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Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
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Marc Mensa Online
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Post: #41
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-08-2019 08:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 07:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 06:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But you ignore my point. That even without any Trump changes, CBO projected rapidly-increasing deficits under legacy Obama policies.
Rapidly increasing deficits have been projected long before President Obams took office... simply because many more people would be pulling from SS and Medicare than contributing, and the CBO acknowledges as much.
The current deficit spike we are incurring now, however, is a result of decreased revenues. The projected outlays from are exactly where the CBO projected in 2016... the revenues, however, are off by 300 billion... and that 300 billion is due to the tax cut.

And I would agree that maybe $300 billion is due to Trump. That leaves over $600 billion due to legacy Obama programs. Which is what I’ve been saying all along.

2018’s deficit was 784 billion... roughly half of which is due to the 300+ billion dollar revenue shortfall. It takes just a rudimentary review of the 2016 CBO report along with the 2018 CBO budget data to draw this simple conclusion.

You’re attempting, however, to place blame of the rest of the 2027 deficit on creative accounting and not the growing senior population (SS & Medicare) and debt service ... which is what the CBO attributes the inevitable tsunami of debt.
10-08-2019 08:36 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #42
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-08-2019 08:36 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 08:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 07:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 06:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But you ignore my point. That even without any Trump changes, CBO projected rapidly-increasing deficits under legacy Obama policies.
Rapidly increasing deficits have been projected long before President Obams took office... simply because many more people would be pulling from SS and Medicare than contributing, and the CBO acknowledges as much.
The current deficit spike we are incurring now, however, is a result of decreased revenues. The projected outlays from are exactly where the CBO projected in 2016... the revenues, however, are off by 300 billion... and that 300 billion is due to the tax cut.
And I would agree that maybe $300 billion is due to Trump. That leaves over $600 billion due to legacy Obama programs. Which is what I’ve been saying all along.
2018’s deficit was 784 billion... roughly half of which is due to the 300+ billion dollar revenue shortfall. It takes just a rudimentary review of the 2016 CBO report along with the 2018 CBO budget data to draw this simple conclusion.
You’re attempting, however, to place blame of the rest of the 2027 deficit on creative accounting and not the growing senior population (SS & Medicare) and debt service ... which is what the CBO attributes the inevitable tsunami of debt.

You still don’t understand the point. Some people apparently do, you obviously don’t.
10-08-2019 08:49 PM
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Marc Mensa Online
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Post: #43
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-08-2019 08:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 08:36 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 08:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 07:03 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 06:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  But you ignore my point. That even without any Trump changes, CBO projected rapidly-increasing deficits under legacy Obama policies.
Rapidly increasing deficits have been projected long before President Obams took office... simply because many more people would be pulling from SS and Medicare than contributing, and the CBO acknowledges as much.
The current deficit spike we are incurring now, however, is a result of decreased revenues. The projected outlays from are exactly where the CBO projected in 2016... the revenues, however, are off by 300 billion... and that 300 billion is due to the tax cut.
And I would agree that maybe $300 billion is due to Trump. That leaves over $600 billion due to legacy Obama programs. Which is what I’ve been saying all along.
2018’s deficit was 784 billion... roughly half of which is due to the 300+ billion dollar revenue shortfall. It takes just a rudimentary review of the 2016 CBO report along with the 2018 CBO budget data to draw this simple conclusion.
You’re attempting, however, to place blame of the rest of the 2027 deficit on creative accounting and not the growing senior population (SS & Medicare) and debt service ... which is what the CBO attributes the inevitable tsunami of debt.

You still don’t understand the point. Some people apparently do, you obviously don’t.

What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.
10-08-2019 09:20 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #44
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-08-2019 09:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.

Actually I do no such thing, I simply report numbers that CBO itself reported in 2017. And those numbers show that most of the current deficit had nothing to do with Donald Trump or the "Trump tax cuts." You admit that the budget deficit is primarily growing because of long-term systemic factors you still want to blame it on the "Trump tax cuts." They have decreased tax revenues in the short term, but that merely adds to an already growing deficit.

Answer this question, because your posts have flip-flopped back and forth::

The majority of the current budget deficit is the result of
a) the "Trump tax cuts"
b) long term factors that were baked into the budget before Trump took office
c) the tooth fairy
d) none of the above
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2019 11:35 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-08-2019 11:31 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-08-2019 11:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 09:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.

Actually I do no such thing, I simply report numbers that CBO itself reported in 2017. And those numbers show that most of the current deficit had nothing to do with Donald Trump or the "Trump tax cuts." You admit that the budget deficit is primarily growing because of long-term systemic factors you still want to blame it on the "Trump tax cuts." They have decreased tax revenues in the short term, but that merely adds to an already growing deficit.

Answer this question, because your posts have flip-flopped back and forth::

The majority of the current budget deficit is the result of
a) the "Trump tax cuts"
b) long term factors that were baked into the budget before Trump took office
c) the tooth fairy
d) none of the above

The larger point here is that Republicans are not the deficit hawks they claim to be, and in fact in Since Reagan, the only presidencies where the deficit decreased were Clinton and Obama.
10-09-2019 07:44 AM
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Marc Mensa Online
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Post: #46
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-08-2019 11:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 09:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.

Actually I do no such thing, I simply report numbers that CBO itself reported in 2017. And those numbers show that most of the current deficit had nothing to do with Donald Trump or the "Trump tax cuts." You admit that the budget deficit is primarily growing because of long-term systemic factors you still want to blame it on the "Trump tax cuts." They have decreased tax revenues in the short term, but that merely adds to an already growing deficit.

Answer this question, because your posts have flip-flopped back and forth::

The majority of the current budget deficit is the result of
a) the "Trump tax cuts"
b) long term factors that were baked into the budget before Trump took office
c) the tooth fairy
d) none of the above

There is no flip-flopping but there are two separate issues.

1. The spike in the current deficit which is double the projected deficit from 2016.

I blame the doubling of the current deficit on the Trump tax cuts, and quite frankly, I don’t see how you could look at the data and not come to that same conclusion. In a healthy economy we should be seeing the deficit shrink, however, we’re seeing the exact opposite.

2. The significant rise in the deficit coming in 2023 and onward.

For this, you point the finger at President Obama, I suppose since the 10 year 2017 CBO projections illustrated what has been known for years. Al Gore was ridiculed for his lock box of protection for Medicare and SS surplus’... protecting them being given back in the form of tax cuts. Those benefits were projected to run dry in 2025... projections made prior to tge Bush cuts.; Bush won, however, and cut taxes. It was the Bush tax cuts beginning in 2002 that have consistently reduced revenues below 18% GDP and ensured the insolvency of SS and Medicare. President Obama renewed those cuts in 2012 because of the fragile state of the economy, but we have yet to see revenues rise back to those mid-90’s pre-tax cut levels. I do not blame Trump for that oncoming crisis, but I do believe his tax cuts only exacerbated the problem.
10-09-2019 07:49 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-09-2019 07:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 11:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 09:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.

Actually I do no such thing, I simply report numbers that CBO itself reported in 2017. And those numbers show that most of the current deficit had nothing to do with Donald Trump or the "Trump tax cuts." You admit that the budget deficit is primarily growing because of long-term systemic factors you still want to blame it on the "Trump tax cuts." They have decreased tax revenues in the short term, but that merely adds to an already growing deficit.

Answer this question, because your posts have flip-flopped back and forth::

The majority of the current budget deficit is the result of
a) the "Trump tax cuts"
b) long term factors that were baked into the budget before Trump took office
c) the tooth fairy
d) none of the above

There is no flip-flopping but there are two separate issues.

1. The spike in the current deficit which is double the projected deficit from 2016.

I blame the doubling of the current deficit on the Trump tax cuts, and quite frankly, I don’t see how you could look at the data and not come to that same conclusion. In a healthy economy we should be seeing the deficit shrink, however, we’re seeing the exact opposite.

2. The significant rise in the deficit coming in 2023 and onward.

For this, you point the finger at President Obama, I suppose since the 10 year 2017 CBO projections illustrated what has been known for years. Al Gore was ridiculed for his lock box of protection for Medicare and SS surplus’... protecting them being given back in the form of tax cuts. Those benefits were projected to run dry in 2025... projections made prior to tge Bush cuts.; Bush won, however, and cut taxes. It was the Bush tax cuts beginning in 2002 that have consistently reduced revenues below 18% GDP and ensured the insolvency of SS and Medicare. President Obama renewed those cuts in 2012 because of the fragile state of the economy, but we have yet to see revenues rise back to those mid-90’s pre-tax cut levels. I do not blame Trump for that oncoming crisis, but I do believe his tax cuts only exacerbated the problem.

good god....you're clueless...

it's the number of people living longer and the raiding that occurred over decades that caused that issue....

you cannot overcome actual numbers and continue to implement socialist policies w/o the debt rising....

the worst thing Obama championed was Zero-care for the working class masses to absorb 'freebies'....

there's no escaping it now....

the only thing you can hope for now is our debt is still purchasable with any semblance of value....

my crew saw this lunacy 30+ yrs. ago.....

#keepkiddingyourself
10-09-2019 08:00 AM
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Marc Mensa Online
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Post: #48
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-09-2019 08:00 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(10-09-2019 07:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 11:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 09:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.

Actually I do no such thing, I simply report numbers that CBO itself reported in 2017. And those numbers show that most of the current deficit had nothing to do with Donald Trump or the "Trump tax cuts." You admit that the budget deficit is primarily growing because of long-term systemic factors you still want to blame it on the "Trump tax cuts." They have decreased tax revenues in the short term, but that merely adds to an already growing deficit.

Answer this question, because your posts have flip-flopped back and forth::

The majority of the current budget deficit is the result of
a) the "Trump tax cuts"
b) long term factors that were baked into the budget before Trump took office
c) the tooth fairy
d) none of the above

There is no flip-flopping but there are two separate issues.

1. The spike in the current deficit which is double the projected deficit from 2016.

I blame the doubling of the current deficit on the Trump tax cuts, and quite frankly, I don’t see how you could look at the data and not come to that same conclusion. In a healthy economy we should be seeing the deficit shrink, however, we’re seeing the exact opposite.

2. The significant rise in the deficit coming in 2023 and onward.

For this, you point the finger at President Obama, I suppose since the 10 year 2017 CBO projections illustrated what has been known for years. Al Gore was ridiculed for his lock box of protection for Medicare and SS surplus’... protecting them being given back in the form of tax cuts. Those benefits were projected to run dry in 2025... projections made prior to tge Bush cuts.; Bush won, however, and cut taxes. It was the Bush tax cuts beginning in 2002 that have consistently reduced revenues below 18% GDP and ensured the insolvency of SS and Medicare. President Obama renewed those cuts in 2012 because of the fragile state of the economy, but we have yet to see revenues rise back to those mid-90’s pre-tax cut levels. I do not blame Trump for that oncoming crisis, but I do believe his tax cuts only exacerbated the problem.

good god....you're clueless...

it's the number of people living longer and the raiding that occurred over decades that caused that issue....

you cannot overcome actual numbers and continue to implement socialist policies w/o the debt rising....

the worst thing Obama championed was Zero-care for the working class masses to absorb 'freebies'....

there's no escaping it now....

the only thing you can hope for now is our debt is still purchasable with any semblance of value....

my crew saw this lunacy 30+ yrs. ago.....

#keepkiddingyourself

Everyone knows the problem, which I’ve outlined 10x’s in this thread. The issue is how is it resolved. We once had federal revenues consistently above 18%... a result of Bush and Clinton tax increases... politically costly tax increases but necessary longterm to balance the budget. According to Owl’s link, the CBO in 2017 projected outlays to consistently reach 24% of GDP in the out years, so revenues in the 16% range cannot continue. Taxes will have to increase and cuts will have to be made. Right now, no one is willing to take on this challenge and instead they want to give out tax cuts and programs.
10-09-2019 08:36 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #49
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-09-2019 07:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  There is no flip-flopping but there are two separate issues.
1. The spike in the current deficit which is double the projected deficit from 2016.
I blame the doubling of the current deficit on the Trump tax cuts, and quite frankly, I don’t see how you could look at the data and not come to that same conclusion. In a healthy economy we should be seeing the deficit shrink, however, we’re seeing the exact opposite.
2. The significant rise in the deficit coming in 2023 and onward.
For this, you point the finger at President Obama, I suppose since the 10 year 2017 CBO projections illustrated what has been known for years. Al Gore was ridiculed for his lock box of protection for Medicare and SS surplus’... protecting them being given back in the form of tax cuts. Those benefits were projected to run dry in 2025... projections made prior to tge Bush cuts.; Bush won, however, and cut taxes. It was the Bush tax cuts beginning in 2002 that have consistently reduced revenues below 18% GDP and ensured the insolvency of SS and Medicare. President Obama renewed those cuts in 2012 because of the fragile state of the economy, but we have yet to see revenues rise back to those mid-90’s pre-tax cut levels. I do not blame Trump for that oncoming crisis, but I do believe his tax cuts only exacerbated the problem.

OK, and my point is that your point 2 is actually not just about what is happening from 2023 onward but what is already happening. I agree that from 2023 onward it gets completely out of control. But from 2017 to 2023 it was projected to double without Trump. And while I agree that the "Trump tax cuts" have reduced tax revenues, I'm not sure about the $300 billion number (the projections up front were for an impact of about $100 billion a year) and whatever the number, they simply add to a trend that was already there.

The point about the $100 billion is that the democrats were calling it a "trillion dollar tax cut" because they were using the projected ten-year impact. I think that's kind of the mis-perception they are trying to perpetrate here. We get told how Obama "reduced the deficit" when 1) he blew up the deficit before he reduced it, 2) he didn't reduce it until republicans took the house (where spending bills originate) and started to impose some fiscal discipline, and 3) he left behind a bunch of policies that were going to ensure that the deficit began to grow rapidly again as soon as it became somebody else's fault. I think democrats are just waiting for the deficit to hit $1 trillion again, so they can talk about how Trump's "trillion dollar tax cut" caused a trillion dolar deficit that was "shrinking under Obama." Honesty is neither the democrats' nor Obama's strong suit.

I don't think we are ever going to be able to talk about the same subject, so I'm not sure there's any point in continuing the conversation.

I will say this, I disapprove of the deficit at either the Obama legacy level or the Trump level. Unlike most, who just want to complain about it and blame others, I've actually tried to figure out a way to solve it.

Number one, we need more tax revenues. We can't do that with income taxes without pricing ourselves off the world market. We would become a raw materials, consumption, and services economy, with few value-added activities that can afford middle-class wages. Ask Argentina how well that works. The only way to solve it is by doing what every other developed country does, and impose a national consumption tax. That move would also have mild trade protection impacts superior to anything Trump's tariffs can produce. We can't really "level the field" in trade with anyone else until we do that. A 15% consumption tax would generate sufficient revenues to balance the budget and allow income taxes to be reduced to world-competitive levels, particularly if we also broadened the tax base by reducing or eliminating deductions and exclusions. This is essentially the conceptual approach recommended by Domenici-Rivlin, and to a lesser extent (no consumption tax) by Bowles-Simpson.

Number two, we need to make social security solvent on its own. It's actually not difficult, if we act now. Raise the combined tax rate to 15%, eliminate the cap on wages and salaries (the most regressive tax we have, other than perhaps the corporate income tax), and slowly increase that full benefit retirement age from 66 to 70 (say, add one month per year for 48 years) while retaining the early retirement at 62 with actuarially reduced benefits. Additionally, we could do like Sweden and include a privatized component. This would additionally reduce the inequality in wealth dispersion over time, by giving every working citizen a "super 401k."

Number three, we need to stem the rise of health and welfare and other "entitlement" costs. We can do that by adopting different models that deliver more benefits to recipients with reduced administrative costs. Most of our current welfare systems spend more on gate-keepers and other administrative personnel than they pay out in actual benefits. So go to a universal basic income welfare model, and go to a Bismarck health care model. Those could both be basically administered by the current IRS. That transition is going to suck for sociologists and the like, because their gravy train is going to dry up. But IMO that's not a bug, it's a feature. There's a reason why the top 3 counties in the US for average household income, and 7 of the top 12, are in the DC metro area. It's not because they are producing some valuable product. It's because there are too many fat cat bureaucrats (and contractors) getting overpaid for driving a desk.

Until we do those three things, there is not enough money in the military and other discretionary programs to make a significant difference, but we need to squeeze more efficiency out of those programs. Once again, excessive administrative overhead is the big problem. Per a McKinsey study a few years ago, the average OECD country spends 14% of its military budget on combat, 23% on combat support, and 63% on administrative overhead. That's bad enough, but the US is much worse. We spend 9% on combat, 14% on combat support, and 77% on administrative overhead. If we just hacked our way down to OECD average levels of efficiency, we would save $100 billion or more. Never fighting a war that we didn't intend to win would save us whatever we are spending in the Middle East today, probably another $100 billion. Doing like Israel and Sweden and Switzerland and converting a number of positions from active duty to reserves would enable us to increase end strength and still save $20-50 billion. And reforming procurement to save us from boondoggles like the Ford aircraft carrier, the Zumwalt destroyers, the Littoral Combat Ships that can't do combat, and the F-35, would save a few billion more.

Finally, address any remaining shortfalls with increased Pigovian taxes. Increase the taxes on alcohol and tobacco. Legalize marijuana and tax it. Consider taxes on CO2 production, including increased gasoline/Diesel taxes. And tax pollution.

You got any plans, or do you just want to piss and moan and blame?
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2019 08:53 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
10-09-2019 08:42 AM
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Post: #50
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
The truth is Trump has cut into Obama's "pay it forward" deficit by increasing the revenue into the treasury.

Revenue into the treasury is at an ALL TIME HIGH.

There is no revenue shortfall.
10-09-2019 08:44 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-09-2019 08:36 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-09-2019 08:00 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(10-09-2019 07:49 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 11:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 09:20 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  What I understand, is you make claims the cbo does not make, so I really don’t care if a handful of cheerleaders on this site claim to understand your baseless assertions. I agree there are long term systemic problems on the horizon but I do not blame them on any one President, other than their unwillingness to address them ... and Trump has not yet hit those years.

Actually I do no such thing, I simply report numbers that CBO itself reported in 2017. And those numbers show that most of the current deficit had nothing to do with Donald Trump or the "Trump tax cuts." You admit that the budget deficit is primarily growing because of long-term systemic factors you still want to blame it on the "Trump tax cuts." They have decreased tax revenues in the short term, but that merely adds to an already growing deficit.

Answer this question, because your posts have flip-flopped back and forth::

The majority of the current budget deficit is the result of
a) the "Trump tax cuts"
b) long term factors that were baked into the budget before Trump took office
c) the tooth fairy
d) none of the above

There is no flip-flopping but there are two separate issues.

1. The spike in the current deficit which is double the projected deficit from 2016.

I blame the doubling of the current deficit on the Trump tax cuts, and quite frankly, I don’t see how you could look at the data and not come to that same conclusion. In a healthy economy we should be seeing the deficit shrink, however, we’re seeing the exact opposite.

2. The significant rise in the deficit coming in 2023 and onward.

For this, you point the finger at President Obama, I suppose since the 10 year 2017 CBO projections illustrated what has been known for years. Al Gore was ridiculed for his lock box of protection for Medicare and SS surplus’... protecting them being given back in the form of tax cuts. Those benefits were projected to run dry in 2025... projections made prior to tge Bush cuts.; Bush won, however, and cut taxes. It was the Bush tax cuts beginning in 2002 that have consistently reduced revenues below 18% GDP and ensured the insolvency of SS and Medicare. President Obama renewed those cuts in 2012 because of the fragile state of the economy, but we have yet to see revenues rise back to those mid-90’s pre-tax cut levels. I do not blame Trump for that oncoming crisis, but I do believe his tax cuts only exacerbated the problem.

good god....you're clueless...

it's the number of people living longer and the raiding that occurred over decades that caused that issue....

you cannot overcome actual numbers and continue to implement socialist policies w/o the debt rising....

the worst thing Obama championed was Zero-care for the working class masses to absorb 'freebies'....

there's no escaping it now....

the only thing you can hope for now is our debt is still purchasable with any semblance of value....

my crew saw this lunacy 30+ yrs. ago.....

#keepkiddingyourself

Everyone knows the problem, which I’ve outlined 10x’s in this thread. The issue is how is it resolved. We once had federal revenues consistently above 18%... a result of Bush and Clinton tax increases... politically costly tax increases but necessary longterm to balance the budget. According to Owl’s link, the CBO in 2017 projected outlays to consistently reach 24% of GDP in the out years, so revenues in the 16% range cannot continue. Taxes will have to increase and cuts will have to be made. Right now, no one is willing to take on this challenge and instead they want to give out tax cuts and programs.

like I said, there's no escaping it now w/o continually increasing debt spending via bonds within the current level of gooberment structure and outreach...

fk the CBO....they're always behind the curve...

the shite's going to hit the fan one way or the other....the rest of this discussion is bs semantics....

you cannot overcome real numbers in the current schema....

however, you're right about one thing.....not one fk'n elected congressional soul wants to address a real solution....
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2019 08:47 AM by stinkfist.)
10-09-2019 08:47 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #52
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
One other piece to add to the mix:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...pId=google
10-09-2019 10:47 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-09-2019 10:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One other piece to add to the mix:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...pId=google

the socialist arguments simply don't get it...and those dipshites wonder why 'Gina' has become a problem....

I know you despise tariffs....but today, it was the only option in a pinch....

you also know I'm with you on the VAT as a longer term solution....

I'm still trying to figure out how/who will pull that trigger....
10-09-2019 10:55 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Federal deficit estimated at 984 Billion, highest in seven years
(10-09-2019 10:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One other piece to add to the mix:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...pId=google

but mensa........
10-09-2019 11:21 AM
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