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Poll: Should C-USA and Sun Belt teams be re-arranged?
Yes, new 4 division proposal looks good
No - keep C-USA & SB as they are
Merge them into a mega-conference
Turn 4 G4 conferences into a G3
Do something even more radical!
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Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #1
Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
A quick look at the C-USA and Sun Belt maps suggests that most of the members could save an incredible amount of money by re-forming into two new conferences with closer geographical ties, much lower travel costs and times, easier ability to watch your teams on nearby fields, more time for fun, etc.

Preamble:

About half of the Sun Belt and C-USA teams fall within the broader footprint of the SEC (extending into Texas) and almost half fall within the footprint of the ACC. The MAC and MWC footprints don't overlap with any of the other G5s. The AAC overlaps most, but is in an ESPN category of its own that could prevent more than 2 or 3 additions to the AAC in the next few years.

Assuming no exchanges with the MWC or MAC, the most obvious options to rearrange the Sunbelt and C-USA might include the following:

Proposal:

I. Merger of the East Divisions of Sun Belt and C-USA into a new Southeastern Coastal Conference (Name to be determined; fostering P5 rivalries with ACC and SEC teams from Virginia, Kentucky, and the Carolinas through Georgia to Florida)

North Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 400-500 MILES

ODU
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Marshall
MTSU LOCATIONS: NC (2), VA (1) , WVa (1), KY (1), TN (1)
WKU


South Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 550-650 MILES

Coastal Carolina
Troy LOCATIONS: SC (1), Alabama (1), Georgia (2), Florida (2)
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
FIU
FAU

Total schools: 12.

Primary advantage: More local rivalries, much lower travel costs & reduced travel time for athletes & fans. 12 schools = ideal conference size.

============================================

II. Merger of the West Divisions of Sun Belt and C-USA into a new G5 South Central Conference (Name to be determined; fostering P5 rivalries with Big-12 and SEC teams from Texas to Alabama).

West Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 550-600 MILES

UTEP
UTSA
Rice
UNT LOCATIONS: Texas (5) & Arkansas (1)
Texas State
Arkansas State

East Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 300-400 MILES

Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Southern Miss
UAB LOCATIONS: Louisiana (3), South Miss. (1), Alabama (2)
South Alabama

Total schools: 12.

Primary advantage: More local rivalries and much lower travel costs & travel time. 12 schools are better than 10 or 14 team conferences.

========================================================================================

OPTION TO CONSIDER:

OVER-ARCHING TWO CONFERENCE ORGANIZATIONAL SETUP, ENCOMPASSING TWO NEW CONFERENCES FROM THE TEAMS IN THE CURRENT SUN BELT AND C-USA CONFERENCES WITHIN A 24 TEAM MEGA-STRUCTURE WITH 4 ROUND-ROBIN DIVISIONS SET FORTH ABOVE, ROTATING INTER-DIVISIONAL GAMES, PRESERVATION OF SOME RIVALRY GAMES.

CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES FOR THE G5 SOUTH CENTRAL AND G5 COASTAL -CONFERENCES, WHICH WOULD FUNCTION AS QUASI-INDEPENDENT CONFERENCES LINKED ONLY BY A COMMON ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE, WHICH WOULD NEGOTIATE MEDIA CONTRACTS, BOWL AGREEMENTS, ETC.

Advantages:

Travel costs and travel time would be cut substantially with streamlined divisional systems, as above.

New organizational structure would be in a much more powerful position to negotiate media contracts, bowl agreements, etc., and costs on salaries to conference executive staffs could be cut by 25%. Result, more money to the conference members and a more efficient organizational setup.

The over-arching organizational structure would also have more power in dealing with State governments, airlines, etc.
10-03-2019 10:24 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
You're ignoring present politics.
10-03-2019 10:30 PM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
You need an ok for a 4-team playoff before it's feasible.

Marshall - this would be a really strong division.
WKU
MTSU
ODU
Charlotte
Appy State

Coastal Carolina - this division would be your 'Sunbelt' division. You're keeping UAB separate.
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama
Troy
Ark State

FIU - this would be your SE division. keeping ULaMo separate.
FAU
UAB
USM
La Tech
ULaLa

ULaMo
Rice
UNT
UTSA
UTEP
Texas State

The consolidation and massive voting block is a consideration. We'd have huge market coverage.
10-03-2019 10:38 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
You forgot Little Rock and UTA.

Plus, what about others? I could see a La.-Monroe being left out in favor for schools like James Madison, Delaware, Stony Brook, Chattanooga or Missouri State. They could add non-football schools like VCU, College of Charleston, North Florida and FGCU or a Belmont. I might see UTEP and UTSA going to the MWC which gets UTEP off an island. I could see a school like Lamar moving back up to rejoined their conference mates. I could see a mega conference for scheduling purposes which could involved FCS schools who are not happy with were they are at like the CAA, MVC and the Southland.
10-03-2019 11:44 PM
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UTEPDallas Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
No, thanks!
10-04-2019 12:41 AM
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joeben69 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
(10-03-2019 10:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  A quick look at the C-USA and Sun Belt maps suggests that most of the members could save an incredible amount of money by re-forming into two new conferences with closer geographical ties, much lower travel costs and times, easier ability to watch your teams on nearby fields, more time for fun, etc.

Preamble:

About half of the Sun Belt and C-USA teams fall within the broader footprint of the SEC (extending into Texas) and almost half fall within the footprint of the ACC. The MAC and MWC footprints don't overlap with any of the other G5s. The AAC overlaps most, but is in an ESPN category of its own that could prevent more than 2 or 3 additions to the AAC in the next few years.

Assuming no exchanges with the MWC or MAC, the most obvious options to rearrange the Sunbelt and C-USA might include the following:

Proposal:

I. Merger of the East Divisions of Sun Belt and C-USA into a new Southeastern Coastal Conference (Name to be determined; fostering P5 rivalries with ACC and SEC teams from Virginia, Kentucky, and the Carolinas through Georgia to Florida)

North Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 400-500 MILES

ODU
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Marshall
MTSU LOCATIONS: NC (2), VA (1) , WVa (1), KY (1), TN (1)
WKU


South Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 550-650 MILES

Coastal Carolina
Troy LOCATIONS: SC (1), Alabama (1), Georgia (2), Florida (2)
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
FIU
FAU

Total schools: 12.

Primary advantage: More local rivalries, much lower travel costs & reduced travel time for athletes & fans. 12 schools = ideal conference size.

============================================

II. Merger of the West Divisions of Sun Belt and C-USA into a new G5 South Central Conference (Name to be determined; fostering P5 rivalries with Big-12 and SEC teams from Texas to Alabama).

West Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 550-600 MILES

UTEP
UTSA
Rice
UNT LOCATIONS: Texas (5) & Arkansas (1)
Texas State
Arkansas State

East Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 300-400 MILES

Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Southern Miss
UAB LOCATIONS: Louisiana (3), South Miss. (1), Alabama (2)
South Alabama

Total schools: 12.

Primary advantage: More local rivalries and much lower travel costs & travel time. 12 schools are better than 10 or 14 team conferences.

========================================================================================

OPTION TO CONSIDER:

OVER-ARCHING TWO CONFERENCE ORGANIZATIONAL SETUP, ENCOMPASSING TWO NEW CONFERENCES FROM THE TEAMS IN THE CURRENT SUN BELT AND C-USA CONFERENCES WITHIN A 24 TEAM MEGA-STRUCTURE WITH 4 ROUND-ROBIN DIVISIONS SET FORTH ABOVE, ROTATING INTER-DIVISIONAL GAMES, PRESERVATION OF SOME RIVALRY GAMES.

CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES FOR THE G5 SOUTH CENTRAL AND G5 COASTAL -CONFERENCES, WHICH WOULD FUNCTION AS QUASI-INDEPENDENT CONFERENCES LINKED ONLY BY A COMMON ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE, WHICH WOULD NEGOTIATE MEDIA CONTRACTS, BOWL AGREEMENTS, ETC.

Advantages:

Travel costs and travel time would be cut substantially with streamlined divisional systems, as above.

New organizational structure would be in a much more powerful position to negotiate media contracts, bowl agreements, etc., and costs on salaries to conference executive staffs could be cut by 25%. Result, more money to the conference members and a more efficient organizational setup.

The over-arching organizational structure would also have more power in dealing with State governments, airlines, etc.

like the proposal in principle...

the proposed cusa & sbc respective divisional splits makes geographic sense...all things being equal...

i would let the conferences keep their names and just do the division swaps for simplicity...just treat it like a two conference reorganization...

otherwise...cusa could be marketed as a new southwest conference...
10-04-2019 01:29 AM
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jedclampett Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
(10-03-2019 10:30 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  You're ignoring present politics.

Absolutely - the 4 division model would require sweeping all the present agreements and politics and back-door arrangements, favors, etc. away, and starting from scratch, which is why it may never happen, even if it could cut travel costs something on the order of $20 million per season.

It's simply the model that shortens the travel distances the most - but if travel costs are in the $3-4 million range and could be cut by a million per school per year, that would be the equivalent of getting an extra million per year in the conference media packages.
10-04-2019 02:53 AM
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fresnofanatic Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
3 divisions of 8 for football. Just make all other sports geographical and football to have red, white and blue divisions. Red div consisting of the 8 best per the past 4 years, White div the next 8 best and then blue. Relegate every 2 years. 4 team CCG playoff (3 div winners + at-large). Voila!

Having 8 best in a division increases chances of having top G5 as champion to hopefully be ranked higher than MW and AAC champion each season.

Add 2 more non-football along with UTA and ALR for 4 geographical divisions of 7 for all other sports to save on travel expenses.

Would need good enough bump in tv revenue to account for lost Pool B money since $12Million is tops for each G5 conference. So $10MM (SunBelt’s Pool B) would have to be made up somehow to make profitable.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 09:49 AM by fresnofanatic.)
10-04-2019 09:40 AM
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USM@FTL Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
7 permanent games versus division mates is too many. 5 is perfect.
10-04-2019 09:52 AM
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fresnofanatic Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
(10-03-2019 10:24 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  A quick look at the C-USA and Sun Belt maps suggests that most of the members could save an incredible amount of money by re-forming into two new conferences with closer geographical ties, much lower travel costs and times, easier ability to watch your teams on nearby fields, more time for fun, etc.

Preamble:

About half of the Sun Belt and C-USA teams fall within the broader footprint of the SEC (extending into Texas) and almost half fall within the footprint of the ACC. The MAC and MWC footprints don't overlap with any of the other G5s. The AAC overlaps most, but is in an ESPN category of its own that could prevent more than 2 or 3 additions to the AAC in the next few years.

Assuming no exchanges with the MWC or MAC, the most obvious options to rearrange the Sunbelt and C-USA might include the following:

Proposal:

I. Merger of the East Divisions of Sun Belt and C-USA into a new Southeastern Coastal Conference (Name to be determined; fostering P5 rivalries with ACC and SEC teams from Virginia, Kentucky, and the Carolinas through Georgia to Florida)

North Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 400-500 MILES

ODU
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Marshall
MTSU LOCATIONS: NC (2), VA (1) , WVa (1), KY (1), TN (1)
WKU


South Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 550-650 MILES

Coastal Carolina
Troy LOCATIONS: SC (1), Alabama (1), Georgia (2), Florida (2)
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
FIU
FAU

Total schools: 12.

Primary advantage: More local rivalries, much lower travel costs & reduced travel time for athletes & fans. 12 schools = ideal conference size.

============================================

II. Merger of the West Divisions of Sun Belt and C-USA into a new G5 South Central Conference (Name to be determined; fostering P5 rivalries with Big-12 and SEC teams from Texas to Alabama).

West Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 550-600 MILES

UTEP
UTSA
Rice
UNT LOCATIONS: Texas (5) & Arkansas (1)
Texas State
Arkansas State

East Division: AVERAGE TRAVEL DISTANCE PERHAPS 300-400 MILES

Louisiana-Monroe
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana Tech
Southern Miss
UAB LOCATIONS: Louisiana (3), South Miss. (1), Alabama (2)
South Alabama

Total schools: 12.

Primary advantage: More local rivalries and much lower travel costs & travel time. 12 schools are better than 10 or 14 team conferences.

========================================================================================

OPTION TO CONSIDER:

OVER-ARCHING TWO CONFERENCE ORGANIZATIONAL SETUP, ENCOMPASSING TWO NEW CONFERENCES FROM THE TEAMS IN THE CURRENT SUN BELT AND C-USA CONFERENCES WITHIN A 24 TEAM MEGA-STRUCTURE WITH 4 ROUND-ROBIN DIVISIONS SET FORTH ABOVE, ROTATING INTER-DIVISIONAL GAMES, PRESERVATION OF SOME RIVALRY GAMES.

CHAMPIONSHIP GAMES FOR THE G5 SOUTH CENTRAL AND G5 COASTAL -CONFERENCES, WHICH WOULD FUNCTION AS QUASI-INDEPENDENT CONFERENCES LINKED ONLY BY A COMMON ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE, WHICH WOULD NEGOTIATE MEDIA CONTRACTS, BOWL AGREEMENTS, ETC.

Advantages:

Travel costs and travel time would be cut substantially with streamlined divisional systems, as above.

New organizational structure would be in a much more powerful position to negotiate media contracts, bowl agreements, etc., and costs on salaries to conference executive staffs could be cut by 25%. Result, more money to the conference members and a more efficient organizational setup.

The over-arching organizational structure would also have more power in dealing with State governments, airlines, etc.

(10-03-2019 10:38 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  You need an ok for a 4-team playoff before it's feasible.

Marshall - this would be a really strong division.
WKU
MTSU
ODU
Charlotte
Appy State

Coastal Carolina - this division would be your 'Sunbelt' division. You're keeping UAB separate.
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama
Troy
Ark State

FIU - this would be your SE division. keeping ULaMo separate.
FAU
UAB
USM
La Tech
ULaLa

ULaMo
Rice
UNT
UTSA
UTEP
Texas State

The consolidation and massive voting block is a consideration. We'd have huge market coverage.

(10-04-2019 02:53 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  
(10-03-2019 10:30 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  You're ignoring present politics.

Absolutely - the 4 division model would require sweeping all the present agreements and politics and back-door arrangements, favors, etc. away, and starting from scratch, which is why it may never happen, even if it could cut travel costs something on the order of $20 million per season.

It's simply the model that shortens the travel distances the most - but if travel costs are in the $3-4 million range and could be cut by a million per school per year, that would be the equivalent of getting an extra million per year in the conference media packages.

(10-04-2019 09:52 AM)USM@FTL Wrote:  7 permanent games versus division mates is too many. 5 is perfect.

No matter what there’d be 8 or 9 conference games. Probably have to be 9 with this big of conference. The divisions would change every 2 years to put the 8 best in the Red Div to try and beat out the AAC and MW champs for NY6 Bowl.
(This post was last modified: 10-04-2019 09:56 AM by fresnofanatic.)
10-04-2019 09:56 AM
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panama Online
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Post: #11
Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
So GSU would play in a league with schools in VA but not AL.

Been there done that. Pass.

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10-04-2019 09:57 AM
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indianasniff Offline
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Post: #12
Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
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10-04-2019 11:40 AM
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AuzGrams Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
Not sure what will happen considering politics but both conferences could really be shuffled around for better geographical & rivalry fits.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 06:04 AM by AuzGrams.)
10-06-2019 06:03 AM
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HiddenDragon Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
[Image: 296247.jpg]
10-06-2019 08:47 AM
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TheOriginalBigApp Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
No, you divvy up yours first
10-06-2019 10:22 AM
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CitrusUCF Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
Geographic realignment of the conferences makes sense in light of reduced TV deals and travel costs, but I don't think it's anywhere near happening. There's institutional differences (CUSA focused on large urban institutions etc.), politics, challenges in getting a split (above example has Troy leaving the other Alabama schools!), and competitive advantage concerns (e.g., Southern Miss does not intend to share a conference with ULM).
10-06-2019 02:02 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
I don’t believe you’ll ever see a flat-out merger. I do think you could see 2 or even 3 leagues negotiating a joint media-contract for all content. Or working out a scheduling arrangement to help ensure that travel is kept to a minimum.
10-06-2019 02:26 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
Here we go:

American Athletic Conference
East: Appalachian State, Central Florida, Cincinnati, East Carolina, South Florida, Temple
West: Houston, Memphis, Navy (FB only), SMU, Tulane, Tulsa
NFB: Wichita State

Conference USA
North: Charlotte, Coastal Carolina, Marshall, Middle Tennessee, Old Dominion, Western Kentucky
South: FAU, FIU, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Troy, UAB

Sun Belt Conference
East: Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, South Alabama, Southern Miss
West: New Mexico State, North Texas, Rice, Texas State, UTEP, UTSA
NFB: Little Rock, Texas-Arlington

Now everyone's happy.
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2019 10:10 PM by Nerdlinger.)
10-06-2019 10:09 PM
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MUsince96 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
They aren't going to do anything that decreases CFP money or causes NCAA autobids to go from 2 to 1.
10-07-2019 07:43 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Proposal: merge the teams from C-USA & Sun Belt - divvy them into 4 divisions.
The best you could do is to do one or two swaps.

Texas St to C-USA

WKU or LaTech to Sun Belt
10-07-2019 08:13 AM
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