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Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
I personally think that Temple has in Nate, Scott, Moorman and Dunn, four players who are better right now, than Rose, ron both sides of the ball, with some others not that far behind, if behind. My view was fortified after watching all the Temple players who played both in the three games played in the Bahamas, and in the intra-squad scrimmages.
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It's possible that you will turn out to be correct.

However, it's often hard to say which player is "better," because no two of them play the same position. Moorman may be a better PF, but Rose is a better wing, and Nate is the best defender and penetrator, and Scott may be the most effective passer and scorer.

They're all good. If Rose wasn't good, he wouldn't have been 2nd team all-AAC last season or first team this season.

I compare him to Mark Macon in a way, who you probably never saw play.

Macon was a McDonald's All-American 5 star player who came to John Chaney and asked Chaney if he could play at Temple. He won numerous accolades (player of year, etc.) and was one of Temple's all-time leading scorers.

However, statistically, Macon wasn't extremely impressive when it came to efficiency or FG%, at least in certain games when he would take 15 or 18 shots and only hit 5 or 6 of them.

The reason Macon was such an important player for Temple was that somebody needed to create his own shots on those teams, and Macon was the best shot creator. Few opponents could guard him successfully. He was just going to score 20-30 points a game, most games, and there wasn't anything anybody could do about it.

That's a little bit how Rose is. FG% isn't his strong suit, and having possession so much of the game, he's going to make some turnovers. But some teams need a Macon or a Rose to move beyond the ordinary. Macon made Temple extraordinary, almost single-handedly.

If a single player can do dazzling things and make the defense focus on him, he can help the team even if creating all those shots results in taking some ill-advised shots.

Every possession of the game, a team has to find a way to score. Having one athlete who can find a way to score when his teammates can't means that that player will put up a few clunkers, but at least his team got a shot off, and might get the rebound, which is sometimes better than not putting up any shots at all.

Maybe you don't agree. Sometimes, even I don't agree, because I often got frustrated when the ball kept going to Macon and a defending player was able to shut him down. But overall, without Macon, that team wouldn't have gone to the elite 8, and I believe that without Rose, this Temple team wouldn't be able to be as special as it might be able to be.

So that's what's great about Rose. He helps make the team great because he is unpredictable and hard to stop. There are extra pluses to his game that offset the occasional blunders. In most games, for every glitch, there is something spectacular.
10-15-2019 06:19 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-15-2019 07:50 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Temple opponents out roubounded Temple in conference games.

Rose was part of the problem as he did not rebound as well a NPL l, Temple’s other wing. NPL playing slightly less than Rose, averaged 4.1 rebounds per game in conference play, compared to Rose’s 3.8 rebounds per game playing 35.5 mpg.

Rose’s rebounding production actually declined from the year before when he played less minutes ( 30 mpg ), and garnered 4.1 rebounds per game in conference play.

This seems to indicate that Rose has been pacing himself, and HC McKie should consider lowering Rose’s playing time.

McKie has the additional option of subbing in for Rose, either Perry, Moorman, And Hamiton who are all better rebounders than Rose based on playing 40 mpg.

Totally agree about Rose's rebounding. He has never been a strong rebounder, and this has clearly contributed to some losses.

In contrast, NPL is an amazing rebounder for a guard of his size. The contrast between him and Rose is incredible.

All I can think of is that NPL is more muscular than Rose. QR is very lean, and doesn't have the muscle mass in his upper body to bang with opposing forwards.

Even before his injury, when he could often penetrate to the basket area, he didn't show the grit to post up for rebounds.

Going back through Temple's history, Mark Karcher, too, was a high scorer and an abysmal rebounder, and it hurt the team then too.

It could be possible that FD instructed Rose not to risk injury by banging for rebounds, or that he wanted Rose to play on the perimeter except when driving to the hoop.

Only other thought is that perhaps Rose had a history of being injured going for rebounds and thus has to be cautious so that he can remain healthy enough to play a whole season.

Bottom line is that, with NPL over-rebounding for a guard, the Owls back court as a unit isn't the main rebounding problem.

As I see it, Hamilton is the guy who is the major cause of our rebounding deficit last year. Rose might be #2 on the lists. Damion, JP, and Perry all failed to get as many rebounds as the team needed them to.

But yes, especially if Rose wants to play in the NBA, this season is his best opportunity to show that he is an impressive all-around player. If there was any "prima-donna" tendency in the past, this is his chance to step up and be "the man."
10-15-2019 08:49 PM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
While I suggested in a previous post that Rose should play less minutes because of his poor rebounding is off, I was short-sighted in suggesting that. As Rose did certain things in conference play that suggests otherwise.

As there is no more important stat than blocks, followed By steals. As each steal is one additional scoriing opportunity for a team they otherwise would not have had, and one less opportunity for the team that had the ball stolen from them. Steals are part of turnovers.

Other types of turnovers, as examples, are throwing the ball out of bounds, driving and running over a defender, and picking up an offensive foul.

Temple was the fourth best team in the conference in committing the fewest turnovers (203), and third best in the conference in opponents having the most turnovers (259).

So a team averaging 3 less turnovers than it’s opponents has six more scoring opportunities off of its three net turnovers per game. But, subtracted or added to that is the offensive rebounding margin between two teams in a given game.

A steal is equivalent to scoring swing of three-points off of one steal.

Temple was number one in the AAC conference in steals (155) and should be so again this year

. Temple allowed the fourth lowest in steals (104) in the conference.
Temple was ranked in 16th in the nation in steals per game, as Temple averaged 8.66 steals per game. Duke was no.3 averaging 9.47 steals per game.,Both should once again reach such rankings again in steals, here’s why.

In Q.Rose and NPL, Temple has returning to the top ball stealers in the conference, as Rose finished second in the conference in steals and NPL fifth in the conference. And they return as the 2nd and fourth best, as no.2, Memphis guard Jeremiah Martin has graduated.

Temple loses Shizz Alston, the AAC’s seventh best ball stealer, but is replaced James Scott, who was the fifth best ball stealer in the Asun conference when he played for KSU.

Scott averaged 2.17 steals per 40 minutes. That stat would have placed him of all returning AAC third in the ACC right behind Q. Rose, who had 2.45 steals per 40 minutes.

NPL, with 1.65 steals per 40 minutes ranks 5th best of all returning players in the AAC.

It should be noted that Rose, NPL and Scott all averaged playing over 30 mpg. Alani Moore, who averaged 14 mpg, averaged 2.4 steals on a 40 minute basis, right behind Q. Rose.

Freshman JPL will be a ball hawk as well in the limited minutes he will probably play, as well freshman D.Dunn when he is able to play.

So Temple on the defensive perimeter will be a force to be reckoned with. Especially with Temple knowing that it can averaging 6 extra net (after Temple’s turnovers are subtracted out) scoring opportunities per game in conference play, if Temple players should be able to steal the ball this season like they did last season. Maybe even more so, if Scott and Alani are sharing PG duties.No other team in the AAC conference is likely to come close to Temple in steals.

Temple was also no. 1 in the ACC, by limiting opponents to making only 29.6 percent on three-pointers, while Temple was third best in the AAC in three-point shooting percentage, at 35.3 percent in conference play.

The above is one indication that Temple has a terrific roster. But Temple Will only be a successful team if Mckie’s makes use of Temple’s extraordinary athletic gifts by having his perimeter players pressure to ball and make lots of steals.
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2021 12:09 PM by Miggy.)
10-16-2019 06:59 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Rose was part of the problem as he did not rebound as well a NPL l, Temple’s other wing. NPL playing slightly less than Rose, averaged 4.1 rebounds per game in conference play, compared to Rose’s 3.8 rebounds per game playing 35.5 mpg.

(quote)

The numbers break down differently when calculated per 40 minutes played.

Now, rather than comparing to NPL, let's compare him to Hamilton.

The results turn out to be a surprise to me:


Rose averaged 4.9 rebounds per 40 minutes. Hamilton averaged 5.9 rebounds per 40 minutes.

For a back court player, 5 rebounds per 40 minutes is generally considered par for the course.

For a front court player, 6 rebounds per 40 minutes is not considered high D1 level play.

So, the bottom line is that Rose hasn't been such a terrible rebounder, after all. Yes, he's not as good as NPL is as a rebounder, but he's about average for a back court player. You could argue that 4.9 rebounds in 40 minutes is low for a wing player, and I might agree with that, but most wing players do well to pull down more than 6 or 7 rebounds in 40 minutes.

But for a PF to only pull down 5.9 rebounds in 40 minutes is a major concern and limitation.

Bottom line is that Rose ought to get one more rebound per game, while Hamilton ought to bring down 2-3 more rebounds per game.

==========

We both agree that something has been wrong.

You've focused a bit more on player issues. I have focused more on coaching issues.

Player issues are always part of the game. It's easy enough to critique the players, but these guys are 18-22 years old, and perfection is unattainable. If they mess up, it's partly the coaches' responsibility to not have trained them better, or to have been a poor recruiter, or to give them playing time that they shouldn't have.

It is the coaches job to (a) recruit the right players, (b) to develop those players, © to deploy his players and rotate them so as to get the best bang for his buck, and (d) to game coach and make adjustments to help his players win as many games as they can.

If Rose didn't do certain things as well as others (or if Hamilton didn't, etc.), the coach shouldn't have put them on the court, or should have done a better job of developing and training them.

In the same way that you see gaps in Rose's game, I see gaps in Alani's and Hamilton's and really every player's game.

I saw FD do a much better of coaching than he did last season, and I know he was more capable at one time. All I can say is that he was coaching a couple years past his prime.

The only other thing I can think of to say is that some guys are scorers and not the best rebounders, for whatever reasons.

Some guys are finesse players, rather than physical players.

I'm much more worried about Hamilton's rebounding problem than Rose's, and I fear that he is a finesse player who avoids contact.

If true, then maybe Temple won't make it into the next two NCAA tournaments. In a lot of ways, Hamilton's ability to play near the basket may be the most important factor. It wouldn't be true if we had an abundance of bigs on the team, but we don't. Hamilton is the second tallest big on the team.

But I don't want to keep harping on Justyn's rebounding, other than to note that his rebounding hasn't impressed you either in the early pre-season scrimmages.
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2019 08:20 PM by jedclampett.)
10-16-2019 08:03 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-16-2019 06:59 AM)Miggy Wrote:  While I suggested in a previous post that it may be this season for Rose to play less minutes because his rebounding ell off, I may have been short-sighted in suggesting that. As Rose did certain things in conference play that suggests otherwise.

The above is one indication that Temple has a terrific roster..

Your paragraphs on Temple's steals and turnover ratios are right on - I mean, I agree completely.

If you subtract Temple's rebounding deficit from Temple's surplus of possessions due to better ball control and more steals, I believe that Temple ended up in the black. I think you've pointed this out before, which is why the rebounding deficit didn't bother you as much as it did me.

All I can add is that - imagine if Temple didn't have a rebounding deficit - then Temple's superior ball control, perimeter defense, and steals would probably cause Temple to end up with a much higher scoring surplus per game.

Last season, Temple's average margin of victory was about 2.5 ppg, if I recall correctly.

Strip away the rebounding deficit, and Temple's average margin of victory would have been closer to 7.5 ppg.

Beyond that, if Temple had a 2.5 rebounding surplus, Temple could been an outstanding team, with an average margin of victory close to 10 ppg.

==========

So, yes, Temple's ball control, stealing, and turnover margin may once again save the team's bacon quite often this season. My only point is that Temple could be a great team if they can do that and rebound the ball about as well as their average competition this season.

Somebody (on the coaching staff) is going to have to do some serious motivating in order to get that done. BTW, when our guys were motivated enough, such as against Houston at home, there was no rebounding deficit.
10-16-2019 08:32 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-16-2019 10:40 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Thanks for you response, and expanding the discussion to include Temple’s winning the steal battle, and opponents winning the offensive rebounding battle over Temple last season in conference play.

Basically, the total number of rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, minus turnovers is more important than shooting stats, such as FG% and FT%.

The reason is that, as we many would agree, the # of possessions determine the number of points a team can score. Winning the possession battle is often key to winning a game, especially when also playing tight enough defense to reduce opponent's FG%.

Yes, controlling the ball, avoiding turnovers, and causing turnovers are huge factors, but being out-rebounded can negate those factors.

The fact that Owls had some good rebounding must-win games against teams like Houston and USF tells us that the problem wasn't that the Owl players couldn't rebound well. The problem was that too often, they didn't have the high motivation to rebound well.

Motivation was better last year than in previous seasons, but it was still too inconsistent.

I expect Aaron McKie to be a much better motivator, and to be more focused than FD was on maximizing possessions by not allowing rebounding to be a continuing problem.

I also expect him to work harder, because as he's said, he was always somewhat of a "gym rat," coming up through the years, and he showed incredible, but quiet toughness as a player.

Thus, my guess is that, under McKie, the possession advantage may increase significantly, compared to last season. If that happens, and if McKie develops the key game coaching skills, the team might be more successful than it was last season.
10-17-2019 01:00 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
p.s.

No one else has jumped into this thread yet, but congratulations!

This thread now has 580 views. So some folks are interested.
10-17-2019 01:02 AM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Nice that close to 100 fans are interested in reading about Temple men’s bb.

We left off discussing Temple garnering nearly 3 extra scoring opportunities per game in conference play, via steals by forcing opponents to make 3 more turnover per game than Temple did, and opponents having three fewer scoring opportunities.

On the other hand, opponent averaged three more offensive rebounds than Temple did on the boards per game than Temple did.

Comparing turnovers and offensive rebounding stats is like comparing apples to oranges.

As when a steal is made the team usually has an unimpeded path to the hoop. The ball stealer can usually pass the ball forward for easy score or go to the hoop himself.

That happens way less often the offensive rebounders, plus put-backs are often contested.

Also, unlike steals, a team on one possession can have multiple put-backs. That doesn’t show up in the box score.

A box score may show that one team had 10 offensive rebounds, and the other team had six. It may well be that the team with 10 offensive rebounds had multiple offensive rebounds on one possession.

So, given that more offensive rebounds are contested than steals are, the turnover margin one team has over another, is more significant than the offensive rebounding margin, and should be looked at separately, and offensive rebounds given less weight.

And because so many more offensive rebounds are contested than steals are, one should consider the turnover margin so much more significant.

In one of Temple’s wins over UConn last season, Temple was out-rebounded by 11 offensive rebounds, yet Tempe won by 16 points, as Temple shooting the lights out determined the outcome of the game.
Temple won many games where they were out rebounded.

Significantly, In 8 of Temple’s 10 losses, Temple had more offensive rebounds than opposing teams did.

In Temple’s two other losses to Villanova and Cincinnati, where Temple was out-rebounded by 6 (Temple had 2 less turnovers) and 14 (Temple committed 2 less turnovers) offensive rebounds respectively, Temple led in both games with 5 minutes to play, an indication that opponents advantage on the boards were not a big factor in Temple’s two losses.

In 18 conference games opponents had 60 more offensive rebounds than Temple did, or about three per game in conference play. If Temple this season finds some way to get some combination of more offensive or defensive rebounds, opponents advantage on the offensive end will disappear.


But one should be aware that with the advent of small ball by Hall of Fame NBA HC Don Nelson, teams have made an intentional calculation to allow opponents to garner more offenvie rebounds in a game.
As they have decided to create mis-matches in which a smaller player has an offensive advantage over a a bigger player by shooting the three-ball or driving to the hoop. They are willing to trade opponents getting more offensive rebounds as long as they win the shooting percentage and scoring battle, and this has filtered down to the college game.

Temple has players like Perry can create those mis-matches. So having him on the court and shooting well makes sense as he has an offensive advantage over defensive bigger opponents., Did last year and will even more so this season, especially with Perry making opponent bigs decide whether to guard the three- point line, where he can stroke the three ball or drive to the hoop.
.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2020 01:47 PM by Miggy.)
10-17-2019 12:53 PM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
I’m totally pumped about this team and here’s why. Temple has eight three-point shooters! No AAC roster is even close.

It’s imperative that Moorman and Alani’s, two of Temple’s best three-point shooters, shoot more often.

With Temple having so many good scorers, there should be more balance among players. If so, opponents can’t defend and double up on particular point shooters as Temple will always have a lot of three’s point-shooters on the court at the same time.

It seemed from the intra-squad scrimmage that McKie tealises that as more players were involved in the offense as in the past.

In conference play, Temple took 40-percent of it’s all it’s FGA’s as three’s, and hopefull Temple will increase that percentage to over 50 percent as Temple has so many good three point shooters they should, and because needs to greatly reduce the high percentage of two’s that they and everyone else convert at a low-rate.

It’s good to shoot more three’s as Temple shot 49.8 percent on 2’s last season in conference play, and Templenshooting 34 percent on three’s, is equivalent to shooting 52.5 percent on ywo’s.

Temple needs to also transfer those shots to driving more to the hoop, and taking more close-in jump shots.

HC McKie has given some preliminary indications he see’s a need to both shoot more three’s, and expanding that to include more players, but also not shoot long two’s. In witnessed that in Bahamas and the intra-squad game.

He also has the team playing more up-tempo at times and he needs to do that to get all his players involved.

Still have fear that Temple will favor certain players as they last year, that cost Temple wins. Hard to win when players shot is off, and he keeps shooting. Especially bad when two players do that.

No need for Scott to replace all of Alston’s shots. Actually think Temple much better off getting everyone in the offense.

Temple averaged shooting 35 percent on three’s in the conference, fourth best. Temple’s three-point-shooting percentage should increase this season as well as Temple moving up in the conference as Houston lost two very high very high percentage three-point shooters. Temple lost Shizz Alston who shot 8.7 three’s per game and shot them at only 33 percent.

Temple held opponents to shooting 29.6 percent on three’s, third best in the conference.

Of Temple’s good three-point shooters, Moorman And Alani shot 42.4, (Mooorman 41 percent for the season) , are the two highest three-point percentages in the AAC, ahead of UConn’s Christian Vidal ( l40 percent).

Transfer James Scott joins Temple, having last shot 38.5 percent on three’s in conference play at KSU, , and after being told to not rush, shot 42.5 percent in the last month of February on 17-39 shooting. Would have been 48 percent of three of those fga’s had not been shot from half-court at the end of halves.

Dre Perry looked very good shooting three’s in the Bahamas and in the recent intrasquad scrimmage. Now healthy, can see him shooting three’s at 36.7 percent as he did conference play his freshman year. Has odd delivery shooting ball from the left side of his face, but it works for him.

Hamilton should be one Temple’s best three-point shooters. As Hamilton can see over his opponent, and has a near-perfect perfect shooting form. Didn’t shoot them last season, Will this season.

Q. Rose shot 34.8 percent on three’s in conference play last season. Hope he can do that this season.

NPL shot three’s at 34.7 percent in conference play. He shoots two’s and three’s at the same equivalency, but since he gets to the foul-line more driving to the hoop, it’s best he mostly shoot’s more two’s.

Freshman D. Dunn is a deadly off the dribble shooting a 2-point jump shot. Classic form. Pauses near the top to steady the ball before releasing it. Shot 60 percent in HS on two’s which is off the chart for a guard.

Till the other day, shot his three-point jump shot in one motion, with no pause, because otherwise he couldn’t getting get ball to hoop. But he missed shooting this way as he was all arms shooting the ball. He switched to getting the ball to the shooting pocket before he left the ground, so he would propel the ball forward with his legs, not arms. Wearing a boot, went 9-10 shooting three’s with legs, not arms. He will play a lot this year when he returns from his injury probably in early December.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2021 12:47 AM by Miggy.)
10-17-2019 03:48 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
OT, but please consider as we continue the dialogue.

This one thread may or may not be the ideal place to post everything of interest.

I could post all my thoughts about TUMBB on this thread, but with the long posts and all, this thread might be pretty unaccessible or intimidating to others who might hesitant to jump into such a detailed conversation.

Here's my idea:

When the season starts, let's set up a thread to discuss each game. That might be much more accessible - and helps to keep various discussions separate from each other.

Also, I have started a thread on Temple recruiting, and would like to discuss it with you and any others who might be interested. I would appreciate it if you would post on recruiting topics over there. Thanks.

I'm going to write a short post over there now, because the other board contains a lot of recent discussions and updates - things are heating up on the recruiting front, as November approaches.

==============

The point is that this thread could easily grow to 1,000 pages, and at that point, I doubt if anyone else would jump in. Also, writing separate threads would help to keep topics distinct. There are already a number of things you've written that I haven't had time to respond to. If you post on some different threads, it helps keep the topics separate, so it becomes less confusing.

==============

This could still be an omnibus thread that includes dialogues about the team as a whole, but let's add some more, ok?

I'd like to suggest having additional threads about these topics:

Temple Players (performance, health issues, other aspects): Move discussions of specific players over there.

Temple Coaching: We've already discussed this quite a bit on this thread, but would like to put future posts on coaching over there. There will be more and more of these, following announcements and press conferences or releases, and once the season starts. Would like to dosciss each member of coaching staff, eventually.

Pre-season (current; optional) I'd like to see discussions of the pre-season on a different thread, but if you feel strongly about it, they could stay on this omnibus thread.

Schedule discussion: A place to talk about upcoming Temple games on the schedule. We could talk about matchups, strategy issues, news about other teams (who's up, who's down), and where TUMBB may be gravitating vis a vis their schedule (higher, lower, etc.?).

Post-season considerations: To discuss how things are shaping up for the post-season. This topic gets hotter and hotter as the season goes on.

Game discussions: New thread for each game, like with the other message boards.

Other related topics (optional - a grab-bag category)

TUMBB news, developments (optional): Any new developments that arise with respect to the team, staff, etc.


============

Please let me know what you think of this.

If you're inclined to start a thread on a specific topic, I will respond there.

If you get a chance to take a look at the new recruiting thread, I'll contribute over there, further, if you or anyone responds.

Thanks.
10-17-2019 05:43 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-17-2019 08:57 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I think pre-season should stay here. Not sure if individual games should stay here or not.

I agree coaching staff, recruiting, schedule, post-season discussions, should on a separate thread. Although, a short blurb ok here occasionally. Would like to hear from readers for their input.

I myself find a very long thread with a lot of long posts hard to follow after awhile, and look forward to having some more specific threads that are easier to follow over time.

Thanks for responding to the recruiting thread, and hope you'll respond to some of those specific threads we're talking about going forward.
10-18-2019 05:57 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-17-2019 09:03 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Will post more on Temple men’s bb tomorrow.


Looking forward to receiving this weekend some feedback from Georgetown-Temple secret scrimmage this Saturday. .


Great. Looking forward to your report. Enjoy the scrimmage!
10-18-2019 05:58 AM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
The college game has evolved into teams shooting three’s and driving to the hoop

This season, Temple will have seven players-James Scott, NPL, JPL , Rose, Perry, Moorman, and Hamiton, who are capable at shooting three’s and driving to the hoop.

Last season. Moorman shot a whopping 80 percent at the rim, Hamilton 78 percent, D.Moore 70 percent, Rose and Scott in the low 60’s, and Perry at 58 percent. That’s terrific scoring near the rim.

Given that many of these players shoot three’s well, opponents will have to make a hard decision whether to play-up on these players or sag-off. Rarely do teams have so many players with multi-talented offensive skills.

In conference play, Temple shot 49.8 percent on 2’s, fourth best in the conference.

Temple can improve their two-point shooting percentage, as Mckie says he intends to push the tempo, fast break more, which should lead to easy hoops in transition.
.
If Mckie follows thru, Temple may increase it’s 2-point shooting from 49.8 percent Temple shot in conference play last season, and increase it’s 75.8 ppg scoring average in conference play.

But such won’t happen Mckie installs a new half-court offense that doesn’t work or if Rose or any other Temple player jacks-up many shots when they’re shooting poorly. If so, Temple’s scoring may even drop.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2021 06:20 AM by Miggy.)
10-18-2019 06:27 AM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
In the 2017-2018 season, Temple finished with a 17-16 overall record, and a 8-10 record in conference play. This past season with two starters having departed, and no new players joining the rotation, Temple was able to forge a 23-10 overall record, and a 13-6 win-loss record in conference play.

This huge improvement occurred because of three factors: 1) The most significant was that that some of Temple’s returning players, took so many more trips to the foul-line than they did the year before in conference play, and thus scored more points from the foul-line 2) Temple players increased their two and three-point shooting point percentage, but shot fewer two’s and three’s.


Temple players took 400 FTA’S (5th in conference) compared to 253 foul-shot attempts (11th in conference) in 18 conference the year before, an increase of 147 more foul shots, or 8.1 foul shots per conference game. Temple went from 11th in the conference in FTM to 3rd in the conference.


These additional foul shots when coupled with Temple increased it’s foul shooting percentage to 73.2 percent (3rd on conference) from 67.2 percent in conference play (11th in conference) the year before, resulted in Temple making 294 foul-shots which was 50 more foul-shots than Temple even attempted in conference play the year before. This further resulted in scoring on 124 more FTM or 6.8 more FTM per game, than Temple made the year before, An astonishing accomplishment, especially so, as three Temple players-NPL, Alston, and Rose,,were primarily responsible for the increase in foul-shots made.

Fully expect USF, Memphis, Temple, and Cincinnati to compete for most foul shots made this season. USF should take the most, but as they did last season, but. The made their foul shots at a very low rate.

As a result of Temple shooting so many more foul shots, Temple took 76 fewer FGA’s In conference play than it did the season before.

Temple also increased its 2-point shooting percentage to 49.8 (4th in conference) up from 46.6 percent (10th in the conference) the year before.

Temple took 35 fewer 3-point field goal attempts ( 322, 4th in conference) ) but increased their 3-point shooting to 35.3 percent (3rd in conference) up from 32.4 percent (9th in conference) Temple shot on 3’s the year before. Moorman, Alani Moore, and Rose all increased their respective three-point shooting, and that helped Temple shoot a higher three point percentage.

Do to Temple shooting a higher percentage on three’s, Temple ranked 2nd in three’s made (149) in the conference, even though Temple shot fewer three’s. In the prior year, Temple had taken the most three’s in the conference and also finished with 149 made three’s, 4th in the conference. So, Temple moved up in conference standings even though shooting fewer three’s.

Houston finished with the conferences most made three’s with 177. Temple was second md with 149 made 3’s.With Houston’s three big-time 3-point shooters, full expect Temple to take the most three’s, and finish with the most made three’s in the conference

Nate, Shizz, and Quentin accounted for. more 6.4 points of Temples 6.8 point increase in foul shots.

Nate increased his playing time from 20 mpg the year to 32 mpg in conference play, but Nate more than doubled his FTA’s from 2.5 To 5.6 FTA, and increased his FTM from1.5 to 3.8 FTM, and his foul shooting percentage increased from 60 percent to 69 percent.

Shizz increased his FTA from 1.8 to 4.6 per game, and FTM from 1.6 to 4.2 per game in conference play.

Rose increased his foul shots from 2.7 to 4.6 per conference game, and his FT percentage from 67.3 To 73.3 percent, a .5 percent, and increased his FTM made from 1.8 to 3.3.

Temple increased its scoring in conference play by 7.2 points per game in games from 68.6 points (7th in conference) to 75.8 ppg (3rd in conference), largely do to the increase in Temple players shooting more foul shots, shooing them at a higher percentage. Secondly, do to Temple players shooting two’s and three’s at a higher percentage, and shooting more three’s.

Temple will need to find a way to replace Shizz 4.6 FTA and 3.3 FTM per game.lHopefully by Temple playing more up-tempo, adding new players who can get to the hoop, and by having returning players drive to the hoop more that will occur.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2021 06:21 AM by Miggy.)
10-18-2019 12:16 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-18-2019 06:27 AM)Miggy Wrote:  With the colleges game having evolved into teams shooting three’s and driving to the hoop, Temple’s roster has been constructed with that in mind.

Some, but not all of Temple's roster may have been constructed that way. In fact, FD constructed most of the current roster, and he didn't construct a high tempo team, so I would say that the team is being constructed for high tempo, but not all the parts will fall into place for another year or two - probably two years. So we may have to wait two years to see how well it works when completely reconstructed with the quicker athletes - White, Dunn, JPL, and Quincy A., for example.

McKie will try to run the offense that way, and time will tell how well it works. If it's successful, that's one thing, but most run-and-gun teams are too one-dimensional to make it into the top 25.

Back in the day, Loyola Marymount (Coach Paul Westhead) ran the highest tempo teams in college basketball. They often scored over 100 ppg, and were exciting to watch. But there was a problem: The better opponents were able to slow down the game and take advantages of weaknesses in the Loyola teams (they didn't play great defense and only excelled in a transition game). That was an experiment that ultimately failed, once coaches figured out how to beat that style of play, and few other teams tried the same approach.

Was Temple able to win some fast-paced games last season? Yes, they did, for example, in high scoring games vs the high energy USF team, mostly because USF's play was too error-prone with modest FG%. But those were only 1 point victories.

I'm not sure that the current players can play their best at a fast tempo.
Nate and Alani can. Rose can, but needs extra rest. Damion and Moorman can, but only for short bursts. Overall, some of them can, while others can't for more than a couple of minutes.

Let's bear in mind, too, that higher tempo play can be associated with greater risk for injuries, and Temple's best unit is only an 8 man rotation, or 9 men when Dunn returns fully healthy. The injury to Dunn reminds us how damaging an injury can be to the team's fortunes.
10-18-2019 09:51 PM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Let’s see what happens this season before predicting the future. No way to know if certain players will tire without knowing Mckie’s sub-in scheme. Hope he keeps players fresh.
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2021 01:03 AM by Miggy.)
10-18-2019 10:22 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-18-2019 09:15 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Not sure if D.Moore has returned to practice.

Suspect that starting line-up will be Alani, Nate, Rose, Moorman, and Hamilton.

Hamiton will have tough time, as Georgetown is big, very big.

Based on what i’ve seen, do hope Moorman earns the right to take the most field-goal attempts, especially since most of his shots are three- balls, and he shoots them at 40 percent plus.

Rose and NPL may struggle as both face major obstacles getting to hoop. Hope they don’t compensate by taking a lot of jumpers.

In my gut, I always want to see two jump shooters in the backcourt.

Ultimately, I think Temple’s,’ best line-up would be Scott, Dunn, NPL or Rose, and D.Moore. Like it because there would be few turnovers, and Temple would be deadly from the outside, and still get to the hoop.Doubt we’ll ever see it.

1. Damion's status:

Not a good sign if not practicing yet with 3 weeks to go, considering his history of foot injuries. Those injuries could kick up again, especially with high speed of play. Very concerned about the OOC schedule with Dunn and Damion both hampered by injuries.

2. Suspect starting line-up: Alani, Nate, Rose, Moorman, and Hamilton.

Hamilton may end up as a starter the season if Damion's history of injuries is going to limit his play. I think he and Moorman can play well together, but not so confident about any combinations with Perry or Parks. Losing Damion could end up losing some winnable games.

Alani as a starter? I see him as a very limited role player with an incomplete offensive skill set and difficulties defending taller guards.

Maybe the HC wants to see Scott come in off the bench and give the team a jump start, but our best back court is definitely Nate, Rose, and Scott. If Alani plays more than 20 mpg, the team's productivity will lag significantly.

3. "Hamilton will have a tough time."

He very well may, but he's going to have a tough time the rest of his career until he learns how to play on the interior and accepts that role.

He's lean, it's true, but tall, athletic and muscular enough to play near the hoop. Got to get tough. "When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

We had a player named Tim Perry who was of somewhat similar build, but he became a truly dominant interior player and major shot blocker. It can be done. "Be the man, Ham."

4. "Georgetown is big, very big."

This is likely to be a problem for Temple until Coach McKie starts to recruit a sufficient number of big men.

The best D1 teams are well stocked with 6'9" and taller players who are athletic and able to dominate the basket area on both ends. Temple has two 6'9" or taller players, and one is not yet practicing. Next season, Temple will only have a player at that height, and the following season, Temple's tallest players will be only 6'8" (Parks & Forrester), unless McKie can recruit some true big men by then.

Any team without a single 6'9"+ player is unlikely to make it far beyond the round of 32 in the NCAA tournament.

5. Moorman - most FGAs?

With his height and shooting ability, could be possible, but he was so very reluctant to shoot last season, I don't expect him to take the most shots. Something like 10 to 12 shots per game would definitely help, though, would take scoring pressure off the back court players, and would prevent defenses from over-defending the guards/wings.

6. Rose and NPL struggle to get to the basket (?)

I don't see that as a big problem. Yes, Rose struggled in conference play, but that was when he was injured. In the prior seasons and OOC play last season, he was a brilliant penetrator to the hoop, although he did turn the ball over too often or failed to finish at times.

Nate's strong suit is penetrating toward the basket, it seems to me, and he is a good finisher. Intermediate range shooting is less consistent, and his 3 pt shot developed quite a bit.

7. "always want to see two jump shooters in the backcourt."

I don't think two is enough, because it's too easy for an opponent to shut down perimeter offense with only two jump shooters.

In fact, Temple wants to have four perimeter shooters much of the game (NPL, Rose, Scott, & Moorman). It's very hard to defend the perimeter against 4 good distance shooters.

The only reason Temple had success on offense last season was that NPL developed into a good perimeter shooter, so that Temple had 3 good backcourt jump shooters to defend against.

8. Ultimately, I think Temple’s,’ best line-up would be ... Scott, Dunn, NPL, Rose, and D.Moore.

That could be Temple's best lineup if D. Moore is healthy enough to play near 100%.

Here are some other good lineups for Temple:

Before Dunn returns:

1) Scott, NPL, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton.....that's about it.


After Dunn returns:

1) Scott, NPL, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton

2) Scott, NPL, Rose, Dunn, & Moorman/Damion/Hamilton

3) Scott, Dunn, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton

4) Scott, NPL, Dunn, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton

5) Dunn, NPL, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton


This illustrates, dramatically, how many more options Coach McKie will have when Dunn returns, assuming of course that Dunn comes back and is able to play at 100% in a way reminiscent of the way NPL and Rose played in their freshman seasons.

Mathematically, quintupling the number of best lineup possibilities may multiply, in turn, the likelihood of Temple victories when Dunn returns.
10-18-2019 10:51 PM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Didn’t intend to alarm fan’s about D.Moore’s health. I spoke D.Moore at the open scrimmage. He was smiling and laughing. Indicated his injury was minor and he would be back to practice soon. Don’t know if he practiced this week. Assume Hamilton starting today because he practiced with first team this week. Will try to find-out if he played today.

I’ve said many times that Rose and NPL main strength is their ability to get to the hoop.

I do think Scott should start at PG because the team needs someone in the line-up who can both get to the hoop and hit the open shot. Scott can do that,Alani can’t, as Alani can only shoot from outside. of


But, as you point out, McKie is considering brining Scott off the bench for firepower. If so, i don’t even though if he would sub Scott in for Alani or Rose.

If Scott comes off the bench, it may well be that he’ll come in with Temple down points.,that makes no sense. But I may be dead wrong. That, in fact, the team does quite well with Alani starting.

Have to wait and see. Have no problem seeing McKie stet different combinations.,

Alani is a very skilled player. Can shoot the ball extremely well, and is the best in the conference in committing the fewest turnovers and making the most steals.Just want to see him shoot more and not be overwhelmed by Rose and Nate. That is less likely to happen with Scott playing in his stead. And even though he’s short st 5’10,” and yes he’s 5’10,” the perception of him is that he’s a weakness on defense.

Stats show that’s not true. As team performed better on defense slightly then when Alston played, probably because when Alston played, he made more turnovers than steals, and when Alani played, he made many more steals than turnovers.Also, team ran well on offense with him at the helm. I don’t challenge stats unless compelling reason to do so.

I just hope McKie see’s that. Only when we see how team performs, should we consider a player’s playing time.

I just fear that if the team fails when Alani starts, he’ll be blamed when in fact, Rose or NPL, or someone else was the culprit.

My feedback by reliable and knowledgeable bb players who have witnessed practices is that Scott is the best player on the team. If so, he should start. From what I witness in two games, he’s a natural PG. He’d be an assist machine which you love, as he plays bb the right way.

He was forced to dominate shooting at KSU because they had few other good shooters. That’s not the case at Temple. That’s not his natural game. Wasn’t in HS. Not a selfish player at all, but doesn’t like being out by opthers on the court, nor should he.

When Scott has played with Alani on the second unit most times they kick the first team’s ass. The two should play together at times. That’s why if Alani starts like to see Scott sub-in for Rose or NPL. Want to see if McKie would do that.

With McKie being a new coach HC, he shouldn’t be wedded to keeping Rose and Nate as starters, but he is. Just hope it works out.

Want Temple’s best shooters to shoot the most.Moorman and Scott are probably Temple’s best best scorers. Would like to see Moorman, Scott, Nate, Dunn, and Rose clustered near the same number of fga's, unless one is on and another off..D.Moore, Dunn, Hamilton, and Alani may challenge as well. Do think we’ere going to see some surprises.,scorers.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2021 05:19 AM by Miggy.)
10-19-2019 04:19 AM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
We have both been frustrated by Temple’s play the last two years, as HC FD favored upperclassman over better upperclassman such as NPL, Moorman, and Perry. As both should have played more their freshmen year in conference play, and by them failing to do so, Temple finished the season with a 17-16 record.

It’s my view that Temple has better shooters than Rose and NPL.

Moorman, Scott, Alani, Hamilton, D. Moore, and Dunn are far superior shooters. Don’t understand why you don’t want Moorman to take the most shots, nor Alani to play much when both shot the highest three percentages at 42.4 percent in conference play. And most of their fga’s are three’s.

It appears, you prefer Rose and NPL to take the most fga!s.

Feel strongly if Temple doesn’t get it’s shot distribution right among players straightened and correct this year, Temple going nowhere in future years.

Moorman is shooting a lot now, and should continue to. Probably one the reason he named on of Temple’s three captains.

It’s Moorman that scores at tthe rim 80 percent of the time. Rose doesn’t . .

It’s D.Moore who shot 70 percent on two’, and at the rim. Rose doesn’t

It’s Hamilton who shoots 60 percent on two’s, and at the rim.Rose doesn’t.

You say that Moorman should take the pressure off of Rose and NPL. Why should Rose be the focal point of the offense? Even you’ve said that you’re disappointed Rose hasn’t reached his potential.

Rose and NPL are both good players, but it’s time that Rose not be the focal point of the offense, Temple made the same mistake last season by relying on the big three-Alston, Rose, and NPL.

Also, don’t want to see Rose averaging 2.5 turnovers in games this season. If he handles ball less, turnover should go down. Like to see his fga’s reduced from 14-shots per game to 10 fga’s per game. Should cut down on his turnovers and hopefully he’ll be a more efficient shooter. Want to see him take no more than 10 fga’s, unless he hits five of his first 10 shots.

I’ve been pondering the question of how much Alston will be missed. I went back and looked at his stats and overall in conference play he played much better against bad teams, and not so good against good teams. He often shot poorly, and kept doing so when there were better shooters on the court.

Don’t want to see that this season. Want best shooters shooting the most shots. If you don’t want to see a rebounding deficit that has to happen.

This team capable of getting to the NCAA tournament and going very far. Few teams have as may good three point shooters, guys who can get to the hoop, nor as many lock-down fenders.

I don’t see Rose and NPL as good shooters at all.

NPL much better than Rose is getting to the hoop.

When I watched Rose shoot three’s well in the Bahamas, I became more positive that he may change and turn his game around. But seeing him in Temple’s open scrimmage was disappointing. He should not be taking most shots. Not pleased that McKie has placed his trust in him and moved him once again to the forefront.

Only think his injury effected him the last few games. He has basically said the same thing. His stats are inconsistent game to game, he’s been that way his whole career. he wouldn’t be doing high flying dunks as he did repeatedly, if one’s in a pain from a foot injury.

His taking almost as many shots as Alston, while shooting mostly 2’s and shooting them at only 43 percent, and taking excessive shots even though he’s missing them over and over again, is not what I want to see again this season. His refusal to rebound when Temple needed him to is inexcusable.

Clear he’s not a 35 mpg player as it’s clear he paced himself as some of his not shooting stats worse than when he played on 30 mpg the year before.

I chose not to ignore advance stats .that for three years straight he is the only player that the entire team performs with when he’s on the court.

NPL is an outstanding player. His offensive and defensive stats off the board.

Know you’re not big on Alani and Hamilton, but both have high positive offensive rating, and relatively good decisive ratings, and both reflect Temple does well when their on the court.

The same cannot be said for Rose as Temple does not perform well offensively overall when he plays.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2021 05:10 AM by Miggy.)
10-19-2019 08:03 AM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Last year, Alston started off hitting three’s at a high rate, but gradually his three point shooting dropped to 33 percent, or the equivalent to 50 percent on two’s in conference play, He also shot way more three’s than two’s.In retrospect, that was not wise as he shot his two’s at 55 percent.

Temple averaged 35.3 percent shooting on three’s in conference play. That was primarily do to both Moorman shooting 42.4 percent in conference play, while Alston, Rose, and NPL, who all shooting below 35 percent. Temple would have scored more points if both Moorman and Alani had shot three’s more.

What’s ironic is that HC FD said before the season that his goal was to have Temple shoot 37 percent on three’s. That goal would have been easily exceeded if Moorman and Alani had shot two or three times the number of three’s they shot.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2021 07:14 AM by Miggy.)
10-19-2019 12:02 PM
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