks because we can’t string together any success, can’t string together any success because we schedule 3 fat Ls for the payday, finally get a home game and the weather isn’t as nice as it was when you played in 95degree weather in the Deep South or Arizona and/or we’re playing on a chilly school/work night...wash, rinse, repeat.

When other MAC programs are hosting the Morgan States Or Albany’s we’re pimping the kids out to Alabama or Auburn or Clemson.

Fine by me. We need the money. Also, honestly, I doubt the kids care.
10-23-2019 08:40 PM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #33
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
Yes they’d much rather go 0-3 and limp into the conference schedule for the sake of money woes than go 2-1 or even 3-0 and gain some momentum to actually string some success together.
10-23-2019 08:54 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #34
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
I'm curious (I've never tried to dig it up) how transparent the finances of a college athletic department actually are. When people say we need the money, do we really? Or is that the illusion laid out there to donors to try to drum up more money? I assume at least to some degree it's like pro sports teams where the details aren't available to the public so you can end up with comments from MLB owners that they lose money on a team every year and everyone laughs because it is obviously pure BS.

It's just hard for me to believe that we desperately need to schedule like this to get by but the rest of the MAC doesn't. For example, OU got 16k and 17k to their two NC home games. BG got 17k and 18k. For our one we got over 18k. So why are they not drowning?

And if it was true that we're so tight financially, how can we afford to have the most expensive AD? And if we need to schedule like this to make up the lack of donors what is the AD doing to earn that salary since it's clearly not doing well with donations? This isn't meant as an anti-Nielsen comment. I just read this discussions back and forth and it doesn't seem to add up.
10-23-2019 09:44 PM
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Proud pilot Offline
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Post: #35
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-23-2019 08:40 PM)dannyb73 Wrote:  [quote='Polish Hammer' pid='16393279' dateline='1571878804']
A so begins the Vicious cycle, nobody comes to watch the games because there’s little following, there’s little following because the team stinks, the team stinks because we can’t string together any success, can’t string together any success because we schedule 3 fat Ls for the payday, finally get a home game and the weather isn’t as nice as it was when you played in 95degree weather in the Deep South or Arizona and/or we’re playing on a chilly school/work night...wash, rinse, repeat.

When other MAC programs are hosting the Morgan States Or Albany’s we’re pimping the kids out to Alabama or Auburn or Clemson.

Fine by me. We need the money. Also, honestly, I doubt the kids care.
Love to know the sports you played and what level to make the statement "I doubt the kids care". Please share in your athletic endeavors when you were over matched in physical size that happens when we play Auburn and Wisconsin.
My opinion seems to be a lot of "Mr Negatives" that are part of the losing culture which exists at Kent State .
How about this for idea for those that don't want to drop the 3 money game. You hire a AD that actually fund raises so you don't need 3 money games
10-23-2019 10:30 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-23-2019 08:54 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Yes they’d much rather go 0-3 and limp into the conference schedule for the sake of money woes than go 2-1 or even 3-0 and gain some momentum to actually string some success together.

They are getting to travel and play in stadiums against programs they respect and see on TV all the time. They get the chance to compete. When you are a high level athlete, that is what you want. To test yourself against the best. Don't act like this is KSU vs some NFL team.

If you think they would rather play a home game in an empty stadium against Youngstown State or someone similar, I have some ocean front property here in Memphis I'd like to sell you.
10-24-2019 02:23 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #37
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-23-2019 09:44 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  .
It's just hard for me to believe that we desperately need to schedule like this to get by but the rest of the MAC doesn't. For example, OU got 16k and 17k to their two NC home games. BG got 17k and 18k. For our one we got over 18k. So why are they not drowning?

And if it was true that we're so tight financially, how can we afford to have the most expensive AD? And if we need to schedule like this to make up the lack of donors what is the AD doing to earn that salary since it's clearly not doing well with donations? This isn't meant as an anti-Nielsen comment. I just read this discussions back and forth and it doesn't seem to add up.
Thank you, that’s exactly my point. Our MAC peers don’t follow our model, which obviously sucks and sets us up for constant failure.
10-24-2019 07:36 AM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #38
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
Well in 2019 our guarantee games all ended up being Top-25 teams. And yet somehow we made it out of the first month 2-2, 3-3 after the first half. So the idea this schedule is a constant roadblock to our success is a fallacy.

I do think whoever scheduled Kennesaw State (not once but twice!) needs to be slapped.
10-24-2019 08:35 AM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #39
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-24-2019 02:23 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 08:54 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Yes they’d much rather go 0-3 and limp into the conference schedule for the sake of money woes than go 2-1 or even 3-0 and gain some momentum to actually string some success together.

They are getting to travel and play in stadiums against programs they respect and see on TV all the time. They get the chance to compete. When you are a high level athlete, that is what you want. To test yourself against the best. Don't act like this is KSU vs some NFL team.

If you think they would rather play a home game in an empty stadium against Youngstown State or someone similar, I have some ocean front property here in Memphis I'd like to sell you.

Who's suggesting we play more FCS teams? No one. How about other G5 teams? Toledo played BYU this year. How about them or other MWC teams? AAC teams--UC, Memphis, ECU, USF. Or CUSA--Marshall, S. Miss, Charlotte etc. There are lots of programs in peer conferences we could play and then even drop the one FCS game we currently have. At least give a CHANCE for a good KSU team to start 3-1 or 4-0.

In 2012 we played, (along with Towson) UK (bottom P5 team), Army, and a pre-Big 10 but ranked Rutgers. That's a fair schedule for a good MAC program. They've got a fighting chance at a winning season or better. Now, we have to be great to finish .500.
(This post was last modified: 10-24-2019 08:40 AM by axeme.)
10-24-2019 08:39 AM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #40
RE: KSU (2-0) at OU (1-1)
(10-24-2019 08:35 AM)JimJoyce Wrote:  Well in 2019 our guarantee games all ended up being Top-25 teams. And yet somehow we made it out of the first month 2-2, 3-3 after the first half. So the idea this schedule is a constant roadblock to our success is a fallacy.

I do think whoever scheduled Kennesaw State (not once but twice!) needs to be slapped.

The last two years we've definitely got through them fine. It's hard to ignore the rash of injuries sustained in these games during the Haynes era though.

And one of the road blocks is having one less winnable game than the rest of the conference. In conference we have to go at least 5-3 for bowl eligibility but more likely 6-2 for a real bowl shot. Where most MAC teams have the possibility of winning 4 or 5 and still having a solid shot.

I will add, ASU probably turned out to be better than we thought when we scheduled them. Typically it seems we try to schedule two powerhouses and 1 big school that traditionally isn't a power. In an up year we should be able to compete in that game which makes the chance of 2 NC wins more realistic. However, ASU turned out to be really good this year.
10-24-2019 11:22 AM
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