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Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1
Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
Scare tactic or plausible scenario?

ESPN reports that Manfred basically threatened the mayor of Oakland with that possibility if they didn't drop their lawsuit against Alameda County.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2780...-las-vegas
10-08-2019 04:07 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
Vegas sounds like a poor choice because they are just now getting two "major" pro franchises and it's a big question whether they'll even support those two well enough.

Portland and Sacramento are more likely choices.

But it's all a bluff until someone antes up about a billion dollars for a new MLB ballpark somewhere. That's why the A's and Rays don't have a lot of leverage with their local governments. Their owners can't make urgent threats until there's someplace that either has a MLB-quality ballpark or will have one within 2-3 years.
10-08-2019 05:20 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
It's a bluff imo. Vegas has supported the Golden Knights so far but their entertainment dollars will be stretched thin for a city its size when the Raiders come to town, when you add the cost of a ballpark (which would certainly need a roof) it's a bad proposition that's unlikely to get public funding. Not to mention how the area has so many transplants that they might run into the Rays/Marlins problem of having a bunch of locals with existing allegiance to other teams, which makes the prospects of a good attendance base dicey at best.

If they can't work it out in the East Bay I think it'd make sense to move them to San Antonio or Austin; both are young, growing, and Austin in particular has a lot of corporate wealth. Not a ton of competition from other sports leagues during the season except the first month or two with the Spurs and late season with football, when playoff excitement from the fall would help carry them through. You'd have to work out territorial rights for the Rangers and Astros TV deals though.

Wedge is right about the stadium situation. The only one out there that'd work on a temporary basis is Olympic Stadium in Montreal, but that won't happen with how much it'd throw the divisions out of whack. You'd either have to build a bare-cones Colt Stadium-like facility for a season or two, or suck up the lame duck period in their current home.
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2019 05:32 PM by Love and Honor.)
10-08-2019 05:26 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
the Vegas move is a bluff, but want I don't understand is the point of Oakland's lawsuit. That can't match what the A's can offer and owning all of the stadium is meaningless since that lack the ability to redevelop the site. It seems petty IMO.

My suggestion for a temp site would be Vancouver's BC Place Stadium. It has a Metrodome movable seating
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2019 08:20 PM by vandiver49.)
10-08-2019 07:19 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-08-2019 07:19 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  the Vegas move is a bluff, but want I don't understand is the point of Oakland's lawsuit. That can't what the A's can offer and owning all of the stadium is meaningless since that lack the ability to redevelop the site. It seems petty IMO.

The city council wants some concessions in exchange for not blocking the sale of the Coliseum site. It's not clear to me what they want. Maybe they want guarantees about how the Coliseum site would be redeveloped. I assume what the A's want is to maximize the redevelopment profit from that site in order to minimize the amount of debt they have to take on for building a new ballpark. Maybe what the city council wants would result in a less profitable redevelopment and effectively increase the new ballpark cost.

I have said for a long time that it wouldn't surprise me if the A's end up staying at the Coliseum site and extensively renovating the Coliseum into a baseball-only park like Disney did with Angel Stadium. Brand new ballparks are ridiculously expensive and have little potential to make money on events other than baseball, whereas the Warriors' new arena will have over 100 rent-paying events per year in addition to basketball games.
10-08-2019 07:51 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-08-2019 07:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I have said for a long time that it wouldn't surprise me if the A's end up staying at the Coliseum site and extensively renovating the Coliseum into a baseball-only park like Disney did with Angel Stadium. Brand new ballparks are ridiculously expensive and have little potential to make money on events other than baseball, whereas the Warriors' new arena will have over 100 rent-paying events per year in addition to basketball games.

I've seen you mention this before but the A's Coliseum purchase is what makes me agree with you. The new stadium proposal on the docks is far too whimsical to be built. But turning most of the parking in the area into office space to bankroll a thorough rehab of of the current location would be the very definition of moneyball.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2019 02:30 AM by vandiver49.)
10-08-2019 08:24 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
Whimsical is a good way to put it. My first reaction to the new stadium plan was, "C'mon, they're not going to build that," and I haven't changed my mind.
10-09-2019 01:50 AM
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flyingswoosh Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
In an area with so much money, it's absurd that MLB can't get them a new stadium. This is a franchise with a robust fan base, in a wealthy area that should be able to have a new stadium and a payroll of at least $150 million. In fact, there shouldn't be any teams with payrolls lower than $150 million.
10-09-2019 12:49 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-09-2019 12:49 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  In an area with so much money, it's absurd that MLB can't get them a new stadium. This is a franchise with a robust fan base, in a wealthy area that should be able to have a new stadium and a payroll of at least $150 million. In fact, there shouldn't be any teams with payrolls lower than $150 million.

We'll the A's owners IMO don't want to pay for a NEW stadium. Oakland can't pay for it as the city is broke and area that probably would build them a new facilities (San Jose) the team is barred from moving to due to non compete rules involves the SF Giants.

Rehabbing the Coliseum is really the only viable option on the table.
10-10-2019 05:04 AM
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GoodOwl Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-08-2019 07:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Brand new ballparks are ridiculously expensive and have little potential to make money on events other than baseball, whereas the Warriors' new arena will have over 100 rent-paying events per year in addition to basketball games.

They could do this:

[Image: cut.jpg]
Big Air at Braves Baseball Stadium
Quote:The Atlanta Braves and U.S. Ski & Snowboard are teaming-up to host Visa Big Air Presented by Land Rover at SunTrust Park on Friday, December 20 and Saturday, December 21. Visa Big Air, which will be a sanctioned FIS Snowboard and Freeski World Cup, will be the first event of its kind to come to Atlanta. This two-day event highlights Olympic winter competitions, featuring elite international men's and women's big air athletes.
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2019 09:15 AM by GoodOwl.)
10-12-2019 09:13 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-12-2019 09:13 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 07:51 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Brand new ballparks are ridiculously expensive and have little potential to make money on events other than baseball, whereas the Warriors' new arena will have over 100 rent-paying events per year in addition to basketball games.

They could do this:

[Image: cut.jpg]
Big Air at Braves Baseball Stadium
Quote:The Atlanta Braves and U.S. Ski & Snowboard are teaming-up to host Visa Big Air Presented by Land Rover at SunTrust Park on Friday, December 20 and Saturday, December 21. Visa Big Air, which will be a sanctioned FIS Snowboard and Freeski World Cup, will be the first event of its kind to come to Atlanta. This two-day event highlights Olympic winter competitions, featuring elite international men's and women's big air athletes.

Get that giant slip n slide off the grass!
10-12-2019 09:58 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
New A's/ballpark article in The Athletic today. Here's the unsurprising conclusion.

Quote:... while Las Vegas is an emotional trigger of sorts for sports fans in Oakland, it’s not a very large market (Charlotte is the biggest metro area from Manfred’s list of U.S. options, and it’s the 23rd largest), Montreal has already been floated as a part-time home for the Rays (which one could argue is another leverage play), and, perhaps most importantly, none of the cities Manfred mentioned as possible expansion destinations have plans to break ground on a new stadium.

If the current plan to embark on two separate, complicated projects in Oakland makes no headway over the next few months, the A’s and MLB will be forced to make a difficult choice. They can fight several legal battles in hopes of getting what John Fisher and Kaval want in terms of a Coliseum site money machine that allows the team to build a waterfront ballpark near Jack London Square, but a long, litigious battle is something Manfred clearly doesn’t want. They can make good on Manfred’s threat to relocate the team, but that would take away a potential expansion site or relocation destination for a team like the D-Backs. Or, they can work out a deal to build a new stadium at the Coliseum site.
https://theathletic.com/1287990/2019/10/...-terminal/

Also: The reference to the D-Backs is related to the D-Backs' owners using Las Vegas as leverage in their ballpark dispute with Phoenix. See https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/loca...n-1847183/
(This post was last modified: 10-13-2019 10:43 AM by Wedge.)
10-13-2019 10:38 AM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-13-2019 10:38 AM)Wedge Wrote:  New A's/ballpark article in The Athletic today. Here's the unsurprising conclusion.

Quote:... while Las Vegas is an emotional trigger of sorts for sports fans in Oakland, it’s not a very large market (Charlotte is the biggest metro area from Manfred’s list of U.S. options, and it’s the 23rd largest), Montreal has already been floated as a part-time home for the Rays (which one could argue is another leverage play), and, perhaps most importantly, none of the cities Manfred mentioned as possible expansion destinations have plans to break ground on a new stadium.

If the current plan to embark on two separate, complicated projects in Oakland makes no headway over the next few months, the A’s and MLB will be forced to make a difficult choice. They can fight several legal battles in hopes of getting what John Fisher and Kaval want in terms of a Coliseum site money machine that allows the team to build a waterfront ballpark near Jack London Square, but a long, litigious battle is something Manfred clearly doesn’t want. They can make good on Manfred’s threat to relocate the team, but that would take away a potential expansion site or relocation destination for a team like the D-Backs. Or, they can work out a deal to build a new stadium at the Coliseum site.
https://theathletic.com/1287990/2019/10/...-terminal/

Also: The reference to the D-Backs is related to the D-Backs' owners using Las Vegas as leverage in their ballpark dispute with Phoenix. See https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/loca...n-1847183/
.

Yes because Vegas has extra cash laying around to build a second indoor stadium. The D-backs owner is SOL in this instance.
10-13-2019 04:13 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
Update

10-23-2019 11:56 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-23-2019 11:56 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Update


So basically, the A's want to own the stadium outright?
10-23-2019 12:15 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-23-2019 12:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  So basically, the A's want to own the stadium outright?

Yes, they want to own the entire Coliseum site including the parking lots. They have a plan to develop that land and use the revenue from that development to finance construction of a new ballpark near downtown Oakland on the waterfront.

Even if/when they turn to remodeling the Coliseum instead, there is so much parking area that they could build a parking garage in less than half of the lot and develop the rest.
10-23-2019 12:52 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-23-2019 12:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 12:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  So basically, the A's want to own the stadium outright?

Yes, they want to own the entire Coliseum site including the parking lots. They have a plan to develop that land and use the revenue from that development to finance construction of a new ballpark near downtown Oakland on the waterfront.

Even if/when they turn to remodeling the Coliseum instead, there is so much parking area that they could build a parking garage in less than half of the lot and develop the rest.

I think that would be the best approach. No point in buying a stadium if you're just going to tear it down.

I'm not familiar with the area, but commercial development around ballparks can be very successful. The developments around SunTrust Park outside Atlanta have done pretty well.
10-23-2019 04:16 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-23-2019 04:16 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 12:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 12:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  So basically, the A's want to own the stadium outright?

Yes, they want to own the entire Coliseum site including the parking lots. They have a plan to develop that land and use the revenue from that development to finance construction of a new ballpark near downtown Oakland on the waterfront.

Even if/when they turn to remodeling the Coliseum instead, there is so much parking area that they could build a parking garage in less than half of the lot and develop the rest.

I think that would be the best approach. No point in buying a stadium if you're just going to tear it down.

I'm not familiar with the area, but commercial development around ballparks can be very successful. The developments around SunTrust Park outside Atlanta have done pretty well.

From what I gather about the surrounding neighborhood it's not a great area (mostly industrial or working class residential), but not South Chicago either. With how ridiculous the Bay Area real estate market is I can see them really building it up and bring it in demand, though a lot of that probably depends on its proximity to Downtown SF or Silicon Valley (guessing that it's no short trek across the bay to those hubs).
10-23-2019 09:23 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Will the Athletics move to Las Vegas?
(10-23-2019 09:23 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 04:16 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 12:52 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(10-23-2019 12:15 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  So basically, the A's want to own the stadium outright?

Yes, they want to own the entire Coliseum site including the parking lots. They have a plan to develop that land and use the revenue from that development to finance construction of a new ballpark near downtown Oakland on the waterfront.

Even if/when they turn to remodeling the Coliseum instead, there is so much parking area that they could build a parking garage in less than half of the lot and develop the rest.

I think that would be the best approach. No point in buying a stadium if you're just going to tear it down.

I'm not familiar with the area, but commercial development around ballparks can be very successful. The developments around SunTrust Park outside Atlanta have done pretty well.

From what I gather about the surrounding neighborhood it's not a great area (mostly industrial or working class residential), but not South Chicago either. With how ridiculous the Bay Area real estate market is I can see them really building it up and bring it in demand, though a lot of that probably depends on its proximity to Downtown SF or Silicon Valley (guessing that it's no short trek across the bay to those hubs).

Good proximity to SF, about 7 miles from there to the Bay Bridge. Not to Sili Valley; distance is not the biggest issue, it's that the traffic on the freeway between Oakland and SJ is hellacious.

Plan is probably to attract light industrial tech and/or biotech companies to locate there. Office space will yield a relatively high rent but will seem like a bargain compared to downtown SF. The BART station at the Coliseum theoretically makes it attractive for residential, but the lack of "nice" residential amenities in close proximity like parks, cute neighborhoods with shops/restaurants, etc. means that residential is probably not the most profitable use for the site.
10-23-2019 09:59 PM
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