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Who could replace BW?
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cmett003 Offline
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Post: #1
Who could replace BW?
Lets just assume we are going to finish 2-10 or 1-11 because even tho the defense is ok, the offense is so bad and I dont see it getting any better.

So what P5 coaches are out there that are on the hot seat that need a fresh start or what up and coming FCS coaches are out there? I could also see poaching away a coach from a peer conference. ODU is a good job with the talent in the area, new stadium, good place to live to name a few reasons.

P5s:
Manny Diaz - Miami
Justin Fuentes - VT
Willie Taggert - FSU
Chris Ash - Rutgers (fired)
Lovie Smith - Illinois
Chad Morris - Arkansas
Will Muschamp - South Carolina

BTW - BW was ranked the 103 best coach in FBS (down from 94 the year prior) in the spring. He is not trending the right direction with 1 winning season in 6 FBS years. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-foo...7va92s3q0o
09-30-2019 10:37 AM
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T-Mac Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.
09-30-2019 11:35 AM
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DMC Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
Urban Meyer
09-30-2019 11:36 AM
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Mo Blue Den You Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 11:35 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.

Fuente was the product coach of a NFL QB in a soft AAC. Hes not that good and I wouldnt want him.
09-30-2019 11:44 AM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 11:35 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.

Fuente went 26-23 at Memphis in four seasons (2012-2015). He had two good seasons, 2014 and 2015.
It could (and has) been argued that those two successes were actually the result of previous coach Larry Porter's recruits and that Memphis was already on it's way down when Fuente left for VT.

VT appears to be sliding badly since Fuente's first season two seasons (2016, 2017) with Beamer's players; and last year suffered it's first losing season since 1992.

Fuente's first season 2016, saw VT's lowest ranked recruiting class since 2002.

If reports are true that a number of players conspired to lose the Marshall game so as not to have to go to a bowl, that is sign of a significant disconnect between coach and players.
https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/colle...9b703.html

Additionally, there has been significant attrition.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...n-transfer


Fuente has lost VT.

No thanks.
09-30-2019 12:01 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 12:01 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 11:35 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.

Fuente went 26-23 at Memphis in four seasons (2012-2015). He had two good seasons, 2014 and 2015.
It could (and has) been argued that those two successes were actually the result of previous coach Larry Porter's recruits and that Memphis was already on it's way down when Fuente left for VT.

VT appears to be sliding badly since Fuente's first season two seasons (2016, 2017) with Beamer's players; and last year suffered it's first losing season since 1992.

Fuente's first season 2016, saw VT's lowest ranked recruiting class since 2002.

If reports are true that a number of players conspired to lose the Marshall game so as not to have to go to a bowl, that is sign of a significant disconnect between coach and players.
https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/colle...9b703.html

Additionally, there has been significant attrition.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...n-transfer


Fuente has lost VT.

No thanks.

I'm not advocating for Fuentes but I think it makes a better argument for him that he won later in his last two seasons there and not his first two, in which case we'd be saying that he only won because he had Porter's players.

I also think that while there's the occasional P5 flameout that's better suited for G5, a lot of them are either on the downward slope of their careers or will jump as quickly as humanly possible should they succeed, since they'll already have the experience to build on.

All things being equal, I would vote for a hungry younger coach who's making it work at the FCS level and is ready to make his bones at our level. But my interest in FCS died the moment ODU left it behind (I presume North Dakota State and JMU are still the best teams?) so I don't know who would be the optimal target. But Charlotte seems to be making it work with that guy from Austin Pee.
09-30-2019 12:16 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 12:16 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 12:01 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 11:35 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.

Fuente went 26-23 at Memphis in four seasons (2012-2015). He had two good seasons, 2014 and 2015.
It could (and has) been argued that those two successes were actually the result of previous coach Larry Porter's recruits and that Memphis was already on it's way down when Fuente left for VT.

VT appears to be sliding badly since Fuente's first season two seasons (2016, 2017) with Beamer's players; and last year suffered it's first losing season since 1992.

Fuente's first season 2016, saw VT's lowest ranked recruiting class since 2002.

If reports are true that a number of players conspired to lose the Marshall game so as not to have to go to a bowl, that is sign of a significant disconnect between coach and players.
https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/colle...9b703.html

Additionally, there has been significant attrition.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...n-transfer


Fuente has lost VT.

No thanks.

I'm not advocating for Fuentes but I think it makes a better argument for him that he won later in his last two seasons there and not his first two, in which case we'd be saying that he only won because he had Porter's players.

I also think that while there's the occasional P5 flameout that's better suited for G5, a lot of them are either on the downward slope of their careers or will jump as quickly as humanly possible should they succeed, since they'll already have the experience to build on.

All things being equal, I would vote for a hungry younger coach who's making it work at the FCS level and is ready to make his bones at our level. But my interest in FCS died the moment ODU left it behind (I presume North Dakota State and JMU are still the best teams?) so I don't know who would be the optimal target. But Charlotte seems to be making it work with that guy from Austin Pee.

Porter was only there for two seasons, so Fuente really had the benefit of Porter's players starting in his second two seasons, theoretically peaking in his last two seasons.
A number of VT analysts made that argument as part of their objection to the hiring of Fuente in the first place.
just saying
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 12:47 PM by ODUalum78.)
09-30-2019 12:28 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
Everyone needs to understand that we are going to have provide competitive compensation for competitive coaching.

That said, I am all for giving Blackwell a shot. What he did at ECU was excellent.
What he has done at ODU is nothing short of extraordinary. The question is whether he would be a good head coach?
Who knows, and I mean that literally. There are many HCs at every level, including P5 that shouldn't be HCs and have been abject failures. Even the so-called "experts" have not always been able to accurately assess the candidates.

DB is a hard nosed no nonsense DC. I certainly would not mind that sort of mindset for our program overall.
Being a HC is about hiring the right people to implement your philosophy.
We have been deficient at recruiting since Zohn Burden left.
We need FBS level offensive coaches.

I don't know if Blackwell would be a good HC, probably no one does. However, as I said, there are a bunch of HCs that someone thought would be good that are not, and vice versa.
I do know that getting an established FBS HC to come here would be problematic both from a financial standpoint and the candidate's own perceived career risk.

Many have suggested we find a young up-and-comer. That could be good if we can maintain continuity after that coach's eventual departure due to success.
An older coach might not be so apt to leave a place where he had established himself even with more than a modicum of success.

My personal opinion is not to go the FCS route, but promote an established FBS coordinator.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 12:55 PM by ODUalum78.)
09-30-2019 12:46 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
Make Stinespring the HC. You can make him the CEO of the program, meaning he gives his coordinators the ability to call plays without interference. Keep Blackwell as the DC.
09-30-2019 12:55 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 12:55 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Make Stinespring the HC. You can make him the CEO of the program, meaning he gives his coordinators the ability to call plays without interference. Keep Blackwell as the DC.

Yeah, but I want to keep Blackwell, and that may be the only way.
04-cheers
09-30-2019 12:57 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 12:28 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 12:16 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 12:01 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 11:35 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.

Fuente went 26-23 at Memphis in four seasons (2012-2015). He had two good seasons, 2014 and 2015.
It could (and has) been argued that those two successes were actually the result of previous coach Larry Porter's recruits and that Memphis was already on it's way down when Fuente left for VT.

VT appears to be sliding badly since Fuente's first season two seasons (2016, 2017) with Beamer's players; and last year suffered it's first losing season since 1992.

Fuente's first season 2016, saw VT's lowest ranked recruiting class since 2002.

If reports are true that a number of players conspired to lose the Marshall game so as not to have to go to a bowl, that is sign of a significant disconnect between coach and players.
https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/colle...9b703.html

Additionally, there has been significant attrition.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...n-transfer


Fuente has lost VT.

No thanks.

I'm not advocating for Fuentes but I think it makes a better argument for him that he won later in his last two seasons there and not his first two, in which case we'd be saying that he only won because he had Porter's players.

I also think that while there's the occasional P5 flameout that's better suited for G5, a lot of them are either on the downward slope of their careers or will jump as quickly as humanly possible should they succeed, since they'll already have the experience to build on.

All things being equal, I would vote for a hungry younger coach who's making it work at the FCS level and is ready to make his bones at our level. But my interest in FCS died the moment ODU left it behind (I presume North Dakota State and JMU are still the best teams?) so I don't know who would be the optimal target. But Charlotte seems to be making it work with that guy from Austin Pee.

Porter was only there for two seasons, so Fuente really had the benefit of Porter's players starting in his second two seasons, theoretically peaking in his last two seasons.
A number of VT analysts made that argument as part of their objection to the hiring of Fuente in the first place.
just saying

That's a valid point, but still, if his success was frontloaded, the criticisms would be that he won with someone else's players and that he can't recruit, or at least his early recruiting was not to par. If he didn't succeed until they were mostly if not totally his players, we'd wonder about his adaptability and why it took him so long to get his footing. If he won right away and continued winning, well, we wouldn't even be talking about him unless we were a P5.

That said, it may well be that Fuentes is over his head at VT, or at least in the ACC. Sometimes things just don't work out like they should (Charlie Strong at Texas comes to mind).
09-30-2019 12:57 PM
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RE: Who could replace BW?
Charlie Strong, like Fuente, is just not a good coach. They both caught lightning in a bottle and transitioned that into jobs they were not capable performing. Strong is still bad at USF, btw. Willie Taggert looks like another one that fits into that scenario.
09-30-2019 01:00 PM
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 12:46 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  Everyone needs to understand that we are going to have provide competitive compensation for competitive coaching.

This is something I've always wondered about. Is it settled science that ODU is incapable of paying more for coaches than they do? Because what I see is an FCS assistant coach and a low-major basketball coach, and their starting salaries aren't going to be high unless you're just lavishing money for the sake of appearances. And most of the time, college coaches get raises because a) other schools offered them bigger bucks, or b) they're counteracting the expected interest from other schools. Otherwise, why give someone a huge raise when the circumstances don't require it? If, I dunno, Wake Forest or Rutgers made serious overtures at BW after his 10-win season, he'd be making more than he is now (or he'd be coaching there).

I don't know that I buy that ODU can't pay coaches any more than they're paying BW or JJ, but then I don't know their finances so I could be way off base.
09-30-2019 01:03 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 01:00 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Charlie Strong, like Fuente, is just not a good coach. They both caught lightning in a bottle and transitioned that into jobs they were not capable performing. Strong is still bad at USF, btw. Willie Taggert looks like another one that fits into that scenario.

He took an average AAC/Big East team and turned them into a powerhouse. Maybe Teddy Bridgewater dropped into his lap as a gift from the Franchise Quarterback Fairy, but I think somewhere that coach is still around. It's just not showing up at USF for whatever reason.
09-30-2019 01:09 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 12:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 12:28 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 12:16 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 12:01 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(09-30-2019 11:35 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  I'd love Fuentes. He now has VA ties and his system worked really well at Memphis. I think he'd have an easier time recruiting for his system at our level and in Norfolk...rather than in the ACC and in Blacksburg.

Fuente went 26-23 at Memphis in four seasons (2012-2015). He had two good seasons, 2014 and 2015.
It could (and has) been argued that those two successes were actually the result of previous coach Larry Porter's recruits and that Memphis was already on it's way down when Fuente left for VT.

VT appears to be sliding badly since Fuente's first season two seasons (2016, 2017) with Beamer's players; and last year suffered it's first losing season since 1992.

Fuente's first season 2016, saw VT's lowest ranked recruiting class since 2002.

If reports are true that a number of players conspired to lose the Marshall game so as not to have to go to a bowl, that is sign of a significant disconnect between coach and players.
https://www.newsadvance.com/sports/colle...9b703.html

Additionally, there has been significant attrition.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal...n-transfer


Fuente has lost VT.

No thanks.

I'm not advocating for Fuentes but I think it makes a better argument for him that he won later in his last two seasons there and not his first two, in which case we'd be saying that he only won because he had Porter's players.

I also think that while there's the occasional P5 flameout that's better suited for G5, a lot of them are either on the downward slope of their careers or will jump as quickly as humanly possible should they succeed, since they'll already have the experience to build on.

All things being equal, I would vote for a hungry younger coach who's making it work at the FCS level and is ready to make his bones at our level. But my interest in FCS died the moment ODU left it behind (I presume North Dakota State and JMU are still the best teams?) so I don't know who would be the optimal target. But Charlotte seems to be making it work with that guy from Austin Pee.

Porter was only there for two seasons, so Fuente really had the benefit of Porter's players starting in his second two seasons, theoretically peaking in his last two seasons.
A number of VT analysts made that argument as part of their objection to the hiring of Fuente in the first place.
just saying

That's a valid point, but still, if his success was frontloaded, the criticisms would be that he won with someone else's players and that he can't recruit, or at least his early recruiting was not to par. If he didn't succeed until they were mostly if not totally his players, we'd wonder about his adaptability and why it took him so long to get his footing. If he won right away and continued winning, well, we wouldn't even be talking about him unless we were a P5.

That said, it may well be that Fuentes is over his head at VT, or at least in the ACC. Sometimes things just don't work out like they should (Charlie Strong at Texas comes to mind).

Yes, those were the criticisms.
Many tech loyalists complained before his hire that he DID win with someone else's players, and indeed Fuente's first recruiting class at VT was the worst since 2002 at 48th in the Nation. His first two classes at Memphis dropped around 20 points from the 70s to the 90s as well.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 01:54 PM by ODUalum78.)
09-30-2019 01:32 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 01:00 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Charlie Strong, like Fuente, is just not a good coach. They both caught lightning in a bottle and transitioned that into jobs they were not capable performing. Strong is still bad at USF, btw. Willie Taggert looks like another one that fits into that scenario.

Yep
Strong a nice guy, but is disorganized and not by any means a disciplinarian.
What's even worse is that Taggart left him some good players. The cupboard was by no means bare.
09-30-2019 01:53 PM
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RE: Who could replace BW?
If Charlie Strong is available and ODU is in the market, I'd at least kick the tires. If nothing else, he can recruit QBs (Teddy Bridgewater and I assume he at least helped lay the foundation on Lamar Jackson's recruiting). Plus if money is in fact an issue, USF will be paying part of the freight with his buyout.

Fuentes may be everything everyone is saying and his level might end up being Elon or something, but I remember an awful lot of enthusiasm about his hiring at VT.
09-30-2019 02:05 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
Does VT even have the money to buy him out?
09-30-2019 02:27 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
(09-30-2019 02:27 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Does VT even have the money to buy him out?

That is an unknown. Beamer's salary, and as far as I know Fuente's as well is paid entirely by the Athletic Foundation. That's why those figures are not even publicly available.
(This post was last modified: 09-30-2019 02:34 PM by ODUalum78.)
09-30-2019 02:33 PM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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RE: Who could replace BW?
Isn't his buyout $14million or so? Whether they have it or not, that's a tough check to write. And it's an ever harder check to explain by Babcock. That's the type of buyout where you might want to reconsider letting Whit hire another coach. Can't have another $10mil+ check to write in two more seasons for another bust.
09-30-2019 02:42 PM
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