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ShadyP Online
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Post: #21
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-07-2019 03:10 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I wouldn’t change the defensive schemes (young players are still learning it), but we need better safety play. Maybe a change of starters is warranted.

Agreed.
10-08-2019 09:32 AM
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ShadyP Online
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Post: #22
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 05:42 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  The question is whether the starting safeties can improve, or is there not the bench depth to replace them? I don’t believe it’s the scheme, it’s the players.

And if it is players/lack of depth issue at safety that is a leftover of Mike Houston recruiting of that position.
10-08-2019 09:34 AM
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ShadyP Online
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Post: #23
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 08:57 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  
(10-07-2019 09:04 PM)jmu007 Wrote:  Not sure what you can do when you're got a play called to have the safety cover the deep half and he just runs 5 yards shallow of where the ball is going.

Just watched again, and I'm convinced he was locked in on the football out of the QB's hand (45 yards of airtime!), was playing the ball the entire time (his head never gets over to his right), and flat out misjudged where it was going by a pretty stunning 9 yards or so. Took his "oh crap" pivot step at the 4, catch dropped 5 yards deep in the endzone.

That was one very bad read there on the last play by the safety. If taken the proper angle would have been an easy knockdown by the safety. I think the safeties will be doing a lot of angle work this week on deep throws. Also some of those catches/throws by Fields were some spot on throws into decent coverage while running for his life. IMO he could have just as easily thrown 2-3 INTs.
10-08-2019 09:45 AM
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Hotrod829 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 09:45 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 08:57 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  
(10-07-2019 09:04 PM)jmu007 Wrote:  Not sure what you can do when you're got a play called to have the safety cover the deep half and he just runs 5 yards shallow of where the ball is going.

Just watched again, and I'm convinced he was locked in on the football out of the QB's hand (45 yards of airtime!), was playing the ball the entire time (his head never gets over to his right), and flat out misjudged where it was going by a pretty stunning 9 yards or so. Took his "oh crap" pivot step at the 4, catch dropped 5 yards deep in the endzone.

That was one very bad read there on the last play by the safety. If taken the proper angle would have been an easy knockdown by the safety. I think the safeties will be doing a lot of angle work this week on deep throws. Also some of those catches/throws by Fields were some spot on throws into decent coverage while running for his life. IMO he could have just as easily thrown 2-3 INTs.


Games like this will help the Db's in the future. Bad film should lead to better practices. This is what you get when you have this aggressive play style. I remember some poster begging for it , well here it is . We will be okay.
10-08-2019 10:00 AM
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ShadyP Online
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Post: #25
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 10:00 AM)Hotrod829 Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 09:45 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 08:57 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  
(10-07-2019 09:04 PM)jmu007 Wrote:  Not sure what you can do when you're got a play called to have the safety cover the deep half and he just runs 5 yards shallow of where the ball is going.

Just watched again, and I'm convinced he was locked in on the football out of the QB's hand (45 yards of airtime!), was playing the ball the entire time (his head never gets over to his right), and flat out misjudged where it was going by a pretty stunning 9 yards or so. Took his "oh crap" pivot step at the 4, catch dropped 5 yards deep in the endzone.

That was one very bad read there on the last play by the safety. If taken the proper angle would have been an easy knockdown by the safety. I think the safeties will be doing a lot of angle work this week on deep throws. Also some of those catches/throws by Fields were some spot on throws into decent coverage while running for his life. IMO he could have just as easily thrown 2-3 INTs.


Games like this will help the Db's in the future. Bad film should lead to better practices. This is what you get when you have this aggressive play style. I remember some poster begging for it , well here it is . We will be okay.

Exactly HotRod. You play aggressive defense and put DBs on an island, it leads to more big play potential. It is imperative playing this aggressive style to get QB pressure b/c you can only cover guys so long no matter who is back there. I much prefer this style personally to playing soft (off 7+ yards) and giving up 5-10 easy completions all day.

The DBs will learn a lot from this weeks film no doubt.

Also got to remember the other teams are playing with scholarship guys too, its not like they just went around the dorms hoping to find some guys.
10-08-2019 10:05 AM
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BSKB 24 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Defensive Scheme
I was at the game and I will share these observations with you. We are playing almost exclusively press coverage on the outside.
Other teams now know this and are changing their passing game to compensate. The receivers are running routes mano y mano. They know it is one on one and they are doing some great shake and bake moves on our corners. Some times 2 and 3 moves and our corners always bite. If not on the first move, certainly the second or third. They then let the receivers get behind them. I couldn't believe we let the receivers behind us so many times. My Lord, certain situations call for nothing more than just keeping everything in front of us. When a receiver is running a route against zone coverage he is basically running to a soft spot in the zone.

How do you let a receiver get behind you on 4th and 20 on the last play of the game? I put that entirely on the coaches. The DC has done a great job with our D Line and Backers, but he has a long, long way to go coaching the secondary. Our safeties aren't providing help over the top. Their angles are horrendous.
10-08-2019 11:16 AM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 08:57 AM)bjk3047 Wrote:  
(10-07-2019 09:04 PM)jmu007 Wrote:  Not sure what you can do when you're got a play called to have the safety cover the deep half and he just runs 5 yards shallow of where the ball is going.

Just watched again, and I'm convinced he was locked in on the football out of the QB's hand (45 yards of airtime!), was playing the ball the entire time (his head never gets over to his right), and flat out misjudged where it was going by a pretty stunning 9 yards or so. Took his "oh crap" pivot step at the 4, catch dropped 5 yards deep in the endzone.
He made several equally bad reads on Saturday and also in previous games.
10-08-2019 02:40 PM
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JMU08 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Defensive Scheme
Just going to put this out there, the 2018 defense was definitely worse than our current defense. I think people remember all the good defense in 2017 and project that onto 2018, which allowed plenty of busted runs and passes.
10-08-2019 04:37 PM
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BleedingPurple Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 04:37 PM)JMU08 Wrote:  Just going to put this out there, the 2018 defense was definitely worse than our current defense. I think people remember all the good defense in 2017 and project that onto 2018, which allowed plenty of busted runs and passes.

Agree, some of our blowout wins really didn't have a lot of 3 and outs. RU was a good example, we got timely turnovers that made our defense last season look better than it was.
10-09-2019 10:09 AM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-09-2019 10:09 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 04:37 PM)JMU08 Wrote:  Just going to put this out there, the 2018 defense was definitely worse than our current defense. I think people remember all the good defense in 2017 and project that onto 2018, which allowed plenty of busted runs and passes.

Agree, some of our blowout wins really didn't have a lot of 3 and outs. RU was a good example, we got timely turnovers that made our defense last season look better than it was.

Arguably some of those turnovers (by players like JFM) are what made that defense good.

Still, last year wasn’t without a lot of blemishes.

The team this year still needs work, and Cig would be the first to say that. Solve the secondary issues though, and things are looking good.
10-09-2019 10:30 AM
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formerjmusprinter84 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 11:16 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I was at the game and I will share these observations with you. We are playing almost exclusively press coverage on the outside.
Other teams now know this and are changing their passing game to compensate. The receivers are running routes mano y mano. They know it is one on one and they are doing some great shake and bake moves on our corners. Some times 2 and 3 moves and our corners always bite. If not on the first move, certainly the second or third. They then let the receivers get behind them. I couldn't believe we let the receivers behind us so many times. My Lord, certain situations call for nothing more than just keeping everything in front of us. When a receiver is running a route against zone coverage he is basically running to a soft spot in the zone.

How do you let a receiver get behind you on 4th and 20 on the last play of the game? I put that entirely on the coaches. The DC has done a great job with our D Line and Backers, but he has a long, long way to go coaching the secondary. Our safeties aren't providing help over the top. Their angles are horrendous.

Thanks for the insight BSKB. I have only attended the Chattanooga game and it can be difficult to ascertain on television/internet why our DBs are so far behind receivers at times. Sometimes it also appears there is a definite speed gap between some receivers and our DB's but not sure how much of that is either scheme or DB coverage error which allows receivers to get behind them vs the receivers actually being flat out faster.
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2019 10:33 AM by formerjmusprinter84.)
10-09-2019 10:32 AM
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Duke Dawg Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-08-2019 11:16 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I was at the game and I will share these observations with you. We are playing almost exclusively press coverage on the outside.
Other teams now know this and are changing their passing game to compensate. The receivers are running routes mano y mano. They know it is one on one and they are doing some great shake and bake moves on our corners. Some times 2 and 3 moves and our corners always bite. If not on the first move, certainly the second or third. They then let the receivers get behind them. I couldn't believe we let the receivers behind us so many times. My Lord, certain situations call for nothing more than just keeping everything in front of us. When a receiver is running a route against zone coverage he is basically running to a soft spot in the zone.

How do you let a receiver get behind you on 4th and 20 on the last play of the game? I put that entirely on the coaches. The DC has done a great job with our D Line and Backers, but he has a long, long way to go coaching the secondary. Our safeties aren't providing help over the top. Their angles are horrendous.

isn't this the risk of an aggressive front 7?

we were promised lots of blitzing, but i haven't seen it much yet.

but the idea is, you don't worry about getting beat deep because by the time the receiver gets past the jam at the line, you would hope your aggressive push will get to the QB first. it's risk/reward style and i am all for it.

sounds like Saturday a couple things hurt in that area:

a) the QB is elusive
b) the QB made an ungodly amount of accurate throws (credit to him)
c) there WR's made the one on one plays.

i didn't see the whole game, but there a few completions i saw on the highlights where it looked like we had pretty good coverage, the WR just made a play and our guy didn't. That happens.

i don't mind the strategy by HCCC, as long as we do blitz some though.

lots needs to go right for a long pass to be successful:

the OL needs to keep the QB clean
the WR needs to beat the initial jam from our DB
the QB needs to throw a long accurate ball that is even catchable, which is asking alot of FCS non-future-pro QBs.

Saturday might have just been one of those days.

i'd be much more concerned about pass D if we are seeing lots of 5-15 yard completions when we don't have a chance to get to the QB.

Basically, the kind of passing game we run with Ben. That is much tougher to defend and stop if the QB is accurate (again, like Ben).
(This post was last modified: 10-09-2019 10:50 AM by Duke Dawg.)
10-09-2019 10:49 AM
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94computerguy Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-09-2019 10:49 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  
(10-08-2019 11:16 AM)BSKB 24 Wrote:  I was at the game and I will share these observations with you. We are playing almost exclusively press coverage on the outside.
Other teams now know this and are changing their passing game to compensate. The receivers are running routes mano y mano. They know it is one on one and they are doing some great shake and bake moves on our corners. Some times 2 and 3 moves and our corners always bite. If not on the first move, certainly the second or third. They then let the receivers get behind them. I couldn't believe we let the receivers behind us so many times. My Lord, certain situations call for nothing more than just keeping everything in front of us. When a receiver is running a route against zone coverage he is basically running to a soft spot in the zone.

How do you let a receiver get behind you on 4th and 20 on the last play of the game? I put that entirely on the coaches. The DC has done a great job with our D Line and Backers, but he has a long, long way to go coaching the secondary. Our safeties aren't providing help over the top. Their angles are horrendous.

isn't this the risk of an aggressive front 7?

we were promised lots of blitzing, but i haven't seen it much yet.

but the idea is, you don't worry about getting beat deep because by the time the receiver gets past the jam at the line, you would hope your aggressive push will get to the QB first. it's risk/reward style and i am all for it.

sounds like Saturday a couple things hurt in that area:

a) the QB is elusive
b) the QB made an ungodly amount of accurate throws (credit to him)
c) there WR's made the one on one plays.

i didn't see the whole game, but there a few completions i saw on the highlights where it looked like we had pretty good coverage, the WR just made a play and our guy didn't. That happens.

i don't mind the strategy by HCCC, as long as we do blitz some though.

lots needs to go right for a long pass to be successful:

the OL needs to keep the QB clean
the WR needs to beat the initial jam from our DB
the QB needs to throw a long accurate ball that is even catchable, which is asking alot of FCS non-future-pro QBs.

Saturday might have just been one of those days.

i'd be much more concerned about pass D if we are seeing lots of 5-15 yard completions when we don't have a chance to get to the QB.

Basically, the kind of passing game we run with Ben. That is much tougher to defend and stop if the QB is accurate (again, like Ben).

Well, I've been looking for a reason to re-watch the game sober, so I will. But there's a difference between "well, there's going to be some gaps because pressure" and "someone should be within 5 yards of that guy, I think?"

So I think the biggest thing at this point would be discipline on play action. That's a pretty simple thing, and maintaining deep help until they're really sure it's a run helps. Especially when you figure that was a weakness that was exposed, everyone is going to go after it for the rest of the season.
10-09-2019 10:58 AM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Defensive Scheme
IMO, you play aggressive on early downs. Yes, teams will get some big pass plays occassionaly, but more often they will be incomplete and then they are in down & distance problems. On 3rd and 15, there is no need to play aggressive. Rush 4 and have enough defenders to cover all 5 eligible receivers 1 on 1 while having 2 zone safeties to prevent the throw over the top. Who cares if the opponent picks up 12 yards on 3rd and 15. time to punt

as good as JMU's front 4 is, they would still get sacks and JMU would have a pass defense to keep throws underneath.

Based on Cignetti's press conference, it sounds like he will be changing Heatherman's play calling in similar situations.
10-09-2019 05:13 PM
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Deacon Danny Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Defensive Scheme
Looks like we've added some depth to the secondary on the roster:

#17 Chase Lundy (DB) - 5'8" / 160 lbs / Fr. Woodbridge, VA (Colgan)
#25 Jonathan Brodnax (DB) - 5'8" 160 lbs / Fr. Norfolk, VA (Norfolk Christian)
#85 Jack Hannah (WR) - 6'0" 168 lbs. / Fr. Manlius, NY (Fayetteville-Manlius)
10-14-2019 02:07 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Defensive Scheme
(10-14-2019 02:07 PM)Deacon Danny Wrote:  Looks like we've added some depth to the secondary on the roster:

#17 Chase Lundy (DB) - 5'8" / 160 lbs / Fr. Woodbridge, VA (Colgan)
#25 Jonathan Brodnax (DB) - 5'8" 160 lbs / Fr. Norfolk, VA (Norfolk Christian)
#85 Jack Hannah (WR) - 6'0" 168 lbs. / Fr. Manlius, NY (Fayetteville-Manlius)

Interesting, PWO’s?

During the presser, Cig said there was a Stoney Brook player we couldn’t take because of the offer to Palmer, so doesn’t sound like we had much surplus of schollies, unless that changed over the summer.
10-14-2019 02:32 PM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Defensive Scheme
Yes, walk-ons.
10-14-2019 03:48 PM
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