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Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
I personally think that Temple has in Nate, Scott, Moorman and Dunn, four players who are better right now, than Rose, ron both sides of the ball, with some others not that far behind, if behind. My view was fortified after watching all the Temple players who played both in the three games played in the Bahamas, and in the intra-squad scrimmages.
[/quote]

It's possible that you will turn out to be correct.

However, it's often hard to say which player is "better," because no two of them play the same position. Moorman may be a better PF, but Rose is a better wing, and Nate is the best defender and penetrator, and Scott may be the most effective passer and scorer.

They're all good. If Rose wasn't good, he wouldn't have been 2nd team all-AAC last season or first team this season.

I compare him to Mark Macon in a way, who you probably never saw play.

Macon was a McDonald's All-American 5 star player who came to John Chaney and asked Chaney if he could play at Temple. He won numerous accolades (player of year, etc.) and was one of Temple's all-time leading scorers.

However, statistically, Macon wasn't extremely impressive when it came to efficiency or FG%, at least in certain games when he would take 15 or 18 shots and only hit 5 or 6 of them.

The reason Macon was such an important player for Temple was that somebody needed to create his own shots on those teams, and Macon was the best shot creator. Few opponents could guard him successfully. He was just going to score 20-30 points a game, most games, and there wasn't anything anybody could do about it.

That's a little bit how Rose is. FG% isn't his strong suit, and having possession so much of the game, he's going to make some turnovers. But some teams need a Macon or a Rose to move beyond the ordinary. Macon made Temple extraordinary, almost single-handedly.

If a single player can do dazzling things and make the defense focus on him, he can help the team even if creating all those shots results in taking some ill-advised shots.

Every possession of the game, a team has to find a way to score. Having one athlete who can find a way to score when his teammates can't means that that player will put up a few clunkers, but at least his team got a shot off, and might get the rebound, which is sometimes better than not putting up any shots at all.

Maybe you don't agree. Sometimes, even I don't agree, because I often got frustrated when the ball kept going to Macon and a defending player was able to shut him down. But overall, without Macon, that team wouldn't have gone to the elite 8, and I believe that without Rose, this Temple team wouldn't be able to be as special as it might be able to be.

So that's what's great about Rose. He helps make the team great because he is unpredictable and hard to stop. There are extra pluses to his game that offset the occasional blunders. In most games, for every glitch, there is something spectacular.
 
10-15-2019 06:19 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-15-2019 07:50 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Temple opponents out roubounded Temple in conference games.

Rose was part of the problem as he did not rebound as well a NPL l, Temple’s other wing. NPL playing slightly less than Rose, averaged 4.1 rebounds per game in conference play, compared to Rose’s 3.8 rebounds per game playing 35.5 mpg.

Rose’s rebounding production actually declined from the year before when he played less minutes ( 30 mpg ), and garnered 4.1 rebounds per game in conference play.

This seems to indicate that Rose has been pacing himself, and HC McKie should consider lowering Rose’s playing time.

McKie has the additional option of subbing in for Rose, either Perry, Moorman, And Hamiton who are all better rebounders than Rose based on playing 40 mpg.

Totally agree about Rose's rebounding. He has never been a strong rebounder, and this has clearly contributed to some losses.

In contrast, NPL is an amazing rebounder for a guard of his size. The contrast between him and Rose is incredible.

All I can think of is that NPL is more muscular than Rose. QR is very lean, and doesn't have the muscle mass in his upper body to bang with opposing forwards.

Even before his injury, when he could often penetrate to the basket area, he didn't show the grit to post up for rebounds.

Going back through Temple's history, Mark Karcher, too, was a high scorer and an abysmal rebounder, and it hurt the team then too.

It could be possible that FD instructed Rose not to risk injury by banging for rebounds, or that he wanted Rose to play on the perimeter except when driving to the hoop.

Only other thought is that perhaps Rose had a history of being injured going for rebounds and thus has to be cautious so that he can remain healthy enough to play a whole season.

Bottom line is that, with NPL over-rebounding for a guard, the Owls back court as a unit isn't the main rebounding problem.

As I see it, Hamilton is the guy who is the major cause of our rebounding deficit last year. Rose might be #2 on the lists. Damion, JP, and Perry all failed to get as many rebounds as the team needed them to.

But yes, especially if Rose wants to play in the NBA, this season is his best opportunity to show that he is an impressive all-around player. If there was any "prima-donna" tendency in the past, this is his chance to step up and be "the man."
 
10-15-2019 08:49 PM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
I was short-sighted in suggesting that Rose not play so many minutes as Temple needs both his offense and defense.

Temple had a stellar record last season (2018-2019) in conference play, in part, because Temple was the third best team by forcing 259 opponent turnovers, while Temple only turned the ball over 203 times. That’s over three less turnovers per game. Such was accompanied bt Temple making 155 steals (16th best in nation) compared to opponents 103 steals.

But things changed dramatically in HC Mckie’s first season as HC. As in the 2019-2020 season, Temple’s forced turnovers declined 12 percent, from 259 to 222 opponent turnovers, and Temple ‘s turnover’s increased 10 percent from 203 to 222.

Steals go hand in hand with turnovers This past season, Temple’s steals declined to 134 steals in conference play, and opponents steals increased to 124 in conference games. Temple’s 3 more steals per game advantage from the season before had virtually disappeared.

Temple did so well winning the turnover battle during conference play in the 2018-2019 season, as Temple with Q.Rose, NPL, Alston, and Alani, were four of the best ball stealers in the nation. Q.Rose, NPL and Alani Moore. The only player to not return was Alston.

In the 2018-2019 season, Rose finished second in the conference in steals at 2.45 steals per 40 minutes, and NPL fifth in the conference as he averaged 1.65 steals per 40 minutes. Alani Moore averaged 2.4 steals per 40 minutes.

Temple lost Shizz Alston, the AAC’s seventh best ball stealer, but he was replaced by James Scott, who was the fifth best ball stealer in the A-Sun conference when he played for KSU. Scott averaged 2.17 steals per 40 minutes at KSU. That stat would have placed him third in the ACC right behind Q. Rose, who had 2.45 steals per 40 minutes.

Alston averaged 34 mpg and 1.4 steals per conference game, Scott this past season only averaged 20 minutes per game and .8 steals per game.

Temple committed more turnovers in the 2019-2020 season in conference play as it’s offense was sloppy and because McKie did not employ a pressure defense often enough, nor did Scott play as much as he should have, and both A.Moore and Scott were not used enough to apply pressure and thus create more steals. This A.Moore and Scott did not make as many steals per 40 minutes as they should have.

POST SEASON PROSCRIPT On TEMPLE TURNOVERS aND STEALS.

Temple went from committing less turnovers the the year before to committing more turnovers this past 2019-2020 season.

The main reason is that McKie did not play a pressure defense in conference play.

Such is clearly see in Alani Moore’s decline in steals. Even though Alani Moore played twice as much in 2018-2020 than he did the previous season, he saw his steals drop fro 1.4 per conference game to 1.2 per game. Playing twice as much he didn’t even average what he did the prior season.

In the 2019-2020 season, Scott made 1.6 steals per 40 minutes compared to Alston’s 1.6 steals per 40 minutes, but since Scott played far less than Alston did he made far fewer steals per game as Alston did.

Rose dropped from 2.45 steals per 40 minutes the season before to 2.2 steals this past season in conference play. NPL only dropped from 1.65 steals per 40 minutes to 1.6 steals this past season.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2021 11:16 AM by Miggy.)
10-16-2019 06:59 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Rose was part of the problem as he did not rebound as well a NPL l, Temple’s other wing. NPL playing slightly less than Rose, averaged 4.1 rebounds per game in conference play, compared to Rose’s 3.8 rebounds per game playing 35.5 mpg.

(quote)

The numbers break down differently when calculated per 40 minutes played.

Now, rather than comparing to NPL, let's compare him to Hamilton.

The results turn out to be a surprise to me:


Rose averaged 4.9 rebounds per 40 minutes. Hamilton averaged 5.9 rebounds per 40 minutes.

For a back court player, 5 rebounds per 40 minutes is generally considered par for the course.

For a front court player, 6 rebounds per 40 minutes is not considered high D1 level play.

So, the bottom line is that Rose hasn't been such a terrible rebounder, after all. Yes, he's not as good as NPL is as a rebounder, but he's about average for a back court player. You could argue that 4.9 rebounds in 40 minutes is low for a wing player, and I might agree with that, but most wing players do well to pull down more than 6 or 7 rebounds in 40 minutes.

But for a PF to only pull down 5.9 rebounds in 40 minutes is a major concern and limitation.

Bottom line is that Rose ought to get one more rebound per game, while Hamilton ought to bring down 2-3 more rebounds per game.

==========

We both agree that something has been wrong.

You've focused a bit more on player issues. I have focused more on coaching issues.

Player issues are always part of the game. It's easy enough to critique the players, but these guys are 18-22 years old, and perfection is unattainable. If they mess up, it's partly the coaches' responsibility to not have trained them better, or to have been a poor recruiter, or to give them playing time that they shouldn't have.

It is the coaches job to (a) recruit the right players, (b) to develop those players, © to deploy his players and rotate them so as to get the best bang for his buck, and (d) to game coach and make adjustments to help his players win as many games as they can.

If Rose didn't do certain things as well as others (or if Hamilton didn't, etc.), the coach shouldn't have put them on the court, or should have done a better job of developing and training them.

In the same way that you see gaps in Rose's game, I see gaps in Alani's and Hamilton's and really every player's game.

I saw FD do a much better of coaching than he did last season, and I know he was more capable at one time. All I can say is that he was coaching a couple years past his prime.

The only other thing I can think of to say is that some guys are scorers and not the best rebounders, for whatever reasons.

Some guys are finesse players, rather than physical players.

I'm much more worried about Hamilton's rebounding problem than Rose's, and I fear that he is a finesse player who avoids contact.

If true, then maybe Temple won't make it into the next two NCAA tournaments. In a lot of ways, Hamilton's ability to play near the basket may be the most important factor. It wouldn't be true if we had an abundance of bigs on the team, but we don't. Hamilton is the second tallest big on the team.

But I don't want to keep harping on Justyn's rebounding, other than to note that his rebounding hasn't impressed you either in the early pre-season scrimmages.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-16-2019 08:20 PM by jedclampett.)
10-16-2019 08:03 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-16-2019 06:59 AM)Miggy Wrote:  While I suggested in a previous post that it may be this season for Rose to play less minutes because his rebounding ell off, I may have been short-sighted in suggesting that. As Rose did certain things in conference play that suggests otherwise.

The above is one indication that Temple has a terrific roster..

Your paragraphs on Temple's steals and turnover ratios are right on - I mean, I agree completely.

If you subtract Temple's rebounding deficit from Temple's surplus of possessions due to better ball control and more steals, I believe that Temple ended up in the black. I think you've pointed this out before, which is why the rebounding deficit didn't bother you as much as it did me.

All I can add is that - imagine if Temple didn't have a rebounding deficit - then Temple's superior ball control, perimeter defense, and steals would probably cause Temple to end up with a much higher scoring surplus per game.

Last season, Temple's average margin of victory was about 2.5 ppg, if I recall correctly.

Strip away the rebounding deficit, and Temple's average margin of victory would have been closer to 7.5 ppg.

Beyond that, if Temple had a 2.5 rebounding surplus, Temple could been an outstanding team, with an average margin of victory close to 10 ppg.

==========

So, yes, Temple's ball control, stealing, and turnover margin may once again save the team's bacon quite often this season. My only point is that Temple could be a great team if they can do that and rebound the ball about as well as their average competition this season.

Somebody (on the coaching staff) is going to have to do some serious motivating in order to get that done. BTW, when our guys were motivated enough, such as against Houston at home, there was no rebounding deficit.
 
10-16-2019 08:32 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-16-2019 10:40 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Thanks for you response, and expanding the discussion to include Temple’s winning the steal battle, and opponents winning the offensive rebounding battle over Temple last season in conference play.

Basically, the total number of rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks, minus turnovers is more important than shooting stats, such as FG% and FT%.

The reason is that, as we many would agree, the # of possessions determine the number of points a team can score. Winning the possession battle is often key to winning a game, especially when also playing tight enough defense to reduce opponent's FG%.

Yes, controlling the ball, avoiding turnovers, and causing turnovers are huge factors, but being out-rebounded can negate those factors.

The fact that Owls had some good rebounding must-win games against teams like Houston and USF tells us that the problem wasn't that the Owl players couldn't rebound well. The problem was that too often, they didn't have the high motivation to rebound well.

Motivation was better last year than in previous seasons, but it was still too inconsistent.

I expect Aaron McKie to be a much better motivator, and to be more focused than FD was on maximizing possessions by not allowing rebounding to be a continuing problem.

I also expect him to work harder, because as he's said, he was always somewhat of a "gym rat," coming up through the years, and he showed incredible, but quiet toughness as a player.

Thus, my guess is that, under McKie, the possession advantage may increase significantly, compared to last season. If that happens, and if McKie develops the key game coaching skills, the team might be more successful than it was last season.
 
10-17-2019 01:00 AM
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Post: #27
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
p.s.

No one else has jumped into this thread yet, but congratulations!

This thread now has 580 views. So some folks are interested.
 
10-17-2019 01:02 AM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Nice that close to 100 fans are interested in reading about Temple men’s bb.

We left off discussing Temple garnering nearly 3 extra scoring opportunities in 2018-2019, by forcing opponents to make 3 more turnover per game than Temple did, which also resulted in opponents having three fewer scoring opportunities.

Opponents did average three more offensive rebounds per game than Temple. It’s far more important to win the turnover battle with opponents than the offensive rebound battle. That’s because steals are scored at a much higher rate than offensive rebounds do as offensive rebounds as they are moe often contested on put-backs.

Also, unlike steals, a team on one possession can have multiple put-backs that don’t show-up in the box score.

A box score may show that one team had ten offensive rebounds, and the other team had six. It may well be that the team with 10 offensive rebounds had multiple offensive rebounds on one possession. One can’t see that in the box score.

So, given that offensive rebounds are often contested and steals less so, the turnover margin is more significant than the offensive rebounding margin, and offensive rebounds should be given less weight.

In Temple’s wins over UConn during the 20-18-2019 , Temple was out-rebounded by 11 offensive rebounds, yet Temple won by 16 points, as Temple shooting the lights out determined the outcome of the game.

Temple won many games where they were out rebounded on the offensive boards, once again, indicating that the offensive rebounding differential is not as significant as the turnover differential in determining the outcome of games.

Offensive rebound have had little significance in Temple’s losses last season. As in 8 of Temple’s 10 losses, Temple had more offensive rebounds than opposing teams did.

In Temple’s two other losses to Villanova and Cincinnati, Temple was out-rebounded by 6 and 14 offensive rebounds respectively, Temple led in both games with 5 minutes to play, an indication that opponents advantage on the boards were not a big factor in Temple’s two losses.

In 18 conference games opponents had 60 more offensive rebounds than Temple did, or about three per game in conference play. If Temple this season finds some way to get some combination of more offensive or defensive rebounds, opponents advantage on the offensive end will disappear.

But one should be aware that with the advent of small ball by Hall of Fame NBA HC Don Nelson, teams have made an intentional calculation to allow opponents to garner more offenvie rebounds in a game.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2021 11:40 AM by Miggy.)
10-17-2019 12:53 PM
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Miggy Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
I’m totally pumped about this team and here’s why. Temple has seven three-point shooters in Rose, NPL, A.Moore, Scott, Perry, Moorman, and JPL. No AAC roster is even close.

It’s imperative that Moorman and Alani, two of Temple’s better three-point shooters, if their on, shoot often, as both shot above 40 percent on three’s
last season.

With Temple having so many good shooters, hopefully there should be more balance among players scoring the ball. If so, opponents can’t defend and double up on three-point shooters

Last season, in conference play, Temple took 40-percent of it’s all it’s FGA’s as three’s, and hopefully that will increase as Temple needs to drastically reduce the high percentage of two point jump shots it takes as they’re shot at a a low-rate.

It’s good to shoot more three’s as Temple shot 49.8 percent on 2’s last season in conference play, while Temple shot 34 percent on three’s which is the equivalent to shooting 52.5 percent on two’s.

Fear that Mckie will favor certain players as occurred last season, and that cost Temple some wins. Hard to win when a player’s shot is off, and he keeps jacking them up. Even more so, when two players do that.

Last season, Temple averaged shooting 35 percent on three’s in the conference, fourth best. Temple held opponents to shooting 29.6 percent on three’s, third best the conference.

Moorman And Alani shot 42.4, (Mooorman 41 percent for the season) , are the two highest three-point percentages in the AAC, ahead of UConn’s Christian Vidal ( l40 percent).

Transfer James Scott joins Temple, having last shot 38.5 percent on three’s in conference play at KSU, and after being told to not rush, shot 42.5 percent in the last month of February on 17-39 shooting. Would have been 48 percent of three of those fga’s had not been shot from half-court at the end of halves.

Dre Perry looked very good shooting three’s in the Bahamas and in the recent intrasquad scrimmage. Now healthy, can see him shooting three’s at 36.7 percent as he did conference play his freshman year. Has odd delivery shooting ball from the left side of his face, but it works for him.

Q. Rose shot 34.8 percent on three’s in conference play last season. Hope he can do that this season.

NPL shot three’s at 34.7 percent in conference play. He shoots two’s and three’s at the same equivalency. Since he gets to the foul-line more driving to the hoop, it’s best he mostly shoot’s more two’s.

POST SEASON PROSCRIPT:

In conference play Moorman shot 26 percent on three’s, down from 41 percent the season before, Rose and NP
NPL each shot 31 percent on three’s down from :4 percent the season before, SCott shot but 25 percent on three’s, compare to his shooting 3’s at 36 percent at his previous school.

The only players to shoot three’s well were A.Moore, 42.9 percent, JPL 41 percent and Perry 34 percent and JPL.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2021 11:53 AM by Miggy.)
10-17-2019 03:48 PM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
OT, but please consider as we continue the dialogue.

This one thread may or may not be the ideal place to post everything of interest.

I could post all my thoughts about TUMBB on this thread, but with the long posts and all, this thread might be pretty unaccessible or intimidating to others who might hesitant to jump into such a detailed conversation.

Here's my idea:

When the season starts, let's set up a thread to discuss each game. That might be much more accessible - and helps to keep various discussions separate from each other.

Also, I have started a thread on Temple recruiting, and would like to discuss it with you and any others who might be interested. I would appreciate it if you would post on recruiting topics over there. Thanks.

I'm going to write a short post over there now, because the other board contains a lot of recent discussions and updates - things are heating up on the recruiting front, as November approaches.

==============

The point is that this thread could easily grow to 1,000 pages, and at that point, I doubt if anyone else would jump in. Also, writing separate threads would help to keep topics distinct. There are already a number of things you've written that I haven't had time to respond to. If you post on some different threads, it helps keep the topics separate, so it becomes less confusing.

==============

This could still be an omnibus thread that includes dialogues about the team as a whole, but let's add some more, ok?

I'd like to suggest having additional threads about these topics:

Temple Players (performance, health issues, other aspects): Move discussions of specific players over there.

Temple Coaching: We've already discussed this quite a bit on this thread, but would like to put future posts on coaching over there. There will be more and more of these, following announcements and press conferences or releases, and once the season starts. Would like to dosciss each member of coaching staff, eventually.

Pre-season (current; optional) I'd like to see discussions of the pre-season on a different thread, but if you feel strongly about it, they could stay on this omnibus thread.

Schedule discussion: A place to talk about upcoming Temple games on the schedule. We could talk about matchups, strategy issues, news about other teams (who's up, who's down), and where TUMBB may be gravitating vis a vis their schedule (higher, lower, etc.?).

Post-season considerations: To discuss how things are shaping up for the post-season. This topic gets hotter and hotter as the season goes on.

Game discussions: New thread for each game, like with the other message boards.

Other related topics (optional - a grab-bag category)

TUMBB news, developments (optional): Any new developments that arise with respect to the team, staff, etc.


============

Please let me know what you think of this.

If you're inclined to start a thread on a specific topic, I will respond there.

If you get a chance to take a look at the new recruiting thread, I'll contribute over there, further, if you or anyone responds.

Thanks.
 
10-17-2019 05:43 PM
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Post: #31
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-17-2019 08:57 PM)Miggy Wrote:  I think pre-season should stay here. Not sure if individual games should stay here or not.

I agree coaching staff, recruiting, schedule, post-season discussions, should on a separate thread. Although, a short blurb ok here occasionally. Would like to hear from readers for their input.

I myself find a very long thread with a lot of long posts hard to follow after awhile, and look forward to having some more specific threads that are easier to follow over time.

Thanks for responding to the recruiting thread, and hope you'll respond to some of those specific threads we're talking about going forward.
 
10-18-2019 05:57 AM
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Post: #32
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-17-2019 09:03 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Will post more on Temple men’s bb tomorrow.


Looking forward to receiving this weekend some feedback from Georgetown-Temple secret scrimmage this Saturday. .


Great. Looking forward to your report. Enjoy the scrimmage!
 
10-18-2019 05:58 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
In Temple’s 2018-2019 winning season, Moorman shot a whopping 80 percent at the rim, Hamilton 78 percent, D.Moore 70 percent. Scott shot in the low 60’s at the rim at his prior school and Perry shot 58 percent at the rim. That’s terrific scoring near the rim.


In conference play, Temple shot 49.8 percent on 2’s, fourth best in the conference.

McKie said he intends to push the tempo and fast break more, which should lead to easy hoops in transition and higher player 2-point percentages. But such didn’t happen as McKie implemented an half-court offense that was not as good as the season before and resulted in poor shooting. As a result players who shot well at the rim the season before, saw their shooting percentage at the rim.

POST-SEASON PRO-SCRIPT

Mckie didn’t put in an effective half court offense, nor did Temple run, and so Temple saw it’s two point shooting drop from 49.8 percent on two’s in conference play decline to 43.6 percent on two this past season in conference play.

It appears that Temple’s half court sets were far worse under MCKie than under Dunphy. Such was compounded by Temple playing mostly half court sets Temple did’t score as much at the rim as Temple was running far less than the did the season before.

Moorman is the best example of Temple’s decline scoring at the rim. As Moorman fell from shooting a whopping 80 percent at the rim the season before to shooting just 46 percent at the rim this past season.

Rose dropped from shooting 67 percent at the rim to shooting53 percent at the rim this past season.

Nate dropped from shooting 62 percent at the rim the season before to shooting only 52 percent this past season.

Hamilton dropped from shooting 76 percent at the rim the season before to shooting just 62 percent this past season. Ironically transfer to Kent State he returned to shooting 76 percent at the rim diluting the 2020-2021 season.

It’s foolish to blame players for their decline in play from one season to the next. It was a new HC.
 
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2021 12:14 PM by Miggy.)
10-18-2019 06:27 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-18-2019 06:27 AM)Miggy Wrote:  With the colleges game having evolved into teams shooting three’s and driving to the hoop, Temple’s roster has been constructed with that in mind.

Some, but not all of Temple's roster may have been constructed that way. In fact, FD constructed most of the current roster, and he didn't construct a high tempo team, so I would say that the team is being constructed for high tempo, but not all the parts will fall into place for another year or two - probably two years. So we may have to wait two years to see how well it works when completely reconstructed with the quicker athletes - White, Dunn, JPL, and Quincy A., for example.

McKie will try to run the offense that way, and time will tell how well it works. If it's successful, that's one thing, but most run-and-gun teams are too one-dimensional to make it into the top 25.

Back in the day, Loyola Marymount (Coach Paul Westhead) ran the highest tempo teams in college basketball. They often scored over 100 ppg, and were exciting to watch. But there was a problem: The better opponents were able to slow down the game and take advantages of weaknesses in the Loyola teams (they didn't play great defense and only excelled in a transition game). That was an experiment that ultimately failed, once coaches figured out how to beat that style of play, and few other teams tried the same approach.

Was Temple able to win some fast-paced games last season? Yes, they did, for example, in high scoring games vs the high energy USF team, mostly because USF's play was too error-prone with modest FG%. But those were only 1 point victories.

I'm not sure that the current players can play their best at a fast tempo.
Nate and Alani can. Rose can, but needs extra rest. Damion and Moorman can, but only for short bursts. Overall, some of them can, while others can't for more than a couple of minutes.

Let's bear in mind, too, that higher tempo play can be associated with greater risk for injuries, and Temple's best unit is only an 8 man rotation, or 9 men when Dunn returns fully healthy. The injury to Dunn reminds us how damaging an injury can be to the team's fortunes.
 
10-18-2019 09:51 PM
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RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-18-2019 09:15 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Not sure if D.Moore has returned to practice.

Suspect that starting line-up will be Alani, Nate, Rose, Moorman, and Hamilton.

Hamiton will have tough time, as Georgetown is big, very big.

Based on what i’ve seen, do hope Moorman earns the right to take the most field-goal attempts, especially since most of his shots are three- balls, and he shoots them at 40 percent plus.

Rose and NPL may struggle as both face major obstacles getting to hoop. Hope they don’t compensate by taking a lot of jumpers.

In my gut, I always want to see two jump shooters in the backcourt.

Ultimately, I think Temple’s,’ best line-up would be Scott, Dunn, NPL or Rose, and D.Moore. Like it because there would be few turnovers, and Temple would be deadly from the outside, and still get to the hoop.Doubt we’ll ever see it.

1. Damion's status:

Not a good sign if not practicing yet with 3 weeks to go, considering his history of foot injuries. Those injuries could kick up again, especially with high speed of play. Very concerned about the OOC schedule with Dunn and Damion both hampered by injuries.

2. Suspect starting line-up: Alani, Nate, Rose, Moorman, and Hamilton.

Hamilton may end up as a starter the season if Damion's history of injuries is going to limit his play. I think he and Moorman can play well together, but not so confident about any combinations with Perry or Parks. Losing Damion could end up losing some winnable games.

Alani as a starter? I see him as a very limited role player with an incomplete offensive skill set and difficulties defending taller guards.

Maybe the HC wants to see Scott come in off the bench and give the team a jump start, but our best back court is definitely Nate, Rose, and Scott. If Alani plays more than 20 mpg, the team's productivity will lag significantly.

3. "Hamilton will have a tough time."

He very well may, but he's going to have a tough time the rest of his career until he learns how to play on the interior and accepts that role.

He's lean, it's true, but tall, athletic and muscular enough to play near the hoop. Got to get tough. "When the going gets tough, the tough get going."

We had a player named Tim Perry who was of somewhat similar build, but he became a truly dominant interior player and major shot blocker. It can be done. "Be the man, Ham."

4. "Georgetown is big, very big."

This is likely to be a problem for Temple until Coach McKie starts to recruit a sufficient number of big men.

The best D1 teams are well stocked with 6'9" and taller players who are athletic and able to dominate the basket area on both ends. Temple has two 6'9" or taller players, and one is not yet practicing. Next season, Temple will only have a player at that height, and the following season, Temple's tallest players will be only 6'8" (Parks & Forrester), unless McKie can recruit some true big men by then.

Any team without a single 6'9"+ player is unlikely to make it far beyond the round of 32 in the NCAA tournament.

5. Moorman - most FGAs?

With his height and shooting ability, could be possible, but he was so very reluctant to shoot last season, I don't expect him to take the most shots. Something like 10 to 12 shots per game would definitely help, though, would take scoring pressure off the back court players, and would prevent defenses from over-defending the guards/wings.

6. Rose and NPL struggle to get to the basket (?)

I don't see that as a big problem. Yes, Rose struggled in conference play, but that was when he was injured. In the prior seasons and OOC play last season, he was a brilliant penetrator to the hoop, although he did turn the ball over too often or failed to finish at times.

Nate's strong suit is penetrating toward the basket, it seems to me, and he is a good finisher. Intermediate range shooting is less consistent, and his 3 pt shot developed quite a bit.

7. "always want to see two jump shooters in the backcourt."

I don't think two is enough, because it's too easy for an opponent to shut down perimeter offense with only two jump shooters.

In fact, Temple wants to have four perimeter shooters much of the game (NPL, Rose, Scott, & Moorman). It's very hard to defend the perimeter against 4 good distance shooters.

The only reason Temple had success on offense last season was that NPL developed into a good perimeter shooter, so that Temple had 3 good backcourt jump shooters to defend against.

8. Ultimately, I think Temple’s,’ best line-up would be ... Scott, Dunn, NPL, Rose, and D.Moore.

That could be Temple's best lineup if D. Moore is healthy enough to play near 100%.

Here are some other good lineups for Temple:

Before Dunn returns:

1) Scott, NPL, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton.....that's about it.


After Dunn returns:

1) Scott, NPL, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton

2) Scott, NPL, Rose, Dunn, & Moorman/Damion/Hamilton

3) Scott, Dunn, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton

4) Scott, NPL, Dunn, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton

5) Dunn, NPL, Rose, Moorman, & Damion/Hamilton


This illustrates, dramatically, how many more options Coach McKie will have when Dunn returns, assuming of course that Dunn comes back and is able to play at 100% in a way reminiscent of the way NPL and Rose played in their freshman seasons.

Mathematically, quintupling the number of best lineup possibilities may multiply, in turn, the likelihood of Temple victories when Dunn returns.
 
10-18-2019 10:51 PM
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RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
Confirmed that Temple beat Georgetown by 1-point in a scrimmage. No other info at this time..
 
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2021 01:42 PM by Miggy.)
10-19-2019 07:26 PM
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RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
It's my view that Temple has much better shooters than Rose and NPL, (who each shot about 34% FG3%).

Moorman, Scott, Alani, Hamilton, D. Moore, and Dunn are superior shooters. Don’t understand why you don’t want Moorman to take the most shots, nor Alani to play much when both shot the highest three percentages at 42.4 percent in conference play.

It appears, you prefer Rose and NPL to take the most fga!s.

===============

1. When you refer to "shooters," I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you referring to FG2%, FG3%, FT%, TSP?

One approach is to go with the statistics for each category - - whatever the numbers show for last season would determine "best shooters."

I don't think that there is necessarily a statistical category for best overall shooter, other than true shooting percentage, and I'm not quite sure if everyone would agree it's the best index.

Bottom line is: Best "shooter" depends on which type of shooting we're referring to.


2. Are there better shooters than QR and NPL? Definitely, but it depends on the category.

As you pointed out, Alani and Moorman both hit a higher % of 3 point shots then QR and NPL did.

However, the .348/.347 FG3% of QR and NPL during conference play was quite good. Note that First Team AAC Shizz Alston shot .333 during conference play - so both QR and NPL shot a higher FG3% than Shizz did.

Why? Because it is greater than a FG2% of .500.

For the season, NPL led all guards with a FG2% of .510. Rose's was .464.


3. I don't prefer QR and NPL to take the most shots. It would be ok with me if Scott takes more shots, and if JP Moorman takes the second most shots.

However, while Scott might take more shots, J.P.'s history was to take too few shots. The same has been true of Alani, across all 3 seasons.

My guess is that QR and NPL will do as they have done before, and that Scott will join them as the 3 most frequent shooters, because Scott has always been a high frequency shooter.

I don't expect Alani or Moorman to take a huge number of shots, simply because they never have in the past.

They have both been very cautious shooters, only letting a shot go if they are wide open with a clear look at the basket, or if they have to chuck the ball up with less than 3 seconds on the shot clock.

QR and NPL take a lot more shots, because somebody on the team has to, and their coach gave them the green light to do so. Their FG% isn't the highest on the team, because they are able or encouraged to create a shot or shoot even when they're not wide open.

So it's only in that limited sense that QR and NPL might be among the best shooters - - i.e., because their coach wanted those two guys to put up the most shots. In his view, that was his best chance to win games.

=============

It's a simple judgment call:

Do you consider someone the best shooter because they hit the highest percentage of their shots, even if they rarely shoot the ball?

or

Do you consider the shooters who score the most points the best shooters because they are fearless and creative enough to take a number of lower probability shots and hit a surprisingly high % of their lower probabiity shots?

Some will make the call one way and others will make the opposite choice.

There is probably no correct answer in these matters.
 
10-20-2019 01:57 AM
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RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-19-2019 07:26 PM)Miggy Wrote:  Confirmed that Temple beat Georgetown by 1-point. No other
info at this time..

That strikes me as being pretty impressive and encouraging, if both HCs played their starters and bench players in roughly equal measure.

If it was played in D.C., I would have expected the Hoyas to "win" the scrimmages, since it was a road game for the Owls.

Would love to see the box score or read some highlights.

Is "bombs away" Moorman putting up 15 points per game, perhaps?

Also, it suggests that the Owls might not have had a terrible rebounding deficit, despite the Hoyas having taller interior players. If so, that would be outstanding news!
 
10-20-2019 02:03 AM
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RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
...in conference play Temple averaged 35.3 percent shooting three’s.
That was do to Moorman and Alani shooting 42.4 percent in conference play., and not Alston, Rose, and and NPL, who all shot below 35 percent.

This demonstrates clearly that Temple would have scored more points if both Moorman and Alani had shot three’s more often they did and they had shot them more than Rose, Nate, and Alston did. This was obvious as Moorman shot 41 percent on three’s for the whole season yet shot few shots.

What’s ironic is that HC FD said before the season that his goal was to have Temple shoot 37 percent on three’s. That goal would have been easily exceeded if Moorman and Alani had shot two or three times the number of three’s they shot. Not having those who shot a higher percentage on three's cost Temple wins, as Alston and Ride has some bad three-point shooting games.

My main point this can not be allowed to repeat itself this season. Given Moorman’s and Alani’s ‘s stellar season shooting three’s , they both should more three’s Rose and NPL do, from the outset of the season than Rose and NPL do. And the ultimate pecking order should be based on merit, not favoritism.


============================================

I get your point, but I do not expect Alani to shoot more threes than QR will, although Moorman might.

Alani has rarely made more than 3 FG3A per game over the past 3 seasons. Last season, he averaged 1.9 FG3A in conference play.

In comparison, Rose took 4.9 and NPL took 2.7 FG3A per game in conference play last season.

J.P. Moorman is a different story. He averaged 3.3 FG3A in conference play, which was more than NPL took. His 3.3 FG3A was only a notch or two lower than Rose's 4.9 per game. All he'd have to do would be to take 1.6 more FG3As per game to match QR's 4.9 last season.

===================

It wouldn't bother me if Alani caught up with NPL, or if Moorman passed QR on this statistic in the coming season.

It seems much more likely that Moorman could end up in a virtual tie for the most 3 point shots per game with either Scott or Rose than that Alani would take twice as many 3 point shoths as he took last season.

It's not that Alani is timid, although FD might possibly have discouraged him from shooting unless wide open. It has more to do with his diminutive height, which makes it a lot easier for opposing defenders to block his view of the basket or block his shot with the wave of a hand.

In Moorman's case, the numbers show that he did take more 3 point shots than two of Temple's guards did, so he wasn't extremely hesitant to put up perimeter shots. If he was, it may have been because FD discouraged him shooting more than he did - but I have no info on that.

What makes Moorman's FG3A seem much too low is the fact that Shizz, by comparison, put up 8.7 three point attempts per game in conference play.

===================

One thing we would probably agree on is that some players are going to have to ratchet up the number of 3FGA per game, to compensate for the fact that the team lost its leading three point shooter in terms of the number of shots taken.

My guess is that Rose might increase from 4.9 to 5.9 or so, maybe Alani increases to 2.5 or so, perhaps NPL might increase to 3 or 3.5, and Moorman could increase to 4.5 to 5 or higher, if he gets the green light.

That still wouldn't make up for Alston's 8.7 per game, but the gap might be filled by Scott or by the combo of Scott and Dunn.
 
10-20-2019 02:25 AM
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RE: Temple men’s bb 2019-2020
(10-20-2019 12:44 PM)Miggy Wrote:  The problem last season in conference play is that Moorman and Alani took fga’s once every 4 minutes or so when they were on the court. They should have shot more often as they converted 3’s at a higher rate than other Temple players, and a higher rate than anyone else in AAC. They shot three’s at an identical 42.4 percent, which is equivalent to shooting a whopping 63.4 percent on 2’s.

Their not shooting very often was not their choice as Temple’s big three Alston, Rose, and NPL were Temple’s HC’s preferred shooters.

So, it’s not how often they shot three’s last season, it’s more imperative they shoot three’s often this season given they shoot three’s better than any other returnee.


I mostly agree about Moorman. FD could and probably should have encouraged him to put up 1 or 2 more 3 point attempts per game, because that would have loosened up the defenders on the back court players.

Will he increase from 3.3 to 8.7 three point attempts per game? Possibly, but it seems more likely that McKie will encourage him to take closer to 5 or 6 FG3A/game.

I'm expecting Temple's guards to once again score ~55-60 ppg. Coach McKie seems to want to score a few more ppg this season with a higher tempo offense - let's say the goal is closer to 78-80 ppg.

To score that many points, Temple's big men (C, PF) would have to score ~ 20 to 24 ppg on average, which should be possible. As a starter, Moorman might be able to score 10-12 ppg in 25 mpg, assuming that Perry plays the other 15 mpg as backup PF. At the PF position, Perry could probably score 5 ppg. Add his and Moorman's points, and the two PFs could increase their scoring to 14-15+ ppg. That would really help the Owls win some games, especially on nights when back court scoring might sag a bit.

Another possibility is that Moorman himself could score 12-15 ppg, with the two PFs averaging 18-20 ppg. That would make the Owls very tough to beat by all but the best opponents. Some teams have had PFs that have combined for 18-20 ppg, so this is within the realm of possible.

The Centers, I assume, will average ~11-13+ ppg, which would result in total PF+C scoring in the 23-25+ ppg range. Put that together with 55+ ppg from the back court, and the Owls seem likely to score 78-80+ ppg, on average. This seems like an overestimate, and may be too high if Dunn doesn't score many points, but it's only a few ppg more than last season.

====================

I think that Alani's situation is very, very different from Moorman's.

While it's true that he is a good three point shooter, he has rarely scored more than 10 ppg, and averaged about 5 ppg last season.

Alani isn't a very capable perimeter defender, due to his short stature, and so his minutes have had to be limited. Last season, Alani played ~15-20 mpg as the main backup for Alston, NPL, and partial backup for Rose, or occasionally when Temple went with 4 guards.

This season, his minutes will again be limited for the same reason - - the crucial importance of perimeter defense. Since most of us expect Scott to play in the 30-35 mpg range, Alani's minutes are unlikely to increase and may be more likely to decrease significantly, especially when Dunn begins to play significant minutes in the back court.

For example, we might see something like this by mid-season:

Scott 33 mpg, NPL 34 mpg, Rose 32 mpg, Alani 11 mpg, Dunn 11 mpg

The way you have described Dunn, it might be possible for him to play more like 15+ mpg. If so, most of that playing time will probably be diverted from Alani to Dunn.

So, as I see it, Alani will be a utility/role player who will once again be the main back up guard until Dunn enters the core rotation. At that point, the back up guard minutes will gradually shift from Alani to Dunn, and Dunn might end up playing twice as many minutes as Alani does by the end of the season.

Certainly, Alani will still be the primary backup PG, and will appear intermittently when ball control becomes a top priority. Beyond that, if Dunn doesn't become an impact player this season, Alani could play 20 mpg much of the way.

There is an adage that goes like this: The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

It's actually a flimsy and flawed notion, but there is a measure of truth in it. Only rarely does an athlete become a completely differently player from one season to the next.

I don't know how many ppg you think Alani will score, but my educated guess is that he'll score somewhere between 5 and 10 ppg this season.
 
10-20-2019 10:14 PM
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